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nitewulf

Member
Nov 29, 2017
7,204
I'm pretty seriously thinking about a Sony w/ the 24mm 1.4 for low light street stuff. And the Fuji for daytime street, travel and wildlife, as the APS-C crop factor would work in my benefit. But I need to see if the A7r4 or the A7s3 would at least update the dials. At least a dedicated ISO dial would help, or maybe not...I'll set it to Auto and forget about it. But I am also very excited about the R mount, so I don't know. However I'm pretty comfortable playing around with two systems.
 
Oct 25, 2017
26,920
I'm pretty seriously thinking about a Sony w/ the 24mm 1.4 for low light street stuff. And the Fuji for daytime street, travel and wildlife, as the APS-C crop factor would work in my benefit. But I need to see if the A7r4 or the A7s3 would at least update the dials. At least a dedicated ISO dial would help, or maybe not...I'll set it to Auto and forget about it. But I am also very excited about the R mount, so I don't know. However I'm pretty comfortable playing around with two systems.
Just get a Sony and use it for a month. You'll learn it and get used to it and adjust what you need to where you need.
 

Deleted member 1635

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Oct 25, 2017
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I'm pretty seriously thinking about a Sony w/ the 24mm 1.4 for low light street stuff. And the Fuji for daytime street, travel and wildlife, as the APS-C crop factor would work in my benefit. But I need to see if the A7r4 or the A7s3 would at least update the dials. At least a dedicated ISO dial would help, or maybe not...I'll set it to Auto and forget about it. But I am also very excited about the R mount, so I don't know. However I'm pretty comfortable playing around with two systems.

I've probably posted a dozen times in this thread alone on the topic, but I see zero reason for a dedicated ISO dial. Not for my use cases at least. Auto with shutter speed floors and an exposure compensation dial are all I need. That's just me, though.

I'm on the other side of the fence with Sony as my main full frame body and looking at Fuji as a second APS-C body. The X-T3 was just slightly lacking in features I wanted for me to pull the trigger at the time, so I'm waiting to see what Sony announces next for their high-end APS-C body before deciding what to do.

I don't know how you could consider the R mount right now. The bodies are just so lacking compared the competition.
 

nitewulf

Member
Nov 29, 2017
7,204
Just get a Sony and use it for a month. You'll learn it and get used to it and adjust what you need to where you need.
Yes...the A7s2 used prices are pretty low. And the lens is actually well priced as well...so I'm kinda thinking about it.
I don't know how you could consider the R mount right now. The bodies are just so lacking compared the competition.
Oh yeah, not at all for now, the lenses are so nice, it's more 1 to 2 years down the line.
 

Deleted member 1635

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Oct 25, 2017
6,800
Yes...the A7s2 used prices are pretty low. And the lens is actually well priced as well...so I'm kinda thinking about it.

Oh yeah, not at all for now, the lenses are so nice, it's more 1 to 2 years down the line.

The lenses do seem quite nice, but there seems to be little reason to trust that Canon will do right by their customers when it comes to camera body technology compared to their competitors given their track record. You either got a 1DX Mark II or you're losing out with them. I don't think the ultra-expensive but interesting lenses like the f/2 zoom make it worth it. I'm sure it does for some, though.
 

nitewulf

Member
Nov 29, 2017
7,204
The X-T3 was just slightly lacking in features I wanted for me to pull the trigger at the time, so I'm waiting to see what Sony announces next for their high-end APS-C body before deciding what to do.
After heavily using the XT3 for a while, I'll give it two knocks. The battery life is pretty bad, but it's easy enough to carry two batteries. And I was surprised, I shot 500 burst shots at the Chromatics concert, camera had no issues and battery was good. I think if you don't chimp it performs very well.

Lack of IBIS. Not a deal breaker but of course it's a great thing to have, specially for architecture shots, which I do end up doing during travels.

So Fuji's best strategy IMO would be to have the same tech for XT4/XH2 internally but to place the XH2 as flagship with the better build quality + IBIS. Come up with a new battery.

Not gonna knock it for low ISO because that's just APS-C, it's great upto 1600, and usable upto 6400. And I hope to see some benefits here for the next gen/down the line. Apparently Fuji + Panasonic are developing organic sensors together.

The lenses do seem quite nice, but there seems to be little reason to trust that Canon will do right by their customers when it comes to camera body technology compared to their competitors given their track record. You either got a 1DX Mark II or you're losing out with them. I don't think the ultra-expensive but interesting lenses like the f/2 zoom make it worth it. I'm sure it does for some, though.
Yeah I definitely wanna see their body tech first, I have hopes but yeah, track record is very bad. But they need to fight to stay up, so, hope they do well.

I don't recommend the S2. You either get an R2 or an A7III to be honest if you don't want to spend on an RIII. That MP count with contrast detect AF is a no no.
Yeah I think realistically the A7r3 used, as I do wanna see what that high MP count brings to the table. It's just that A7s series is low light focused. But the r3 is more than fine for my use case.
 
Oct 25, 2017
26,920
Yeah I think realistically the A7r3 used, as I do wanna see what that high MP count brings to the table. It's just that A7s series is low light focused. But the r3 is more than fine for my use case.
A7S series is low light video focused. I would not use that as an event photography camera at all, not to mention slower AF. On top of the price tag for that thing while being outclassed by the A7III and R2 at all things not tied to super duper high iso. It's pretty much a non starter camera for me. Pay that much for second gen body ergonomics? Fuck no.
 

Radec

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,406
Set ISO to the "dpad" wheel, boom, dedicated ISO dial on Sony, but no one ever listens lol

With the amount of customization on Sony bodies these days I don't get the "lacking physical" controls or dials complaints.

On my last Fuji I rarely even touch the ISO dial granted its only an X70 since going up ISO 800 is shit. lol
 

Deleted member 1635

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Oct 25, 2017
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A7S series is low light video focused. I would not use that as an event photography camera at all, not to mention slower AF. On top of the price tag for that thing while being outclassed by the A7III and R2 at all things not tied to super duper high iso. It's pretty much a non starter camera for me. Pay that much for second gen body ergonomics? Fuck no.

I think the A7 III is basically pretty close to the A7S II in terms of low-light capabilities, too.
 
Oct 25, 2017
26,920
I think the A7 III is basically pretty close to the A7S II in terms of low-light capabilities, too.
Yeah as far as I'm concerned the A7SII is not worth the money. I still can't believe I still see people buying them. I've been killing my A7RII doing all of these graduation shoots and the video looks great on it I'm glad I didn't try to buy an SII because I'd probably hate it.
 

nitewulf

Member
Nov 29, 2017
7,204
It depends on your shooting style of course, I follow the native ISO...so I keep it at 160 for the XT3, where there's basically no noise. 80 when I am using ND filter and daylight long exposures. And inside daytime I'm at 160 or 800 which is again, zero noise. And at night 1600, which is minimal noise. But having these dials (not just ISO) enables me to dynamically be ready for changing conditions, whether changing the shutter at a moment's notice to catch something rapid or slow to show motion. Basically they allow you to be incredibly creative.

If you are doing pro work those aren't that important. My brother has been a wedding photographer all his life, and his best friend is a pro concert photographer who tours with bands. They use Canon/Nikon with the 24 - 70 2.8, 70 - 200 2.8, and portrait primes. Consistency is key there.
 
Oct 25, 2017
26,920
It depends on your shooting style of course, I follow the native ISO...so I keep it at 160 for the XT3, where there's basically no noise. 80 when I am using ND filter and daylight long exposures. And inside daytime I'm at 160 or 800 which is again, zero noise. And at night 1600, which is minimal noise. But having these dials (not just ISO) enables me to dynamically be ready for changing conditions, whether changing the shutter at a moment's notice to catch something rapid or slow to show motion. Basically they allow you to be incredibly creative.

If you are doing pro work those aren't that important. My brother has been a wedding photographer all his life, and his best friend is a pro concert photographer who tours with bands. They use Canon/Nikon with the 24 - 70 2.8, 70 - 200 2.8, and portrait primes. Consistency is key there.
There is fun to the dials, but you don't always want to do a second action to get to your next shutter speed range. Sometimes all you have time for is to speedily thumb scroll till you get to your desired exposure. I don't hate the Fuji method but at the same time it's an extra step and no I'm not going to do the dial less method.
 

nitewulf

Member
Nov 29, 2017
7,204
But isn't that what the EC dial is for if you're using a semi-auto mode? I never got used to using the EC, it just doesn't fit my style but there's no right or wrong way to do things.
 
Oct 25, 2017
26,920
But isn't that what the EC dial is for if you're using a semi-auto mode? I never got used to using the EC, it just doesn't fit my style but there's no right or wrong way to do things.
Trust me when I say I don't use either of the two things you're talking about. I pretty like to keep my ISO at a certain level and then control either the shutter speed or the aperture depending what what look I'm going for. I don't use either aperture or shutter priority or even auto ISO that much.
 

Menelaus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,682
But having these dials (not just ISO) enables me to dynamically be ready for changing conditions, whether changing the shutter at a moment's notice to catch something rapid or slow to show motion. Basically they allow you to be incredibly creative.
There is nothing about Fuji dials that make them faster to use than the standard exposure triangle wheels on DSLR-style bodies, including the modern MILCs. In fact, Fuji is far slower at making these adjustments, especially in the dark when you have to pull the cam away from your face.

I will say, though, that there's a definite lag on the A7R3 when rapidly spinning the wheels, the software can't quite keep up with the hardware.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,722
There is nothing about Fuji dials that make them faster to use than the standard exposure triangle wheels on DSLR-style bodies, including the modern MILCs. In fact, Fuji is far slower at making these adjustments, especially in the dark when you have to pull the cam away from your face.

I will say, though, that there's a definite lag on the A7R3 when rapidly spinning the wheels, the software can't quite keep up with the hardware.
Oh no, it's not faster.
It's just 100 times more enjoyable.
 

nitewulf

Member
Nov 29, 2017
7,204
I mean you get used to it, I shot Canon one way, definitely that thumb wheel method to adjust shutter. Then Olympus another way, Fuji is similar to that, I enjoy adjusting everything. Good to have options. Sony can be customized to liking as well.

I keep forgetting I had a Panny GF1 there as well, which was also a pleasure to use.
 
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Deleted member 1635

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Oct 25, 2017
6,800
I will say, though, that there's a definite lag on the A7R3 when rapidly spinning the wheels, the software can't quite keep up with the hardware.

This can be annoying for sure. It's better on the A9, but there are still times when there is noticeable interface lag. Sony chooses to prioritize the live video feed frame rate of the viewfinder/LCD above all else. Fuji seems to prioritize the interface frame rate and sometimes you'll see the live view footage get a bit choppy (at least I did with my X100F).

I'd love to have the option to choose, but I'm hoping the next gen bodies will just be able to keep up better.
 

Menelaus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,682
This can be annoying for sure. It's better on the A9, but there are still times when there is noticeable interface lag. Sony chooses to prioritize the live video feed frame rate of the viewfinder/LCD above all else. Fuji seems to prioritize the interface frame rate and sometimes you'll see the live view footage get a bit choppy (at least I did with my X100F).

I'd love to have the option to choose, but I'm hoping the next gen bodies will just be able to keep up better.
Add to the fact that you can't even navigate the menus when the files are writing to the card...SONY!!!!
 

Deleted member 1635

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Oct 25, 2017
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Dedicated ISO dial is nice if you're aiming for your native ISOs, or keeping them in mind. Auto ISO won't consider the fact that 640 ISO has almost as much noise as 1600 ISO on an XT-2, so I find myself using the ISO dial if I know I'll be over 200 when walking about.

Useful website:

That makes sense. For me at least, most of my photography is "in the moment" stuff, so the only time I find myself manually adjusting ISO is when I am really setting up a shot and have the time to do so. At that point, having a dedicated dial for theoretically quicker access to a specific ISO setting is pretty pointless, since I'm not in a hurry
 

Deleted member 1635

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Add to the fact that you can't even navigate the menus when the files are writing to the card...SONY!!!!

Yeah, I really wonder what their issue is... At least you can access the Fn menu and any overlay function, so I almost never need to menu dive anymore anyway, but it seems like a strange issue to have. I doubt they are using weaker processors than other manufacturers who do not have the problem, so it must just be their software. Also their write to card speeds seem to be slower in general than equivalent cameras from other manufacturers. I really do hope they are spending more resources on improving their software. The latest A9 firmware update certainly gave me some hope in that regard.

Now they just need to give me an option to change the goddamn focus point color or give it some kind of border with a highly visible color.
 

Menelaus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,682
The NDA for the new sony lens(es) expires monday, so we'll see that 200-600 soon.

Apparently they have another "fast tele prime" to announce monday as well. My guess is it's an Olympics lens, either a 300mm or a 600mm. We're never getting the 35/1.8 G are we =(
 

Menelaus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,682
It'll be a good lens for anyone that was adapting the Tamron 150-600. I personally don't need 600mm with regularity, and if I did, I'd rather just throw on a 1.4x TC when I need it. It's really goddamn hard to shoot 600mm without major heat distortion.
 

Deleted member 1635

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Oct 25, 2017
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It'll be a good lens for anyone that was adapting the Tamron 150-600. I personally don't need 600mm with regularity, and if I did, I'd rather just throw on a 1.4x TC when I need it. It's really goddamn hard to shoot 600mm without major heat distortion.

Yeah, I'm interested in seeing comparisons between it and the 100-400 GM with 1.4x TC. I've been eyeing that setup for a long time now.
 

Deleted member 1635

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Oct 25, 2017
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It's so easy to nudge, though. I can't count the number of times I've accidentally taken a series at ISO 50 because I scooted it off AUTO on accident and didn't notice for a few shots.

Yeah, that happened to me a lot when I experimented with the setting. I currently have no function bound to the wheel because of it. I think the default of, right direction click then wheel works pretty well.
 
Oct 25, 2017
26,920
I just want something announced that will make the current bodies cheaper. An Olympics lens makes sense since it's next year and they want that sports photographer dollar.
 

Menelaus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,682
Saw this and laughed a little too hard.

09-E4794-F-4-B80-4-CFD-BDAE-FFC793-ADF124.jpg
 

Menelaus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,682
Looks like Fuji is releasing some Acros stock with reworked chemistry. Would be curious to shoot this and compare to Ilford, if I ever get my Canonete fixed.

Neopan-Acros-100-II-720x371.jpg
 

Menelaus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,682
Currently waiting for Fuji to announce a non GFX lens that I would actually want.
The 16-80/4 and 33/1 are the last 2 on the roadmap. Not sure what other types of lenses they would even want to make, unless they came out with some MkII versions of the 23/1.4 and 56/1.2

I'm more interested to see if they move to the new Sony 32mp APS-C sensor next gen.
 

nitewulf

Member
Nov 29, 2017
7,204
Yeah, I mean they have the APS-C range well covered with the primes and zooms, and then filling them out some practical lenses as well as exotics.
 
Oct 25, 2017
26,920
The 16-80/4 and 33/1 are the last 2 on the roadmap. Not sure what other types of lenses they would even want to make, unless they came out with some MkII versions of the 23/1.4 and 56/1.2

I'm more interested to see if they move to the new Sony 32mp APS-C sensor next gen.
I give absolutely zero shits about the 16-80F4. New 23 1.4 and 56 1.2 would be good though just so they can make something with faster and more accurate AF. The AF on the 56 is fucking dodgy. I either had the AF box too big or the thing just kept focusing on her hair, but on my last shoot it missed way too many shots unless it's just soft until you stop down to F2. I think my biggest problem is that I probably just have everything I could use for the most part outside of "Do I really need this?" lenses like the 80mm and the 16 1.4. Whatever sensor they move to needs to be a clear step up from what they currently have because the X-T3 literally just seems like the X-T2 with quicker AF and more AF points. It's a great camera yes, but I really feel like I should've waited on it.
Yeah, I mean they have the APS-C range well covered with the primes and zooms, and then filling them out some practical lenses as well as exotics.
Sometimes I just feel like I want too much. I love the system and still want to use it, but I'm not really given anything to look forward to these days. New body at some point yes, but not lenses.
 
Oct 27, 2017
187
Looks like Fuji is releasing some Acros stock with reworked chemistry. Would be curious to shoot this and compare to Ilford, if I ever get my Canonete fixed.

Neopan-Acros-100-II-720x371.jpg
My hope is that they will have managed to retain the incredible reciprocity characteristics. No exposure compensation until 120 seconds and then only half a stop more exposure until 1000 seconds is awsome for pinhole and long exposure photography.
I still have about 20 rolls of the discontinued emulsion in 35mm in my freezer, but I'll definitely get a few pro packs in 120 format once it's released.
 

Menelaus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,682
My hope is that they will have managed to retain the incredible reciprocity characteristics. No exposure compensation until 120 seconds and then only half a stop more exposure until 1000 seconds is awsome for pinhole and long exposure photography.
I still have about 20 rolls of the discontinued emulsion in 35mm in my freezer, but I'll definitely get a few pro packs in 120 format once it's released.
Speaking of 120, do you think Ektar 100 is a decent stock to start out with?
 
Oct 27, 2017
187
Speaking of 120, do you think Ektar 100 is a decent stock to start out with?
Ektar 100 is very nice modern, high resolution film. There's a couple caveats: some say that scans are difficult to colour correct in post and it has a tendency to render skin as pink. The skin colour issue can be mitigated by post processing the scans. Kodak datasheet rates the film exposure tolerance at two stops over and one stop under, but it is possible to get usable shots at two stops under. It will most likely deal just fine with more overexposure than the official rating of two stops too.
It's a better start to medium format than me shooting some Velvia 100 that was six years out of date 😄 Especially in discussions online, Ektar is regarded as a film stock especially good for landscapes. Give it a try, just remember to carry a tripod with your RZ67.
 

Menelaus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,682
Ektar 100 is very nice modern, high resolution film. There's a couple caveats: some say that scans are difficult to colour correct in post and it has a tendency to render skin as pink. The skin colour issue can be mitigated by post processing the scans. Kodak datasheet rates the film exposure tolerance at two stops over and one stop under, but it is possible to get usable shots at two stops under. It will most likely deal just fine with more overexposure than the official rating of two stops too.
It's a better start to medium format than me shooting some Velvia 100 that was six years out of date 😄 Especially in discussions online, Ektar is regarded as a film stock especially good for landscapes. Give it a try, just remember to carry a tripod with your RZ67.
Thank you very much! I'll give it a go once I replace the focusing screen and get the mirrorbox cleaned up.