1. Morrigan

    Morrigan
    Armoring Moderator

    You are misreading his intent. He is saying that people are downplaying the racism of the joke and is sadly unsurprised at that fact, not agreeing with this downplaying.
     
  2. GestaltGaz

    GestaltGaz
    Member

    Then I apologise to laughing banana. The dismissive posters in this thread are really offensive to me, 'just a bad joke not racist.' 'another attack by the alt-right'. They are not aware of or do not care about indigenous Australian hurt.
     
  3. So what's the resolution here, folks? We waiting for the parties he offended with his bad joke to say it's all good now? Are we to be mad at him in perpetuity until then? Who is the voice for the offended parties to state he's good2go or not?
     
  4. Thisman

    Thisman
    Banned Member

    People can’t use the alt right excuse for this because it’s joe Williams who made this public. All that Trevor Noah has to do is apologize and let things take a natural course of punishment, redemption etc and he still has not which is disappointing. It would be understandable if his network reprimands him especially if he refuses to apologize
     
  5. Morrigan

    Morrigan
    Armoring Moderator

    I understand. It's frustrating because of the recent events, there's a lot of misinformation going around. I understand if people accept (or don't) his apology, but while the alt-right did brigade several comedians lately, they aren't responsible for this criticism and the OP makes that clear (though they took advantage of it, unfortunately). Sigh.
     
  6. Grug

    Grug
    Member

    As an Australian I’m trying to think how I would be able to dismiss “damn, how ugly are African American women” on account of geographical distance...

    Nope.
     
  7. SABO.

    SABO.
    Member

    Well they'll probably have him on the Project when he's down here for his (pretty much sold out) shows. It'll be brought up, he'll again reiterate how apologetic he is and then Waleed Aly will make some shitty commentary.
     
  8. Principate

    Principate
    Member

    This sounds like a stupid question. Lets say he was white and the and he offended black Americans, french, british what have you . Would you really be asking these questions? This isn't some new uncharted waters here.
     
  9. choodi

    choodi
    Member

    The resolution is for people to stop blaming the alt-right, stop saying the joke is not racist and to let people express their anger and disappointment.

    As far as I can see, Trevor Noah has expressed regret and, by making contact with Joe Williams to arrange another visit to an Indigenous community to learn why his joke was awful and cruel, is doing a good job of making amends.

    No one in this thread is asking for him to be fired and there are no alt-right moles here trying to generate "outrage". There are, however, a bunch of people being very dismissive of the rightful calls from affected people to boycott his shows IN AUSTRALIA.
     
  10. Deleted member 42221

    Deleted member 42221
    User requested account closure Member

    Wow, this thread is full of Americans acting like assholes and ignoring any basic respect for Indigenous Australians...

    Sounds like a certain someone's comedy.

    NO, the people mad at this aren't alt-right concern trolls.

    They are people who are sick of Indigenous Australians being mocked and used as punchlines, locally and from people overseas.

    Show some goddamn respect.
     
  11. dimb

    dimb
    Member

    Feel free to point out any kind of public or wide reaching apology to the systematically marginalized and oppressed people he mocked, and not a tweet response to a single person years down the line with a "you're right". He never apologized or these tweets and news article wouldn't exist as they do.
     
  12. args

    args
    Member

    trevor noah isn't even funny
     
  13. darz1

    darz1
    Member

    Thank you. I mean ffs the joke was already offensive enough, but the people in here saying its not racist and its only alt right calling for a boycot and that we shouldnt tear down out allies are really being incredibly distespectful.

    I am an Aboriginal Australian. Am I not an ally. Are my people not worth defenfing. Honestly is a little solidarity here asking for too much?

    Thank you for the few people who see it for the racist bs that it is. Highly offensive, very disgusting jokes, especially coming from an "ally"
     
  14. Grug

    Grug
    Member

    Look at this CV/academic history of one of the critics of Noah’s joke.

    https://atsis.uq.edu.au/profile/213/chelsea-bond

    Clearly an alt-right stooge feigning outrage yeah?

    Look at the years of study, academic publications, and work she has done in Indigenous communities just to build a pretense of credibility for her ultimate plan of mildly inconveniencing a US talk show host one time to strike a massive blow for the alt-right in the “culture wars”.

    Transparent as fuck.
     
  15. TuturuJones

    TuturuJones
    Member

    Not only that, he is also saying that a women's worth is relative to their sexual ability.
     
  16. Ingueferroque

    Ingueferroque
    Member

    Did the clip actually resurface? It isn't linked in the OP.
     
  17. Ah I hope this man never changes.

    "Meh" joke from Trevor but whatever. Cutting a piece from someone's very publicly available stand up special isn't exactly considered "resurfacing."
     
  18. TAH3145

    TAH3145
    Member

  19. Grug

    Grug
    Member

    Fuck. This. So. Much.
     
  20. choodi

    choodi
    Member

    No problem mate.

    I was born in Australia but come from a migrant family and have personally experienced racism, including being told, "Go back to your own country". That was enough for me, so I can only imagine what it is like for Indigenous Australians to experience systemic racism on a daily basis.

    I wont stand for that shit and no one else here should either. How this fucking thread is not full of red, I don't know.

    For anyone wanting to read the thoughts from some other Indigenous people, here are some comments:

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-07-...boriginal-women/10025424?section=arts-culture

     
  21. Grug

    Grug
    Member

    Yes, the lack of feminist anger here is equally galling. Some “allies” are worth more than others seemingly.
     
  22. Principate

    Principate
    Member

    Same old team politics. Anything to protect your side or people you like even when they make blatant mistakes.
     
  23. Mammoth Jones

    Mammoth Jones
    Member

    I'm glad we agree. A comedian told a joke that bombed.
     
  24. Slaythe

    Slaythe
    Member


    And they called it an opportunistic bashing.

    Like what the fuck are they gaining from this ???

    I'm starting to get sick of this shit.
     
  25. Machachan

    Machachan
    Member

    This is not a "meh" joke. It's massively racist *and* sexist. This isn't even a question.

    Like, how *can* you defend it? Putting the worth of a woman solely down to looks and sexual availability is shitty on its own, but the context makes it so much worse.
     
  26. Dekim

    Dekim
    Member

    Sad the see such racial jokes be dismissed by some here because of the recent alt-right tactics. Goes to show those on the left here are not immune to being blind with tribalism to protect "their team".
     
  27. Hecht

    Hecht
    Welp Administrator

    That's fucked up.

    And yeah, while I can see the impact of alt-right trolls (and others, hell I saw Piers Morgan commenting on it) latching onto something like this, it shouldn't diminish the original people that brought it to light who were offended by the "joke." It's sad to see people lumping both of those together.
     
  28. choodi

    choodi
    Member

    So, I respectfully ask what are you doing about it?
     
  29. Aang's_Bae

    Aang's_Bae
    Member

    You’re right is not an I sorry.
     
  30. AdrianG4

    AdrianG4
    Member

    Is it possible to talk about this as it is. And not just dismiss this because of the messengers -- alt right dirt or not, this is some very fucked up humor. For one moment consider the self esteem of the native people of Australia.. And not only Oh man, the alt right sure did get us!
     
  31. Hecht

    Hecht
    Welp Administrator

    We're not ignoring the thread, but there's still a discussion to be had (again, while I know the source of the original accusations, it has been latched onto by unsavory types, so they're sadly part of the conversation). People get things wrong, and honestly with a lot of the recent news lately, I can at least sorta "understand" why people are making that assumption. That doesn't mean it's correct.

    At this point I'm hoping people learn from their knee-jerk mistake and course-correct before we jump to any major action. That said, I suppose I can add to this (and the OP) to clear it up:

    While I know in recent days there have been many stories regarding the alt-right making accusations, digging up dirt, etc., on famous people in order to get them fired, each story needs to be looked at separately. In Trevor Noah's case, the initial accusation was brought up by Aboriginal Australians who felt genuine offense at his "joke," and while it's true that members of the alt-right have been more than happy to jump on the train, that doesn't diminish the original concerns and offense by the Aboriginal Australians. Try not to conflate those two parties when looking at this situation.
     
  32. Nickle

    Nickle
    Self-Requested Ban Member

    He admitted to being wrong and swore to never make a joke like that again, and even went to a museum to learn more about their culture. That's more then just saying sorry, he admitted his wrongdoing and is making a genuine effort to avoid doing something like that again. You don't need the use the word "sorry" to express remorse.
     
  33. GestaltGaz

    GestaltGaz
    Member

    I understand where you are coming from, but this community needs some self reflection if we need to keep qualifying sensitive topics with a (Read OP).

    The 'culture war' is a thing, especially in the US right now, but facts and knowledge are important if people are going to have an honest discussion. I'm seeing lazy replies and 'hot takes' galore, with no thought to spreading misinformation along the way. I believe it is in your hands (the moderators) to set the standard on how this forum goes forward.
     
  34. Lastbroadcast

    Lastbroadcast
    Member

    It’s probably lost on Americans why this was so bad. Australian comedians, as crass and as anti-PC as they are will rarely, if ever make jokes about Aboriginal people.

    Why?

    From 1788 to today:

    - The British declared Australia “terra nullius” and stole the land without treaties or compensation
    - British people fought, murdered and massacred Aboriginal people for their land in conflicts known as the Frontier Wars (see Myall Creek massacre and Tasmanian Black War for examples of this)
    - Survivvors were moved to missions and Reserves were they were forced to convert to Christianity and were abused in care by the Churches. They did not have freedom of movement or any of the basic rights of citizenship until 1967
    - Relevant to this discussion, many Aboriginal women were taken as wives and sex slaves by the sex starved European settlers
    - Aboriginal mothers had their mixed race children stolen and given to white families in a notorious act of genocide known as the “stolen generations”
    - There has been no redress, compensation or treaty yet signed between Aboriginal Australians and the government. Only a 1991 high court ruling allowed some Aboriginal people to claim back their land.

    Even today Aboriginal people living in country areas have life expectancy rates in the late 50s.

    That’s why you don’t joke about it.

    Trevor wouldn’t have known this, but now that he does he should apologise.
     
  35. choodi

    choodi
    Member

    Add to that a long history of quack-science calling Indigenous Australians "less evolved" based on physical characteristics and suddenly jokes about how people look are quite obviously offensive.
     
  36. Keuja

    Keuja
    Member

    Trevor Noah once again shows his true colors. Maybe he should stick to his safe American topics instead of opening his ignorant shithole of a mouth on topics he has no ideas about.
     
  37. Rupetta

    Rupetta
    Member

    yeah, I think a lot of people, including Noah, has little insight to the continued oppression and marginalization of aboriginal women.

    It is extra hurtful as stated in the article you linked because they pressume Noah to be an ’ally’ in their fight against disposession and racism. It is ironinic that one of the aboriginal activists who critiqued Noah - and is now harrassed by pressumed ’fans’ of online - Celeste Liddle (twitter handle utopiana, referred to in a previous post above), a couple days prior to this story, was published in an opinion piece where she presented a takedown of the racist discourse of ”African gangs” that has spread in aussie media: https://www.eurekastreet.com.au/article.aspx?aeid=56063

    She is not part of some alt right conspiracy, and if we silence her critique we are part of the institutional apparatus that has denied aboriginal women their voice. It doesn’t matter what that racist fuck Morgan says, he is not speaking for them... here us anninsightful speech by Liddle from a couple of years back that hopefully can constitute a learning for those who defend Noah and dismiss the racial aspects of the critique by saying that a SA man himself a victim of Apartheid is incapable of reproducing and producing discourse that oppress and marginalize:

    https://www.communitiesincontrol.com.au/files/cic/2016/transcripts/Celeste transcript.pdf
     
  38. Heshinsi

    Heshinsi
    Member

    I’m still trying to figure what the joke was though. What is going through his head to decide to go to Australia to make a sexist, racist joke about one of the most oppressed minority groups on the planet.

    Finding out that he hasn’t exactly apologised for the jokes he made about the aboriginal Australians is disgusting.
     
  39. choodi

    choodi
    Member

    Excellent links to further information and context for anyone looking to educate themselves.

    For what it's worth, I don't think Noah is a racist. I think he made a very racist and hurtful joke in complete ignorance of the history and context of modern Australian history and should have known better considering there are cultural and historical links between South Africa and Australia.

    However, he has shown remorse and a willingness to educate himself since he made the joke and has again made an attempt to bridge the divide he has created with the community. Whether he is committed to that course and follows through is yet to be seen, but I have faith that he will. I also have faith that the Indigenous Australian community here will willingly come to the party and show him why his joke was completely ignorant and well out of order and will work with him to make sure he has a better understanding of the history of Aboriginal people in Australia, both modern and pre-European settlement.
     
  40. trinity

    trinity
    Member

    nah this is fucking bullshit. in any US-centric thread about racism, you even get close to saying something controversial, and youre immediately banned. theres been some of the most egregious downplaying of racism in this thread and you guys have done nothing about it. in fact the closest youve probably come to banning someone is right now, i'd imagine.

    you've got multiple australians explaining how fucking offensive what he said was, and giving context, and yet people are still coming in here and saying shit like "nah, not racist." and the mods are doing absolutely fucking nothing.

    a lot of people talk a good talk online but really dont seem to give a fuck about any issues outside of their home country. the double standard is honestly mindblowing to me.
     
  41. AztecComplex

    AztecComplex
    Banned Member

    This joke is from 2013 yes? And he's since never repeated it but also tasked for forgiveness and gone out of his way to not let it happen again. I firmly believe we're not all as bad as our worst moment. Let's stop devouring our own tails
     
  42. Horned Reaper

    Horned Reaper
    Member

    Same here, mate. I'm just trying to find a reason for all the handwaving in this thread. It's bizarre.
     
  43. KunaiDrilla

    KunaiDrilla
    Member

    He did it to the French after they won the world cup. But let's not go in circles here.
     
  44. AztecComplex

    AztecComplex
    Banned Member

    Oh God you know what? We deserve Trump as president. We keep doing this to ourselves.
     
  45. Metallix87

    Metallix87
    Member

    Ummm... what? What kind of a response is this?
     
  46. AztecComplex

    AztecComplex
    Banned Member

    Did you see his response to that joke's backlash? I was one of those thinking he had fucked up but he, and jusdging from the thread Era as well, gave a very good explanation as to why while also being very respectful of France and it's multicultural origins. I advice you to watch that counter argument.
     
  47. This thread is embarrassing. You can hate nazi dipshits using this against him because you like him or view his work as important but acting like the joke wasn't racist and sexist as hell is fucking ridiculous.
     
  48. choodi

    choodi
    Member

    Any ETA on when we will know the results of this discussion?

    Seems to be taking a long time for any action to be taken outside of one mod note.
     
  49. Irminsul

    Irminsul
    Member

    Yeah, I'm generally all for "comedians should be able to say crass things", but that requires two things:

    1) They're saying these things to make a bigger point, e.g., about racism in society. Sort of "if you laughed about that, think hard about why that was funny to you". I don't think Trevor Noah's, err, joke falls under that category, because it isn't followed up by anything in this direction.

    2) An actual joke. As you say, what's supposed to be the joke here? "I guess there's a few good-looking people as well"? That's in bad taste (at best) if you're making it about, say, a city or country as a whole, but why would you ever make this joke about Aboriginals? Where does that even come from?
     
  50. Heshinsi

    Heshinsi
    Member

    You’re assuming people didn’t already watch his pathetic ass response and have already deemed it rubbish. He seems to have this mentality that only his world view is important, and even if the people who he directs his nonsense at don’t agree with him, it doesn’t matter because the universe is as he says it is.