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California passes "Fair Pay to Play Act" bill, which would make it possible for college athletes to accept endorsement money

Drax

Oregon tag
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,456
NCAA kicking them out would jumpstart the end of the NCAA. Colleges don't need the NCAA and the power 5 could easily create their own thing. They could bowl ban Californian teams I guess but you will still get plenty of exposure/endorsements without that.
they could, but the ncaa spokeman in this case was from Ohio State.
 

Kill3r7

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,326
The NCAA bringing this to court would be laughable considering the athletes have never entered a collective bargaining agreement with the NCAA, and as they are ostensibly bound by state and federal laws, not the other way around.

If the NCAA wouldn't nuke the UNC, USC, or Penn State individual sports programs after egregious violations, they aren't going to suddenly tell all of Stanford, Berkeley, and UCLA to kick rocks.
What does that have to do with the constitutionality of the law? The argument is that the law would violate the commerce clause.
 

Keasar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,519
Skövde, Sweden
Is this where the University Sport Clubs declare themselves independent city states and start a civil war against the Californian government?

"It was about sports rights!"
 

Chikor

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,806
The NCAA bringing this to court would be laughable considering the athletes have never entered a collective bargaining agreement with the NCAA, and as they are ostensibly bound by state and federal laws, not the other way around.

If the NCAA wouldn't nuke the UNC, USC, or Penn State individual sports programs after egregious violations, they aren't going to suddenly tell all of Stanford, Berkeley, and UCLA to kick rocks.
The NCAA doesn't sue people, if JT Daniels got a modeling gig tomorrow, no law is being broken. What the NCAA does is make sure no other programs will play USC if they start play him.
I have not idea why it's legal, but I have no idea why not paying college athletes is legal either.

I think it will be interesting to see how this plays out if California pass that law and the NCAA decide to stand fast against it and sanction players. Though I can see the NCAA relenting a bit here, though obviously, this whole body is gonna have to be burned to the ground before college athletes can properly be compensated.
 

CNoodles

Member
Mar 7, 2019
139
And then you get injured, lose your scholarship, and the school throws you aside like so much refuse. You of course can't hold a real job for spending money or pursue other cultured interests during the school year because of the time and travel commitment. Or more commonly, you squeeze through with a C- average taking joke level classes and have no real marketable skills or savings when you don't win the lottery of making it pro.
So are you saying if an athlete gets injured then it is all over for them? If they get injured, they can take out student loans to pay for college just like the rest. If they have a C- average and take joke classes then the joke is on them. Many people including myself have worked 40+ hours a week and still graduated with a 3.5 and are a success in the real world. A lot of athletes need to be smarter and take full advantage of the full ride they are given. Playing college football and only thinking you are going to go pro and nothing else is a game only fools play.
 

samoyed

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,974
If they get injured, they can take out student loans to pay for college just like the rest. If they have a C- average and take joke classes then the joke is on them. Many people including myself have worked 40+ hours a week and still graduated with a 3.5 and are a success in the real world.
Why does this sound like "bootstraps"?
 

CNoodles

Member
Mar 7, 2019
139
Why does this sound like "bootstraps"?
Maybe cleat-straps ;). You are acting like these athletes are getting nothing, which is a huge understatement. Athletes are getting full rides to some of the most prestiges schools in the country. A degree from these school can and will get you places. At the end of the day it is all about prioritizing. You know there are a lot of athletes that are successful in academics and sports, you do not have to neglect one to be successful in the other.
 

samoyed

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,974
Maybe cleat-straps ;). You are acting like these athletes are getting nothing, which is a huge understatement. Athletes are getting full rides to some of the most prestiges schools in the country. A degree from these school can and will get you places. At the end of the day it is all about prioritizing. You know there are a lot of athletes that are successful in academics and sports, you do not have to neglect one to be successful in the other.
They're getting full rides they can't fully take advantage of because they're pushed to spend their time training and offered blow-off courses and easy grades to meet some arbitrary educational standard. The fact that there are successful people in both academics and sports is just another bootstraps argument. It is philosophically the same argument as "there are people who are successful who come from poor families, the ones that didn't become successful just didn't work hard enough, you do not have to let your own poverty drag you down". Some people making it doesn't mean every one can make it.
 

CNoodles

Member
Mar 7, 2019
139
They're getting full rides they can't fully take advantage of because they're pushed to spend their time training and offered blow-off courses and easy grades to meet some arbitrary educational standard. The fact that there are successful people in both academics and sports is just another bootstraps argument. It is philosophically the same argument as "there are people who are successful who come from poor families, the ones that didn't become successful just didn't work hard enough, you do not have to let your own poverty drag you down". Some people making it doesn't mean every one can make it.
And why can't they take full advantage? Sorry, but they decide what major and classes they take. If they decide to take useless classes then I am pretty sure they know that they are playing the football lottery. Also sorry but your philosophical argument is horrible. Most families in poverty have absolutely no resources to get out of it. Athletes have all the resources in the world once they hit college to succeed. You are acting like academia is some mystical being that nobody can overcome if they have responsibilities other than academia. Sorry to tell ya but if you put in the time to study, you will always see results, and if you have trouble guess what, big colleges have so many resource to help you succeed.
 

samoyed

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,974
And why can't they take full advantage?
because they're pushed to spend their time training and offered blow-off courses and easy grades to meet some arbitrary educational standard
Early data from my ongoing research on the academic experiences of black Division I football and men’s basketball players shows that they spend three times as many hours per week on athletics as they do on academics. On average, the players spend more than 25 hours on sports-related activities other than games, such as practice, workouts, general team meetings, film sessions and travel. On the other hand, the player spend less than eight hours on academics outside of class, such as writing papers, studying, getting tutored or working on group projects. This imbalance is institutionally constructed and perpetuated. Perhaps most disturbingly, the student-athletes I surveyed perceive this lopsided situation as “normal.”

Some may argue that the players should be satisfied with the fact that their scholarships enable them to reap the benefits of a college education. The problem with that argument is that college athletes aren’t able to fully actualize their identities as students to the same degree as their classmates. College sports is just too demanding, and universities do not make any special concessions for athletes’ additional time commitments.
The reality is most football and men’s basketball players underperform academically and routinely graduate at lower rates than “other student-athletes, black non-athletes and undergraduates in general.”

Recent academic scandals – from fraudulent classes to inappropriate tutor support and administrative cover-ups – reveal that a sports-first mentality permeates college campuses
Recently, 2017 Heisman runner-up, Bryce Love, drew criticism for “setting a bad precedent” for choosing to attend summer classes instead of Stanford’s media day.

Almost 60 percent of participants in my current national research study find it difficult or very difficult to balance sports and academics – from the moment they set foot on campus until graduation, if they graduate at all. Considering the fact that less than 2 percent of college football players get into the National Football League, and only 1.2 percent of college basketball players get drafted into the National Basketball Association, the reality is that many college athletes will never see a payoff in professional sports. But the real tragedy is that – having devoted so much time to sports instead of their studies – they won’t really get to see their college education pay off, either.
 

wisdom0wl

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
3,671
Honestly, I hope the NCAA burns to the ground.

And here's to hoping we snipe all the talent because the athletes can actually get properly compensated
 

Landy828

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,063
Clemson, SC
Good.

Is there a set pay grade though?

It wouldn't be fair if richer schools can pay players more, then other schools/teams would never have a chance at a championship.
 

Chikor

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,806
Good.

Is there a set pay grade though?

It wouldn't be fair if richer schools can pay players more, then other schools/teams would never have a chance at a championship.
Wow, can you imagine if college football gets dominated by the big school and fuck the small programs?
It sounds awful.

And on a more serious note, if the schools are concerned about parity and such, they should get a CBA with the athletes. You don't just decide that you're gonna all limit pay because you want to. I mean, the NCAA does that already, but I think they shouldn't be allowed to.
 
Nov 2, 2017
521
And why can't they take full advantage?
Because being an athlete on a football scholarship is a fucking full-time job. They're not spending an hour or two here and there outside of their schooling to do football stuff, their day is mostly football. They're not taking an easy schedule because they don't want to take anything harder, but because anything more rigorous would require time that they don't have because it's monopolized by their athletic career. And if they tried to to prioritize the academics over the athletics, they'd end up losing their scholarship and thus their ability to do the academic side.

Some people do manage both, but the way they do it is, by and large, by putting in a herculean amount of effort, something that's not sustainable or even possible across the board.

"Paying" football players with an academic scholarship is the equivalent of paying West Virginia coal miners in Disneyland vouchers.
 

Landy828

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,063
Clemson, SC
Wow, can you imagine if college football gets dominated by the big school and fuck the small programs?
It sounds awful.

And on a more serious note, if the schools are concerned about parity and such, they should get a CBA with the athletes. You don't just decide that you're gonna all limit pay because you want to. I mean, the NCAA does that already, but I think they shouldn't be allowed to.
My own school, and the current National Champion, isn't the richest school there is. There should be some kind of limit. Otherwise you could just buy every 5 Star you want without anyone else ever having a chance. One thing is for sure, Southern Cal would have a chance again. Pretty sure they're in the top 20 richest schools.
 

Chikor

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,806
My own school, and the current National Champion, isn't the richest school there is. There should be some kind of limit. Otherwise you could just buy every 5 Star you want without anyone else ever having a chance. One thing is for sure, Southern Cal would have a chance again. Pretty sure they're in the top 20 richest schools.
Come on, you're in a power five conference, don't tell me it's news to you that college football is specifically designed to fuck small programs.
And I donno, I think you can have 20 rich schools fighting between each other even if you pay your players (because that what we got right now, there is no poor program that's gonna make wave). It might be different schools, I don't know, but I don't think any of that is a good enough reason to not pay players or severely limit what they can make.

p.s.
Fuck Bama.
I am contractually obliged to say that every 5 NCAAF posts.
 

samoyed

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,974
I'm confused by this exchange, I figure the players generate the revenue so they would get paid out of that regardless of where they go.

Is the fear that the richer schools would attract better talent due to the school's academic offerings or facilities?
 

Complicated

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,317
This is the very least they can do, but it's a good first step. Let players take money from people who want to give it to them for their services. Whether that's getting a Nike shoe contract a few years early for someone like Zion Williamson, or a D2 college quarterback who's probably not going pro giving private lessons in his school's community by leveraging his local celebrity status or relationships with local high schools. It's no different than some math major on scholarship making money by tutoring, and it's ridiculous it was ever disallowed.
 

Chikor

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,806

Tim Tebow sounds really...what's the word...shitty.
Ahhh yes, we must preserve the sanctity and purity of college football.



Get bent, you are rich and you won't have any problems making money moving forward, you don't get to tell poor kids they need to languish in poverty so you can feel good about your time in Florida.

His takes are as bad as his deep post pass attempts.
 

metalslimer

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
4,147
Lol fuck the NCAA. No matter what argument they have against paying athletes it would fail miserably trying to argue against this

Edit: Also fuck that dumbass tebow. It's hilarious watching the usual white athletes that would have been able to live on mom and dads teat even if they didnt make it somewhere else complain that poor and usually PoC athletes are selfish for wanting to have something to make money and not end up on the damn streets after college.
 

shira

Community Resetter
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,411

CNoodles

Member
Mar 7, 2019
139
Correlation does not imply causation and why is her surveys open for the public to take online? If you argued that athletes are unprepared for college because grade school failed them by just passing them through the system then I would agree with you. Athletes have responsibilities, just like anyone else going to school and it is true some are not going to do good while other succeed, but I think that is the case for everybody. You also have to factor in that athletes are going to big colleges for their athletic skills not academic ones. Some can be stupid as they come academic wise but that is our countries school systems fault for not preparing them and of course someone not prepared for college is not going to excel. I will meet you half way and say if college was free then I would not care if they got paid but the fact remains that an athlete from a big colleges are getting paid up to $100,000 per year with all the things they get.
 

Chikor

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,806
Correlation does not imply causation and why is her surveys open for the public to take online? If you argued that athletes are unprepared for college because grade school failed them by just passing them through the system then I would agree with you. Athletes have responsibilities, just like anyone else going to school and it is true some are not going to do good while other succeed, but I think that is the case for everybody. You also have to factor in that athletes are going to big colleges for their athletic skills not academic ones. Some can be stupid as they come academic wise but that is our countries school systems fault for not preparing them and of course someone not prepared for college is not going to excel. I will meet you half way and say if college was free then I would not care if they got paid but the fact remains that an athlete from a big colleges are getting paid up to $100,000 per year with all the things they get.
How much money do you think the top QB recruit in the county would have made if the schools have not colluded to not pay athletes?
And why do you think he should not get that money?
 

SinkFla

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,795
Pensacola, Fl
I'm not a sports fan at all so my knowledge on the subject isn't much but I don't see anything wrong with this. Why shouldn't they profit from what they work their asses off for when the rich make further bank from their achievements?

Of course Academics should also be stressed. My stepson plays sports (basketball in middle school lol) and if kids fuck up their grades and behavior in school they get punished by being benched for games or in extreme cases kicked off (very rare). It honestly would give kids even more of an incentive to be successful in school lol.
 

samoyed

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,974
You also have to factor in that athletes are going to big colleges for their athletic skills not academic ones.
Yes, I know. But then are they really able to get the most out of a college degree if they don't even meet the basic requirements? We also can't assume any athlete at a college which would cost a non-athlete $100,000 would be able to get a $100,000 education out of it, especially if they have to spend time doing remedial high-school level courses to "catch up" to the basic level.

When I was in college I attended a class with people who could barely write a coherent one page essay. I had no idea if they were athletes or not, but they were clearly not getting as much out of that class as I was.
 

Pillowtalk

Member
Oct 10, 2018
257
Some people are saying that the schools are doing these kids a favor by giving them scholarships, and that should be enough. I'm just curious how much profit do these schools make from these athletes and how much are the 4 year scholarships that are given to them. How lopsided is it, if any, and how much.
 
Oct 28, 2017
7,484


We've got a handful of people talking out of their ass in regards to this monumentally important issue and I'd strongly recommend they watch this documentary.

What the NCAA has done is nothing short of a plantation system that specifically exploits poor kids. It's not only ethically onerous, it's downright despicable.

Fucking billions upon billions generated by the literal sweat and blood of these kids and some of them don't even have enough to eat while in school.

Fuck the NCAA.
 
Last edited:
Oct 28, 2017
7,484
Some people are saying that the schools are doing these kids a favor by giving them scholarships, and that should be enough. I'm just curious how much profit do these schools make from these athletes and how much are the 4 year scholarships that are given to them. How lopsided is it, if any, and how much.
The current system as it exists generates billions in revenue for schools. It's a huge and profitable business that has been rigged to literally turn college athletes into scholarship slaves.

Those scholarships are a fucking pittance in comparison to the revenue these kids generate, especially in key sports like football, basketball, etc.
 

BeatnikGunso

Member
Oct 25, 2017
431


We've got a handful of people talking out of their ass in regards to this monumentally important issue and I'd strongly recommend they watch this documentary.

What the NAACP has done is nothing short of a plantation system that specifically exploits poor kids. It's not only ethically onerous, it's downright despicable.

Fucking billions upon billions generated by the literal sweat and blood of these kids and some of them don't even have enough to eat while in school.

Fuck the NAACP.
do you mean the ncaa lol?
 

Rellyrell28

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
12,196


We've got a handful of people talking out of their ass in regards to this monumentally important issue and I'd strongly recommend they watch this documentary.

What the NAACP has done is nothing short of a plantation system that specifically exploits poor kids. It's not only ethically onerous, it's downright despicable.

Fucking billions upon billions generated by the literal sweat and blood of these kids and some of them don't even have enough to eat while in school.

Fuck the NAACP.
Bruh 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

Oh and Tebow can eat a dick
 

CNoodles

Member
Mar 7, 2019
139
Yes, I know. But then are they really able to get the most out of a college degree if they don't even meet the basic requirements? We also can't assume any athlete at a college which would cost a non-athlete $100,000 would be able to get a $100,000 education out of it, especially if they have to spend time doing remedial high-school level courses to "catch up" to the basic level.

When I was in college I attended a class with people who could barely write a coherent one page essay. I had no idea if they were athletes or not, but they were clearly not getting as much out of that class as I was.
I think this really comes down to a whole new issue, that this country cares more about entertainment in sports then education. The $100,000 per year could be off a little but I was factoring everything they get like dorms, food, tuition, personal trainers, dietitians, shoes, suits, gifts like xboxes and watches. Listen, I understand where everyone coming from. I hate the fact that there are chairmen and coaches making millions of dollars while tuition goes up every year and college professors pay stays the same, it is a sad situation. I guess we can both agree that capitalism just plain sucks.
 

samoyed

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,974
I think this really comes down to a whole new issue, that this country cares more about entertainment in sports then education.
My assumption is that the sports industry is not going to be more profitable than education any time soon. So as long as people throw more money at athletes, the athletes should at least get paid and not their managers or coaches or the school administration or whoever else.

I guess we can both agree that capitalism just plain sucks.
Yeah I won't disagree with you here.