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LinkStrikesBack

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,348
This girl needs help - seriously

Even if she comes back, she won't get it. The best that can happen to her is she manages to get back somehow, and then spends the majority of her life in a prison cell.

Actually getting actual mental health help from the NHS is damn near impossible. Took multiple years and self harming to actually get anywhere for me, and even it didn't do much. Maybe they have a faster line for terrorist sympathisers, dunno though.
 

m_dorian

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,403
Athens, Greece
There is no Muslim country that will take in an ISIS member. A better solution is for her to come back to the UK, go through the criminal justice system, and be dealt with appropriately. ISIS created their state across Syria and Iraq. There's no way either of those countries will deal with her with anything resembling a fair justice system (there's already an issue with Iraq trying to summarily execute any Sunni women found with ISIS, even if these women could prove they were there by force).

On top of that, you can not hand wave that child's rights as a British citizen just because you want to punish their mother.

Read my edit with a suggestion.

What about the rights of the father, of its surviving family, whoever this one could be? Don't they have any rights as to the baby's citizenship?
Mother was already done with any british citizenship the moment she went to support UK's enemies, she has no regrets, if the baby can claim a right of British citizenship then it seems to me that this case should be very interesting within legal circles.
 

Mr. Parrot

Member
Apr 16, 2018
92
Allow her back and arrest her for treason and lock her up for life but put her baby up for adoption, it's still (probably) a British citizen and doesn't deserve the life it would get if it wasn't in the UK.
 

Heshinsi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,091
Read my edit with a suggestion.

What about the rights of the father, of its surviving family, whoever this one could be? Don't they have any rights as to the baby's citizenship?
Mother was already done with any british citizenship the moment she went to support UK's enemies, she has no regrets, if the baby can claim a right of British citizenship then it seems to me that this case should be very interesting within legal circles.
The husband was Dutch (and a convert at that, meaning he's also ethnically Dutch). So you'd still be dealing with rights that child has as a British/Dutch baby. The mother could have gone and directly spied for Russia, and you wouldn't be able to just snap your fingers and strip her birthright citizenship. That's not how citizenship works.
 

Sarvijoki

Banned
Jan 6, 2019
234
This level of naivete is how you destroy a society.

She definitely deserves a trial, a Nuremberg trial.
The PM of Norway said it best after the terror attack there: "We don't need less democracy, we need more democracy".

Tons of people were angry that Anders Breivik was given a fair trial and that he is currently serving a life sentance in a prison that, compared to US prisons, is luxurious. People from outside Norway even rediculed Norway for not using the death penalty.

The Norweigan response showed how strong their legal and democratic institutions were. Our response will do the same.
 

m_dorian

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,403
Athens, Greece
The husband was Dutch (and a convert at that, meaning he's also ethnically Dutch). That's not how citizenship works. The mother could have gone and directly spied for Russia, and you wouldn't be able to just snap your fingers and strip her birthright citizenship.

Oh, I am sure where there is a will there is a way.

Still you do not offer any ideas about the issue.
 

Powdered Egg

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
17,070
Do ISIS allow women to get their hands dirty or are they just there to be brides? If she didn't do dirt herself, I'm leaning towards a psychiatric solution if possible. Send her to mandatory in-house therapy and let relatives raise the kid.
 

Matrix XII

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,313
This girl still doesn't get it.

You are a traitor to your country. If you are let back in, have fun in prison!
 

Heshinsi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,091
Oh, I am sure where there is a will there is a way.

Still you do not offer any ideas about the issue.
There's is no other idea than bringing her back. We might as well stop pretending we believe in democratic ideals and a fair criminal justice system otherwise. She's not Malta's problem, and she's not the problem of any Muslim country. She's a UK citizen, accused of breaking UK laws, and therefore should be brought back to verify and face those those charges at home. The minute you start picking and choosing when and where you want to apply laws, you open up a Pandora's box of fuckery where states would use this as precedent to go after other people they want to deal with in a similar fashion.

The notion where states can just strip brithright citizenships for any crime is insane. If a person can be a prolific serial killer and not lose their citizenship at home, and another can actively work with a foreign power to spy on their own country and they still don't lose their citizenship, then there's no way a teenager can be stripped of her citizenship because she joined ISIS.
 

Deleted member 9305

Oct 26, 2017
4,064
"Speaking from a refugee camp in Syria, she said she was nine months pregnant and wanted to come home for her baby."

She left for the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria, that's her home now.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,255
No regrets that the terrorist state she fled to didn't have enough resources to keep 2 children alive. But it's totally normal there they get a bad Rap.
 

DavidDesu

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
5,718
Glasgow, Scotland
Nah. Even if she was a child and groomed into this stuff she got too far in and I simply don't trust her. There's crime and then there's joining a brutal terrorist organisation that calls for death to entire western civilisation (and more). Nope.
 

Richter1887

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
39,146
She made her choice and the choice was a bad one. Can't feel sorry for her.
The fact she is an adult and says no regret means it is useless to bring her back. Unless she was forced into saying that to avoid being killed (This is a stretch).

I hope her child makes it out okay and escapes the radicalization of ISIS.

Edit: Is she returning the only way to legally save the child?
 
Last edited:

stupei

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,801
Do you people also drink blood for breakfast? Jesus... sometimes I really need to convince myself this is still a liberal board. Though sometimes it's hard to notice inbetween the revenge-fueled bloodlust.

She was astupid child when she made that decision and is still a stupid although brainwashed child

It's not revenge to work counter to what someone says they still wish to do now. She's not describing how she felt in the past; she still supports the ideals of the enemies of the country she wishes to enter. She is still a traitor. People aren't reacting to the person she was, we're reacting to who she still is. You cannot describe that as revenge-fueled bloodlust. It's common sense and basic safety.
 

LastCaress

Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
1,681
She is a UK citizen, therefore she is a UK problem. They have the resources to take care of this, locals in Syria don't.

I agree with this with an exception for people that have deserted for a foreign military entity. Still, I guess she's entitled to a trial to determine that.
 

Tya

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,656
No i am not doing anything to anyone.

I am offering a better proposal than, "do not let her in" and stuff. It is not an "i am so sorry i did those things" case, she committed treason and she does not regret her actions yet the UK should deal with her case firm and fair. Help her settle in a place she could be better accepted but punish her for her actions to set an example. The child should be happy to be raised as what the mother wants and if brought up within a civil and good society then that will work well for both.
What do you think it'll happen to her if she is allowed to return to Britain?

This is such a dumb post. The UK can't just send ISIS members to "muslim countries." What are you even thinking? Why would they want her?
 

m_dorian

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,403
Athens, Greece
There's is no other idea than bringing her back. We might as well stop pretending we believe in democratic ideals and a fair criminal justice system otherwise. She's not Malta's problem, and she's not the problem of any Muslim country. She's a UK citizen, accused of breaking UK laws, and therefore should be brought back to verify and face those those charges at home. The minute you start picking and choosing when and where you want to apply laws, you open up a Pandora's box of fuckery where states would use this as precedent to go after other people they want to deal with in a similar fashion.

The notion where states can just strip brithright citizenships for any crime is insane. If a person can be a prolific serial killer and not lose their citizenship at home, and another can actively work with a foreign power to spy on their own country and they still don't lose their citizenship, then there's no way a teenager can be stripped of her citizenship because she joined ISIS.

Ok, so let her return and face justice thus potentialy separating her from her child and sent her behind bars, maybe forever.
Plus, the UK will have accepted back on their soil an ISIS heroine, where against the odds, escaped from her country and joined them to support their demented ideals. The trial and everything that comes along will make her an example of ISIS "courage".

The crime she committed is not just any crime, disavowing your country, effectively choosing another country over the one you were born is not shoplifting, it is a strong statement saying "You bunch of idiots, i do not want to be a part of you anymore.". It is not more like stripping birthright citizenship but more like following the wishes of her to change citizenship.
Also do not use espionage acts in this case. Philby's circle wanted a socialist/communist England not to become Russians. She wanted to become ISIS and stop being British. Serial Killers do not want to join the enemy and fight their country there is no cause for nationality change.
She's not a teenager anymore and she shows absolutely no remorse about her actions. If she would have then this would have been a very different discussion entirely.

I can understand what you say about democratic ideals, although the current British affairs show some lack of them, and i can really get behind them and i know that she is not any other country's problem but there are so many more ways to peel an egg that to hit it with a hammer.
Choosing a host friendly country for her and her child to live, not left with out monitoring and have her live in a far more peaceful environment is a subtle, humaine and wiser approach to the issue, it does not separate the family and everyone is happy.
 

m_dorian

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,403
Athens, Greece
This is such a dumb post. The UK can't just send ISIS members to "muslim countries." What are you even thinking? Why would they want her?

I really do not like your tone and the fact that you do not follow the discussion. I have not being impolite to anyone although i too disagree with people from time to time. Dont be a dick.
 

LinkStrikesBack

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,348
I really do not like your tone and the fact that you do not follow the discussion. I have not being impolite to anyone although i too disagree with people from time to time. Dont be a dick.

There isn't much of a discussion to be had. She is a British citizen, that's a fact, you can't unload British terrorists on other countries because they're Muslim and so she claims to be.

If she manages to get her worthless ass back here (and I'm fine with the idea that she should receive absolutely no assistance from the UK to do so), she can do so and end up in jail forevermore, if she fails in the attempt and Isis catch her trying to desert, she gets to serve as a example why not to go join a terrorist group then.
 

Heshinsi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,091
Ok, so let her return and face justice thus potentialy separating her from her child and sent her behind bars, maybe forever.
Plus, the UK will have accepted back on their soil an ISIS heroine, where against the odds, escaped from her country and joined them to support their demented ideals. The trial and everything that comes along will make her an example of ISIS "courage".

The crime she committed is not just any crime, disavowing your country, effectively choosing another country over the one you were born is not shoplifting, it is a strong statement saying "You bunch of idiots, i do not want to be a part of you anymore.". It is not more like stripping birthright citizenship but more like following the wishes of her to change citizenship.
Also do not use espionage acts in this case. Philby's circle wanted a socialist/communist England not to become Russians. She wanted to become ISIS and stop being British. Serial Killers do not want to join the enemy and fight their country there is no cause for nationality change.
She's not a teenager anymore and she shows absolutely no remorse about her actions. If she would have then this would have been a very different discussion entirely.

I can understand what you say about democratic ideals, although the current British affairs show some lack of them, and i can really get behind them and i know that she is not any other country's problem but there are so many more ways to peel an egg that to hit it with a hammer.
Choosing a host friendly country for her and her child to live, not left with out monitoring and have her live in a far more peaceful environment is a subtle, humaine and wiser approach to the issue, it does not separate the family and everyone is happy.
First of all there's no such thing as an ISIS country. She joined what is essentially a terrorist group. She can make all the renunciations she wants, but unless she's a dual citizen, you can't legally make her stateless. You're so fixated on the damage done by separating her from the baby, but what exactly do you think happens to her in this hypothetical other country you want to deport her to? You think any country will allow an ISIS member to just live free in their country? Where is this country you think that exists that would take a British citizen that the UK doesn't want and just let them loose?

You send her to the two states where ISIS operated and she's executed in a sham court, so baby is still separated from her. And you can't just pay off a corrupt government in a developing country to take her. You keep saying stuff like "peaceful environment" and "a place more accepting", but what does that even mean? Are you emplying that there are countries where ISIS members would be taken in and they would fit right in with society just like that? What countries would those be?
 

Vonnegut

Banned
May 27, 2018
1,082
She was groomed and brainwashed as a 15 year old teenager. Sounds like she'll need some psychiatric assessment and therapy to undo the brainwashing. I'm not supportive of those saying to throw her into prison as it's not clear whether she was anything more than the victim of an international grooming scheme. What's most problematic is that she seems divorced from reality at the moment.

Is it worth the country's time and resources to rehabilitate this person?

She expresses no regret for leaving her country to provide aid and comfort to a terrorist group.

What value is there in rehabilitating her?
 

nekkid

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
21,823
Use her for intel, lock her up for life, and give the kid to a family who gives a shit.

But not at the expense of anyone else's safety.
 

MrCibb

Member
Dec 12, 2018
5,349
UK
If she wants to come back, she will need to stand trial for joining and aiding a terrorist organization. It's that simple, really.
 
Sep 28, 2018
1,073
She's basically a child, she doesn't regret it because she's young and been brainwashed into thinking this is what God wants. Bring her back, allow good, modern and moderate British Muslim to reeducate her and she will see the error of her ways.
 

Deleted member 8561

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
11,284
Really making a compelling case of coming back to the UK

She was, what, 15 when she joined ISIS? She says she has zero regrets.

Ya'll pulling the "she was just a child" card on someone who went to fucking Syria as a "child" and made very clear life choices.

Play stupid games win stupid prizes
 

S I C K O

Alt Account
Banned
Dec 4, 2018
1,017
Swap the sex and this becomes a non story. I remember a guy wanting to come home and the majority were laughing about him publically.

I don't feel bad for anyone who went to ISIS. Stay there.
 
Oct 30, 2017
762
Imagine if instead of ISIS she joined a local gang that behaved similar to how the Mexican cartel behave. You don't think if they caught her at 19 as an unrepentant member of said gang that she wouldn't be facing jail time?

If she was recruited as a minor then I would support rehabilitative measures not throwing her in prison.

People saw ISIS' message of wanting to destabilise countries, kill infidels, Shittes, LGBTQ members, enslaving women, and went, "yeah sign me up for that". On top of that, she is showing zero repentance and regret.



Nah, she's the UK's problem. Don't put this nonsense on North Africa.

That's where you're wrong. Me & you see that, as it's clear as day to us. But these kids bought into the propaganda and believed everything in the news was a lie. They were probably advertised an opportunity to live somewhere and feel like you're part of some great revolution or some shit etc... You get the point.

At any rate, it's clear she needs significant rehabilitation and her child should definitely be taken from her and given to a well-adjusted family.
 

Tya

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,656
I really do not like your tone and the fact that you do not follow the discussion. I have not being impolite to anyone although i too disagree with people from time to time. Dont be a dick.

In every post you are making, you are equating "muslim countries" to ISIS. You somehow think some mythical "muslim country" would happily accept someone that is still essentially an ISIS member. You don't see how offensive that is?

Choosing a host friendly country for her and her child to live, not left with out monitoring and have her live in a far more peaceful environment is a subtle, humaine and wiser approach to the issue, it does not separate the family and everyone is happy.

How does someone even respond to something like this?
 
Oct 31, 2017
10,039
I asked this previously, but again, do we believe in justice and the rule of law here? Because those things apply to those who have broken both, no matter how heinous their actions. In fact, that is what gives us a claim to being civilised, unlike ISIS and its vile peers.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,659
Hull, England
My response to her is.

tenor.gif
 
Oct 30, 2017
762
Is it worth the country's time and resources to rehabilitate this person?

She expresses no regret for leaving her country to provide aid and comfort to a terrorist group.

What value is there in rehabilitating her?

She's British, therefore our problem. We can't hand her over to another government because no one will take her. Therefore rehabilitation seems like the best course of action.
 

Heshinsi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,091
If she was recruited as a minor then I would support rehabilitative measures not throwing her in prison.



That's where you're wrong. Me & you see that, as it's clear as day to us. But these kids bought into the propaganda and believed everything in the news was a lie. They were probably advertised an opportunity to live somewhere and feel like you're part of some great revolution or some shit etc... You get the point.

At any rate, it's clear she needs significant rehabilitation and her child should definitely be taken from her and given to a well-adjusted family.
Everything you mention here are things I can agree with, and of course a path to rehabilitation should be on the table for her. The bigger issue now is that there are people who think a western state should be allowed to revoke brithright citizenships with a snap of finger, and then offload problematic citizens to other countries that they have zero ties to, as if they're similar to the toxic waste material we dump in developing countries because we don't want to deal with our own problems.
 

Sunster

The Fallen
Oct 5, 2018
10,009
Man, listening to her audio interview, she sounds like a sociopath. Didn't care at all seeing beheaded people's heads piled in a bin, only cares that she herself is being put in a bad position now and she wants to go home for the luxuries of better healthcare. Terrible person. She doesn't deserve to come back imo.
*psychopath