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Spartancarver

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,453
Bungie is not incompetent.

Load up the D2 raid, but every time you encounter a bug or glitch that prematurely ends your group's attempt, restart the whole raid. Lemme know when you've finished it.

The raid, AKA the premiere PvE end game activity, is a bug-ridden mess right now. And this is on PC, after it's been out on consoles for months already. I would argue that there's plenty of objective evidence that supports Bungie's incompetence in D2.


You must have missed the dishonest EXP fiasco that literally just happened.
 

MrS

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,085
Bungie is not incompetent.
The day before the launch of Prestige Raid: 'An exploit has been discovered in the Leviathan Raid that causes the encounters to be stripped of their intended challenge. To allow time to fix this issue, we are delaying the start of the Prestige Raid until next week.'

A week later: 'We have been working on a fix, but the short-term solution contains too much risk. The last thing we want to do is fix an exploit some players are using, only to break other parts of the game for everyone. Because of this, we are pushing the fix off to a later date. We don't want to make you wait any longer to experience what the raid team has cooked up for those of you who enjoy a challenge worthy of your talents'.

Is that a good display of their competency?
 
Oct 30, 2017
31
That's precisely what happens in every D2 strike. You've just described the The Inverted Spire and The Pyramidion - fight through waves of enemies until you reach the big Hobgoblin. And if you want to masquerade mechanics as being 'hit these 4 buttons/stand on a vex plate for a certain amount of time', I could easily make the case that those 'mechanics' were in D1 strikes.

The D2 campaign was terrible too. It was the easiest FPS campaign I've ever played. It was insultingly easy and should have had difficulty settings. The final boss is a joke, frankly. Fighting Ghaul was so anticlimactic it was beyond belief. He's not even a threat in the fight. The big bad Bungie hyped up for 6 months turned out to be one of their most uninspired boss fights.

That's more than a wee bit unfair, I'd say.

The mechanics in inverted spire are pretty fresh and new for Destiny. Launch cannons for travel, the drill that you have to dodge while dodging/killing enemies, the multiple collapsing floor levels.

I enjoy that strike a lot, and I am hoping that future strikes will employ more of this thinking. Pyramidion may not have quite as extensive mechanics, but the encounter is super fun and the spinning/rotating light sabres of death that you have to navigate through are a nice touch.

Overall I'd say that D2 strikes outshine D1 strikes when it comes to bits of mechanics flavouring here and there. The vanishing boss in exodus crash is the only part of that strike that I think could be helped along with a tweak, but the encounters up to that point are cool enough.
 
Nov 3, 2017
250
Member was warned for drive by posting
What do you expect from a company that abandoned their loyal fans because they were too good to make anymore halo games only to be bullied by Activision to basically make halo with micro transactions. I think Bungie is just bitter at this point.
 

Chettlar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,604
That's more than a wee bit unfair, I'd say.

The mechanics in inverted spire are pretty fresh and new for Destiny. Launch cannons for travel, the drill that you have to dodge while dodging/killing enemies, the multiple collapsing floor levels.

I enjoy that strike a lot, and I am hoping that future strikes will employ more of this thinking. Pyramidion may not have quite as extensive mechanics, but the encounter is super fun and the spinning/rotating light sabres of death that you have to navigate through are a nice touch.

Overall I'd say that D2 strikes outshine D1 strikes when it comes to bits of mechanics flavouring here and there. The vanishing boss in exodus crash is the only part of that strike that I think could be helped along with a tweak, but the encounters up to that point are cool enough.

Man I have to point out that the drills are such a missed opportunity. You don't even have to dodge them. At all. They're just for show.
 
Oct 30, 2017
31
What do you expect from a company that abandoned their loyal fans because they were too good to make anymore halo games only to be bullied by Activision to basically make halo with micro transactions. I think Bungie is just bitter at this point.

Businesses don't operate based on the cause/effect of their "loyal fans". It's all very nice for people to feel a connection to a game studio, but they must do what they need to in order to be viable businesses. They have employees and responsibilities that go well beyond 'fan service'.

I don't know what you do for a living, but I presume that you shape your career based on your own needs. If you leave a particular job for another, do you feel that you've betrayed your former employer with your disloyalty?
 

Deleted member 21186

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
55
What do you expect from a company that abandoned their loyal fans because they were too good to make anymore halo games only to be bullied by Activision to basically make halo with micro transactions. I think Bungie is just bitter at this point.

I was hoping to come to ERA to get away from this shit.

I don't know if Bungie are incompetent or just trying to handle a massively complex game that has so many different variables that it exposes them to more issues than most other games?
 

pants

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
3,182
That's precisely what happens in every D2 strike. You've just described The Inverted Spire and The Pyramidion - fight through waves of enemies until you reach the big Hobgoblin. And if you want to masquerade mechanics as being 'hit these 4 buttons/stand on a vex plate for a certain amount of time', I could easily make the case that those 'mechanics' were in D1 strikes.

The D2 campaign was terrible too. It was the easiest FPS campaign I've ever played. It was insultingly easy and should have had difficulty settings. The final boss is a joke, frankly. Fighting Ghaul was so anticlimactic it was beyond belief. He's not even a threat in the fight. The big bad Bungie hyped up for 6 months turned out to be one of their most uninspired boss fights.

1. The Inverted Spire's boss has three different phases, each with its own strategy and arena, culminating with his weakpoint (optionally?) exploding and triggering a soft enrage of sorts; The Pyramidion's boss goes through periods of vulnerability where your team is responsible for breaking his barrier, and also culminating with an (optional?) soft enrage where he frenzies around the battlefield.

This is also to say nothing of the dynamic obstacles and navigational hazards you encounter moving through each strike.

I'm not calling either of them the best boss fight of the year, but these "phases" demand different strategies, interactions, and in many ways dynamically change the playspace. They are inarguable improvements on vanilla D1's strikes.

2. I agree with you that, difficulty wise, D2's campaign was too easy and needed a lot more dynamic difficulty.

However Ghaul was a unique enemy with unique attacks and the player knew who he was and had a properly understood reason of why he needed to die; the big Vex in the Black Garden had none of those. I'd also consider the mission he was attached to awesome, storming the Last City alongside other Guardians and the string section was a significant improvement over The Black Garden.

Again - to me this is a clear and definite improvement, though I'm not saying its beyond criticism.
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184
I'm relieved to know that any mistake == incompetency.
Theres making mistakes. And then theres repeating mistakes in addition to making new ones. Repeating mistakes from 3 years ago that were already fixed and dealt with = incompetency. Or apathy. Its 100% one or the other and I genuinely am not sure which it is. If I had to guess its incompetency coming from management and the oversight seeing how things keep having the be rebooted and retooled a year before launch.
 

KeRaSh

I left my heart on Atropos
Member
Oct 26, 2017
10,254
I still feel like Bungie has a winning formula on their hands that is ruined by forcing the ideals of a few people at the top of their development hierarchy down the community's throats.

Luke Smith and Noseworthy should suck it up and for once listen to the community before it's too late.
I respect that they are keeping true to what they believe would be the best for the game but there's a point where you have to take your fingers out of your ears and maybe try something different. This is clearly not working.
 

pants

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
3,182
Just an aside, calling any developer "incompetent" is just straight up toxic and we should all aspire to be better than that.
 

-PXG-

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,186
NJ
Just an aside, calling any developer "incompetent" is just straight up toxic and we should all aspire to be better than that.

A developer that doesn't communicate short and long term goals, lacks transparency, allows game breaking bugs to persist for extended lengths of time and flat out ignores long standing feedback, is, in fact, incompetent.

The word "toxic" is total bullshit and is a means to deflect legitimate criticism. I can only be so cordial and friendly after spending money on something that doesn't live up to expectations.

At some point you gotta look someone in the eye and say, "Look motherfucker, you have to fix this". That's where we're at now.
 

Lord Brady

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
8,392
The strikes are better than anything D1 had to offer. Maybe except Exodus Crash's last boss.
Meh, I'll take the D1 strikes. Pretty much every strike in D2 uses the same mechanic - Boss appears, you hit boss a lot, boss either hides or is shielded, boss re-appears, you hit boss a lot more while tons of weak enemies flood the room, boss hides or is shielded again, lots of enemies flood room again, boss returns, you shoot a lot more until boss is dead. That's an OK mechanic for a strike, but it's tiresome when pretty much every available strike uses it.
 

Chronos

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,204
I don't agree with this. Seperating then would make a big difference. Auto Rifles, after the big nerf they did to them due to PVP were relegated to not being used in PVE anymore because it was so potent in PVP.

Vex Mythoclast a weapon you could only get from beating the hard Raid, was nerfed to the ground cause of Crucible.

Truth, a rocket launcher that wasn't used that much in PVE but it's strength was it's insane tracking and it held 3 rockets was nerfed cause of Crucible.

The whole bladedancer class was also nerfed because of how good it was in Crucible. It already wasn't that great for end game content (aside from invis)but that made it even worse.

All Hand Cannons had their accuracy, range and efffectiveness nerfed because 3 exotic hand cannons were dominating Crucible. As someone who doesn't care about Crucible, Bungie needs to separate the two cause when they nerf something in the game, it almost always hurts PVE players.

As long as they were problems in Crucible, Bungie nerfed them to balance it but never considered the effect they would have on PVE and they kept doing this through out the lifespan of Destiny.

Great post. Nearly every balance change was done for the sake of PvP at the expense of PvE. I think the Shotgun buff was the only exception.

It really sucks that they are so stubborn about this and its impact to PvE.
 

TheAquaticApe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,068
A developer that doesn't communicate short and long term goals, lacks transparency, allows game breaking bugs to persist for extended lengths of time and flat out ignores long standing feedback, is, in fact, incompetent.

The word "toxic" is total bullshit and is a means to deflect legitimate criticism. I can only be so cordial and friendly after spending money on something that doesn't live up to expectations.

At some point you gotta look someone in the eye and say, "Look motherfucker, you have to fix this". That's where we're at now.

Bungie doesn't owe anyone anything. They don't have to tell us any of their ideas or plans for Destiny. That's absurd. Yes, it's nice to have open communication, but I have no idea where the expectation comes from.

A game breaking bug means you cannot play the game. Yes, the Leviathan raid has bugs, but you can still complete it no matter how frustrating.

Bungie did not force your hand in buying Destiny. If you feel that upset about the game, then do not give them anymore money or time. Don't pre-order and wait until reviews come out instead.
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184
Meh, I'll take the D1 strikes. Pretty much every strike in D2 uses the same mechanic - Boss appears, you hit boss a lot, boss either hides or is shielded, boss re-appears, you hit boss a lot more while tons of weak enemies flood the room, boss hides or is shielded again, lots of enemies flood room again, boss returns, you shoot a lot more until boss is dead. That's an OK mechanic for a strike, but it's tiresome when pretty much every available strike uses it.
I feel like you and I are the same exact destiny players haha. D1 > Strikes were a lot better for me. I played each D2 strike maybe once and never wanted to do them again. One of my biggest hopes for strikes in the sequel was to flesh out the structure of the mission and boss design. But its still the same thing that ends with a bullet spnge boss that mostly stands there shooting at you.
Great post. Nearly every balance change was done for the sake of PvP at the expense of PvE. I think the Shotgun buff was the only exception.

It really sucks that they are so stubborn about this and its impact to PvE.
Agreed. It would be great to get them to finally balance each separately. (Nice avy btw)

Bungie doesn't owe anyone anything. They don't have to tell us any of their ideas or plans for Destiny. That's absurd. Yes, it's nice to have open communication, but I have no idea where the expectation comes from.

A game breaking bug means you cannot play the game. Yes, the Leviathan raid has bugs, but you can still complete it no matter how frustrating.

Bungie did not force your hand in buying Destiny. If you feel that upset about the game, then do not give them anymore money or time. Don't pre-order and wait until reviews come out instead.
They might not have to, but its pretty shitty to ignore bugs that can create a frustrating experience for its users in an already frustrating raid and then choose to not even acknowledge the problem. Hell, this goes for pretty much all the raids in this franchise. If something was broken that helped players in the raid, it was nerfed or fixed immediately. If it hindered their progress, they usually left it as is. When they rereleased the raids the teleport glitch in VoG was STILL broken from 3 years earlier. They don't HAVE to fix their game. But good devs do. Being frustrated about it doesn't mean people want to take their money elsewhere. We all want destiny to succeed and be the game it always had the potential to be.
 
Oct 26, 2017
10,499
UK
Just an aside, calling any developer "incompetent" is just straight up toxic and we should all aspire to be better than that.

I'd consider lying to your players about XP gain when it's related to micro-transactions to be pretty toxic.

The worst thing about PVP/PVE balance is that it doesn't even work for PVP given how boring they've made it.
 

Lee

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11
Don't pre-order and wait until reviews come out instead.

But if I did that I wouldn't have my Coldheart...
377106713041698816.png
 
Nov 1, 2017
2,904
You seem to be the odd one out here though. Even Reddit is just posting things about how they hope the blog post is good/helpful. Not calling Bungie names. Etc.
A company that does things like let problems in the community boil over to a point where they need to cancel marketing events or lie about XP gain is incompetent to me. This is not actually controversial or odd.
 

Van Bur3n

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
26,089
lmao @ people thinking "Bungo" is like hate speech or something, some of you need to step away from Destiny discussion before you have a video game-related physical trauma like Hawkian

Bungo has been their nickname since Halo. Folks need to get that pole out of their bungo and have a little fun. I'm sure Bungie's feelings aren't hurt.

But that said, we live in a world where Bungie spent three years on Destiny 1. Three years worth of learning experience on how to handle the game. Three years of understanding what works and what doesn't. And despite all of this, Destiny 2 ended up in the state it is in.

Nah, I think I'll call Bungo incompetent. A bit scummy even. It's breaks my wee little heart to have to say that about Bungo (/s), and I absolutely want Destiny to be the good game that it can be because I'm trying to enjoy it. But Bungo just can't stop screwing up. I can only withstand so many screw ups before I toss it out the window, and I'm getting to that point. I'm especially likely to do it quicker when they're also a shady pack of rats. Shit, I already don't see myself getting their garbo "expansions" for the game.

I truly hope they have something worth saying that properly addresses the issues of the game and detail their plans on how they can better it. Hopefully without the meaningless buzzwords and phrases.
 

Luchashaq

Banned
Nov 4, 2017
4,329
Just an aside, calling any developer "incompetent" is just straight up toxic and we should all aspire to be better than that.

Calling shit results what they are isn't toxic just because toxic is the new term to use for any negative comment you don't like.

Toxic = the Twitter psycho's screaming at Bungie employees about how shit their game is all day.
 
Oct 30, 2017
31
One person's feelings are not important when there is clearly a community-wide problem that Bungie cancelled a stream to address. Is this somehow hard to understand?

The "community" is not several hundred whining online posters and streamers. The majority of "the community" does not post online, at all. You have NO idea how they feel about the game.

The idea that there is this massive "community wide" problem is in your head. Yes, there are a bunch of vocal people online screaming at Bungie, and it's for this vocal "online" crowd that Bungie is making this change in today's stream plans. The people playing D2 that don't bother with reddit and other online messaging forums are not represented.

That, is my one and only point. Using the term "community" as some implied majority representation is presumptive and arrogant.
 
Nov 1, 2017
2,904
The "community" is not several hundred whining online posters and streamers. The majority of "the community" does not post online, at all. You have NO idea how they feel about the game.

The idea that there is this massive "community wide" problem is in your head. Yes, there are a bunch of vocal people online screaming at Bungie, and it's for this vocal "online" crowd that Bungie is making this change in today's stream plans. The people playing D2 that don't bother with reddit and other online messaging forums are not represented.

That, is my one and only point. Using the term "community" as some implied majority representation is presumptive and arrogant.
So your argument is that because this invisible, silent majority exists and isn't saying anything that means there isn't actually a problem? Okay, sure, that's one way of looking at it. I'm sure you won't be shocked to know that I don't agree with that assessment.
 

-PXG-

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,186
NJ
Bungie doesn't owe anyone anything. They don't have to tell us any of their ideas or plans for Destiny. That's absurd. Yes, it's nice to have open communication, but I have no idea where the expectation comes from.

A game breaking bug means you cannot play the game. Yes, the Leviathan raid has bugs, but you can still complete it no matter how frustrating.

Bungie did not force your hand in buying Destiny. If you feel that upset about the game, then do not give them anymore money or time. Don't pre-order and wait until reviews come out instead.

Asking them to fix bugs and to give us a general roadmap for new content, features and improvements to QoL is asking too much? Apparently that's absurd? I shouldn't hold them accountable or hold them to any standards?

What the hell am I reading? Maybe I'm mad because the game has amazing potential. I'm just sick and tired of being promised potential and nothing else. They have made far too much money and have far too many talented hands on deck to just drag their feet and pretend like what they're doing is good enough.

Without us, the players and the community, they're nothing. They exist because of us. We're willing to spend our money and time playing their game. Talking about it. Sharing it. I just want incentive. I want depth. A reason to come back every day and every week. Goals to work towards. A real sense of accomplishment. I want to tell stories about my adventures and memories with others. A game this large, with so much behind it shouldn't be some throwaway, meaningless time sink or a glorified mobile game. Bungie and Destiny are better than that. There's simply no excuse.
 
Oct 30, 2017
31
So your argument is that because this invisible, silent majority exists and isn't saying anything that means there isn't actually a problem? Okay, sure, that's one way of looking at it. I'm sure you won't be shocked to know that I don't agree with that assessment.

Nope. I didn't say anything even remotely approaching that. Here's a good idea: respond to my post, not what you THINK my post is.

I don't know what the silent majority thinks. They might very well be thinking the same thing as the vocal minority.

My point is: you don't know, I don't know. Stop assuming you do and calling it "the community", with the implied meaning that it's some kind of majority.

Separately, do I think there should be changes? Yes, sure I do. I like improvements. But I don't pretend to speak for anyone but myself. Try that.
 
Oct 30, 2017
31
Asking them to fix bugs and to give us a general roadmap for new content, features and improvements to QoL is asking too much? Apparently that's absurd? I shouldn't hold them accountable or hold them to any standards?

What the hell am I reading? Maybe I'm mad because the game has amazing potential. I'm just sick and tired of being promised potential and nothing else. They have made far too much money and have far too many talented hands on deck to just drag their feet and pretend like what they're doing is good enough.

Without us, the players and the community, they're nothing. They exist because of us. We're willing to spend our money and time playing their game. Talking about it. Sharing it. I just want incentive. I want depth. A reason to come back every day and every week. Goals to work towards. A real sense of accomplishment. I want to tell stories about my adventures and memories with others. A game this large, with so much behind it shouldn't be some throwaway, meaningless time sink or a glorified mobile game. Bungie and Destiny are better than that. There's simply no excuse.

Missed the season 2 stream, did you?
 
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