CAAApitalism: The Successful Failure Of Videogames (The Jimquisition)

Jul 25, 2018
2,712
try reading it again, bonus points if you understand the point of bringing up a game released in 1997
All you said about the 1997 game you cherry picked was asking if there were layoffs. Do you dispute that costs have gone up? Even that cherry picked example, which was apparently the most expensive game ever at the time, would be an average or even perhaps a cheap budget today, compared to some games.
 
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Oct 27, 2017
2,404
Well, Capitalism is like a cat kept in a house with seemingly unlimited food supply. Some cats will grow into a happy but unhealthy chungus, some cats are going to eat to death. Communism is like a hungry pack of wolves sharing their prey equally, with some wolves being more equal than others.
 
Feb 12, 2019
21
All you said about the 1997 game you cherry picked was asking if there were layoffs. Do you dispute that costs have gone up? Even that cherry picked example, which was apparently the most expensive game ever at the time, would be an average or even perhaps a cheap budget today, compared to some games.
I am going to go back here:
he just comes to the Jimquisition threads to shit on it every week. I don't particularly mind, since he does a great job signal boosting these threads that he seems to despise so much.
give me a better post to debate on, because for whatever reason, you do not understand what i am saying, or even trying to state what your point is.

costs have no really gone up, (and din't the video pointed out the total costs for EA went down?) if you want me to state that, and it has nothing to do with cherry picking.
 
Jul 25, 2018
2,712
I am going to go back here:

give me a better post to debate on, because for whatever reason, you do not understand what i am saying, or even trying to state what your point is.

costs have no really gone up, if you want me to state that, and it has nothing to do with cherry picking.
Costs haven't gone up? LOL. Your own post literally showed the cost of games going up!!! Is this your desire to avoid reality or is it simply bad faith arguing? Whichever it is, I think we're done here.
 
Feb 12, 2019
21
Costs haven't gone up? LOL. Your own post literally showed the cost of games going up!!! Is this your desire to avoid reality or is it simply bad faith arguing? Whichever it is, I think we're done here.
Yes we are done here, since you do not even know what litterally means, and I think others have chimed in as well to show you are the issue here. I can't help that my point is too complex to grasp. Given this one liner here, you proved you are unable to understand it and unwliing to have a worthwhile conversation.
 
Jul 25, 2018
2,712
Yes we are done here, since you do not even know what litterally means, and I think others have chimed in as well to show you are the issue here. I can't help that my point is too complex to grasp. Given this one liner here, you proved you are unable to understand it and unwliing to have a worthwhile conversation.
In your opening post you claimed (inflation adjusted) development costs:

1997 - FFVII $63M ("at the time one of the most expensive video game projects ever" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Fantasy_VII#Development )
2009 - MW2 $58M
2013 - GTAV $148M
and you mentioned Destiny too, which I'm sure is up there.

Then you claimed that costs haven't gone up. WTF. Is 148 > 63? That's a bigger number, yes? So... how do you explain your laughable claim that costs haven't gone up, when your own post and countless other sources makes a fool of you?
 
Feb 12, 2019
21
In your opening post you claimed (inflation adjusted) development costs:

1997 - FFVII $63M ("at the time one of the most expensive video game projects ever" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Fantasy_VII#Development )
2009 - MW2 $58M
2013 - GTAV $148M
and you mentioned Destiny too, which I'm sure is up there.

Then you claimed that costs haven't gone up. WTF. Is 148 > 63? That's a bigger number, yes? So... how do you explain your laughable claim that costs haven't gone up, when your own post makes a fool of you?
read again, I am not babying you due to you being an issue.
Well more like think, ill give you a tip, its 2019, that is 1997, or you can go back to my post that spells it out.
 
Feb 12, 2019
21
And that's how you react when your "argument" is exposed.
Nope, that is how you act when you can't have a meaningful conversion with someone, go back and read my post, I am not going to spoonfeed you again. Remember a lot of people said you are an issue, so I have no interest in babying you.

When you make an effort to read and think, ill give you the same respect.
I guess you wanted to have the last word since you said "we are done" and my reply was " you do not understand because this is too complex for you?" you keep proving it.
 
Aug 23, 2018
944
Aside from thousands of job losses, unless the cost to make games somehow plunges, nothing would change except you'd have less games being made. I agree indies are great, and they have raised their prices from a typical launch price of $10-$15 a decade ago to $20-$40 now, which is a huge % increase, whereas AAA games stayed the same price. But sure, let's throw all common sense and the most basic knowledge of business out the window and hope for a crash. Awesome.
I love how you're always providing actual facts in these discussions.

Ironic to see people gripe about the unrealism of shareholder hoping for perpetual growth while expecting more and more ambitious games at the same $60 pricepoint that's been in place for over a decade.
 
Feb 12, 2019
21
I love how you're always providing actual facts in these discussions.

Ironic to see people gripe about the unrealism of shareholder hoping for perpetual growth while expecting more and more ambitious games at the same $60 pricepoint that's been in place for over a decade.
You do understand tech can assist in making video games right? and costs are down because for most part they reuse content, like fifa having little variance, and is a big factor with EA's total costs going down. Sheep here is not really giving much facts on this issue so I got no clue where you are coming from. But I guess you are allergic to facts because you hate jim or something and he posted it in his video.

I guess you missed one of my posts that was trying explain a few things with more detailed facts then that, but lets ignore it because it does not suit your narrative.

Thinking... why did blizzard lay off workers despite having a growing profit? because it was not enough, and wanted to get rid of costs to increase profit margins. We do not need loot boxes to fight this imaginary argument of "but development costs are skyrocketing" when it isn't true.

I do not understand the defending these explotive prataices, I really don't. Are these game companies paying you to speak on their behalf?
 
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Aug 23, 2018
944
You do understand tech can assist in making video games right? and costs are down because for most part they reuse content, like fifa having little variance, and is a big factor with EA's costs going down. Sheep here is not really giving much facts on this issue so I got no clue where you are coming from.

I guess you missed one of my posts that was trying explain a few things with more detailed facts then that, but lets ignore it because it does not suit your narrative.

Nah. You can make your process more efficient. You can reuse assets in some cases. But cost of everything else - including the salaries of the developers making the games and marketing costs continue to go up.
Interesting that you mention FIFA as an example of series that 'has little variance'. EA added a female football mode, free world cup updates, added the fully fleshed out 'Journey' story mode and have shelled out millions of dollars for the Champions League license.

Game still sold for the same $60 FIFA 11 PS3 sold for.
 
Jul 25, 2018
2,712
You do understand tech can assist in making video games right? and costs are down because for most part they reuse content, like fifa having little variance, and is a big factor with EA's costs going down. Sheep here is not really giving much facts on this issue so I got no clue where you are coming from.

I guess you missed one of my posts that was trying explain a few things with more detailed facts then that, but lets ignore it because it does not suit your narrative.
We all saw your post where you showed that dev costs have risen over the years, followed by your later post where you claimed they hadn't.

As I said, there are countless sources to show they have gone up. I find it hard to believe that people in 2019 still deny this basic obvious fact, and I have to give you the benefit of the doubt that you're deliberately arguing in bad faith. Just in case, here's one.

https://www.raphkoster.com/2018/01/17/the-cost-of-games/
 
Feb 12, 2019
21
We all saw your post where you showed that dev costs have risen over the years, followed by your later post where you claimed they hadn't.

As I said, there are countless sources to show they have gone up. I find it hard to believe that people in 2019 still deny this basic obvious fact, and I have to give you the benefit of the doubt that you're deliberately arguing in bad faith. Just in case, here's one.

https://www.raphkoster.com/2018/01/17/the-cost-of-games/
Nah. You can make your process more efficient. You can reuse assets in some cases. But cost of everything else - including the salaries of the developers making the games and marketing costs continue to go up.
Interesting that you mention FIFA as an example of series that 'has little variance'. EA added a female football mode, free world cup updates, added the fully fleshed out 'Journey' story mode and have shelled out millions of dollars for the Champions League license.

Game still sold for the same $60 FIFA 11 PS3 sold for.
i like my final sentence in that quote from me answered.
 
This is an interesting topic and as an independent small company I can't blame publishers. If I don't sell more than I did last year I consider that a failure, it only makes sense. You always want to do better and better. You invest, in my case in better equipment, experiment with new technologies expecting to profit better from it and make more money. When you do it at the expense of others you have a problem. I treat my employees fairly and compensate them accordingly, always.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,473
Canada
What's really fucking sad about some posts here is the attitude that Business is God and it's exempt from the inconveniences of ethics and morality.
Capitalism/the price system is the biggest religion in the world by the number of devotees. And will just as slavishly pretend it doesn't cause serious problems, if not moreso.

I'm sure there will be plenty of people ready to line up and tell this person who appears to have been just laid off or lost one or more valued co-worker so someone could squeeze more money out how wrong-headed he is for daring to critique such impeccable business logic.

Or is that only cool when you aren't forced to admit whose back you're stepping on to make that point?
 
Oct 30, 2017
881
Capitalism isn't the whole problem here, it's those of you who choose to consume and support bad practice. So many of you still throw your money at whatever you can. Just look at everyone who without hesitation jumped into Fallout 76 day 1 then came running to the forum to bitch abouy Bethesda's shady business practices even after there were rad flags littering the field.

Capitalism at least gives you the means to choose how support such things and a bunch of you cant even do that without shift blame to everyone but you.

Stop supporting and consuming these companies products if they're shit and full of ethical issues you cant stand by and support those that provide a high quality standard to their organization and games.
 
Feb 12, 2019
21
This is an interesting topic and as an independent small company I can't blame publishers. If I don't sell more than I did last year I consider that a failure, it only makes sense. You always want to do better and better. You invest, in my case in better equipment, experiment with new technologies expecting to profit better from it and make more money. When you do it at the expense of others you have a problem. I treat my employees fairly and compensate them accordingly, always.
we get this, we really do but there comes a point of saturation where you can't improve anymore, that is where we are at with some of these games so they retort to other means to show bigger profit margins. This is the point where caplism fails and needs to die ( I mean the business dies or something happens to it "bubble burst") and starts all over again because it is not a sustainable model, only short term or small scopes (as in small businesses that can't reach saturation) does it work
 
Jan 15, 2018
1,160
Capitalism isn't the whole problem here, it's those of you who choose to consume and support bad practice.
It's impossible to live in society and not be forced to engage with this system. Ok, you don't buy video games from AAA Publishers anymore.

Now, what about the big souless companies that make the food you eat? The transportation you need to use? The materials your home is made out of. The clothing you wear. The problem is a societal one and needs to be addressed at a societal level.
 
Oct 30, 2017
881
It's impossible to live in society and not be forced to engage with this system. Ok, you don't buy video games from AAA Publishers anymore.

Now, what about the big souless companies that make the food you eat? The transportation you need to use? The materials your home is made out of. The clothing you wear. The problem is a societal one and needs to be addressed at a societal level.
It applies to all areas. What needs to be addressed at a societal level that will fix the problem people have with these types of businesses that provide our services?

A free market allows for consumers to make decisions by supporting it or not. In an ideal setting business A skips out on the quality and treats their staff like shit. People dont support them and business B comes in, has a good track record for quality and treating staff well. If there is no business B then someone is missing out on a business opportunity worth millions. These exact scenarios happened post world war 2 when American business got their asses kicked by the Japanese who focused their efforts on quality within their businesses and focusing on the customer.

The problem that your highlighting is that your saying people have no choice when it comes to food and shelter etc... theres always other options, some you won't like or some that are more difficult to go with.

But in reality what's happening is people keep choosing business A no matter what because they've become dependent on their lifestyles and people now choose convenients and self indulgence over everything else. The biggest issue isn't that your forced to comply to society, it's that enough people believe that to be true. So I guess at the societal level its apathy that's the issue.

I'm getting out of scope here because my point was to address mainly video games. If we are getting into society as a whole, theres far more complex issues at work and would take far more analysis and effort to really dig into. I understand that when it comes to the whole picture it's not always as easy as the points I mentioned. However that conversation is not something I want to painfully type out back and forth over an era forum lol. Society needs work in many areas, but at least with video games not being a necessity, we have the power to influence by choosing how we support the industry.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
2,716
Even a broken clock is right two times a day; you give his rants too much credit.
While it's true that big publishers aim to make as much money as possible, that's just how capitalism work; every big company's goal is to make as much money as possible.

I'm not trying to defend exploitative practices, but maybe you should take a better look at who is the one talking: a guy who makes a living out of clickbait videos and outrage culture, masking himself as some kind of justice paladin.
He is obviously trying to exploit people too.
Can you be any more transparent?
 
Feb 6, 2019
61
What agenda is that
In this case, money and visibility.
the getrichquick agenda - clearly Jim doesn't personally believe in any sort of this nonsense, what are you naive? this is a bizzzzzniss

did i hit all the cues?
You forgot "I'm not able to have a real discussion but god am I so funny"
Never said he does not believe in it, but it's clear how he exaggerate everything to flame people and reap the benefits.
If you can see it, you are either a patron of his or just a naive person.
 
Feb 12, 2019
21
It applies to all areas. What needs to be addressed at a societal level that will fix the problem people have with these types of businesses that provide our services?

A free market allows for consumers to make decisions by supporting it or not. In an ideal setting business A skips out on the quality and treats their staff like shit. People dont support them and business B comes in, has a good track record for quality and treating staff well. If there is no business B then someone is missing out on a business opportunity worth millions. These exact scenarios happened post world war 2 when American business got their asses kicked by the Japanese who focused their efforts on quality within their businesses and focusing on the customer.

The problem that your highlighting is that your saying people have no choice when it comes to food and shelter etc... theres always other options, some you won't like or some that are more difficult to go with.

But in reality what's happening is people keep choosing business A no matter what because they've become dependent on their lifestyles and people now choose convenients and self indulgence over everything else. The biggest issue isn't that your forced to comply to society, it's that enough people believe that to be true. So I guess at the societal level its apathy that's the issue.

I'm getting out of scope here because my point was to address mainly video games. If we are getting into society as a whole, theres far more complex issues at work and would take far more analysis and effort to really dig into. I understand that when it comes to the whole picture it's not always as easy as the points I mentioned. However that conversation is not something I want to painfully type out back and forth over an era forum lol. Society needs work in many areas, but at least with video games not being a necessity, we have the power to influence by choosing how we support the industry.
There is blind loyalty and sunken cost fallacies to consider. Like for example, Apex Legends. It is skins only and can look appealing.
Then after you are hooked, they could release skins with much lower rates or start leaking p2w and other things.
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,596
In this case, money and visibility.

You forgot "I'm not able to have a real discussion but god am I so funny"
Never said he does not believe in it, but it's clear how he exaggerate everything to flame people and reap the benefits.
If you can see it, you are either a patron of his or just a naive person.
What benefits? As far as I can see, more people complain about him than watch him and he doesn't run ads on the Jimquisition so surely it's a horrible business idea to be so abrasive.
 
Feb 6, 2019
61
What benefits? As far as I can see, more people complain about him than watch him and he doesn't run ads on the Jimquisition so surely it's a horrible business idea to be so abrasive.
His Patreon is currently sitting at $12,994 per month.
Being so criticized is another indicator of his success I guess, He makes a living out of being a controversial Youtube personality after all.

Think about South Park, how can a cartoon not aimed at kids be succesful?
It's the same thing, he has a particular, high returning target, and rides on that.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,774
In this case, money and visibility.

You forgot "I'm not able to have a real discussion but god am I so funny"
Never said he does not believe in it, but it's clear how he exaggerate everything to flame people and reap the benefits.
If you can see it, you are either a patron of his or just a naive person.
because ad hominem is now a valid form of critique? you're too busy pointing out how much of a hypocrite he is, while ignoring the actual topic of the thread.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,141
So the standard people that cant usually attack his arguments now attack him making a livelihood as the reason why he is wrong?

This smells perilously like the arguments about how when Game Reviewers score a game people like badly, its just for clicks. Those arguments were unacceptable then and are still now..
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,716
because ad hominem is now a valid form of critique? you're too busy pointing out how much of a hypocrite he is, while ignoring the actual topic of the thread.
So the standard people that cant usually attack his arguments now attack him making a livelihood as the reason why he is wrong?

This smells perilously like the arguments about how when Game Reviewers score a game people like badly, its just for clicks. Those arguments were unacceptable then and are still now..
Say louder for the people in the back!
 
Feb 6, 2019
61
User Banned (2 Days): Antagonizing other members and driving thread derailment
because ad hominem is now a valid form of critique? you're too busy pointing out how much of a hypocrite he is, while ignoring the actual topic of the thread.
Funny, I was about to say the same thing to you.
Should I quote all your derailing comments here?