Bungie cancelling D2-DLC stream, instead posting blog response to player feedback and future goals

[Liquidsnake]

How can anyone think they don't have an obligation to be open and communicate with us about a game with an ever evolving live eco system, and a 10 year plan is beyond me.

I want answers. I want to know why I have been deceived.Among a dozen other things.

 

[Homicidal Kitten]

I don't agree with this. Seperating then would make a big difference. Auto Rifles, after the big nerf they did to them due to PVP were relegated to not being used in PVE anymore because it was so potent in PVP.

Vex Mythoclast a weapon you could only get from beating the hard Raid, was nerfed to the ground cause of Crucible.

Truth, a rocket launcher that wasn't used that much in PVE but it's strength was it's insane tracking and it held 3 rockets was nerfed cause of Crucible.

The whole bladedancer class was also nerfed because of how good it was in Crucible. It already wasn't that great for end game content (aside from invis)but that made it even worse.

All Hand Cannons had their accuracy, range and efffectiveness nerfed because 3 exotic hand cannons were dominating Crucible. As someone who doesn't care about Crucible, Bungie needs to separate the two cause when they nerf something in the game, it almost always hurts PVE players.

As long as they were problems in Crucible, Bungie nerfed them to balance it but never considered the effect they would have on PVE and they kept doing this through out the lifespan of Destiny.

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I would echo this. In addition to ARs being gutted early on and becoming relatively useless in PVE, the Thorn/Hawkmoon/TLW-inspired hand cannon nerfs seriously killed hand cannon effectiveness in PVE. But more than any specific weapon nerf, the MASSIVE 2.0 perk nerf significantly reduced the overall effectiveness of nearly all weapons in PVE, and appears to have been done, by and large, for PVP balancing. For example, Y3 Fatebringer Adept was a shell of what the OG Fatebringer brought to the table. I still miss my surplus/field scout LDR with six in the mag from year 1 while also giving me four Gally rockets per purple brick.

 

[MrS]

I'm not even arsed about the XP fiasco, I just want a compelling reason to play the game. Give me something to chase. Make Prestige Leviathan not a rewardless piss take. Make strikes good - create a playlist where we can choose modifiers and difficulty level.

 

[replicantUK]

Just an aside, calling any developer "incompetent" is just straight up toxic and we should all aspire to be better than that.

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And lazy...

 

[Spartancarver]

I'm relieved to know that any mistake == incompetency.

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Are we moving the goalposts now or are you trying to argue that the state of their raid is not a valid measure of their competency?

I'm curious now.

Just an aside, calling any developer "incompetent" is just straight up toxic and we should all aspire to be better than that.

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They are objectively incompetent, both in cleaning up game-breaking bugs and in managing the community that keeps their game afloat.

Keep aspiring.

 

[Funny Valentine]

I'm not even arsed about the XP fiasco, I just want a compelling reason to play the game. Give me something to chase. Make Prestige Leviathan not a rewardless piss take. Make strikes good - create a playlist where we can choose modifiers and difficulty level.

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Yeah man I also love playing Leviathan for hours and getting SHADERS as a reward for taking the piss with that trash raid. At least Rabanastre in FFXIV gives me a shot at actual items.

 

[replicantUK]

I'm not even arsed about the XP fiasco, I just want a compelling reason to play the game. Give me something to chase. Make Prestige Leviathan not a rewardless piss take. Make strikes good - create a playlist where we can choose modifiers and difficulty level.

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I'm with you on this one. Similar to D1 I don't really have much of an opportunity to RAID, however with D2 I've never felt the need to run Strikes like I did in the previous games.

 

[Deleted member 29249]

You know they had one of them eververse teaser trailers already made for the stream, wonder if it will see the light of day lol

 

[-PXG-]

This sounds reasonable.



This sounds entitled.

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Uh, okay. It's not, but go ahead and continue thinking that.

Missed the season 2 stream, did you?

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No. But let's not even pretend that everything wrong with the game is going to magically be fixed come December 5th. Some things, yes, like vendors and the excess of legendary shards, will be. But theres still a huge list of stuff that. Progress, but still a long a way to go.

 

[Cornbread78]

Is there like a countdown ticker any anything as to when they are going to drop this info?

 

[Deleted member 13628]

I don't agree with this. Seperating then would make a big difference. Auto Rifles, after the big nerf they did to them due to PVP were relegated to not being used in PVE anymore because it was so potent in PVP.

Vex Mythoclast a weapon you could only get from beating the hard Raid, was nerfed to the ground cause of Crucible.

Truth, a rocket launcher that wasn't used that much in PVE but it's strength was it's insane tracking and it held 3 rockets was nerfed cause of Crucible.

The whole bladedancer class was also nerfed because of how good it was in Crucible. It already wasn't that great for end game content (aside from invis)but that made it even worse.

All Hand Cannons had their accuracy, range and efffectiveness nerfed because 3 exotic hand cannons were dominating Crucible. As someone who doesn't care about Crucible, Bungie needs to separate the two cause when they nerf something in the game, it almost always hurts PVE players.

As long as they were problems in Crucible, Bungie nerfed them to balance it but never considered the effect they would have on PVE and they kept doing this through out the lifespan of Destiny.

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There is no need to separate pve and pvp because there was never any reason to nerf any weapon in the first place. If every weapon and weapon class were kept in their original state, nothing would be overpowered. I remember in the early days being able to dominate even with some random Shingen auto rifle. Vex wouldn't be overpowered when you throw in Suros, Thorn, TLW, or MIDA.

 

[TheTylerDurden]

Uh, okay. It's not, but go ahead and continue thinking that.



No. But let's not even pretend that everything wrong with the game is going to magically be fixed come December 5th. Some things, yes, like vendors and the excess of legendary shards, will be. But theres still a huge list of stuff that. Progress, but still a long a way to go.

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And let's not even pretend that Bungie never tells us any of their plans, ever.

 

[EmptySpace]

Are we moving the goalposts now or are you trying to argue that the state of their raid is not a valid measure of their competency?

I'm curious now.

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The major problems with the game at mostly a product of taking the game in a direction people didn't want and has little to do with their competency as devs. They had ideas that don't jive with community at large. Thats not an issue of competency, if they implement whatever changes they are going to talk about now and those changes c

 

[s3ltz3r]

Bungie is incompetent to have let the community get to this boiling point.

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Nah, Bungie might be incompetent when it comes to executing some plans, but the studio is full of talent.

This is the most frustrating part. It's like Bungie takes any negative criticism very personal, and they just immediately shut down any communication with th community. I think it's part arrogance and part pride.

My biggest gripe with D1 was the abuse of gambling mechanics (we can now see this with the industry's loot box issues). In D2, I am glad they scaled back on the gambling mechanics (somewhat), but it is still an issue. They made strides by removing random roll weapons. However, I was expecting dedicated servers, revamped netcode and better console hit reg for PvP. None of that came to fruition. That was my biggest disappointment. It's like they don't want to raise the bar, they just want a steady stream of revenue, but no passion for it. Big bummer, because the Destiny foundation is super solid, but Bungie just want not willing to or missed on taking the franchise to another level.

 

[Snake Eater]

The controversy surrounding this franchise since its inception has been endlessly more entertaining than the game itself

 

[MrS]

The major problems with the game at mostly a product of taking the game in a direction people didn't want and has little to do with their competency as devs. They had ideas that don't jive with community at large. Thats not an issue of competency, if they implement whatever changes they are going to talk about now and those changes c

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The Legendary Shard situation is an example of incompetency imo. It has way too few uses and was clearly not thought out or executed very well.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Nope. I didn't say anything even remotely approaching that. Here's a good idea: respond to my post, not what you THINK my post is.

I don't know what the silent majority thinks. They might very well be thinking the same thing as the vocal minority.

My point is: you don't know, I don't know. Stop assuming you do and calling it "the community", with the implied meaning that it's some kind of majority.

Separately, do I think there should be changes? Yes, sure I do. I like improvements. But I don't pretend to speak for anyone but myself. Try that.

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I mean, this is semantics at this point. Do we really need to say "The community that posts regularly in online communities such as the official Bungie Forums and other websites such as Resetera"?

 

[SilkySm00th]

I would echo this. In addition to ARs being gutted early on and becoming relatively useless in PVE, the Thorn/Hawkmoon/TLW-inspired hand cannon nerfs seriously killed hand cannon effectiveness in PVE. But more than any specific weapon nerf, the MASSIVE 2.0 perk nerf significantly reduced the overall effectiveness of nearly all weapons in PVE, and appears to have been done, by and large, for PVP balancing. For example, Y3 Fatebringer Adept was a shell of what the OG Fatebringer brought to the table. I still miss my surplus/field scout LDR with six in the mag from year 1 while also giving me four Gally rockets per purple brick.

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This and the post you quoted make me so sad cause i immediately start thinking about a world where Thorn, TLW, Mytho, Gally, Pocket Infinity and Universal Remote - among multiple handfuls of other exotic and legendary guns - still exist. Untainted. Knees intact. Running wild on some huge farm with fresh air in their lungs and wild grass beneath their... hooves... cloven feet? ... Boots? What do guns wear?

I wanna be there. In the magical insane madness where things felt powerful and scary and I was a Space Knight of the highest order. Gods I was a strong BladeDancer, Ned!!

 

[TheTylerDurden]

I mean, this is semantics at this point. Do we really need to say "The community that posts regularly in online communities such as the official Bungie Forums and other websites such as Resetera"?

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You do when you use the word community to imply a majority, yes.

If you want a simpler term "vocal online community" is more precise and honest. Even though it doesn't account for the vocal online people who are in opposition to the negative point of view, it's better than the current usage.

 

[VaporSnake]

Are we moving the goalposts now or are you trying to argue that the state of their raid is not a valid measure of their competency?

I'm curious now.



They are objectively incompetent, both in cleaning up game-breaking bugs and in managing the community that keeps their game afloat.

Keep aspiring.

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Objectively incompetent? Just pathetic man, truly.

 

[Kill3r7]

This and the post you quoted make me so sad cause i immediately start thinking about a world where Thorn, TLW, Mytho, Gally, Pocket Infinity and Universal Remote - among multiple handfuls of other exotic and legendary guns - still exist. Untainted. Knees intact. Running wild on some huge farm with fresh air in their lungs and wild grass beneath their... hooves... cloven feet? ... Boots? What do guns wear?

I wanna be there. In the magical insane madness where things felt powerful and scary and I was a Space Knight of the highest order. Gods I was a strong BladeDancer, Ned!!

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Preach.

 

[hurlex]

Anyone know when the blog post is dropping?

 

[-PXG-]

And let's not even pretend that Bungie never tells us any of their plans, ever.

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They do, but tend to be unnecessarily cryptic and drag things out much longer than they need to be. This isn't anything new. They've been like this for years.

 

[Indy in the Fridge]

They are objectively incompetent, both in cleaning up game-breaking bugs and in managing the community that keeps their game afloat.

Keep aspiring.

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Sorry, but no. I understand the complaints as I have them myself. But, in no way is Bungie an "objectively incompetent" developer. What a ridiculous notion. Just because a developer won't do what you want doesn't make them incompetent. And, what game-breaking bugs are you even referring to? Not in my 100+ hours of playtime did I run into anything resembling a game-breaking bug.

 

[nicoga3000]

Sorry, not sure where else to put this.

But what the fuck is going on? I just watched some recaps and videos regarding the XP stuff. I can only assume that people were rightfully outraged, yes? Because the initial issue was fucked enough, but the "fix" they implemented (which is all but a fix) is just as shady.

Who runs these companies? I mean, they appear to not understand how this shit works. Gamers support GOOD games with FAIR practices - it's not a hard concept to grasp.

 

[pants]

They are objectively incompetent, both in cleaning up game-breaking bugs and in managing the community that keeps their game afloat.

Keep aspiring.

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I've written out a couple different replies, but this might as well be the comment I actually reply to.

"Incompetent" is an insult, especially when leveraged against a studio that made an overwhelmingly good game; and make no mistake, despite obvious issues Destiny 2 is still a good game.

IMO theres something gross and selfish about calling a studio incompetent, a studio full of people working long hours and probably sacrificing aspects of their lives to make cool shit for us. Its more than a little narcissistic and a lot of it stems from entitlement.

This is not a defense of Bungie's mistakes, or the glaring lack of endgame, or whatever else they've gotten wrong. There are things that need fixing.

I just read overwhelmingly cynical, entitled threads like these, here or on the Destiny subreddit, and I don't wonder at all why Bungie, or any developer, has a policy of keeping to themselves.

Saying bullshit like "objectively incompetent" is just straight up toxic, in that its poison to constructive dialogue and discussion... not because I disagree with it. It doesn't add anything.

 

[Kill3r7]

Sorry, not sure where else to put this.

But what the fuck is going on? I just watched some recaps and videos regarding the XP stuff. I can only assume that people were rightfully outraged, yes? Because the initial issue was fucked enough, but the "fix" they implemented (which is all but a fix) is just as shady.

Who runs these companies? I mean, they appear to not understand how this shit works. Gamers support GOOD games with FAIR practices - it's not a hard concept to grasp.

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This is not true no matter how much we want to make it so. We support what we like. To be more correct the mass market supports what it likes. Plenty of unfair or poorly reviewed games sell really well.

 

[TheTylerDurden]

They do, but tend to be unnecessarily cryptic and drag things out much longer than they need to be. This isn't anything new. They've been like this for years.

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I found the S2 update was plenty clear, with very clear dates. Expectations are set. As for being cryptic, there has to be SOME elements of surprise.

If they didn't do streams like these at all, I would be right on board with the point regarding communication. But they DO have these streams. People conveniently forget this stuff to somehow give credence to their points to paint Bungie as some thoughtless, completely uncommunicative gaming studio. It's undeserved.

 

[DodgeAnon]

If it wasn't for this thread I wouldn't have been aware this incompetence and lack of transparency from Bungie had been going on. I only follow the folks from Giant Bomb and Waypoint on twitter for my gaming news and they haven't said a peep about this (as far as I know?)

 

[Virtua]

This game is kind of bombing huh. $25 on Amazon already. Glad people are wising up and demanding more of the game.

 

[nasirum]

If it wasn't for this thread I wouldn't have been aware this incompetence and lack of transparency from Bungie had been going on. I only follow the folks from Giant Bomb and Waypoint on twitter for my gaming news and they haven't said a peep about this (as far as I know?)

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GB had like 20-30 mins of Destiny 2 talk on Giant Bombcast this week.

 

[Border]

When are we expecting this blog post to go live? The livestream would have started by now, I think.

 

[-PXG-]

I've written out a couple different replies, but this might as well be the comment I actually reply to.

"Incompetent" is an insult, especially when leveraged against a studio that made an overwhelmingly good game; and make no mistake, despite obvious issues Destiny 2 is still a good game.

IMO theres something gross and selfish about calling a studio incompetent, a studio full of people working long hours and probably sacrificing aspects of their lives to make cool shit for us. Its more than a little narcissistic and a lot of it stems from entitlement.

This is not a defense of Bungie's mistakes, or the glaring lack of endgame, or whatever else they've gotten wrong. There are things that need fixing.

I just read overwhelmingly cynical, entitled threads like these, here or on the Destiny subreddit, and I don't wonder at all why Bungie, or any developer, has a policy of keeping to themselves.

Saying bullshit like "objectively incompetent" is just straight up toxic, in that its poison to constructive dialogue and discussion... not because I disagree with it. It doesn't add anything.

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"Bungie is fucking retarded. They should all be fired!"

"Bungie has shown a level of incompetence through their lack of communication and poor judgement"

Both aren't the same.

 

[nasirum]

When are we expecting this blog post to go live? The livestream would have started by now, I think.

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Around when they normally post TWAB on Thursdays.

 

[Border]

This game is kind of bombing huh. $25 on Amazon already. Glad people are wising up and demanding more of the game.

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Except for the part where it's already met or exceeded the launch sales of its predecessor, Destiny 2 is totally bombing.

 

[deoee]

Around when they normally post TWAB on Thursdays.

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Meaning...?

 

[Bricktop]

99% in the people in this thread wish they were as "incompetent" as the average Bungie dev. Like seriously, I know you're all pissed off about the game but cut the shit. There's nothing incompetent about anyone at Bungie and even saying as much makes you sound like a fool.

 

[Kill3r7]

GB had like 20-30 mins of Destiny 2 talk on Giant Bombcast this week.

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This has been the case the last few weeks no? I could have sworn they talked about Osiris recently.

 

[Hawky]

Meaning...?

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Afternoon in their timezone where they usually post TWABs at that time

 

[nasirum]

Meaning...?

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Anytime from now to 5pm PST.

 

[RoboPlato]

Meaning...?

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3-5 hours from now

 

[Smokey_Run]

Meaning...?

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Before 8pm ET/5pm PT. That's about as far as it can be narrowed down.

 

[pants]

"Bungie is fucking retarded. They should all be fired!"

"Bungie has shown a level of incompetence through their lack of communication and poor judgement"

Both aren't the same.

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Right, absolutely.

But just calling them incompetent in passing falls somewhere closer to the former example.

Theres a right way to have these conversations, and I'd like to think thats why people came to Resetera to have them.

 

[TheGhost]

Is this being released in the weekly update tomorrow or is it dropping at some point today?

 

[Mammoth Jones]

You do when you use the word community to imply a majority, yes.

If you want a simpler term "vocal online community" is more precise and honest. Even though it doesn't account for the vocal online people who are in opposition to the negative point of view, it's better than the current usage.

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I mean, ok. But now we're debating the correct usage of terms to describe communities instead of the actual issues facing the game itself. Which goes back to why I'm saying it's semantics. The game has issues. Bungie knows it. We know it. No dancing around it. But I understand your point.

 

[DodgeAnon]

GB had like 20-30 mins of Destiny 2 talk on Giant Bombcast this week.

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I don't listen to podcasts, which is why I mentioned twitter. They were all over the recent EA fiasco (and rightfully so) so I would have thought they'd at least mention it on there.

Anyway, not to derail the thread, this news solidifies my decision to hold off on buying D2.

 

[deoee]

Afternoon in their timezone where they usually post TWABs at that time

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Anytime from now to 5pm PST.

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3-5 hours from now

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Before 8pm ET/5pm PT. That's about as far as it can be narrowed down.

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Thank you all!

Still so long to wait, sucks to be EU sometimes :|

 

[TheTylerDurden]

I mean, ok. But now we're debating the correct usage of terms to describe communities instead of the actual issues facing the game itself. Which goes back to why I'm saying it's semantics. The game has issues. Bungie knows it. We know it. No dancing around it. But I understand your point.

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Yeah, I'm not suggesting that there are no issues. Not at all.

Let's just speak for ourselves. Not some fictitious group that we claim to know the feelings of. ;)

 

[Deleted member 13131]

"Bungie is fucking retarded. They should all be fired!"

"Bungie has shown a level of incompetence through their lack of communication and poor judgement"

Both aren't the same.

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You have make mistakes without being incompetent. That term asserts a level of ineptitude that is refuted by what's been happening, and by the content of the game. There are plenty of unforced errors here, particularly in their recent communication and responses to the XP fiasco, but incompetent they are not. Which is actually the most frustrating part of all of this: they are quite capable of doing better and have done better before.

 

[nicoga3000]

This is not true no matter how much we want to make it so. We support what we like. To be more correct the mass market supports what it likes. Plenty of unfair or poorly reviewed games sell really well.

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Even during this "games as a service" shitstorm we're in right now?