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Bungie splits with Activision; retains ownership of Destiny IP

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dex3108
Oct 26, 2017
4,202
Right now the most popular game in the world, Fortnite, is a self-published client that is free to download a la carte, supports crossplay parallel PvE and PvP modes, is rapidly iterated through a regular update schedule, and is supported through a mix between seasonal content passes (that promote regular engagement) and cosmetic purchases.

If you want to know what Bungie is thinking for the future of Destiny, IMO that’s it.

Destiny’s peers, like Warframe, already embrace a similar model, and build onto a base game with regular updates when they are ready (instead of annual releases bound to retail, with all of the baggage that kind of release entails). I don’t know how far along D3 is, but I imagine this move telegraphs that D3 will be a Destiny client, and all future content will be a part of it.
That's the issue Bungie is not capable of fast iterations currently. They will need to change a lot to do it.
 
Oct 30, 2017
4,331
Warframe is comparable in that terms though.
And let's see if Anthem is but that game and Bioware are an unknown quantity in this space.

I never fancied Warframe as a looker, and whilst on a technical level Anthem is a step above destiny, it falls flat compared to Destiny's art, that shit just oozes class.

 
Oct 25, 2017
3,146
I never fancied Warframe as a looker, and whilst on a technical level Anthem is a step above destiny, it falls flat compared to Destiny's art, that shit just oozes class.

I personally like Warframe's look. It's doing some really nice things with rendering and the devs updated every single piece of asset when they made the shift to PBR materials a few years back. All that engine change while still having the same SKU without requiring a brand new game.



 
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Nov 12, 2017
947
I'm curious if this could promote Bungie trying to get crossplay going for D2 or their next title with Playstation and Xbox? Seems like a good time to try and unify the player base.
Not needed.....only online do I hear people clamoring for cross-play. Friends interested to play with their friends will text, call, email, WhatsApp, IM, FBM, Kik, Tinder, iMessage, etc. and coordinate on what console to buy.

Right now, Bungie needs to focus in the story-writing and improving the online performance of Destiny to win the playerbase back. If they still care about Destiny, since Matter is probably their priority.
 
Jan 7, 2018
1,023
So if Bungie are publishing this themselves, does that make them an indie dev?

I never fancied Warframe as a looker, and whilst on a technical level Anthem is a step above destiny, it falls flat compared to Destiny's art, that shit just oozes class.

Thats your example...? >.> err thats a SUPER generic looking bad guy my dude
 
Oct 30, 2017
4,331
So if Bungie are publishing this themselves, does that make them an indie dev?


Thats your example...? >.> err thats a SUPER generic looking bad guy my dude
I'm on mobile and it was the only gif I could find, I thougth Oryx was rather imposing chap.

Look at him, absolute unit
 
Oct 30, 2017
4,331
I personally like Warframe's look. It's doing some really nice things with rendering and the devs updated every single piece of asset when they made the shift to PBR materials a few years back. All that engine change while still having the same SKU without requiring a brand new game.

The cephlopod inspired frames never jived with me.

Why do the tendrals coming out of my arms have tendrals of their own?
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,146
The cephlopod inspired frames never jived with me.

Why do the tendrals coming out of my arms have tendrals of their own?
I could tell you but I'd have to spoil you or anyone who reads this on one of the most amazing done things in Warframe or twists in general
The Warframes themselves are infections covered in armor, they are basically a dead carcass reanimated with no mind of their own and are controller by super psychic children who you get to control as well at will during gameplay since they end up teleporting to the location at the press of a button due to their link with the frames.

But not all frames are like that:




Also the frames are super customisable and you can mix and match each piece of armor pretty easily. So there's that too. It's just that people really like long trailing braids, tendrils, cloak and stuff because it looks really nice while running, jumping and flying.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
5,047
PA - US
The mtx model started because Bungie was behind on revenue due to Activision. They were trying to bridge the gap.
Got a source on that? Even if that is the case, I think it's naive to assume that Bungie is going to suddenly turn Destiny isn't a buy once, play forever except for expansions game. There'll be some kind of recurring revenue model for them because that's how all service games exist nowadays.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,901
Today's TWAB should be good.

They were hinting at something yesterday.
I'm guessing cross play or cross save.
?? Wasn't the TWAB yesterday which announced the split?

Because of that, I believe Bungie is working on "Destiny 3" to release in fall 2020 alongside the next generation of consoles. It will be marketed as the ultimate and final "version" of Destiny -- it will not only include a new campaign that acts as the "epic conclusion" to the fight against the Darkness but it will include the majority of areas and content from Destiny 1 and 2. In other words, this will be the game that many players thought we would be getting with the original Destiny --- an always changing universe that new planets are added to over the years. I can even see this PS5/Scarlet game simply being called "Destiny."

Perhaps unlikely, but I think something like that is what Bungie wants to do.
That'd be awesome, but I'm pessimistic that's what they'd try to do considering they already have a hard time keeping old content that's already in D2 relevant. Then again an overhaul in lieu of a sequel would be a good time to try it.
 
Nov 14, 2017
558
I disagree with a lot of the comments here about destiny 3 being a sure thing, at least in the short term. I bet the work that they've been doing on a destiny 3 for Activision gets rolled into destiny 2. I think destiny becoming a platform is much more a reality now that Activision isn't there to mandate new sequels.
This probably is more realistic actually. I'll amend my prediction:

- Content from the Annual Pass will continue through the summer in Destiny 2.
- In the fall, we'll get a smaller expansion similar to Rise of Iron. Maybe another Annual Pass.
- What would have been Destiny 3 will launch in fall 2020. It will be an expansion/update to D2 on current consoles but they will drop "2" form the title and simply call it Destiny again.
- This "ultimate" version of the game, simply called Destiny, will get a retail release alongside the next generation consoles. This version of the game is now the singular version of Destiny that will be uploaded throughout the PS5/Scarlet generation. Bungie will let it be known there will be no more "sequels." This is Destiny.
In the original contract it says that Activision can retain publishing rights for two years for the titles they originally published. That might have been changed, but it's entirely possible that Destiny 1 & 2 and all the content associated with it will have the Activision name on it for the next couple of years. In that case, Bungie might have to release a new version of Destiny just to get away from that. It would make sense for that version of the game to be the platform they build on from now on.

Just my 5 cents. I assume that Activision has come to realize that in Destiny's case Gaas does not equal guaranteed unlimited growth and safe, easy money. It think they're ok with this.



...that's BO4 money.
I think it's more that the deal was due to expire, and Bungie had no interest in renewing it. Given that Bungie owned the IP, it made more sense for Activision to walk away now rather than fund a project they were unlikely to receive a substantial benefit from. Because they had a traditional boxed publishing deal with Bungie, their interest was in getting all the revenue up front. That's why Destiny was developed as a traditional boxed retail product, and not GaaS. This split should hopefully mean Destiny will now be a true service based game.

Not needed.....only online do I hear people clamoring for cross-play. Friends interested to play with their friends will text, call, email, WhatsApp, IM, FBM, Kik, Tinder, iMessage, etc. and coordinate on what console to buy.

Right now, Bungie needs to focus in the story-writing and improving the online performance of Destiny to win the playerbase back. If they still care about Destiny, since Matter is probably their priority.
Cross play and progression would be huge for Destiny. Bungie has an incentive to do it too, because idiots like me would totally double dip so that I can raid at 60fps but still play with my PSN friends. I'd still play PVP on PS4 though, cos I'm too old now to do m&kb against the kids on PC these days.
 
Oct 25, 2017
17,889
Providence / Boston
In the original contract it says that Activision can retain publishing rights for two years for the titles they originally published. That might have been changed, but it's entirely possible that Destiny 1 & 2 and all the content associated with it will have the Activision name on it for the next couple of years. In that case, Bungie might have to release a new version of Destiny just to get away from that. It would make sense for that version of the game to be the platform they build on from now on.
I think that likely would have changed with the way they were released from the contract. But we likely won't get any real details on that for a long time.
 
Oct 30, 2017
20
Yeah, up until now Bungie has been completely hands off and totally not at all responsible for the complete shitshows of Destiny 1/2's year 1 content. :roll:
Coming from Luke Smith Im like:



You were the reason D2 launched the way it did.
While Luke has definitely said some things that deserve to get dragged, he's receiving an undue amount of blame for the mismanagement of Bungie's senior leadership.

If you've been in it for the long haul and followed D1 (Jason Schrier's Blood, Sweat, and Pixels) & D2's (multiple This Week at Bungie updates) development woes, you'll know that in both cases, 1 yr to 1.5 years from launch both titles were essentially rebooted at senior leadership's behest ie above both Luke and Mark Noseworthy's pay grades.

In D2's case in particular, not only was it rebooted but just prior to that, I think before the April update, Bungie promoted a new CEO whom had been in charge of Marketing and then Luke was given creative control of D2. So he had a limited timetable to get a minimum viable product out for D2's launch. I believe D2's casual launch was equal parts: Activision's meddling for more revenue (ie strong mtx push), a new CEO with Marketing and not a gaming background focus, Jason Jones and other senior leaders wishy-washiness, the reboot and lack of time to build deep RPG systems and endgame investment.

Luke was the lead for Vault of Glass, widely regarded as D1Y1's pinnacle content. Had he had more time and more control (I think Jason Jones needs to go, he's had his time to shine), D2Y1 would've been a much different picture.

That being said I'm cautiously neutral here, because under Jason Jones Bungie has proven that they don't have an internal focus audience picked (hardcore v casual), they can't keep to an acceptable content rollout schedule for a GAAS (I'm sorry but the TTK drought with only live team event & barebones content minimal updates was absolutely dreadful, I left for Division during that time), and until Jan '18 proved to be absolutely inept at the constant communication and openness that a game company needs in the year of our Lord 2019.

I can only hope that the lack of a leash doesn't cause Bungie's communication pattern's to relapse and for the content rollout to dry up. As much as I love Forsaken (and I do because I'm a Destiny Fanboy), Destiny can't coast a year on just that size expansion, live team updates/events aren't going to keep me invested, and the slow trickle of Black Armory still isn't enough content for a GAAS.

I'm not sure how Bungie solves the rollout problem since even with 1K plus heads (VV & High Moon which they're losing) they won't be able to keep up. Maybe they go on a hiring spree, but a year drought isn't sustainable, the player dropoff from TTK -> RoI is all you need to look at to know that.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,927
While Luke has definitely said some things that deserve to get dragged, he's receiving an undue amount of blame for the mismanagement of Bungie's senior leadership.

If you've been in it for the long haul and followed D1 (Jason Schrier's Blood, Sweat, and Pixels) & D2's (multiple This Week at Bungie updates) development woes, you'll know that in both cases, 1 yr to 1.5 years from launch both titles were essentially rebooted at senior leadership's behest ie above both Luke and Mark Noseworthy's pay grades.

In D2's case in particular, not only was it rebooted but just prior to that, I think before the April update, Bungie promoted a new CEO whom had been in charge of Marketing and then Luke was given creative control of D2. So he had a limited timetable to get a minimum viable product out for D2's launch. I believe D2's casual launch was equal parts: Activision's meddling for more revenue (ie strong mtx push), a new CEO with Marketing and not a gaming background focus, Jason Jones and other senior leaders wishy-washiness, the reboot and lack of time to build deep RPG systems and endgame investment.

Luke was the lead for Vault of Glass, widely regarded as D1Y1's pinnacle content. Had he had more time and more control (I think Jason Jones needs to go, he's had his time to shine), D2Y1 would've been a much different picture.

That being said I'm cautiously neutral here, because under Jason Jones Bungie has proven that they don't have an internal focus audience picked (hardcore v casual), they can't keep to an acceptable content rollout schedule for a GAAS (I'm sorry but the TTK drought with only live team event & barebones content minimal updates was absolutely dreadful, I left for Division during that time), and until Jan '18 proved to be absolutely inept at the constant communication and openness that a game company needs in the year of our Lord 2019.

I can only hope that the lack of a leash doesn't cause Bungie's communication pattern's to relapse and for the content rollout to dry up. As much as I love Forsaken (and I do because I'm a Destiny Fanboy), Destiny can't coast a year on just that size expansion, live team updates/events aren't going to keep me invested, and the slow trickle of Black Armory still isn't enough content for a GAAS.

I'm not sure how Bungie solves the rollout problem since even with 1K plus heads (VV & High Moon which they're losing) they won't be able to keep up. Maybe they go on a hiring spree, but a year drought isn't sustainable, the player dropoff from TTK -> RoI is all you need to look at to know that.
They will need to add new modes/content that have high replayability and desirable loot. Also, they need to bring back D1 content. I think at this juncture the community will be more accepting of recycled content. Bring back random rolls for D2Y1 content such as the old raids and weapons/gear.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,262
Miami, FL
Great post, ninja monkey.

I’ve been thinking same thing regarding content frequency. Even if Bungie is free of Activision’s strict requirements, Destiny cannot go months and months without new content. It doesn’t matter who’s the publisher, the game needs a steady stream of content and the execution has to be solid. Even stuff like the Black Armory content doesn’t cut it and over time Destiny becomes more cluttered with older, outdated content and newer shorter less meaningful content. It’s not a good look and it actively encourages casual and lapsed players to stay away.
 
Dec 7, 2017
294
Great post, ninja monkey.

I’ve been thinking same thing regarding content frequency. Even if Bungie is free of Activision’s strict requirements, Destiny cannot go months and months without new content. It doesn’t matter who’s the publisher, the game needs a steady stream of content and the execution has to be solid. Even stuff like the Black Armory content doesn’t cut it and over time Destiny becomes more cluttered with older, outdated content and newer shorter less meaningful content. It’s not a good look and it actively encourages casual and lapsed players to stay away.
Wouldn't they need to revamp the creation engine for that?

last i heard the bottleneck for content was the engine?

if they do that might take significant amount of time and investment
 
Jan 7, 2018
1,023
I'm on mobile and it was the only gif I could find, I thougth Oryx was rather imposing chap.

Look at him, absolute unit
Dude looks like a typical demon boss guy from any fantasy sci-fi world, Final Fantasy, Warframe etc. Personally I've always found Destinys art style completely hollow. Just a shell where they make something look or sound cool then work backwards. Alas I just went to the Destiny fashion subreddit, they've got some great designs on there. This particular one encapsulates your 'classy' comment.



That shit looks good.





Also the frames are super customisable and you can mix and match each piece of armor pretty easily. So there's that too. It's just that people really like long trailing braids, tendrils, cloak and stuff because it looks really nice while running, jumping and flying.
I checked out the Warframe fashion sub too (some of my favs) after this post and they've got some juicy stuff there. Era got a fashion thread or are these gifs you've made?
 
Dec 6, 2017
185
Got a source on that? Even if that is the case, I think it's naive to assume that Bungie is going to suddenly turn Destiny isn't a buy once, play forever except for expansions game. There'll be some kind of recurring revenue model for them because that's how all service games exist nowadays.
I'm sure it's somewhere out there on the internet. Been forever since I read about it. Probably a kotaku article. And I agree with you.
 
Oct 27, 2017
848
I'm on mobile and it was the only gif I could find, I thougth Oryx was rather imposing chap.

Look at him, absolute unit
He looks like a random Tenno to me. lol He was cool but he isn’t anything special art wise. (IMO) Destiny’s art peaks at weapon design. Amazing stuff there.
 
Nov 12, 2017
947
In the original contract it says that Activision can retain publishing rights for two years for the titles they originally published. That might have been changed, but it's entirely possible that Destiny 1 & 2 and all the content associated with it will have the Activision name on it for the next couple of years. In that case, Bungie might have to release a new version of Destiny just to get away from that. It would make sense for that version of the game to be the platform they build on from now on.



I think it's more that the deal was due to expire, and Bungie had no interest in renewing it. Given that Bungie owned the IP, it made more sense for Activision to walk away now rather than fund a project they were unlikely to receive a substantial benefit from. Because they had a traditional boxed publishing deal with Bungie, their interest was in getting all the revenue up front. That's why Destiny was developed as a traditional boxed retail product, and not GaaS. This split should hopefully mean Destiny will now be a true service based game.



Cross play and progression would be huge for Destiny. Bungie has an incentive to do it too, because idiots like me would totally double dip so that I can raid at 60fps but still play with my PSN friends. I'd still play PVP on PS4 though, cos I'm too old now to do m&kb against the kids on PC these days.
One can never be too old for m&kb....I just did some mythic dungeons the other day with a 67 yo WoW player that tanked like a champ.

Cross-save would be great for flexibility, but cross-play is an internet agenda. I don't wanna derail the thread though.

Bungie needs a better story and overall online performance for Destiny going forward. Maybe they can pull an Epic somehow.
 
Oct 30, 2017
20
I know but Halo 1 2 3 and Reach carry a fuckload of weight, and you have to remember a huge lot of XBox users are now PSN users. So it would carry more weight then you think.

Please indulge me for a good minute and just imagine the scenario at play. Xbox gets a Bungie exclusive, and I can guarentee the first things you'll see is "Xbox and Bungie Together??!?!? Is Xbox Finally Gonna take 1st Place", or something along those lines will be on every news site out there.

It will carry word of mouth so fucking quick, it would be the same as HL3 releasing. Bungie and Xbox those two in people's minds runs through a bucket load of nostalgia. That's what it would run off, and the Advertising power of MS will be on the level of Halo 3 launch.

Because the people that remember it those people are going to be interested.

This sounds like a fantasy but I'm trying to show you how it would play out.
This is the only console post I'll respond to because I don't prefer one or the other but the same is true for Sony exclusivity. Look at the output of their first party titles since 2017, Horizon Zero Dawn, God of War, Spider-Man etc , as well as the hype for Ghosts of Tsushima, Last of Us 2, and Death Stranding, and you can see why Sony fans would be equally as excited. Say what you will about Sony's platform lock-in tactics but they support and treat their studios right as well as giving them plenty of time to develop their titles.

Objectively speaking Sony has market dominance right now ie more consoles in people's homes globally right now than Microsoft and thus an exclusive would objectively make much much more money in the near-term for Sony & Bungie than a Bungie & Microsoft one would.

* I am 100% not on-board with either, I'd prefer D3 crossplay/save on all systems including PC.
 
Nov 14, 2017
558
One can never be too old for m&kb....I just did some mythic dungeons the other day with a 67 yo WoW player that tanked like a champ.

Cross-save would be great for flexibility, but cross-play is an internet agenda. I don't wanna derail the thread though.

Bungie needs a better story and overall online performance for Destiny going forward. Maybe they can pull an Epic somehow.
Tanking is less precise than getting headshots. In any case, when I play FFXIV I main tank and use a Steam controller 😸
 
Dec 1, 2017
114
I wonder if this means that YouTubers that went to the summit can spill some tea on what happened that made them design D2 like how it was. I remember some of them said that once it was explained to them they understood why bungie chose the more casual route with Y1 D2
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,831
Long Island
I wonder if this means that YouTubers that went to the summit can spill some tea on what happened that made them design D2 like how it was. I remember some of them said that once it was explained to them they understood why bungie chose the more casual route with Y1 D2
They are about to go to another summit
 
Dec 7, 2017
4,498
Spain
I’m wondering if Epic, Microsoft or Amazon could try to get involved in Destiny ?

For Epic, having Destiny exclusive to the Epic store would be huge ! They could make the game a free to play.

Microsoft could try to get the franchise exclusive for next gen. That would be a killer move.

And Amazon who is working on that streaming console. How about getting Destiny as the first big exclusive for the console.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,530
Småland, Sweden
We'll finally get to see if all the shit decisions in Destiny was due to Bungie or Activision. My guess is obviously the latter.
Yeah, it will be interesting to see if Destiny 3 is shit or good, how Bungie do without Activision. I'm not too hopeful.

No wonder they're suddenly leaning harder on Blizzard. I wonder how long until Blizzard tries to get out?
The company name literally been Activision Blizzard and not just Activision for the past decade, Blizzard can't get out, they are owned.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,083
I’m wondering if Epic, Microsoft or Amazon could try to get involved in Destiny ?

For Epic, having Destiny exclusive to the Epic store would be huge ! They could make the game a free to play.

Microsoft could try to get the franchise exclusive for next gen. That would be a killer move.

And Amazon who is working on that streaming console. How about getting Destiny as the first big exclusive for the console.
Any AAA publisher would love to publish Destiny.