Busting Male Rape Myths: Why Male Rape is de-emphasized, underreported, and ignored.

[Deleted member 11413]

Male rape myths run rampant on this forum. Whether it's people making prison rape jokes, to accounts of sexual harassment and assault by male victims being met with victim blaming, to simply inaccurate statements about the experience of being a male victim of sexual harassment, assault, or abuse the rape myths abound. So I'm making this thread and providing some information so that there is a greater understanding of this issue to hopefully avoid some of the troubling things that get posted in threads about this subject.

The Prevalence of Male Abuse/Assault

Common wisdom is that women are the primary victims of sexual abuse and sexual assault, and that male victimization in this manner is rare and only occurs in very specific circumstances. While women ARE more likely to be victims of sexual abuse, assault, or harassment, male victimization rates are actually far closer to female victimization rates than was previously thought. To quote from a great resource on this issue (1in6.org):

What the research tells us:*

• A 2005 study conducted by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control, on San Diego Kaiser Permanente HMO members, reported that 16% of males were sexually abused by the age of 18.1
• A 2003 national study of U.S. adults reported that 14.2% of men were sexually abused before the age of 18.2
• A 1998 study reviewing research on male childhood sexual abuse concluded that the problems is "common, under-reported, under-recognized, and under-treated."3
• A 1996 study of male university students in the Boston area reported that 18% of men were sexually abused before the age of 16.4
• A 1990 national study of U.S. adults reported that 16% of men were sexually abused before the age of 18.5

Why these statistics are probably underestimates:

• Males who have such experiences are less likely to disclose them than are females.6
• Only 16% of men with documented histories of sexual abuse (by social service agencies, which means it was very serious) considered themselves to have been sexually abused, compared to 64% of women with documented histories in the same study.7

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Source: https://1in6.org/get-information/the-1-in-6-statistic/

It's important to point out that this information is specific to men abused/assaulted before the age of 18, so it does not apply to men who were abused or assaulted as adults. As such, these estimates are conservative and the number of male victims who were victimized either in childhood or adulthood is going to be higher. As noted here, disclosure rates among men are significantly lower than among women (men are less likely to speak out about abuse, and wait longer on average to speak out) and the rate of denial among men about abuse they've suffered is incredibly high. All victims of sexual assault and abuse experience fear and apprehension about coming forward or denial about what has happened to them, but as this research suggests male victims are more impacted by these fears and denial than female victims. I'm leading with this information because I feel it is important to establish why we hear less about sexual abuse and assault against males, and to dispel the notion that hearing less about the issue = the issue is nonexistent or rare. The fact that male rape myths exist are a huge factor in why men are less likely to come forward or less likely to believe they were abused, and the perpetuation of male rape myths is the perpetuation of rape culture.

The Male Perpetrator/Female Victim Paradigm

In order to truly combat rape culture and reduce the stigmatization against male victims, we must move beyond the male perpetrator/female victim paradigm. While male perpetrator/female victim is the most common form of sexual violence, it is not the only form and the focus on this form of sexual violence has resulted in other forms of sexual violence (Male on Male, Female on Male, Female on Female) being outright ignored by scholars and institutions. Lara Stemple and Illan Meyer's landmark paper does a fantastic job of explaining how the focus on this paradigm has led to the exclusion of study on other forms of victimization:

The conceptualization of men as perpetrators and women as victims remains the dominant sexual victimization paradigm.11 Scholars have offered various explanations for why victimization that runs counter to this paradigm receives little attention. These include the ideas that female-perpetrated abuse is rare or nonexistent,12 that male victims experience less harm,8 and that for men all sex is welcome.13 Some posit that because dominant feminist theory relies heavily on the idea that men use sexual aggression to subordinate women,14 findings perceived to conflict with this theory, such as female-perpetrated violence against men, are politically unpalatable.15 Others argue that researchers have a conformity bias, leading them to overlook research data that conflict with their prior beliefs.16
We have interrogated some of the stereotypes concerning gender and sexual victimization, and we call for researchers to move beyond them. First, we question the assumption that feminist theory requires disproportionate concern for female victims. Indeed, some contemporary gender theorists have questioned the overwhelming focus on female victimization, not simply because it misses male victims but also because it serves to reinforce regressive notions of female vulnerability.17 When the harms that women experience are held out as exceedingly more common and more worrisome, this can perpetuate norms that see women as disempowered victims,7 reinforcing the idea that women are "noble, pure, passive, and ignorant."13(p1719)
Related to this, treating male sexual victimization as a rare occurrence can impose regressive expectations about masculinity on men and boys. The belief that men are unlikely victims promotes a counterproductive construct of what it means to "be a man."18 This can reinforce notions of naturalistic masculinity long criticized by feminist theory, which asserts that masculinity is culturally constructed.19 Expectations about male invincibility are constraining for men and boys; they may also harm women and girls by perpetuating regressive gender norms.
Another common gender stereotype portrays men as sexually insatiable.13 The idea that, for men, virtually all sex is welcome likely contributes to dismissive attitudes toward male sexual victimization. Such dismissal runs counter to evidence that men who experience sexual abuse report problems such as depression, suicidal ideation, anxiety, sexual dysfunction, loss of self-esteem, and long-term relationship difficulties.20
A related argument for treating male victimization as less worrisome holds that male victims experience less physical force than do female victims,21 the implication being that the use of force determines concern about victimization. This rationale problematically conflicts with the important feminist-led movement away from physical force as a defining and necessary component of sexual victimization.22 In addition, a recent multiyear analysis of the BJS National Crime Victim Survey (NCVS) found no difference between male and female victims in the use of a resistance strategy during rape and sexual assault (89% of both men and women did so). A weapon was used in 7% of both male and female incidents, and although resultant injuries requiring medical care were higher in women, men too experienced significant injuries (12.6% of females and 8.5% of males).23
Portraying male victimization as aberrant or harmless also adds to the stigmatization of men who face sexual victimization.8 Sexual victimization can be a stigmatizing experience for both men and women. However, through decades of feminist-led struggle, fallacies described as "rape myths"24 have been largely discredited in American society, and an alternative narrative concerning female victimization has emerged. This narrative teaches that, contrary to timeworn tropes, the victimization of a woman is not her fault, that it is not caused by her prior sexual history or her choice of attire, and that for survivors of rape and other abuse, speaking out against victimization can be politically important and personally redemptive.
For men, a similar discourse has not been developed. Indeed contemporary social narratives, including jokes about prison rape,25 the notion that "real men" can protect themselves,8 and the fallacy that gay male victims likely "asked for it,"26 pose obstacles for males coping with victimization. A male victim's sexual arousal, which is not uncommon during nonconsensual sex, may add to the misapprehension that the victimization was a welcome event.27 Feelings of embarrassment, the victim's fear that he will not be believed, and the belief that reporting itself is unmasculine have all been cited as reasons for male resistance to reporting sexual victimization.28 Popular media also reflects insensitivity, if not callousness, toward male victims. For example, a 2009 CBS News report about a serial rapist who raped 4 men concluded, "No one has been seriously hurt."29
The minimization of male sexual victimization and the hesitancy of victims to come forward may also contribute to a paucity of legal action concerning male sexual victimization. Although state laws have become more gender neutral, criminal prosecution for the sexual victimization of men remains rare and has been attributed to a lack of concern for male victims.30 The faulty assertion that male victimization is uncommon has also been used to justify the exclusion of men and boys in scholarship on sexual victimization.31 Perhaps such widespread exclusion itself causes male victims to assume they are alone in their experience, thereby fueling underreporting.32
Not only does the traditional sexual victimization paradigm masks male victimization, it can obscure sexual abuse perpetrated by women as well as same-sex victimization. We offer a few counterparadigmatic examples. One multiyear analysis of the NCVS household survey found that 46% of male victims reported a female perpetrator.23 Of juveniles reporting staff sexual misconduct, 89% were boys reporting abuse by female staff.33 In lifetime reports of nonrape sexual victimization, the NISVS found that 79% of self-reported gay male victims identified same-sex perpetrators.34
Despite such complexities, as recently as 2012, the National Incident Based Reporting System (a component of the Uniform Crime Reporting Program [UCR]) included male rape victims but still maintained that for victimization to be categorized as rape, at least 1 of the perpetrators had to be of the opposite sex.35 Conversely, under the NISVS definitions, for a female to fall into the "made to penetrate" category, the perpetrating receptive partner must also be female.5 ("Made to penetrate" includes anal penetration by a finger or other object, and a female could therefore be made to penetrate a male.) Additional research and analysis concerning female perpetration and same-sex abuse is warranted but is beyond the scope of this article. For now we simply highlight the concern that reliance on the male perpetrator and female victim paradigm limits understandings, not only of male victimization but of all counterparadigmatic abuse.

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Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4062022/

In particular, I want to highlight this section of the paper:

Not only does the traditional sexual victimization paradigm masks male victimization, it can obscure sexual abuse perpetrated by women as well as same-sex victimization. We offer a few counterparadigmatic examples. One multiyear analysis of the NCVS household survey found that 46% of male victims reported a female perpetrator.23 Of juveniles reporting staff sexual misconduct, 89% were boys reporting abuse by female staff.33 In lifetime reports of nonrape sexual victimization, the NISVS found that 79% of self-reported gay male victims identified same-sex perpetrators.34

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Amongst all demographics of male sexual assault and abuse victims female perpetrators are common, and for some demographics the make up the majority of perpetrators. In order to move beyond these rape myths and provide support for male victims, society needs to accept that women can be and often are perpetrators of sexual abuse.

Why Male Rape Myths Persist

One of the biggest contributors to male rape myths persisting in the modern day is due to the history of poor scholarship and incident tracking by institutions. For decades men were flat-out excluded from definitions of rape, and thus male rape data was simply not collected. Furthermore, the physiological differences between men and women affect the manner in which men are raped or abused compared to women, and for many years the physical methods by which men were typically raped or abused were de-emphasized or ignored entirely. From Stemple and Meyer:

The definitions and uses of terms such as "rape" and "sexual assault" have evolved over time, with significant implications for how the victimization of women and men is measured. Although the definitions and categorization of these harms have become more gender inclusive over time, bias against recognizing male victimization remains.
When the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) began tracking violent crime in 1930, the rape of men was excluded. Until 2012, the UCR, through which the FBI collects annual crime data, defined "forcible rape" as "the carnal knowledge of a female forcibly and against her will" (emphasis added).36 Approximately 17 000 local law enforcement agencies used this female-only definition for the better part of a century when submitting standardized data to the FBI.37 Meanwhile, the reform of state criminal law on rape, which began in the 1970s and eventually spread to every jurisdiction in the country, revised definitions in numerous ways, including the increased recognition of male victimization. Reforms also broadened definitions to address nonrape sexual assault.38
These state revisions left a mismatch with the limited UCR definition, forcing agencies to send only a subset of reported sexual assault to the FBI. Some localities eventually refused to parse their data according to the biased federal categories. For example, in 2010 Chicago, Illinois, recorded 84 767 reports of forcible rape under UCR, but because they refused to comply with the UCR's outdated categorization, the FBI did not include Chicago rape data in its national count.39
In 2012 the FBI revised its 80-year-old definition of rape to the following: "the penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim."40 Although the new definition reflects a more inclusive understanding of sexual victimization, it appears to still focus on the penetration of the victim, which excludes victims who were made to penetrate. This likely undercounts male victimization for reasons we now detail.
The NISVS's 12-month prevalence estimates of sexual victimization show that male victimization is underrepresented when victim penetration is the only form of nonconsensual sex included in the definition of rape. The number of women who have been raped (1 270 000) is nearly equivalent to the number of men who were "made to penetrate" (1 267 000).5 As Figure 1 also shows, both men and women experienced "sexual coercion" and "unwanted sexual contact," with women more likely than men to report the former and men slightly more likely to report the latter.5

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A significant portion of male rape and abuse occurs in the form of the victim being 'made to penetrate' rather than penetration of the victim. 'Made to penetrate' rapes are common in cases of male on male rape, and represent the majority of female on male rape instances. However, victims that are made to penetrate instead of being penetrated are often de-emphasized in sexual assault data or completely excluded from sexual assault data. Additionally, this effects female victims who suffer forms of abuse or assault which don't involve penetration of the victim as well.

These issues in data collection carry over into reporting on sexual assault data as well, both from the institutions gathering the data and media outlets reporting on the data. From Stemple and Meyer:

This striking finding—that men and women reported similar rates of nonconsensual sex in a 12-month period—might have made for a newsworthy finding. Instead, the CDC's public presentation of these data emphasized female sexual victimization, thereby (perhaps inadvertently) confirming gender stereotypes about victimization. For example, in the first headline of the fact sheet aiming to summarize the NISVS findings the CDC asserted, "Women are disproportionally affected by sexual violence." Similarly, the fact sheet's first bullet point stated, "1.3 million women were raped during the year preceding the survey." Because of the prioritization of rape, the fact sheet failed to note that a similar number of men reported nonconsensual sex (they were "made to penetrate").41
The fact sheet paints a picture of highly divergent prevalence of female and male abuse, when, in fact, the data concerning all nonconsensual sex are much more nuanced. Unsurprisingly, media outlets then emphasized the material the CDC highlighted in its summary material. The New York Times headline read, "Nearly 1 in 5 Women in U.S. Survey Say They Have Been Sexually Assaulted."42(pA32)
In addition, the full NISVS report presents data on sexual victimization in 2 main categories: rape and other sexual violence. "Rape," the category of nonconsensual sex that disproportionately affects women, is given its own table, whereas "made to penetrate," the category that disproportionately affects men, is treated as a subcategory, placed under and tabulated as "other sexual violence" alongside lesser-harm categories, such as "noncontact unwanted sexual experiences," which are experiences involving no touching.5

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Institutions are now gathering data specific to the ways in which men are abused and assaulted, yet then downplay the significance of that data or de-emphasize the importance of that data. Thus the analysis of this data becomes flawed, as Stemple and Meyer point out:

Prioritizing rape over being made to penetrate may seem an obvious and important distinction at first glimpse. After all, isn't rape intuitively the worst sexual abuse? But a more careful examination shows that prioritizing rape over other forms of nonconsensual sex is sometimes difficult to justify, for example, in the case of an adult forcibly performing oral sex on an adolescent girl and on an adolescent boy. Under the CDC's definitions, the assault on the girl (if even slightly penetrated in the act) would be categorized as rape but the assault on the boy would not. According to the CDC, the male victim was "made to penetrate" the perpetrator's mouth with his penis,5(p17) and his abuse would instead be categorized under the "other sexual violence" heading. We argue that this is neither a useful nor an equitable distinction.
By introducing the term "made to penetrate," the CDC has added new detail to help understand what happens when men are sexually victimized. But the distinction may obscure more than it elucidates. In contrast to the term "rape," the term "made to penetrate" is not commonly used. The CDC's own press release about the survey, for example, uses the word "rape" (or "raped") 7 times and makes no mention of "made to penetrate."43 In this way, "rape" is the harm that ultimately captures media attention, funding, and programmatic intervention, whereas "made to penetrate" is relegated to a secondary, somewhat obscure harm.

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Rape is rape, regardless of whether the victim is penetrated or made to penetrate. And yet the bias in reporting and data gathering on the subject clearly results in a focus on one form of victimization at the expense of another form of victimization, even though the harm that results from either form is identical. This is a huge problem because it feeds into the notion that "men are raped far less often than women are, and when they are raped it is less damaging" which has very little basis in fact yet is continually and subtly reinforced by the institutions who are supposed to be preventing sexual abuse and assault.

Furthermore, significant sampling bias exists in the process of gathering data about sexual assault which disproportionately affects male victims. The main source of this sampling bias? Excluding incarcerated people from surveys.

In population-based sexual victimization studies, as in many other areas, researchers use a sampling frame that is restricted to US households. This excludes, among others, those held in juvenile detention, jails, prisons, and immigration detention centers. Because of the explosion of the US prison and jail population to nearly 2.3 million people46 and the disproportionate representation of men (93% of prisoners9 and 87% of those in jail10) among the incarcerated, household surveys—including the closely watched NCVS—miss many men, especially low-income and minority men who are incarcerated at the time the household survey is conducted. Opportunities for intersectional analyses that take race, class, and other factors into account are missed when the incarcerated are excluded. For instance, characteristics such as sexual minority and disability status, including mental health problems, place inmates at risk: among nonheterosexual prison inmates with serious psychological distress, 21% report sexual victimization.47

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Why is this a problem? Because rates of sexual victimization among male inmates is higher than those of female inmates:

These 2 surveys demonstrate that male and female detainees both experience sexual victimization committed by staff and other inmates and that the prevalence differs by sex (Figure 1). The National Inmate Survey 2011–2012 shows that slightly more men than women in jails and prisons reported staff sexual misconduct, which includes all incidents of sexual contact with staff (12-month prevalence for men in jails = 1.9%, men in prisons = 2.4% vs 1.4% and 2.3%47 for women, respectively). Women in jails and prisons reported more inmate-on-inmate abuse than did men (women in jails = 3.6%, women in prisons = 6.9% vs 1.4% and 1.7% for men, respectively).
In the National Survey of Youth in Custody 2012, about 9.5% of male and female juvenile detainees reported sexual victimization in the 12 months before the interview (or since detained, if < 12 months).33 But gender differences were observed: females were more likely than were males to report sexual victimization by other youths (5.4% vs 2.2%), and males were more likely than were females to report sexual victimization by facility staff (8.2% vs 2.8%).33

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Incarcerated men report higher rates of sexual abuse in general than incarcerated women, and higher rates of sexual abuse from staff. Interestingly, incarcerated women report higher rates of sexual abuse from other inmates, which suggests that an additional side effect of excluding incarcerated population from data gathering is also masking instances of female on female abuse.

The effect of this exclusion from data gathering, according to Stemple and Meyer, is profound:

The examination of data from prisons, jails, and juvenile detention institutions reveals a very different picture of male sexual abuse in the United States from the picture portrayed by the household crime data alone. This discrepancy is stark when comparing the detainee findings with those of the NCVS, the longitudinal crime survey of households widely covered in the media each year. The 2012 NCVS's household estimates indicate that 131 259 incidents of rape and sexual assault were committed against males.49 Using adjusted numbers from the detainee surveys, we roughly estimate that more than 900 000 sexual victimization incidents were committed against incarcerated males (Figure 2).

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That is a massive discrepancy in the number of male rapes that are being collected from household surveys vs. the actual amount of male rapes occurring annually. By neglecting to gather data about incarcerated populations, institutions are missing a huge portion of the sexual violence that is occurring against men, and also a significant portion of sexual violence committed against women by other women.


Conclusion

I realize this thread is incredibly long-winded, but I'm tired of seeing male rape myths being propagated on this forum and male victims being met with skepticism and victim blaming, especially when the perpetrators are women. Our patriarchal society has silenced millions of victims of sexual assault and abuse, both male and female, and rape culture will continue to persist until we have a wholistic view of this issue and the wide array of demographics it affects and permutations in which it occurs.

 

[SugarNoodles]

Era gets pretty whiny at the mere mention of toxic masculinity, but sure, let's give this a go. It's an important issue.

 

[Deleted member 11413]

Era gets pretty whiny at the mere mention of toxic masculinity, but sure, let's give this a go. It's an important issue.

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Toxic masculinity is a huge reason why male rape/abuse is underreported. Probably the biggest factor actually. I think this issue is the best example of how toxic masculinity harms men.

 

[Deleted member 82]

Pop Culture Detective has an incredible video on the whole "Male/prison rape as a joke" theme, and how it's a reflection of toxic masculinity. I found it really well-made and quite enlightening.

 

[Deleted member 11413]

Pop Culture Detective has an incredible video on the whole "Male/prison rape as a joke" theme, and how it's a reflection of toxic masculinity. I found it really well-made and quite enlightening.

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Yeah I've seen this and it's quite a good breakdown. This issue is so much larger than just prison rape jokes though. Media has a huge influence on how we perceive issues, and media is almost universally terrible when it comes to portrayals of male assault and abuse

 

[Budi]

Great important thread and a good read, thanks a lot for taking the time to write it.

 

[collige]

Thanks for making this thread. That OP is very well written.

 

[Deleted member 82]

Yeah I've seen this and it's quite a good breakdown. This issue is so much larger than just prison rape jokes though

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No doubt. I just couldn't help posting it because I saw it only recently and I found it very insightful.

 

[Pooh]

I know that in college there were a ton of flyers, seminars, etc. educating women on recognizing if they were raped, but I never saw any for men. Unfortunately far too many men and women don't see male rape as "possible" or "serious."
This is insidiously reinforced every time rape is discussed as a "woman's issue."

 

[Morrigan]

For example, a 2009 CBS News report about a serial rapist who raped 4 men concluded, "No one has been seriously hurt."29

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Holy fuck, WHAT

Edit: I looked up the original source article and I think this is taken out of context. For that particular line about no one being seriously hurt, the article seemed to be talking about foiled attempts. At least, I think. The rest of the article does address toxic masculinity and fear of reporting and so on, at least. Still, poor choice of word there.

(Not saying this nitpick undermines anything either, of course. I'm tired of how people downplay male rape. Just today I argued with someone who apparently doesn't understand that there exists other forms of male rape than just penetrative sex... 🤦‍♀️ )

 

[Deleted member 11413]

Great important thread and a good read, thanks a lot for taking the time to write it.

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Thanks for making this thread. That OP is very well written.

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Thank you

No doubt. I just couldn't help posting it because I saw it only recently and I found it very insightful.

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Absolutely, thanks for posting it, more people need to see it.

 

[Fugu]

A lot of the reason that researchers focus on the male perpetrator-female victim paradigm (including, admittedly, myself) is that that's what you're going to be looking at nine times out of ten. It's important to look at exceptions to the rule (male-on-male is by far the second largest category) but you have to do so in a way that doesn't lose sight of the rule. You can't treat sexual assault as a gender neutral problem because it's massively gendered.

With that out of the way, this is an issue that needs attention. The evidence that this issue needs attention is the ubiquity of prison rape jokes.

 

[Temascos]

Good opening to this thread, thanks for laying it out in detail.

One of the issues I've noticed is that when sexual violence against men is bought up, it's sometimes used as a cudgel to prevent us addressing sexual violence against women, a distraction technique. It's sickening when that plays out as it's used as a political tool and not something that person seriously intends to address. Our culture as a lot to answer for in silencing the emotions men feel (Except anger), and the shame of being a victim in any capacity.

 

[Deleted member 11413]

I know that in college there were a ton of flyers, seminars, etc. educating women on recognizing if they were raped, but I never saw any for men. Unfortunately far too many men and women don't see male rape as "possible" or "serious."
This is insidiously reinforced every time rape is discussed as a "woman's issue."

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Yup, and it's especially insidious because the better the data gathering becomes on this issue the more clear it is how women are perpetrators of a significant amount of abuse. So by treating sexual violence as a women's issue you end up ostracizing the vast number of male victims and unintentionally covering for the sizeable number of female perpetrators. It's bad all around.

Holy fuck, WHAT

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Yeah the media is terrible when it comes to reporting these incidents.

 

[Fugu]

Yup, and it's especially insidious because the better the data gathering becomes on this issue the more clear it is how women are perpetrators of a significant amount of abuse. So by treating sexual violence as a women's issue you end up ostracizing the vast number of male victims and unintentionally covering for the sizeable number of female perpetrators. It's bad all around.

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By treating sexual violence as anything but a women's issue you ignore the massive elephant in the room and become considerably less effective at preventing said violence as a result.

 

[Elderly Parrot]

Spoiler: Recent Movie Light Spoilers

Reading through Midsommer discussions def made me aware that some people really deemphasize male rape

 

[Deleted member 11413]

A lot of the reason that researchers focus on the male perpetrator-female victim paradigm (including, admittedly, myself) is that that's what you're going to be looking at nine times out of ten. It's important to look at exceptions to the rule (male-on-male is by far the second largest category) but you have to do so in a way that doesn't lose sight of the rule. You can't treat sexual assault as a gender neutral problem because it's massively gendered.

With that out of the way, this is an issue that needs attention. The evidence that this issue needs attention is the ubiquity of prison rape jokes.

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Look at evidence presented in the OP. The insistence than female perpetrated rape or abuse is exceedingly rare is inaccurate. If half of men are reporting female perpetrators, and rates of sexual violence against men are close to those against women, then the idea that female perpetrators are an anamoly is not supported by the data. And that's not even getting into female perpetrated rape/abuse against women and girls.

 

[SugarNoodles]

Yup, and it's especially insidious because the better the data gathering becomes on this issue the more clear it is how women are perpetrators of a significant amount of abuse. So by treating sexual violence as a women's issue you end up ostracizing the vast number of male victims and unintentionally covering for the sizeable number of female perpetrators. It's bad all around.

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It's important to examine the context surrounding this phenomenon, which basically comes down to the fact that women support women and men don't support men.

It's sometimes framed as "the people talking about sexual assault against women are ignoring male victims" but the reality is that the issue just isn't taken seriously by men.

 

[Fugu]

Look at evidence presented in the OP. The insistence than female perpetrated rape or abuse is exceedingly rare is inaccurate. If half of men are reporting female perpetrators, and rates of sexual violence against men are close to those against women, then the idea that female perpetrators are an anamoly is not supported by the data. And that's not even getting into female perpetrated rape/abuse against women and girls.

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That second proposition is not true. The rates for men and women are not similar.

 

[CopperPuppy]

It's important to examine the context surrounding this phenomenon, which basically comes down to the fact that women support women and men don't support men.

It's sometimes framed as "the people talking about sexual assault against women are ignoring male victims" but the reality is that the issue just isn't taken seriously by men.

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It's not taken seriously by anyone, that's the problem.

 

[Deleted member 11413]

It's important to examine the context surrounding this phenomenon, which basically comes down to the fact that women support women and men don't support men.

It's sometimes framed as "the people talking about sexual assault against women are ignoring male victims" but the reality is that the issue just isn't taken seriously by men.

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Right, I agree. Hence toxic masculinity. Though women take it less seriously as well, especially when it comes to assault of gay men or when the perpetrator is a woman

That second proposition is not true. The rates for men and women are not similar.

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The rate is 1 in 5 for women (though some studies suggest it may be closer to 1 in 4) and 1 in 6 for men (with severe underreporting). That is not similar to you?

 

[Pau]

Thank you for posting. Very informative write-up that I hope will educate more people. 100% right that media needs to change in how it frames or ignores it.

 

[CopperPuppy]

A lot of the reason that researchers focus on the male perpetrator-female victim paradigm (including, admittedly, myself) is that that's what you're going to be looking at nine times out of ten. It's important to look at exceptions to the rule (male-on-male is by far the second largest category) but you have to do so in a way that doesn't lose sight of the rule. You can't treat sexual assault as a gender neutral problem because it's massively gendered.

With that out of the way, this is an issue that needs attention. The evidence that this issue needs attention is the ubiquity of prison rape jokes.

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"Exception to the rule"? Jesus. The rates for both are similar and abuse is abuse. All forms need to be treated with the same severity.

 

[Pooh]

It's important to examine the context surrounding this phenomenon, which basically comes down to the fact that women support women and men don't support men.

It's sometimes framed as "the people talking about sexual assault against women are ignoring male victims" but the reality is that the issue just isn't taken seriously by men.

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I don't think that's accurate at all. The issue is neither men nor women support men on this issue. Neither men nor women take it seriously.

 

[Deleted member 11413]

"Exception to the rule"? Jesus. The rates for both are similar and abuse is abuse. All forms need to be treated with the same severity.

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Yeah I'm not sure how anyone could read the OP and conclude that the rates arent similar. Not the same, but similar.

 

[Fugu]

The rate is 1 in 5 for women (though some studies suggest it may be closer to 1 in 4) and 1 in 6 for men (with severe underreporting). That is not similar to you?

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Again, this isn't true. I live in Canada, where the ratio of women to men as victims of sexual assault is estimated to be somewhere in the vicinity of 7:1, if not higher. Estimates on the percentage of perpetrators of sexual assault who are men have gone as high as 99 percent.

I currently research this subject for a living. I know what I'm talking about. Yes, there are issues of underreporting, but those issues exist for all genders.

"Exception to the rule"? Jesus. The rates for both are similar and abuse is abuse. All forms need to be treated with the same severity.

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The rates for both are not similar.

 

[Deleted member 11413]

Again, this isn't true. I live in Canada, where the ratio of women to men as victims of sexual assault is estimated to be somewhere in the vicinity of 7:1, if not higher. Estimates on the percentage of perpetrators of sexual assault who are men have gone as high as 99 percent.

I currently research this subject for a living. I know what I'm talking about. Yes, there are issues of underreporting, but those issues exist for all genders.
The rates for both are not similar.

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Those estimates regarding perpetrators are flawed, a lot of that data comes from the late 90's and was gathered using definitions of rape that exclude male victims and female victims with female abusers. The paper I linked goes into depth about that, you should read it.

Also underreporting is an issue for both genders but is significantly more of an issue for men, as is denial about abuse. If 18% of men are abused and 25% of women are abused, and nearly 50% of men report a female perpetrator and a significant portion of women are also reporting female perpetrators, then the idea that 99% of perpetrators are men is impossible. A lot of that data is based around convictions for abuse, which isn't going to give you accurate data when women are not prosecuted for abuse. Which is why I posit that using surveys of victims is a better source of data than conviction rates.

 

[Pooh]

Yes, there are issues of underreporting, but those issues exist for all genders.

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Rates of female victims of rape are higher than men: "it's a women's issue, let's focus on the women"

Rates of male victims underreporting rape are higher than women: "it's a both genders issue"

 

[Frankie Williamson]

I've been raped by the very definition that if the roles were reversed I would have been arrested. This was many years ago in my early 20s at a house party. I was so drunk I have zero memories of the night. Everyone around me at the time told me she was very aggressive with me. I was so drunk to the point of needing help to get to my bed. She joined me in my room and we apparently had sex. I woke up next to her with no memory of it whatsoever. It felt gross and violating and even mentioning that to people over a decade ago was met with derision. Fuck the male rape myths.

 

[Pooh]

I've been raped by the very definition that if the roles were reversed I would have been arrested. This was many years ago in my early 20s at a house party. I was so drunk I have zero memories of the night. Everyone around me at the time told me she was very aggressive with me. I was so drunk to the point of needing help to get to my bed. She joined me in my room and we apparently had sex. I woke up next to her with no memory of it whatsoever. It felt gross and violating and even mentioning that to people over a decade ago was met with derision. Fuck the male rape myths.

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Sorry we can't focus on this, women get raped way more dude, it's a women's issue and you're not a woman :(
/s

 

[Fugu]

Those estimates regarding perpetrators are flawed, a lot of that data comes from the late 90's and was gathered using definitions of rape that exclude male victims and female victims with female abusers. The paper I linked goes into depth about that, you should read it.

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There are many studies exhibiting the lopsided percentage of victims of sexual assault being women that do not rely on such obviously flawed methodology. There are certainly big issues associated with painting an accurate picture of the sexual assault victim, but this is not one of them.


You aren't going to convince the people who have dedicated years to the subject by telling them that everything they thought they knew was wrong and here's a single paper that says so. Confront the existing research (i.e. put more than an afternoon into it) and then see where you're at.

 

[Croc Man]

BBC had an eye opening article, didn't even realise our laws are so bad.

"When a man has penetrative sex with a woman without her consent, that's rape. But what if a woman makes a man have penetrative sex with her, without his consent? That's not rape under the law of England and Wales".

Forced penetration: If a woman forces a man to have sex, is that rape?

When a man has sex with a woman without consent, that's rape. Should it be rape when a woman coerces a man into sex?

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Frankie Williamson]

PS, I'd like to add to the flip side, it absolutely did not affect my life the same way a violent rape would a woman. It felt shitty sure and it sucks that it happens, but I in NO WAY want to equate the two.

 

[CopperPuppy]

I'll be honest, I'm a little stunned that within 30 posts we've already had someone come in here, clearly not read the OP, call male victims "exceptions," and warn everyone not to treat sexual abuse as anything but a women's issue when both men and young boys and girls are abused at alarming rates.

Holy fuck.

 

[Pooh]

PS, I'd like to add to the flip side, it absolutely did not affect my life the same way a violent rape would a woman. It felt shitty sure and it sucks that it happens, but I in NO WAY want to equate the two.

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A lot of rapes are not "violent" because of alcohol/unconsciousness/etc. being involved. It's not a competition. There's no need to downplay what happened. Your experience is no less valid.

 

[Fugu]

Sorry we can't focus on this, women get raped way more dude, it's a women's issue and you're not a woman :(
/s

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That's not what I'm saying. What I'm actually saying is that male-victim sexual assault is a big issue but that you also shouldn't be ignorant about why a lot of people treat it as a highly gendered issue. It is.

 

[BringBackSonics]

Outstanding OP, This is definitely something that needs to have more of a light shone on it.

 

[Deleted member 11413]

PS, I'd like to add to the flip side, it absolutely did not affect my life the same way a violent rape would a woman. It felt shitty sure and it sucks that it happens, but I in NO WAY want to equate the two.

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I'm not going to tell you how to feel about your experiences, but a man being date raped by a woman and a woman being date raped by a man are equally traumatic. Rape is rape.

 

[Deleted member 11413]

There are many studies exhibiting the lopsided percentage of victims of sexual assault being women that do not rely on such obviously flawed methodology. There are certainly big issues associated with painting an accurate picture of the sexual assault victim, but this is not one of them.


You aren't going to convince the people who have dedicated years to the subject by telling them that everything they thought they knew was wrong and here's a single paper that says so. Confront the existing research (i.e. put more than an afternoon into it) and then see where you're at.

Click to shrink...

The paper is just a collection of various sources of data. Are you suggesting that national victim surveys are inaccurate? If so you need to provide a basis for that claim, because in the NCVS 46% of men are reporting assault or abuse by a female perpetrator.

 

[sgtnosboss]

I am part of this statistic, and it was a woman. I was 12 or 13, honestly I tried to block it from memory as best I could. I would not be able to even say it today if it wasn't for seeing a change in society to start talking about it. I agree that toxic masculinity held a huge part in me not talking about it, It was not till I was 26 did I start talking to close people about it, or online in anonymity.

Lord of Ostia thanks for bringing this forward

 

[Lakeside]

I'll be honest, I'm a little stunned that within 30 posts we've already had someone come in here, clearly not read the OP, call male victims "exceptions," and warn everyone not to treat sexual abuse as anything but a women's issue when both men and young boys and girls are abused at alarming rates.

Holy fuck.

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Someone that's allegedly doing this "for a loving" no less..

 

[Deleted member 11413]

BBC had an eye opening article, didn't even realise our laws are so bad.

"When a man has penetrative sex with a woman without her consent, that's rape. But what if a woman makes a man have penetrative sex with her, without his consent? That's not rape under the law of England and Wales".

Forced penetration: If a woman forces a man to have sex, is that rape?

When a man has sex with a woman without consent, that's rape. Should it be rape when a woman coerces a man into sex?

www.bbc.co.uk

Click to shrink...

Right, the way laws are written is a massive problem because a huge portion of male rape is not legally considered rape. Obviously the statistics that come from crime data are going to then reflect that bias.

 

[Deleted member 11413]

That's not what I'm saying. What I'm actually saying is that male-victim sexual assault is a big issue but that you also shouldn't be ignorant about why a lot of people treat it as a highly gendered issue. It is.

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I mean I made a thread about how male rape myths are propagated and then you came into the thread to further propagate male rape myths.

 

[PlanetSmasher]

Toxic masculinity is a huge reason why male rape/abuse is underreported. Probably the biggest factor actually. I think this issue is the best example of how toxic masculinity harms men.

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It is. I spent half my life not talking about my assault because the first person I tried to tell about what happened responded by going "she's hot, what are you, gay?" while I was in the middle of having a panic attack.

So I spent basically half my life trying to block out the fact I was assaulted because of toxic masculinity. That shit creeps into your brain and builds a damn house there. It was only because of the MeToo explosion that I was finally able to confront it and confront what I had been doing to myself but the trauma still pretty irreparably damaged my sexual maturation and made it almost impossible for me to feel real attraction to other people.

 

[Fugu]

I mean I made a thread about how male rape myths are propagated and then you came into the thread to further propagate male rape myths.

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That men are sexually assaulted at a rate far less than women is not a rape myth. That the typical case involves a man perpetrator and a woman victim is not a rape myth. That part of my post was intended to address why this is treated as an issue mostly affecting women.

I am not downplaying the importance and gravity of men being victims of sexual assault in any way. I am pointing out that the highly gendered approach to dealing with sexual violence - approaches that assume that the victim is a woman - exist for a reason.

 

[sgtnosboss]

So I spent basically half my life trying to block out the fact I was assaulted because of toxic masculinity. That shit creeps into your brain and builds a damn house there. It was only because of the MeToo explosion that I was finally able to confront it and confront what I had been doing to myself

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Not half my life, but you and me both on what you were saying.

 

[Deleted member 11413]

It is. I spent half my life not talking about my assault because the first person I tried to tell about what happened responded by going "she's hot, what are you, gay?" while I was in the middle of having a panic attack.

So I spent basically half my life trying to block out the fact I was assaulted because of toxic masculinity. That shit creeps into your brain and builds a damn house there. It was only because of the MeToo explosion that I was finally able to confront it and confront what I had been doing to myself but the trauma still pretty irreparably damaged my sexual maturation and made it almost impossible for me to feel real attraction to other people.

Click to shrink...

I'm really sorry that this happened to you. You are not alone, denial and repression of sexual trauma by men is incredibly common. Have you been to therapy or tried a support group?

 

[LegendofJoe]

I had a similar date rape situation happen to me twice in college. I was okay with it on one occasion because I at least knew her and likely would have been willing if I had been sober, but the other time it happened it was with a stranger and I would not have slept with her had I been sober.

I learned an important lesson that if you're going to be incapacitated it's vital that you have someone around that is both able and willing to look out for you. I stopped a rape from happening less than a year later after learning that lesson.

 

[Commedieu]

people that make light of male rape are the same people that get banned in Teacher student rape threads. Morons.

Anyone that is a critical thinker knows men get raped. Boys at an early age know to keep away from certain adults. I'm sure girls have the same experience. Esp if you're growing up at an all boys/all girls school. I remember we had a teacher, and it would be a known joke to stay away from him because he'd rape you. One kid who said that he did touch him was made fun of for being gay. This is like 6th grade. Later on in life, yep, it was true. He got busted and got a few friends of mine.


Toxic masculinity is a large part of why male victims have trouble coming forward.

 

[PlanetSmasher]

I'm really sorry that this happened to you. You are not alone, denial and repression of sexual trauma by men is incredibly common. Have you been to therapy or tried a support group?

Click to shrink...

Yup. Plenty of therapy, but being able to talk to someone about it doesn't change the fact that the trauma pretty much permanently altered my brain chemistry. It sucks.