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CamERA Equipment |OT| Photon Capturing Comparison Club

Oct 25, 2017
3,802
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Just saw Manny Ortiz's latest video about Electronic Front-Curtain Shutter (EFCS) and why you shouldn't use it particularly at high shutter speeds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQTarMu_y6Y

I had heard about this issue before, but this is the first time I've personally seen it laid out so clearly.

Taking photos with the mechanical shutter and EFCS turned on at high shutter speeds can screw with how your bokeh and out-of-focus areas look and it also seems to reduce the amount of light the image receives overall.

I did a quick couple of comparison shots of my own this afternoon and it's definitely a thing.

https://www.flickr.com/gp/[email protected]/Gg4L98

The bokeh looks pretty much the same on my A9 between full mechanical (no EFCS) and full electronic, but things change with mechanical + EFCS. I can definitely tell the image is brighter overall in full mechanical, too, despite using the same exposure settings. Definitely something to keep in mind... I rarely shoot with the mechanical shutter anyway, but I think I'll disable EFCS for now.
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,963
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Just saw Manny Ortiz's latest video about Electronic Front-Curtain Shutter (EFCS) and why you shouldn't use it particularly at high shutter speeds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQTarMu_y6Y

I had heard about this issue before, but this is the first time I've personally seen it laid out so clearly.

Taking photos with the mechanical shutter and EFCS turned on at high shutter speeds can screw with how your bokeh and out-of-focus areas look and it also seems to reduce the amount of light the image receives overall.

I did a quick couple of comparison shots of my own this afternoon and it's definitely a thing.

https://www.flickr.com/gp/[email protected]/Gg4L98

The bokeh looks pretty much the same on my A9 between full mechanical (no EFCS) and full electronic, but things change with mechanical + EFCS. I can definitely tell the image is brighter overall in full mechanical, too, despite using the same exposure settings. Definitely something to keep in mind... I rarely shoot with the mechanical shutter anyway, but I think I'll disable EFCS for now.
I saw this yesterday. I think I need to turn EFCS off on my D810. I'm not really an electronic shutter person that often and I think I'm usually in the 1/250th range when I am. I'm very rarely outdoors when I use it, but this is something to be aware of.
 
Oct 25, 2017
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Any chance we get a new Fuji XE4? I tried the XE3 in a store the other day but thought the shutter was too loud (at least compared to my X100F...) and no OVF is such a downgrade lol. I absolutely adore my X100F’s OVF.
 
Oct 26, 2017
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Do you guys prefer regular Slides or Slide Lites for XT-3 / A7iii, when you are doing a regular trip and not doing an intensive 5 hour event? Wondering which I should ask for Christmas.
I got the slide lite v2 and for my A7iii its abit big or fat for me.

But I guess I like mine abit thinner. Good thing the other side of the strap can be connected to the tripod port. It balances well when I'm just carrying it on my sides.



I might get the Peak Design Cuff instead. But this isn't a strap.
 
Oct 26, 2017
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I saw this yesterday. I think I need to turn EFCS off on my D810. I'm not really an electronic shutter person that often and I think I'm usually in the 1/250th range when I am. I'm very rarely outdoors when I use it, but this is something to be aware of.
Hmm I read some stuff from Jim Kasson over at dpreview in the Nikon Z7 forum where he says it‘s highly recommended to turn it ON unless you shoot at very high shutter speeds like 1/2000. Otherwise shutter shock is very visible. I would not turn it off for 1/250.
 
Oct 25, 2017
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Hmm I read some stuff from Jim Kasson over at dpreview in the Nikon Z7 forum where he says it‘s highly recommended to turn it ON unless you shoot at very high shutter speeds like 1/2000. Otherwise shutter shock is very visible. I would not turn it off for 1/250.
Yeah I figured, I'm not really usually that high on my shutter, but whoever knows when I will and I can't turn it off before I take the shot because I won't remember too. I guess I should just not care about it that much.
 
Do you guys prefer regular Slides or Slide Lites for XT-3 / A7iii, when you are doing a regular trip and not doing an intensive 5 hour event? Wondering which I should ask for Christmas.
I would probably get a Leash instead, unless you plan on using telephoto lenses a lot.
I have both the Leash & Slide Lite and also found the Slide Lite a bit too fat for my liking.

I bought the Slide Lite because I wanted the grippy side for slippery coats like a Uniqlo Light Down. It just feels odd that Peak Design put that side opposite the buckle side. To me, it just doesn't feel right.

For my equipment, I use their strap system this way:

Cuff: Fujifilm X100S, Olympus E-M10 II
Leash: Fujifilm X-T100, Olympus E-M5 II, Olympus E-P5
Slide Lite: Panasonic G9
Slide or Generic Strap with Anchor Links: Canon 5D Mark III, Canon 6D
 
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Nov 13, 2017
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Any chance we get a new Fuji XE4? I tried the XE3 in a store the other day but thought the shutter was too loud (at least compared to my X100F...) and no OVF is such a downgrade lol. I absolutely adore my X100F’s OVF.
If you want to maintain an OVF your only option with Fuji is the Xpro series, if you want to move to interchangeable.

I am sure eventually there will be a XE4 but I think the XE3 has not been out that long.
XT3 seems to be getting a lot of glowing reviews but I am still on my xpro2 for now
 
Oct 25, 2017
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I would probably get a Leash instead, unless you plan on using telephoto lenses a lot.
I have both the Leash & Slide Lite and also found the Slide Lite a bit too fat for my liking.

I bought the Slide Lite because I wanted the grippy side for slippery coats like a Uniqlo Light Down. It just feels odd that Peak Design put that side opposite the buckle side. To me, it just doesn't feel right.

For my equipment, I use their strap system this way:

Cuff: Fujifilm X-100S, Olympus E-M10 II
Leash: Fujifilm X-T100, Olympus E-M5 II, Olympus E-P5
Slide Lite: Panasonic G9
Slide or Generic Strap with Anchor Links: Canon 5D Mark III, Canon 6D
I have two 2.8 zooms for Fuji and Nikon, I'm pretty much just getting nothing but Slides to be honest, same for Sony...I didn't exactly get into mirrorless under the false pretenses of lighter lenses.
 
Oct 25, 2017
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I've got the Slide Lite, the Leash, and the, uh, the Clutch from PD.

Clutch was nice when I had A7II but it doesn't really work well on the XT-2. Leash and Slide Lite both get use from me; Leash is great for 'grab and go' and it's versatility -- I love the single point sling configuration. Slide Lite is if I have heavier lenses or just want the camera to be hanging at my side for longer periods.
 
Oct 25, 2017
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That's kinda where I'm at -- if the XPro 3 is lock step with the XT-3, and is cheaper/better, then I may pick it up as a second body/fiance camera.
X-Pro 3 will not be cheaper since often times the X-Pro 2 is more expensive or the same price as the X-T3.
I may just wait for the XPro 3.
This might come after or right before the X-H2, but this isn't a camera I would be holding my breath waiting for.
 
Oct 25, 2017
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OH I'm not saying it'd be *cheap*, just *cheaper*. XT-3 came out right after I got the XT-2, so yeah, that's where I'm coming from lol.
This all depends on where they decide to manufacture it. The X-T3 only hit the price point it did because they manufactured it in China and that's if they decide to do that, which they might since they only make the GFX and X-H1 cameras in Japan, but I wouldn't bet on this till it's announced.
 
Oct 25, 2017
195
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I’m looking for a camera that has a selfie screen for vlogs and shit, is the Sony a5100 still worth it?

Bodies are currently going for $350 and since I’m already in the Sony system with an a7 kit and NEX-5, I feel like it might be a good option coz I’ve got lenses and a Nikon F to E adapter for all my Nikon gear.

But I’ve also got a Panny ZS100 that I currently use for vlogs, problem is that the screen is fixed so I’m currently mirroring the screen on my phone just to see what I’m seeing lol. Best thing about the ZS100 is that it shoots in 4K and it’s pretty good quality but the AF is garbage and constantly hunts around.

Doe anybody have any other recommendations? I don’t really need 4K but if it has it, then that’d be awesome. My budget is under $500 coz this is just for vlogging after all lol.

Thanks!
 
Oct 25, 2017
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I’m looking for a camera that has a selfie screen for vlogs and shit, is the Sony a5100 still worth it?

Bodies are currently going for $350 and since I’m already in the Sony system with an a7 kit and NEX-5, I feel like it might be a good option coz I’ve got lenses and a Nikon F to E adapter for all my Nikon gear.

But I’ve also got a Panny ZS100 that I currently use for vlogs, problem is that the screen is fixed so I’m currently mirroring the screen on my phone just to see what I’m seeing lol. Best thing about the ZS100 is that it shoots in 4K and it’s pretty good quality but the AF is garbage and constantly hunts around.

Doe anybody have any other recommendations? I don’t really need 4K but if it has it, then that’d be awesome. My budget is under $500 coz this is just for vlogging after all lol.

Thanks!
If you want a dedicated Youtube channel for a guy who just bitches about what weaknesses cameras have for Vlogging purposes, look up Camera Conspiracies, and pick whichever camera he bitches about the least.
 
Oct 25, 2017
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If you want a dedicated Youtube channel for a guy who just bitches about what weaknesses cameras have for Vlogging purposes, look up Camera Conspiracies, and pick whichever camera he bitches about the least.
Cool, I’ll check out his stuff.

With a $500 budget have you considered the panasonic g7? Also what do you vlog about? got a link?
Hmmm, that’s a great suggestion actually but I’m already invested in Nikon and Sony FF glass... that $500 budget goes away the moment I factor in a speed booster lol.

As for what I vlog, it’s mostly my travels so far but I’m planning to do music reviews and analysis next year.
 
Oct 25, 2017
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Badly need some advice. I'm Christmas shopping for my partner who is into photography. The one area I've seen her struggling with over the last year is her computer. She does most of her editing with Lightroom on a fairly old Macbook Pro that's having a hard time keeping up after all these years.

So, I want to get her a new laptop as a gift. Right now, I'm torn between another Macbook Pro or a Surface Book 2. To be honest, I like what I see out of the Surface Book 2 - it's sleek as fuck. But I'm also not a photographer and don't have a clue how Lightroom will run on it.

Assuming I go with the base i5 model of the Surface Book 2, is Lightroom going to run like a charm on it?

Am I stupid for leaning toward the Surface Book 2 over the Macbook Pro?

I did a fair amount of Google research and couldn't find anything conclusive. Any advice would help immeasurably.

Thanks in advance.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,618
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Badly need some advice. I'm Christmas shopping for my partner who is into photography. The one area I've seen her struggling with over the last year is her computer. She does most of her editing with Lightroom on a fairly old Macbook Pro that's having a hard time keeping up after all these years.

So, I want to get her a new laptop as a gift. Right now, I'm torn between another Macbook Pro or a Surface Book 2. To be honest, I like what I see out of the Surface Book 2 - it's sleek as fuck. But I'm also not a photographer and don't have a clue how Lightroom will run on it.

Assuming I go with the base i5 model of the Surface Book 2, is Lightroom going to run like a charm on it?

Am I stupid for leaning toward the Surface Book 2 over the Macbook Pro?

I did a fair amount of Google research and couldn't find anything conclusive. Any advice would help immeasurably.

Thanks in advance.
Processors are processors. The i5 in a Surface Book is the same i5 in a Macbook, if it's the same model.
An i5 should do fine with Lightroom, I used the i5 2500 for a good while, and though things got a bit faster with my Ryzen rig, it wasn't... unusually slow. LR in general isn't the snappiest program though.

That being said, the Surface Book being half tablet is a *huge* advantage, in that it'll have native, built in on screen pen support, which makes using brushes etc better. If I was picking, "For Lightroom", I'd definitely take that.
 
I used the i5 2500 forEVER with lightroom, but of course not all i5s are made the same. An i7 surface 4 pro ran LR worse than my old ass i5 desktop.

My new i7/16gb surface runs LR just dandy though.

We've bought a number of kitted out MBPros here recently, and the performance on them is just garbage IMO compared to kitted out Surfaces.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,618
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I used the i5 2500 forEVER with lightroom, but of course not all i5s are made the same. An i7 surface 4 pro ran LR worse than my old ass i5 desktop.

My new i7/16gb surface runs LR just dandy though.

We've bought a number of kitted out MBPros here recently, and the performance on them is just garbage IMO compared to kitted out Surfaces.
Well, there are definitely differences between Desktop and Laptop CPU models, but if we're looking at two laptops, that won't be a factor.
I have an i3 SP3. LR is, for all intents and purposes, non-functioning on it. &_&
 
Oct 25, 2017
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https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1573855

Made a thread on FM about that EFCS issue and others have seen it. Fred himself just recommends using full ES 100% of the time, but he never shoots action.

edit: and here's a 2 year old article I found that covers the exact stuff Manny tested, so it's not like it's new knowledge, just probably not super obvious.

https://phillipreeve.net/blog/limitations-of-the-electronic-shutter-function/
Seems like the consensus is that it's definitely beneficial under 1/1000, but can start having issues above that and they get worse the faster the shutter speed.

It would be nice if there was just a feature that automatically disabled it at 1/1000 and above. It's unlikely camera shake will be an issue if you that high, anyway. I think I read somewhere that certain cameras do disable it automatically at high shutter speeds.
 
Oct 25, 2017
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Seems like the consensus is that it's definitely beneficial under 1/1000, but can start having issues above that and they get worse the faster the shutter speed.

It would be nice if there was just a feature that automatically disabled it at 1/1000 and above. It's unlikely camera shake will be an issue if you that high, anyway. I think I read somewhere that certain cameras do disable it automatically at high shutter speeds.
I think it's a thing that's only on till 1/1000th, but it might not be consistent across all cameras.
 
Nov 13, 2017
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https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1573855

Made a thread on FM about that EFCS issue and others have seen it. Fred himself just recommends using full ES 100% of the time, but he never shoots action.

edit: and here's a 2 year old article I found that covers the exact stuff Manny tested, so it's not like it's new knowledge, just probably not super obvious.

https://phillipreeve.net/blog/limitations-of-the-electronic-shutter-function/
why use a ES unless you have no choice like, really high shutter speeds? or total silence I guess
 
Oct 25, 2017
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Picked up my craigslist 24-105 today, pretty sure this dude never took it out of the box. Said it was only 6 months old and I believe it. The year of Sony officially starts now! Looking forward to seeing what Marcus and I crank out this year.
Nice! Looking forward to seeing your output. I really like the 24-105 and it's been a staple on my camera since I picked it up.
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,963
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Picked up my craigslist 24-105 today, pretty sure this dude never took it out of the box. Said it was only 6 months old and I believe it. The year of Sony officially starts now! Looking forward to seeing what Marcus and I crank out this year.
I am resisting the urge to go to B&H and picking up the Sigma 35 Art lens. I'm hoping it goes on sale and that I save up another bit of more money. I'm trying to hold out till like January or when I get the money from my transcription work, but who knows how strong I can stay.
you guys have me looking at the rII or a3 lol
The RII is surprisingly still capable for being a three year old camera.
 
Oct 25, 2017
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I don't think I'd spend my money on that quite frankly, the Sony 35 1.4 seems to be far better at AF and considerably smaller too. With that RII, take any AF advantage you can.
I think the Art mostly loses to it on video AF from what I've seen. I really do not want to pay 1100-1500 for the Sony Zeiss only to get a lens that's decentered. Also my plan with the Sigma Art is to keep it till they announce a 35 1.4GM and then just trade it.
I just checked and the size difference is mostly a thickness difference when you ignore the lens hood.
http://j.mp/2Pj07EB
All those Sigma lenses are comically large.
Size wise I'm fine with the 35 and 50, everything after the 85 is too stupid big in my opinion. I wouldn't mind the 135 1.8 though to be honest If I only have primes in my bag.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
195
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Are Metabones Speedboosters worth the exorbitant price?

I’m heavily considering the Panny G7 after some research but I’d also love to be able to use my nicer lenses on it since I really don’t want to invest in another lens mount.
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,963
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Are Metabones Speedboosters worth the exorbitant price?

I’m heavily considering the Panny G7 after some research but I’d also love to be able to use my nicer lenses on it since I really don’t want to invest in another lens mount.
They allow in more light, but depending on the speedbooster have the potential to increase more vignetting. So this depends on how much bokeh and low light you need or want.
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,963
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Snagged a $200 Amazon card from my work Xmas party, debating getting an MC-11....or a winch for my Jeep LOL.

Too many expensive hobbies.
I wish I had that luck. I'd say put it towards the 85 1.8, but that's not your focal length. See what Canon lenses work the best on the Sigma first before you get it. Also I can get the Sigma from Greentoe for 850. I'll sit on that for a bit. What I read from Fred Miranda seriously put me off of the Zeiss lens.