CamERA Equipment |OT| Photon Capturing Comparison Club

nitewulf

Member
Nov 29, 2017
1,316
It's going to be a VERY crowded space and they have carved out their niche already. Their main competitor in that niche, Panasonic, is abandoning it as well, so why would Oly do anything different? You've seen the size of the L mount glass, that's not Oly's bag.
I'm genuinely worried about them as I don't think MFT will survive past a few years. I thought the Panny-Oly strategic partnership will continue.
 

Menelaus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,682
I'm genuinely worried about them as I don't think MFT will survive past a few years. I thought the Panny-Oly strategic partnership will continue.
It very well may not, and Oly will retreat to scientific optics where they've always had a good presence as well. In my humble opinion, m4/3 dying will have a very small ripple on the photographic world.
 

nitewulf

Member
Nov 29, 2017
1,316
There's no space for it now...most of the high end phones take exquisite photos, and the smaller point and shoots from Canon/Sony/Fuji/Ricoh have come a long way. It was a great stop gap for a while.
 

JadedWriter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,698
Honestly, I think the A7RIII is the best overall package on the market today. 10fps, tons of MP for product/fine art/landscape shooting, decent IBIS, great AF and EyeAF for mirrorless and probably second only to other Sony bodies, killer battery life, high res EVF, great 4K video, ability to take TONS of lenses, and on and on for close to $2300 new. No other system seems to come close to the feature set at that price.
This is why I want one over the A7III, that thing is a fucking power house and only a few hundred more and I actually have a Sony ecosystem so I'm set. My biggest problem was paying a ton of money for a body I have no lenses for, now I'm set.
 

Zefah

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,890
Honestly, I think the A7RIII is the best overall package on the market today. 10fps, tons of MP for product/fine art/landscape shooting, decent IBIS, great AF and EyeAF for mirrorless and probably second only to other Sony bodies, killer battery life, high res EVF, great 4K video, ability to take TONS of lenses, and on and on for close to $2300 new. No other system seems to come close to the feature set at that price.
Agreed. For the price, it's easily the best all-rounder out there. I would take it over the A7 III even since the price gap has shrunk so much.
 

ArtTeitlebaum

Member
Oct 25, 2017
504
Europe
I won't lie, that Leica Q2 is the first 'real' Leica that I seriously could consider to buy for 5k. Of course at the same time my wife then would consider some serious corporal punishment in exchange.
But the specs and the design are mouthwatering for sure.
 

Menelaus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,682
Watched quite a few Q2 videos and...I don't see the appeal at all, not at that price at least, especially given that it's an electronic camera with a finite life. Not like something you'll hold onto for 20-30 years. The picture quality at any web size is negligibly better than other options that are half the price.
 

JadedWriter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,698
I won't lie, that Leica Q2 is the first 'real' Leica that I seriously could consider to buy for 5k. Of course at the same time my wife then would consider some serious corporal punishment in exchange.
But the specs and the design are mouthwatering for sure.
I don't know what the Leica demographic really is to be honest. It's not a photojournalists camera, it's great for street photography, but professional street photographers. I get it's "photography purity" but that price range is fucking stupid.
 

ArtTeitlebaum

Member
Oct 25, 2017
504
Europe
The Missus is very kind to me if I obey the laws of financial responsibility.
I don't know what the Leica demographic really is to be honest. It's not a photojournalists camera, it's great for street photography, but professional street photographers. I get it's "photography purity" but that price range is fucking stupid.
Of course it is a luxury status symbol at the same time.
I mean the glass is good, the camera is well built, the ergonomics are fine but the target audience are dentists and maybe a handful of professional artists which is quite a small group lol.
Doesn't change the fact that this is a beautiful device with a special design language.
 

Menelaus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,682
The Missus is very kind to me if I obey the laws of financial responsibility.


Of course it is a luxury status symbol at the same time.
I mean the glass is good, the camera is well built, the ergonomics are fine but the target audience are dentists and maybe a handful of professional artists which is quite a small group lol.
Doesn't change the fact that this is a beautiful device with a special design language.
Basically the same way I want a Land Rover Defender when I already have an extremely capable Jeep Wrangler because GODDAMN those Defenders are something special.
 

JadedWriter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,698
Of course it is a luxury status symbol at the same time.
I mean the glass is good, the camera is well built, the ergonomics are fine but the target audience are dentists and maybe a handful of professional artists which is quite a small group lol.
Doesn't change the fact that this is a beautiful device with a special design language.
They're great looking cameras that I could never justify purchasing. That Q2 is the same price as a GFX50R or used 50S. I could get a Sony 135GM and A7RIII for less, I could get a 24-70GM and a second body. There's so much more I could buy at that price that would actually aid my event photography.
 

ArtTeitlebaum

Member
Oct 25, 2017
504
Europe
Basically the same way I want a Land Rover Defender when I already have an extremely capable Jeep Wrangler because GODDAMN those Defenders are something special.
Oh yes, the world of cars is just the same in the way that there can be irrational feelings for some beautiful vehicle too. Every hobby has some expensive moments that are difficult to explain to outsiders.
 

ArtTeitlebaum

Member
Oct 25, 2017
504
Europe
They're great looking cameras that I could never justify purchasing. That Q2 is the same price as a GFX50R or used 50S. I could get a Sony 135GM and A7RIII for less, I could get a 24-70GM and a second body. There's so much more I could buy at that price that would actually aid my event photography.
Sure, but the pixie dust of magic isn't the same with these. ;-)
 

JadedWriter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,698
Sure, but the pixie dust of magic isn't the same with these. ;-)
My job doesn't pay me to photograph their events with elitist pixie dust. Unless this thing has top of the line high iso and the fastest AF it's just a status symbol and yeah I completely acknowledge that a lot of great photographers have owned Leica's, but I don't care. Anybody that tells me "you're not a photographer unless you own a Leica" can eat my shit.
 

Ivalice

Member
Oct 25, 2017
708
My job doesn't pay me to photograph their events with elitist pixie dust. Unless this thing has top of the line high iso and the fastest AF it's just a status symbol and yeah I completely acknowledge that a lot of great photographers have owned Leica's, but I don't care. Anybody that tells me "you're not a photographer unless you own a Leica" can eat my shit.
The price of the Q2 seems pretty good for what it is. 47mp, weather sealing, 28mm Summilux, compact size, etc. It’s closest competition is the Sony RX1R line that can barely turn on without overheating. No one here has said “you’re not a photographer unless you own a Leica”.
 

Ivalice

Member
Oct 25, 2017
708
I've never heard this tbh. Is this really a thing? I always had the impression that Leica users were infamous for being rich photo layman.
That’s an internet meme from people with weird hatred of the brand. “Rich photo laymen” buy stuff like the latest Canon with kit lens, not a manual focus-only rangefinder from a niche company lol.
 

JadedWriter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,698
I've never heard this tbh. Is this really a thing? I always had the impression that Leica users were infamous for being rich photo layman.
I haven't heard it personally, but it seems like some people would think that over the allure of the brand.
The price of the Q2 seems pretty good for what it is. 47mp, weather sealing, 28mm Summilux, compact size, etc. It’s closest competition is the Sony RX1R line that can barely turn on without overheating. No one here has said “you’re not a photographer unless you own a Leica”.
Yeah it's pretty much in RX1R territory, which is a cool camera, but if it's that bad and if it's the only camera with the only lens I'd ever want to use I'd get it over the RX1R. The Leica brand or at least their fanbase just seems to rub me the wrong way like how Nintendo's fanbase rubs me the wrong way.
 

Ivalice

Member
Oct 25, 2017
708
Yeah it's pretty much in RX1R territory, which is a cool camera, but if it's that bad and if it's the only camera with the only lens I'd ever want to use I'd get it over the RX1R. The Leica brand or at least their fanbase just seems to rub me the wrong way like how Nintendo's fanbase rubs me the wrong way.
Do I rub you the wrong way? :(
 

ArtTeitlebaum

Member
Oct 25, 2017
504
Europe
That’s an internet meme from people with weird hatred of the brand. “Rich photo laymen” buy stuff like the latest Canon with kit lens, not a manual focus-only rangefinder from a niche company lol.
This is true. Full frame Canon with kit lens in Auto mode is a classic at every tourist photo location.
Personally I don't know any Leica user, because the price range of their stuff is out of reach for me or the photo guys that I talk to.
 

Menelaus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,682
I know a guy with a Hasselblad but he’s actually pretty damn good at architecture photography. Otherwise he’s using his 5D4 because he’s a realist lol.
 

JadedWriter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,698
Do I rub you the wrong way? :(
I think you're fine, you're not obnoxious about anything.
This is true. Full frame Canon with kit lens in Auto mode is a classic at every tourist photo location.
Personally I don't know any Leica user, because the price range of their stuff is out of reach for me or the photo guys that I talk to.
You know somebody is on auto when they're photographing a building with the pop up flash up. I always walk passed them like:
 

ArtTeitlebaum

Member
Oct 25, 2017
504
Europe
I know a guy with a Hasselblad but he’s actually pretty damn good at architecture photography. Otherwise he’s using his 5D4 because he’s a realist lol.
I know some serious artist that is living in South Africa now that shoots the most amazing landscapes with a humble Nikon D750. But the glass is of course a little bit more sophisticated. I mean expensive pots don't make a good meal by themselves.
 

Menelaus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,682
Curious if anyone can explain this. I saw it on my X-H1 with the Helios in a flare situation as well, but this shot is on the Sony. Anyways, I was testing out the Rokkor to see what kind of flares it produces, and got horizontal lines appearing in the purple part of the flare. The Fuji rendered a really strange geometric pattern of triangles. Any clue what causes this? You'll have to go to flicker and blow it up.

7R301219 by Scott Tucker, on Flickr
 

nitewulf

Member
Nov 29, 2017
1,316
Typical Leica owners are rich folks with good taste that know how to take a photo or two, they travel, they are cosmopolitan. These are niche cameras by default, and certainly luxury items like an exotic car or a mechanical Swiss watch. The trolls fall more into the "if you don't have a FF camera and pro grade lenses you ain't shit" category, or people who buy lenses and run right off to take pictures of brick walls to check for distortion. The classic Leica wide angles or portrait lenses have a look to them, Leica owners (and admirers like myself) certainly love that look, but they are certainly not for pixel peepers. Now the modern lenses are obviously extremely good, but they are still manual focus for the most part and not mainstream.

The Q2 for instance is very alluring for me, and a Leica I would consider buying, I mean you get a Leica fast wide prime, FF resolution and ISO capability, precision German engineering. Can you achieve similar results at a cheaper price? Sure. People also pay thousands for designer jeans and leather goods. This is in the same category.
 

Zefah

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,890
The classic Leica wide angles or portrait lenses have a look to them, Leica owners (and admirers like myself) certainly love that look,
I feel like I hear this with just about any expensive lens manufacturer, but it's always some ethereal thing that no one can describe in concrete terms or accurately identify.
 

Menelaus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,682
I feel like I hear this with just about any expensive lens manufacturer, but it's always some ethereal thing that no one can describe in concrete terms or accurately identify.
Yeah, again looking at the test images I linked earlier, in a blind test I would never suspect those came from a Leica versus anything else.

People feel compelled to justify their expenditures, that’s all I can really say.
 

nitewulf

Member
Nov 29, 2017
1,316
I think many of the vintage portrait lenses have that soft quality to it, probably achieved very well by software today, I wouldn't shell out specifically for a Leica, I think the modern Voighlander lenses could achieve similar results, or vintage fast primes from Minolta etc that are like $30 - $80. The older wide primes around 28mm are very nice and contrasty. I was reading up on the Zeiss Biotar lenses, and they have very nice swirly bokeh which is basically what you guys actually really really like. And these lenses aren't very expensive. Or the Helios for instance, which is actually very cheap.
 

Ivalice

Member
Oct 25, 2017
708
Yeah, again looking at the test images I linked earlier, in a blind test I would never suspect those came from a Leica versus anything else.

People feel compelled to justify their expenditures, that’s all I can really say.
IMO the whole “Leica look” thing comes from the film days. These days all cameras carry the more or less the same sensor and look very similar in comparison, so one can’t tell what camera or lens produced what. Unless the lens in question is like a Noctilux.

The appeal of Leica to me comes from the compact form factor, rangefinder focusing, aesthetics, and high resale value. Leicas are famous for keeping their value, even the digital ones.
 

Astral/H3X

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,151
If I could, I'd get the Q2, particularly if the '75mm' output looks good.

But I'll settle for buying an X100F when I go to Japan later this year. :D
 

Menelaus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,682
Spent an hour lunch break at the park messing with the 100-400 and ohhhh boy got some cool stuff to share tomorrow. Just a wacky lens.

Is that your pic? I was like, I know I've seen that on Reddit before...

Basically wine tasting.
Not sure I'd go THAT far...I've got a very sensitive palate, so tastings are one of my pleasures. I understand how people without a palate like that would doubt I can discern the minutiae that I can, maybe Leica shooters just have sensitive aesthetic palates!
 

Zefah

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,890
Not sure I'd go THAT far...I've got a very sensitive palate, so tastings are one of my pleasures. I understand how people without a palate like that would doubt I can discern the minutiae that I can, maybe Leica shooters just have sensitive aesthetic palates!
I'm not doubting that you can tell the difference or prefer one wine over another in a comparison, but I doubt anyone who claims the ability to identify a wine in a blind tasting.