CamERA Equipment |OT| Photon Capturing Comparison Club

JadedWriter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,753
Mostly just landscapes/portraits, I'm a hobbyist so not looking to do any professional work with it. I was also looking at the D750 but the prices in Finland are quite a bit more than the D610 at the moment, even used. So the AF points aren't that big of a deal to me since I wouldn't be doing any action photography. Mainly looking to get the best image quality tbh. Guess the D610 would be the best option.
610 is fine then or look for used D800E's.
 

Zefah

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,890
I just want a reasonably-sized and light 35mm f/1.8... I still can't believe this doesn't exist for FE yet.
 

Aerocrane

Member
Oct 27, 2017
154
finland
Mostly just landscapes/portraits, I'm a hobbyist so not looking to do any professional work with it. I was also looking at the D750 but the prices in Finland are quite a bit more than the D610 at the moment, even used. So the AF points aren't that big of a deal to me since I wouldn't be doing any action photography. Mainly looking to get the best image quality tbh. Guess the D610 would be the best option.
You can get a used D750 with mere 9718 shuttercount for 999€ https://www.kameraliike.fi/epages/kameraliike.sf/fi_FI/?ObjectPath=/Shops/2015043003/Products/kaytnikond750-6717
OmaEtsin.fi is useful for searching for used camera offerings as it indexes used sections of retailers and for sale sections of digicamera.net and kameralaukku.com forums.
 

uzipukki

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,073

JadedWriter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,753
You can get a used D750 with mere 9718 shuttercount for 999€ https://www.kameraliike.fi/epages/kameraliike.sf/fi_FI/?ObjectPath=/Shops/2015043003/Products/kaytnikond750-6717
OmaEtsin.fi is useful for searching for used camera offerings as it indexes used sections of retailers and for sale sections of digicamera.net and kameralaukku.com forums.
This would be a pretty good get. I heard finding used equipment was a pain in the ass in Europe so had no idea where to look.
 

Custódio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,144
Brazil, Unaí/MG
Some dude wanted to buy his wife a complete camera/lens set, so I just sold him my 6DMKII, 24-105, 50mm 1.4 and 85mm 1.8.

I don't really liked that 50mm. The 85 was very good, but I want to save money for the 85 1.4 with IS instead. The zoom lens was ok but I don't really needed it. I was left with the 35mm F/2 IS and the 135mm F/2. That 35mm has being my workhouse, using it so much that I want to save money for a 1.4 now. The 135 will take care of my portraits.

Ordered the EOS R with the adapter.
 

Menelaus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,682
The Canon 85/1.8 is pretty much trash wide open. I'd swap your 35/2 for the 35/1.8 RF quite honestly. If you get a 50mm on the RF system, it NEEDS to be the 50/1.2. Accept nothing else.
 

Custódio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,144
Brazil, Unaí/MG
The Canon 85/1.8 is pretty much trash wide open. I'd swap your 35/2 for the 35/1.8 RF quite honestly. If you get a 50mm on the RF system, it NEEDS to be the 50/1.2. Accept nothing else.
Yeah, that RF 35/1.8 is almost the same price as mine, so I can just sell one and get the other.

I would love to get the RF 50/1.2, I actually quite like the focal lenght, just didn't like my lens itself. Either way I can't justify its cost now. I don't think it's even oficially released in my country to be honest, so perhaps one year from now it will be cheaper.

My plan is to get native RF lenses, but very, very slowly.
 

Ivalice

Member
Oct 25, 2017
712
Leica has introduced a new M-E model designed to give users access to the M system at a lower price than would usually be required to buy one of its rangefinders. The M-E (Typ 240) replaces the M-E (Typ 220) first introduced in 2017 and delivers several upgraded features. The new model offers a 24MP CMOS sensor that matches the resolution of the top end M10-P but which has an ISO range limited to 200-6400.

Details are still a bit thin on the ground as Leica hasn’t released any further technical specifications yet, but retailers are advertising the M-E (Typ 240) for £3500 / $3995 body only. The camera is set to be available at the end of July 2019.

For more information see the Leica website.

That is a great price. They should sell loads of these.
 

Menelaus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,682
I just look at shooting experience and if it’s fun to use as my #1 criteria tbh. These days all cameras on the market are capable of amazing photos and if purely tech specs were to be considered I’d just buy a D850 lol.
The point is the overall digital camera market is cratering, and you get far less for your dollar with Leica than with other traditional brands for even less money than Leica. Leica has always been a small niche, but it’s only getting smaller.
 

JadedWriter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,753
I just look at shooting experience and if it’s fun to use as my #1 criteria tbh. These days all cameras on the market are capable of amazing photos and if purely tech specs were to be considered I’d just buy a D850 lol.
I get the fun aspect because I don't use anything I don't enjoy shooting with, it really just turns into a matter of "is it worth it to me?" and a $4k manual focus rangefinder doesn't really fit that since it's a camera that I can't even freelance with. I'm really not in that demographic. Like the most I'd drop on a Leica would be $1200 and that turns into an extra mount to invest into and another camera to learn that will probably look like almost everything else that I currently shoot on.
 

Ivalice

Member
Oct 25, 2017
712
The point is the overall digital camera market is cratering, and you get far less for your dollar with Leica than with other traditional brands for even less money than Leica. Leica has always been a small niche, but it’s only getting smaller.
I don’t believe that is correct. Leica financial statements: sales increased for the fifth year in a row. The company has bucked the trend and is only growing bigger every year. They’re absolutely a niche but that is working for them. Something relatively affordable like the new M-E should sell quite a bit.
 

Menelaus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,682
I don’t believe that is correct. Leica financial statements: sales increased for the fifth year in a row. The company has bucked the trend and is only growing bigger every year. They’re absolutely a niche but that is working for them. Something relatively affordable like the new M-E should sell quite a bit.
Financial statements don’t mean much when it’s a diversified company, a lot of that money was coming from Huawei cell phones which are completely dead for the time being now.

I’m happy to be wrong, but unless there is sales data regarding dedicated cameras to support it, I’m pretty confident I’m not.
 

Ivalice

Member
Oct 25, 2017
712
Financial statements don’t mean much when it’s a diversified company, a lot of that money was coming from Huawei cell phones which are completely dead for the time being now.

I’m happy to be wrong, but unless there is sales data regarding dedicated cameras to support it, I’m pretty confident I’m not.
Sure, that’s fair. Article says it’s specifically about sales but given they are a private company hard data may be difficult to come by.
 

nitewulf

Member
Nov 29, 2017
1,324
I'm all for a relatively affordable fixed lens camera from Leica w/ a 1.4 lens. MF + low light just doesn't make sense anymore.
 

Zefah

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,890
Leica will never make sense for you or any working photographer. They're selling prestige and feeling, not functionality.
 

Ivalice

Member
Oct 25, 2017
712
Even as a hobbyist if I can even think in that mind set anymore. It's just a disposable income prestige purchase.
How so? A “prestige purchase” usually means something that is easily recognizable by the average person like a Rolex or Lamborghini. A clear status symbol. I would wager vast majority of people on the street have no clue what a Leica camera is. Leica is more akin to something highly specialized and niche like Phase One or Hasselblad. Both very specific tools with specialized uses, in Leica’s case being rangefinder focusing. If someone wants a digital rangefinder it’s the only game in town.
 

JadedWriter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,753
How so? A “prestige purchase” usually means something that is easily recognizable by the average person like a Rolex or Lamborghini. A clear status symbol. I would wager vast majority of people on the street have no clue what a Leica camera is. Leica is more akin to something highly specialized and niche like Phase One or Hasselblad. Both very specific tools with specialized uses, in Leica’s case being rangefinder focusing. If someone wants a digital rangefinder it’s the only game in town.
You really might be under valuing the reach and prestige status of the Leica brand with this post. I have seen more Leica cameras than I have Rolex's from street photographers to people buying them in B&H to a guy I saw at Photo Tech while waiting for a repair. You can probably make this post work for someone not living in Manhattan, but it's not biting with me. I'm willing to bet that Leica is more of a household name than Phase One is since Leica is pretty much synonymous with photographic art. Did Cartier Bresson shoot with a Hasseblad or Phase One? No he shot on a Leica. I cover events, seen a good amount of journalistic and event photographers, never saw one with a Leica. One really has to need and want a digital rangefinder for the purchase to sit well with them. Not saying they don't exist, I'm just a person that looks at the end result which is the image, none of it justifies the price tag, especially after hearing about a series of cameras coming out with a corroded sensor defect so you're not even really paying for hand made precision. You can't excuse something like that from Nikon so one can't even excuse that from a manufacturer that charged 400% what a Nikon costs. I don't hate the cameras, I hate the price tag. It turns into what am I getting. "Manual focus digital rangefinder" Ok, so how does that impact my images? Since the manual focus right there eradicates the ease of use and fun factor for me at almost 3x what I paid for a lot of my cameras. I'd like to at least possibly get a Leica that's $1200 and doesn't strip out a bunch of features that I'd use, which is probably a product that doesn't exist.
 

Ivalice

Member
Oct 25, 2017
712
You really might be under valuing the reach and prestige status of the Leica brand with this post. I have seen more Leica cameras than I have Rolex's from street photographers to people buying them in B&H to a guy I saw at Photo Tech while waiting for a repair. You can probably make this post work for someone not living in Manhattan, but it's not biting with me. I'm willing to bet that Leica is more of a household name than Phase One is since Leica is pretty much synonymous with photographic art. Did Cartier Bresson shoot with a Hasseblad or Phase One? No he shot on a Leica. I cover events, seen a good amount of journalistic and event photographers, never saw one with a Leica. One really has to need and want a digital rangefinder for the purchase to sit well with them. Not saying they don't exist, I'm just a person that looks at the end result which is the image, none of it justifies the price tag, especially after hearing about a series of cameras coming out with a corroded sensor defect so you're not even really paying for hand made precision. You can't excuse something like that from Nikon so one can't even excuse that from a manufacturer that charged 400% what a Nikon costs. I don't hate the cameras, I hate the price tag. It turns into what am I getting. "Manual focus digital rangefinder" Ok, so how does that impact my images? Since the manual focus right there eradicates the ease of use and fun factor for me at almost 3x what I paid for a lot of my cameras. I'd like to at least possibly get a Leica that's $1200 and doesn't strip out a bunch of features that I'd use, which is probably a product that doesn't exist.
I wasn’t talking about other photographers or people buying cameras. I’m talking about the average person, which a Rolex or Lamborghini is immediately recognizable. Leica doesn’t fit into that category. Hence why I’m skeptical calling the brand a “prestige purchase”. Obviously in the hobby and industry it’s a well-known historic brand that put out workhorses with amazing optics, but there exists a world outside of that.

In any case, I want to make it clear I think anyone buying a Leica (or any camera, really) as a status symbol is ridiculous. But I’m also skeptical how widespread such a phenomenon even is, since I only ever see it mentioned in disparaging contexts like camera fanboy wars.
 

uzipukki

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,073
Update, the D750 is on hold for me at the site Aerocrane linked and will buy it on friday when I get my salary. Super excited. Seems like it will be a huge upgrade to my dead D80.
 

JadedWriter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,753
I wasn’t talking about other photographers or people buying cameras. I’m talking about the average person, which a Rolex or Lamborghini is immediately recognizable. Leica doesn’t fit into that category. Hence why I’m skeptical calling the brand a “prestige purchase”. Obviously in the hobby and industry it’s a well-known historic brand that put out workhorses with amazing optics, but there exists a world outside of that.

In any case, I want to make it clear I think anyone buying a Leica (or any camera, really) as a status symbol is ridiculous. But I’m also skeptical how widespread such a phenomenon even is, since I only ever see it mentioned in disparaging contexts like camera fanboy wars.
Dude your average everyday person is dumb as fuck and I honestly don't think they can tell the difference between a Lamborghini or a Ferrari even though they are both owned by the same company. Your average person buys Rebels, I honestly don't care about those people and to be honest neither does Leica. Also anything that costs what a Leica costs is a prestige purchase. That person can buy whatever the hell they want, but they chose a Leica. It's a luxury item.
This is an old, but interesting read:
Click if You Can Afford It
 

JadedWriter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,753
The old f1.8 50mm but will be getting one more at some point. Not sure just yet what it will be. Maybe the 24-85mm f3.5-4.5. But will also look at second hand, seem to be pretty good deals to be had when going that route.
Look at secondhand Tamron 2.8 24-70's. I've just never been a fan of the variable aperture stuff, I'm indoors way too much.
 

Zefah

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,890
Lol I know a few professional editorialist that shoot exclusively on Leica.
Not saying you can't make it work or get great results from them. Just that dollar for dollar, their offering in terms of functionality is terrible. In objective terms, they excel at nothing and cost more than everyone else that isn't super specialized. That said, I'm sure there are lots of people that love the feeling and simplicity they provide and don't like shooting with other cameras.
 

JadedWriter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,753
Not saying you can't make it work or get great results from them. Just that dollar for dollar, their offering in terms of functionality is terrible. In objective terms, they excel at nothing and cost more than everyone else that isn't super specialized. That said, I'm sure there are lots of people that love the feeling and simplicity they provide and don't like shooting with other cameras.
I think the whole thing depends on how much you care about your camera being as simplistic as possible. "I want my camera to be a camera and not a computer," there's your Leica crowd. I want the whole thing to make sense and dollar for dollar be a smart decision. I can basically learn my cameras pretty damn fast and then get used to them. How much complaining do I do regarding my A7RII compared to how much I did when I first started?