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ZeoVGM

Member
Oct 25, 2017
76,099
Providence, RI
www.forbes.com

Bungie’s ‘Destiny 2’ Silence Is Due To ‘Real Threats Towards Our People And Studio’

If you’re a Destiny 2 player, chances are you may have noticed a shift in communication from Bungie, where its employees were normally pretty open about chatting about the game, and we’d get massive, deep-dive TWABs or State of the Game posts.

Responding in a reddit thread about how players missed hearing from Bungie in the subreddit like they used to, community manager DMG explained what exactly was going on, and why this was neither an accident, nor meant to be a punishment.

DMG himself may be the prime example of this, as he's now been on personal leave as he says, in part due to the toll of the very serious harassment he and his family have received simply existing as the game's community manager. A recent Bungie lawsuit cites a toxic player who directly threated DMG personally and said he'd be moving close by to him and he would not "be safe."

Now, Bungie apparently is rethinking communication as a whole because of how unsustainable it became with not just salty players mad about game issues, but actual threats.

This has some very real impacts on the game itself. For instance, now that sandbox lead Kevin Yanes was chased off Twitter by fans angry about a not-returning exotic, that may not translate into us not getting any actual detailed information about arc 3.0 ahead of launch, and like solar 3.0, it may just arrive in the live game.

CZB4fiD.jpg
 

CelestialAtom

Mambo Number PS5
Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,038
People are fucking horrible. There is absolutely no justification for making threats to any game developer for any reason.
 

b-dubs

That's some catch, that catch-22
General Manager
Oct 25, 2017
32,721
Yeah, it feels like there's been a big uptick in people doing horrible stuff to devs and other people being willing to ignore or give cover to that bullshit because they don't like the game or a person on the team or whatever.
 

Deleted member 70788

Jun 2, 2020
9,620
Feels like "fan" communities are the worst across the board.

Yeah, it feels like there's been a big uptick in people doing horrible stuff to devs and other people being willing to ignore or give cover to that bullshit because they don't like the game or a person on the team or whatever.

I feel like this is the natural result of our social media world becoming like it is. We've fostered this kind of response to humanity and created too many positive feedback loops for a subset of the population. It's become dangerous and more obvious in all facets of life.
 

Yerffej

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,496
Keeping a host of children continually happy is an impossibility. Just awful.
 

Absoludacrous

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
3,182
Yeah, it feels like there's been a big uptick in people doing horrible stuff to devs and other people being willing to ignore or give cover to that bullshit because they don't like the game or a person on the team or whatever.

Just wait until this thread fills up with the "Not All Gamers!" crowd.
 

--R

Being sued right now, please help me find a lawyer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,759
These "fans" deserve absolutely nothing. They should sue more people for the threats.
 

Darryl M R

The Spectacular PlayStation-Man
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,721
Good job on Bungie for protecting its people. People making threats should 100% be prosecuted. It has been way past time for the video game industry and its consumers to grow up.
 

Cloud-Hidden

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,987
Feels like "fan" communities are the worst across the board.
As someone who frequents this board (and the one before), depending on the thread, we can be just as bad. Physical threats are obviously not tolerated here, but we sure do love to shit on developers, artists, animators, marketing, or customer support whenever we're not happy. We assume the worst, and project it on to entire teams or companies. We set up straw men and rip them to shreds. And they're here, reading a lot of it. And it sucks.
 

Captain of Outer Space

Come Sale Away With Me
Member
Oct 28, 2017
11,312
The community doesn't deserve communication from the team if they can't stop harassing them and won't treat them with the respect they deserve.
 

finchy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
218
U.K
It feels like its getting worse lately but not sure if thats to do with it being reported more? Either way is fucked up and shouldn't be happening.
 

Deleted member 70788

Jun 2, 2020
9,620
As someone who frequents this board (and the one before), depending on the thread, we can be just as bad. Physical threats are obviously not tolerated here, but we sure do love to shit on developers, artists, animators, marketing, or customer support whenever we're not happy. We assume the worst, and project it on to entire teams or companies. We set up straw men and rip them to shreds. And they're here, reading a lot of it. And it sucks.
Again, dehumanization is rewarded more and more in social digital spheres. It's what's pushed and reinforced, so of course people feed into it.
 

Siinova

Member
Oct 29, 2017
635
Yeah, it feels like there's been a big uptick in people doing horrible stuff to devs and other people being willing to ignore or give cover to that bullshit because they don't like the game or a person on the team or whatever.
It seems like there is a general uptick of awfulness on the internet in general (in that it goes beyond just games) people are starting to act crazy behind their online persona's and I think they can talk to other people however they want. It's getting so bad nowadays and these different online communities really just embolden them.
 

Manu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,120
Buenos Aires, Argentina
Maybe I'm off-base here, but I feel like this is the logical result of stuff like the Snyder Cut or Rise of Skywalker being a result of fan pressure.

Now nerds aren't just entitled, they've been catered to and there's no turning back.
 

Splader

Member
Feb 12, 2018
5,063
What do people think happens when you not only encourage but actively participate in suffocating negativity? Obviously, that doesn't mean you can't criticize something, but being toxic and harmful is something else. It emboldens further toxicity, which goes further and further. A game with millions of players is bound to have some terrible people who take things too far. But more and more I've seen things that we used to call out for being toxic instead lauded.

And yeah, that includes this forum too.
 
OP
OP
ZeoVGM

ZeoVGM

Member
Oct 25, 2017
76,099
Providence, RI
It feels like its getting worse lately but not sure if thats to do with it being reported more? Either way is fucked up and shouldn't be happening.

I think it's happening more. These people feel emboldened because there is rarely any sort of punishment for doing so. There is little to no actual moderation on social media and harassment is allowed to let fly all the time.

Also, because of people like the jackass being replied to in the Reddit thread who is hand-waving harassment with what basically amounts to, "It's only a couple death threats. Deal with it."
 

Persagen

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,585
Feels like "fan" communities are the worst across the board.



I feel like this is the natural result of our social media world becoming like it is. We've fostered this kind of response to humanity and created too many positive feedback loops for a subset of the population. It's become dangerous and more obvious in all facets of life.
Agreed, and there's no putting the genie back in the bottle. Every pathetic shitheel now has immediate access to widespread attention, and will immediately find themselves backed up and echoed by like-minded people. It's sickening to see just how many of these rotten losers there are out there, and it keeps getting worse.
 

2Blackcats

Member
Oct 26, 2017
16,054
As someone who frequents this board (and the one before), depending on the thread, we can be just as bad. Physical threats are obviously not tolerated here, but we sure do love to shit on developers, artists, animators, marketing, or customer support whenever we're not happy. We assume the worst, and project it on to entire teams or companies. We set up straw men and rip them to shreds. And they're here, reading a lot of it. And it sucks.

Totally agree.
 

Splader

Member
Feb 12, 2018
5,063
I think it's happening more. These people feel emboldened because there is rarely any sort of punishment for doing so. There is little to no actual moderation on social media and harassment is allowed to let fly all the time.

Also, because of people like the jackass being replied to in the Reddit thread who is hand-waving harassment with what basically amounts to, "It's only a couple death threats. Deal with it."

They did at least post this after.

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Bigg

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,619
Remember when Andy McNamara told the Battlefield community to chill a little because the devs were on Christmas holiday and the subreddit got so vicious and angry the mods had to temporarily close the subreddit?

I'll never understand why people think that kind of behavior is okay.
 

KamenSenshi

Member
Nov 27, 2017
1,861
I would hope more of the big companies would do this or be more like Nintendo, just make the game that you want to make the way you want to make it and release it when it's time. People are so entitled nowadays and unfortunately songs of those people are not very good or considerate. For the employees own mental health I hope they stick with this change.
 

MrDaravon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,976
As someone who frequents this board (and the one before), depending on the thread, we can be just as bad. Physical threats are obviously not tolerated here, but we sure do love to shit on developers, artists, animators, marketing, or customer support whenever we're not happy. We assume the worst, and project it on to entire teams or companies. We set up straw men and rip them to shreds. And they're here, reading a lot of it. And it sucks.

This.

I see a lot of different posts and commentary online in general like "xyz community is the worst!" but in really for the most part I see the same shit just about everywhere and a lot of handwaving.

Good on Bungie and some other companies for seeming to do the right things when it comes to their staff and standing up against this shit. At this point I pretty much don't want to post or be active online in general with what a cesspool a lot of it is, I can't even imagine what it's like to be on the receiving end like they are.
 

Izanagi89

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,565
Threats against devs are insane but man, going after their families is fucked up. I can't imagine how shit scared they must be when those threats are made against them….I will never, ever get this kind of behavior. These people need to be locked up
 
Oct 25, 2019
589
Good for Bungie and more developers should follow Bungie's lead and get off line when it comes to their work.

Such a shame it had to even come to this though.
 

Cloud-Hidden

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,987
Again, dehumanization is rewarded more and more in social digital spheres. It's what's pushed and reinforced, so of course people feed into it.
It's a huge problem.
Players being shitty also obviously impacts other players in a direct way. I work for a gaming company and we had a summit recently where player safety was a huge topic for all of our groups, and more than once, at certain moments, we'd look at each other near despair, throw up our hands, and say something like "We're really trying to figure out how to make people not act like assholes on the internet, and that's hard."

I feel like we're working against what's basically a negative reaction economy, which is reinforced by popular streamers and viral clips. The screams, the shutdowns, the shit-talking... that's unfortunately what's driven a lot of our attention economy in this space in recent years. And we're paying for it.
 

deftech

Member
Oct 29, 2017
386
It's just a game, leave the devs alone. Don't like what they're doing? Play something else. Easy.
 

Renna Hazel

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,557
I really wish death threats and the like were taken seriously by law enforcement. I hope these people face criminal charges because it will only get worse and worse unless people have to take responsibility for their actions. I'm sure many would respond by saying "it's just a joke" but this is so tiring.
 

Nagito

Member
Oct 25, 2017
963
The windy city
As someone who frequents this board (and the one before), depending on the thread, we can be just as bad. Physical threats are obviously not tolerated here, but we sure do love to shit on developers, artists, animators, marketing, or customer support whenever we're not happy. We assume the worst, and project it on to entire teams or companies. We set up straw men and rip them to shreds. And they're here, reading a lot of it. And it sucks.
I've definitely noticed it getting worse around here that's for sure
 

elenarie

Game Developer
Verified
Jun 10, 2018
9,798
Been there. Not really talking to anyone about Battlefield anymore. Much happier and peaceful that way.

Fun fact: there used to be "people" (maybe bots, I don't even know what to think of anymore), that would send DMs to some of us when we were traveling to the US for E3 / EA Play, that they would find us and do things that are not really mentionable in a public space. Never took those things seriously, but just imagine being the person that would write that to someone else. :)

Can't imagine how worse it must be for women and people of colour.
 

Palette Swap

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
11,201
I can't tell if it's an observation bias, developers (rightfully) speaking up more, or things getting worse, but it feels like things have been getting worse, and they were exactly rosy to begin with.
 
Dec 19, 2021
1,695
Social media is terrible and should either be done away with or forced to operate in a more responsible manner than it does now.
 

Deleted member 70788

Jun 2, 2020
9,620
This.

I see a lot of different posts and commentary online in general like "xyz community is the worst!" but in really for the most part I see the same shit just about everywhere and a lot of handwaving.

Good on Bungie and some other companies for seeming to do the right things when it comes to their staff and standing up against this shit. At this point I pretty much don't want to post or be active online in general with what a cesspool a lot of it is, I can't even imagine what it's like to be on the receiving end like they are.
I think moat online communities that define themselves by some "fandom" are set up to be toxic. The identity becomes tribal and somewhat codified as sacred. Anything that shifts, questions, or confronts that adopted identity are viewed as personal slights due to the individual's poor ability to differentiate themselves from the adopted "fan" identity. This is enforced by people finding like-minded groups that reinforce their identity by finding an enemy and then ganging up on them which makes them feel like they both belong and validated.

This may start with "This game is the best." but unchecked and in unhealthy people it becomes "Fuck you for ruining my identity and changing something dear to who I am."

Before social media become as strong as it was, it was hard to go this far. You didn't have insular communities that functioned as echo chambers. You may like your N64 better than the Playstation, but you still knew your neighbor and built forts with him in the woods. It wasn't like you actually thought he was a bad person - how could you?

Now? You can go as deep as you want to go and you will continue to find others who also want to go that deep, only to reinforce it and go even deeper. Before long, you're finding meaning in this shared hate vortex and IT becomes your identity.
 
Dec 9, 2018
20,974
New Jersey
Shiteaters ruining the experience for the entire communty is always the worst. Hope the threats cool off soon and those perpetuating them are held accountable.
 
Oct 26, 2017
7,301
There really needs to be a world wide effort to take online threats as seriously as offline ones. Prosecute the fuck out of these idiots, hand out some fines or some prison time, make an example. There is no real consequence to being a shithead who can ruin someone's life for the lulz. Maybe if a few had their own lives ruined, others would hesitate.

Nobody is really anonymous on the internet and most people who do these threats are really not savvy enough to even try to hide.
 

RoKKeR

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,375
I really hate these damn "communities" of "fans". Fuck off with your toxic bullshit.
 

Azerth

Prophet of Truth - Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,176
Remember when Andy McNamara told the Battlefield community to chill a little because the devs were on Christmas holiday and the subreddit got so vicious and angry the mods had to temporarily close the subreddit?

I'll never understand why people think that kind of behavior is okay.
similar thing happened to the halo subreddit. i think they also closed it for a couple of days
 

Mung

Member
Nov 2, 2017
3,431
This is why I never agree when I see people say that devs should be more directly communicative with their fans.

It'll just lead to loads of abuse.

Arms length is the safe approach.
 

TeacherDenz

Member
Jul 7, 2020
294
Oh lord what is wrong with people? Like why does it also feel like these kind of threats are increasing against people who don't mean no harm?
 

Splader

Member
Feb 12, 2018
5,063
While this is good, they're still partly hand-waving the overall issue with harassment by saying, "I stand by what I said about the Apex situation," in that he stands by accusing the devs of using harassment to take the attention away from "real" issues.
Oh yeah, it's not much better lol.
 

B.O.O.M.

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,756
Some gamers can be real shits. Good on Bungie for taking whatever steps needed to protect the well being of the employees