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Oct 25, 2017
26,923
Yeah, the A7R III is definitely a better all-rounder. No doubt about that. I wanted to get the A9 since it was announced, but I was waiting to see what Sony announced next. I was hoping the stacked sensor that allows for distortion-free continuous silent shooting with the electronic shutter would be going into all of their models, but that wasn't to be, unfortunately. The distortion and banding with the A7R II's electronic shutter is pretty bad and I doubt it will be improved much for the III. The A7R III is definitely better in terms of the mechanical shutter frame rate (and 10 FPS with 42 MP images is pretty crazy anyway), as well as other features like improved eye-detect auto-focus, having a USB 3.1 (type C) connection, and some more stuff. I'm sure the A9 II will have all of that and more, and most people would probably be better served waiting for that.
Yeah that makes sense. Certain things I just don't care about, like 4K. I don't like video editing or sending large files so that's probably never going to be a selling point for me unless I was actually a freelance videographer. I do it for work, but video work isn't exactly a super passion of mine.
 

Reckoner

Member
Oct 26, 2017
268
Handled some cameras today and I am surprised at how much better the X-T20 is in hand than what I expected from reading impressions on the Internet. It's actually more comfortable to hold than the Olympus E-M5, for example.
 
Oct 25, 2017
26,923
Handled some cameras today and I am surprised at how much better the X-T20 is in hand than what I expected from reading impressions on the Internet. It's actually more comfortable to hold than the Olympus E-M5, for example.
It's not bad at all, just depends on the size of the glass you'll have hanging off the front end of it. Any of the 2.8 zooms? Get the XT-2. Any of the smaller F2 primes, which is what it's designed for or the kit lens? You're fine.
 
Oct 25, 2017
26,923
One of my corporate head shots is being printed and officially used for a newly appointed Trustee. First time it's happened.
giphy.webp
 

FoxSpirit

Banned
Nov 3, 2017
68
Image doesn't show.

Also man, the X-E2 makes great JPEGs. All I wish is to reach that as baseline in my edits with Lightroom but that thing is a drag. At least the conversion from raw is similar but I have this one image where I can't for my life get the colours in the jpeg and raw to align.
Lastly, nightshots on my smartphone with OLED display vs my monitor... it's a murder. Have to try that later on a big 55" OLED with 4k. Should be a good test how the grain from 6400 iso really looks.
 
Oct 25, 2017
26,923
Image doesn't show.

Also man, the X-E2 makes great JPEGs. All I wish is to reach that as baseline in my edits with Lightroom but that thing is a drag. At least the conversion from raw is similar but I have this one image where I can't for my life get the colours in the jpeg and raw to align.
Lastly, nightshots on my smartphone with OLED display vs my monitor... it's a murder. Have to try that later on a big 55" OLED with 4k. Should be a good test how the grain from 6400 iso really looks.
I honestly don't even use the jpegs out of my XT2 anymore. I just shoot in negative pro standard so I can get raws that actually make some sense and edit to taste from there. I used to use Vivid but you don't exactly get an accurate approximation of what shit looks like and you'll get raws that might be too under exposed. If I have to I'll apply the film simulation in post but I mostly just use one of the B&W ones if i want to.
 

sixteen-bit

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,680
Which APS-C compact comera is the best? Cute video...


Thanks for sharing this. I have been thinking about getting a point and shoot camera like the Ricoh GR II or Fuji X70 for some time. I have also considered getting something like an Olympus TG-5 since I could be rough and careless with it and play around with underwater photography. Definitely want to test all three personally before making a commitment though.
 

BojTrek

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
337
Chicago
Is there a video camcorder section? I just bought the Sony FDR-AX33 moving up from the Sony HDR-SR11... I loved my old camera, it still produces great 1080p videos... but it was getting wonky and it was time to upgrade.

Anywhere I can go chat/discuss camcorders in the Era?
 

FoxSpirit

Banned
Nov 3, 2017
68
I honestly don't even use the jpegs out of my XT2 anymore. I just shoot in negative pro standard so I can get raws that actually make some sense and edit to taste from there. I used to use Vivid but you don't exactly get an accurate approximation of what shit looks like and you'll get raws that might be too under exposed. If I have to I'll apply the film simulation in post but I mostly just use one of the B&W ones if i want to.
Huh? Shouldn't RAW just be the sensor data exposured? Film mode shouldn't make any difference? Maybe I don't get it right.

BojTrek, this thread should be okay. Actually something good to shoot small 1 hour performances is next on my list.
 
Oct 25, 2017
26,923
Huh? Shouldn't RAW just be the sensor data exposured? Film mode shouldn't make any difference? Maybe I don't get it right.
Pretty much it gives you the read out based on what your settings are. I was under exposing a lot while I was shooting under the color profile of vivid, Neg Pro Standard is just more accurate to reality than something like Vivid which exaggerates things. I think it's something you'll notice more if you work more with raws and ignore the jpegs.
 
Oct 25, 2017
26,923
It's just raw data. Probably LR is applying simulation profile on it if it detects that you are using them.
No. When you're looking through the evf with Vivid and Negative pro standard they don't look the same and if you compensate to change something they'll look differently. If you're adjusting based on what your eye sees and not light meter settings you'll flub a couple of things like under expose your raws or be too dark in your shadows. Surely I cannot be the only person to come to this conclusion. Vivid isn't a true to life simulation. Neg Pro Standard is less exaggerated. If you're correcting an exaggeration the non exaggerated raw will suffer a bit. If you're not bothering to look at the raw file you wouldn't even notice.
 

ruggiex

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,085
No. When you're looking through the evf with Vivid and Negative pro standard they don't look the same and if you compensate to change something they'll look differently. If you're adjusting based on what your eye sees and not light meter settings you'll flub a couple of things like under expose your raws or be too dark in your shadows. Surely I cannot be the only person to come to this conclusion. Vivid isn't a true to life simulation. Neg Pro Standard is less exaggerated. If you're correcting an exaggeration the non exaggerated raw will suffer a bit.

Ah. Yea I don't pay attention to what I see in EVF, just light meter and histogram or clipped highlights so I never noticed that. I guess I should change my settings. That is kind of evil and unproductive if it's doing that, lol. But it makes sense that it does since it's the same image it would output to if you were shooting jpeg. #OVF4life
 
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Oct 25, 2017
26,923
Ah. Yea I don't pay attention to what I see in EVF, just light meter and histogram or clipped highlights so I never noticed that. That is kind of evil and unproductive if it's doing that, lol. (But it makes sense that it does since it's the same image it would output to if you were shooting jpeg.) #OVF4life
Yeah I do tend to prefer OVF myself, but at the very least I use both dslr and mirrorless enough not to really be bothered by the switches. It's becoming mostly a matter of finding a baseline and just paying attention to everything. Now when you're doing studio light and flash work EVF don't help anything. You can't really predict what you're going to get till you take the pic and then just work your way into a good picture from there.
 

ruggiex

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,085
There's really not that much to pay attention to. As long as the data fits in histogram you can adjust it in post. The only important part is the data need to fit within the histogram. That's why I don't care what the image looks like (or even thought about why it looks so shitty in the EVF with my current settings until now). And the EVF advantage - what you see is what you get - really doesn't apply to me.
 
Oct 25, 2017
26,923
There's really not that much to pay attention to. As long as the data fits in histogram you can adjust it in post. The only important part is the data need to fit within the histogram. That's why I don't care what the image looks like (or even thought about why it looks so shitty in the EVF with my current settings until now). And the EVF advantage - what you see is what you get - really doesn't apply to me.
I will admit that the evf is a bit "dark" on the XT2. If I follow the light meter it just looks under exposed, though that might be more accurate. I have gotten used to it though. Luckily I can post well.
 

Deleted member 1635

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,800
There's really not that much to pay attention to. As long as the data fits in histogram you can adjust it in post. The only important part is the data need to fit within the histogram. That's why I don't care what the image looks like (or even thought about why it looks so shitty in the EVF with my current settings until now). And the EVF advantage - what you see is what you get - really doesn't apply to me.

Being able to view depth of field in real time doesn't matter to you?
 

ruggiex

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,085
Being able to view depth of field in real time doesn't matter to you?

If it's on-the-go situation, I have shot enough to know what settings I need in what situation. If it's critical enough that I'm on a tripod, I'm still using LCD screen and zooming in regardless of OVF or EVF. So no, it doesn't matter. And I can MF just fine with an OVF especially with focus confirmation.
 
Oct 25, 2017
26,923
If it's on-the-go situation, I have shot enough to know what settings I need in what situation. If it's critical enough that I'm on a tripod, I'm still using LCD screen and zooming in regardless of OVF or EVF. So no, it doesn't matter. And I can MF just fine with an OVF especially with focus confirmation.
Long story short technology doesn't override skill and experience.
 

Deleted member 1635

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,800
I don't think anyone has made that claim. Technology just makes things easier and more accessible.

I'll never understand the romanticism of arbitrarily drawing a line at the level of technology you are personally familiar and comfortable with and declaring that no more could ever be needed (nor desired) by anyone.

If it's on-the-go situation, I have shot enough to know what settings I need in what situation. If it's critical enough that I'm on a tripod, I'm still using LCD screen and zooming in regardless of OVF or EVF. So no, it doesn't matter. And I can MF just fine with an OVF especially with focus confirmation.

With the above said, it does make sense to go with what you're comfortable using. If you don't feel like you need it, I won't try to convince you otherwise.
 
Oct 25, 2017
26,923
I don't think anyone has made that claim. Technology just makes things easier and more accessible.

I'll never understand the romanticism of arbitrarily drawing a line at the level of technology you are personally familiar and comfortable with and declaring that no more could ever be needed (nor desired) by anyone.



With the above said, it does make sense to go with what you're comfortable using. If you don't feel like you need it, I won't try to convince you otherwise.
Tech helps, it's not supposed to be a crutch. If said piece of tech decides to go weird would you be able to compensate for it. That's my line of thought.
 
Oct 25, 2017
26,923
So go manual focus only with a film camera and exclusively develop your photos in an actual darkroom? Again, the line you're drawing is completely arbitrary.
No because I wouldn't be able to do shit. I like a good balance of tech and skill. You could bring a camera with all the tech you want to a photo shoot, but if you don't know jack about lighting and angles you're fucked. It's the obtrusive level of tech that gets in the way that I don't like. It's the reason why I turn off face detection and eye detect. Do I like EVF's? Yes. Would I be shit out of luck if I had a camera without and EVF? No, I'd be perfectly fine. I like tech that accentuates the photographer and not something that's kind of there to override the skill of the photographer.
 

Deleted member 1635

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,800
No because I wouldn't be able to do shit. I like a good balance of tech and skill. You could bring a camera with all the tech you want to a photo shoot, but if you don't know jack about lighting and angles you're fucked. It's the obtrusive level of tech that gets in the way that I don't like. It's the reason why I turn off face detection and eye detect. Do I like EVF's? Yes. Would I be shit out of luck if I had a camera without and EVF? No, I'd be perfectly fine. I like tech that accentuates the photographer and not something that's kind of there to override the skill of the photographer.

Everything you're saying in regards to technology is completely subjective and arbitrary based on your own personal preferences. There is no objective definition of "tech that accentuates the photographer" and tech that is "obtrusive" or "overkill". It's all in the eye of the beholder and if it enables a photographer to get a shot they otherwise would not have, then it's beneficial.
 
Oct 25, 2017
26,923
Everything you're saying in regards to technology is completely subjective and arbitrary based on your own personal preferences. There is no objective definition of "tech that accentuates the photographer" and tech that is "obtrusive" or "overkill". It's all in the eye of the beholder and if it enables a photographer to get a shot they otherwise would not have, then it's beneficial.
Trust me. Face detect with street photography is obtrusive.
 

Deleted member 1635

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,800
Trust me. Face detect with street photography is obtrusive.

Yes, it's a good idea to turn off face detect in certain situations. I don't really see how can it be both a crutch and obtrusive at the same time. It simply doesn't work in a crowd, so it can't be a crutch. I don't think anyone completely relies on face detect without also knowing how to manually select an autofocus point or area as well.

Sometimes you want to override autofocus completely to really dial in focus manually. Is autofocus a cruch in modern photography, too?

My point is that this stuff is just totally subjective when it comes to whether you find a technology useful ir not.
 
Oct 25, 2017
26,923
Yes, it's a good idea to turn off face detect in certain situations. I don't really see how can it be both a crutch and obtrusive at the same time. It simply doesn't work in a crowd, so it can't be a crutch. I don't think anyone completely relies on face detect without also knowing how to manually select an autofocus point or area as well.

Sometimes you want to override autofocus completely to really dial in focus manually. Is autofocus a cruch in modern photography, too?

My point is that this stuff is just totally subjective when it comes to whether you find a technology useful ir not.
No I don't consider AF that much of a crutch because I'm honestly shit at manual focusing. Though with regards to face detect I see a lot of people on youtube just using face detect in portrait sessions and just holding down the shutter a lot, it's not 100% accurate. Though I have admitted several times to being weirded out by several things that run counter intuitive to how I shoot.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,722
Everything other than setting up a pitch black tent, cutting a hole in the fabric, and tracing the image flipped upside down projected through the pinhole is a crutch.

Or, alternatively, there are no crutches, and tools improve over time. I don't think a mechanic would be bitching about someone using a monkey wrench over a regular wrench because "but in my day we didn't need no monkey wrenches we just readjusted the thing 20,000 times".

And, again, your lines of what is or is not a crutch is arbitrary, based on the things you can do. You can't MF? AF isn't a crutch. You can MF? Af is a crutch.
You can develop in a dark room? Digital is a crutch. Can't develop film? Digital is not a crutch.
 

Deleted member 1635

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,800
Why do I always get the feeling that the only person that understood what I meant when I said that was Rugalz?

I think we all understand what you mean and Rugalz (ruggiex here?) just happens to have similar preferences in terms of which technologies are useful and which are not (although you seem to somewhat disagree in regards to EVF).

As Astral said, everything beyond the absolute bare minimum requirements to accomplish a task is by definition not necessary. Everything beyond that is just a nice to have, but I don't see why anyone would argue against having more useful tools in the tool box for when they might want to take advantage of them. To do so is just a form of romantic Luddism or stems from a desire to look down on others who may prefer such options as if they are inferior photographers for wanting to take advantage of new tools.

No I don't consider AF that much of a crutch because I'm honestly shit at manual focusing. Though with regards to face detect I see a lot of people on youtube just using face detect in portrait sessions and just holding down the shutter a lot, it's not 100% accurate. Though I have admitted several times to being weirded out by several things that run counter intuitive to how I shoot.

If it gets the job done, then why not? I doubt these people would be satisfied with the results if the shots weren't in focus. The creativity comes in setting up the scene and the lighting, posing the figure, and deciding on the composition. If the focus achieved with the face detect autofocus is the photographer's desired result, why do anything else?
 
Oct 25, 2017
26,923
I think we all understand what you mean and Rugalz (ruggiex here?) just happens to have similar preferences in terms of which technologies are useful and which are not (although you seem to somewhat disagree in regards to EVF).

As Astral said, everything beyond the absolute bare minimum requirements to accomplish a task is by definition not necessary. Everything beyond that is just a nice to have, but I don't see why anyone would argue against having more useful tools in the tool box for when they might want to take advantage of them. To do so is just a form of romantic Luddism or stems from a desire to look down on others who may prefer such options as if they are inferior photographers for wanting to take advantage of new tools.



If it gets the job done, then why not? I doubt these people would be satisfied with the results if the shots weren't in focus. The creativity comes in setting up the scene and the lighting, posing the figure, and deciding on the composition. If the focus achieved with the face detect autofocus is the photographer's desired result, why do anything else?
I don't hate the EVF. I just find it weird when a photographer considers it impossible to use anything but. Do I like the one I have on my XT2? Yes would I drop my Nikon system because there isn't one? No. I can get results with both. Don't get me wrong. I like tech. I like it a lot, I think I just have a really bad habit of trying to have a discussion with people on here regarding why they need such and such specific tech. I was once a straight up noob regarding photography at one point and learned without all of the stuff some of the people here have at their disposal. So I'm just trying to figure out why such and such tech is integral to their experience. Some prefer flippy screens, I just usually tend to prefer getting down in the muck to get said shot...unless the muck is horse shit.
 

Milk Lizard

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
963
TOBYHANNA, Pa
Prefer Canon as my dad also used that (and i used to, before i killed my last one on holidays...) so we can share lenses. EOS 750D seems like a decent deal? Will wait for black friday of course, but tell me if there is anything slightly more expensive that I shouldn't miss out on instead, or if it's worth considering switching to nikon. Would like to not go that far above the price of 750d.

I do a pretty wide variety of photos really and will be buying more lenses as I go.
 
Oct 25, 2017
26,923
Prefer Canon as my dad also used that (and i used to, before i killed my last one on holidays...) so we can share lenses. EOS 750D seems like a decent deal? Will wait for black friday of course, but tell me if there is anything slightly more expensive that I shouldn't miss out on instead, or if it's worth considering switching to nikon. Would like to not go that far above the price of 750d.

I do a pretty wide variety of photos really and will be buying more lenses as I go.
If you already have Canon lenses then get a 70D. I do not like Rebel or any of the econo line cameras. If it's your second camera then just step up to something that isn't built like a toy.
 

ruggiex

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,085
Thanks for sharing this. I have been thinking about getting a point and shoot camera like the Ricoh GR II or Fuji X70 for some time. I have also considered getting something like an Olympus TG-5 since I could be rough and careless with it and play around with underwater photography. Definitely want to test all three personally before making a commitment though.

You might be interested in this video he did doing direct comparisons. Depends on what you typically shoot some features might be more preferable on one over the other. There's a chance GRii might get an update soon though as it's showing backordered at many places.

 
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Deleted member 1635

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,800
I don't hate the EVF. I just find it weird when a photographer considers it impossible to use anything but.

Serious question, but has anyone ever actually said this? I've never seen such a statement in this thread or the previous one on the other board. Voicing a preference for something does not mean the person cannot live without--just that they would prefer not to.

Do I like the one I have on my XT2? Yes would I drop my Nikon system because there isn't one? No. I can get results with both.

I feel like whenever you do this, you're insinuating that others cannot. I just don't understand who you're talking to when you make statements like this.

Don't get me wrong. I like tech. I like it a lot, I think I just have a really bad habit of trying to have a discussion with people on here regarding why they need such and such specific tech. I was once a straight up noob regarding photography at one point and learned without all of the stuff some of the people here have at their disposal. So I'm just trying to figure out why such and such tech is integral to their experience. Some prefer flippy screens, I just usually tend to prefer getting down in the muck to get said shot...unless the muck is horse shit.

I feel like you're being a bit disingenuous. I get the impression that you don't actually care why someone might feel like a certain piece of tech is integral (or at least preferred) to their experience and you are more interested in telling people why they don't actually need something because *you* don't feel like you need that thing.

Again, that's just the impression I get from a lot of your posts, and maybe I'm wrong. I feel like a bit of an asshole for calling you out on this since I really do like your posts and input otherwise.
 
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