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Schlep

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,772
This is BioShock, to me. The original had a great story, but the gameplay was objectively bad. The second one had much improved gameplay, but the story felt like an afterthought. I wish we could get a remaster of BioShock 1 with the gameplay adjustments from the second.
 

SofNascimento

cursed
Member
Oct 28, 2017
21,276
São Paulo - Brazil
Yes.

Take Planescape: Torment for example. It's gameplay is basic to the point almost non-existence. It's an interactive book in a way. Yet its story and setting makes it one of the great RPGs. But its shortcomings in gameplay stop it from being in the shortlist of the greatests.
 

Admiral Woofington

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
14,892
I was waiting for the guys fumbling over themselves to get here and say Witcher 3. I was about to say that ERA for once disappointed, but nope lmao.
 

Torpedo Vegas

Member
Oct 27, 2017
22,580
Parts Unknown.
Skyrim?
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I'm not even trolling, lol. The actual gameplay in Elder Scrolls (combat, etc.) is abysmal. But the story and world-building is superb and more than compensates. Overall, I enjoy the games, as do millions of others.
I love that game, and yes it plays just well enough.
 

Strangelove_77

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,392
I hate these hot takes threads.

Anyways, if you can actually play the game and not absolutely hate its gameplay then it's fine.
 

Deleted member 17210

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
11,569
Yes.

Take Planescape: Torment for example. It's gameplay is basic to the point almost non-existence. It's an interactive book in a way. Yet its story and setting makes it one of the great RPGs. But its shortcomings in gameplay stop it from being in the shortlist of the greatests.
The way you interact with the story in Planescape is gameplay, though. Not all gameplay is combat or puzzles (and Planescape's battle system isn't horrible anyway).
 

unholyFarmer

Member
Jan 22, 2019
1,374
Yoko Taro games before teaming up with Platinum for Automata. I love those games so much that I even find the gameplay fine, but I understand that many find Nier and Drakengard terrible from a gameplay perspective and cannot get into them.
 

SofNascimento

cursed
Member
Oct 28, 2017
21,276
São Paulo - Brazil
The way you interact with the story in Planescape is gameplay, though. Not all gameplay is combat or puzzles (and Planescape's battle system isn't horrible anyway).

I consider it more part of the narrative. In a way everything you do in a game that involves some imput is gameplay...

And Torment's combat is not horrible, it's simply shallow and uninteresting.
 

ThisIsBlitz21

Member
Oct 22, 2018
4,662
We all seem to love Vice City, so sure. 3D GTA ganmes pre-5 never actually had good gameplay, they just had varied gameplay which made the entire package good. Except for GTA4, that was just ass. But the rest of them were essentially good in spite of their gameplay mechanics.
Honestly GTA: SA feels fine for a 2004 game. It felt easy to use and never came in the way of the game.
Though it has a controller camera unlike Vice City which prbably made it much better.
 

Laser Man

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,683
"Horrible" is stretching it, it implies that it would get in the way of the overall experience and thus hardly excusable. There are games with very little or very simple gameplay and there I'd say yes, they can be considered great as a whole but at the same time it doesn't mean it would be a great example and posterchild for the medium "Videogames", for that it absolutely needs to excel at gameplay before everything else! It's the differentiator of the medium!
 

Slim

Banned
Sep 24, 2018
2,846
The gameplay doesn't have to be amazing, but if it's horrible then it's not a great game imo.

If it's heavy on story-driven elements and cinematics, then I'd just watch that on youtube and save my money.
 

fontguy

Avenger
Oct 8, 2018
16,150
Good games are just games where the good stuff outweighs the bad stuff enough for you to like it.

Even the greatest games have flaws that the good parts are trying to overcome.
 

ghibli99

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,704
Outer Wilds' gameplay (and base XB1 performance) could be considered pretty terrible compared to other 3D games, but everything else about it elevates the game to levels of greatness I haven't personally seen in a while. Same was true for me with The Last Guardian. Games are like that though, which is one of the reasons why I love them so much.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,494
Yeah, OP. Deadly Premonition has terrible gameplay. It's serviceable in the sense that it works enough to play the game, but it's terrible.

But that game has so. much. soul. that it compensates any downside in gameplay in spades.
 

MadMike

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,424
"Good" is entirely subjective, and different people give different weight to gameplay. There are plenty of games that have shit gameplay that people love.
 

Lant_War

Classic Anus Game
The Fallen
Jul 14, 2018
23,543
Yes, as long as it has other things going on. Like if there was a platformer without a story or anything other than the platforming going on and that's bad, then it's a bad game
 

1upsuper

Member
Jan 30, 2018
5,485
Absolutely. "Bad" gameplay can be a deliberate choice. We need to move on from only judging games based on "objective" evaluations of discrete categories. Pathologic is an absolutely brilliant game, and its mediocre gameplay is an essential aspect of the game and the player's struggles are precisely the point.
 

Jmdajr

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,534
Well GTA has made millions off of this design. I suppose it's better now but man.
 

Chopchop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,171
If you enjoyed yourself, then it's good.

Danganronpa has such shitty gameplay that it's become a running joke, but I still love the series.
 

Aswitch

Member
Nov 27, 2017
5,118
Los Angeles, CA
Totally. Like mentioned, Deadly Premonition is a great example. In my head I can give it a complete pass because it feels like it's intentional and adds to the perceived vibe of the whole game. Any other game...no. Just bad until it goes into so bad it's entertaining which i would assume counts also.
 

Harlequin

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,614
Yes, I believe so. Of course, they would be better if they had better gameplay but there are cases in which other aspects of a game (story, atmosphere, visuals, music,...) manage to make the game as a whole enjoyable despite the gameplay being lacklustre.
 

captainmal01

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,339
Witcher 2 had a terrible terrible combat system, which accounts for most of the gameplay.. Rest of the game was good though.

I liked combat in witcher 1 and loved it in 3. Though I suspect all three entries will show up in this thread.

Pretty hard to decide if roll, roll, roll was worse than a rhythm game fighting system. 1 and 2 are so lovable despite their combat systems.
 

Soulflarz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,803
I don't suffer. If it plays bad, I drop it. Don't care how critically acclaimed it may be or may have been. The one and only time was when you assholes convinced me I needed to finish Nier multiple times to get all the endings. The gameplay was so bad that after the first ending, I went to Youtube. I wasn't going to bother with that shit anymore.
Nier is servicable though, theres way worse out there.
 
Oct 31, 2017
14,991
I'm not sure "horrible" is the right word. If I thought a game's gameplay was horrible, I would drop it, watch the cutscenes if I wanted to, and call it a day.
 

Aurica

音楽オタク - Comics Council 2020
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
23,478
A mountain in the US
I disagree with the premise that something is good if you like it. I like tons of things I don't think are quantifiably good. Movies: Hausu (House), The Room, Zebraman 1&2, and many more. I also dislike tons of things I think are quantifiably good.

Can a game be good with bad gameplay? That's definitely a point of contention, and I've seen the conversation here and years back on gaf quite a bit. It comes down to your own personal expectations of gaming, I think. Tons of people have zero interest in a game's story, so those people may hate the original NieR (I personally don't think the gameplay is as bad as many seem to). I think a game can still present a unique, entertaining experience, despite having bad gameplay. I'd likely give people the caveat, because things don't need to be good or bad without exceptions.
 

Deleted member 1656

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,474
So-Cal
I kind of hate the subtextual idea in this thread and often found in discussions that gameplay = combat. Gameplay is so much more than that. It's true that combat is often the core especially in products of the AAA variety, but even there is often so much more at play. Simply moving, exploring, reading, talking to characters, all that stuff is gameplay. If your button presses are required for things to proceed then you're technically playing it, even if you're proceeding down an extremely linear path. That's still interaction, and that's what games or gameplay is defined by. They're not—or at least they shouldn't be defined solely or mostly for vanquishing your foes in glorious, bloody, high speed battle. Games are narrative and gameplay is narrative—it's a story the player makes by playing, and that's why ludonarrative dissonance can be a problem. /rant
 

Khanimus

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
40,161
Greater Vancouver
Is the reason I'm playing it because of the gameplay? Maybe I'm playing it because the story is really well done. Or the world is interesting. Or the gameplay is maybe only functional if clunky, but a means from getting from interesting beat to interesting beat.
 

Rosebud

Two Pieces
Member
Apr 16, 2018
43,496
Some of my favorite games have bad gameplay (or no gameplay at all, like visual novels)
 

TheUnseenTheUnheard

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
May 25, 2018
9,647
It can be a good experience but if the elements that make it a game are bad then it's not a good game.
 

Doggg

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Nov 17, 2017
14,437
I think horror games might be the only genre where that's possible. But then again, even if the gameplay is abysmal by most other genre's standards, if it works in the context of the game, is it really that bad?
 

Dogui

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,784
Brazil
Resident Evil survived the PSX era. The most dangerous enemy until RE 4 was the camera and controls.
I mean, Suda 51 still make games...

I see takes like this and i can only think how hard is to discuss OP's point when we can't possibly agree on what good gameplay is like.

I kind of hate the subtextual idea in this thread and often found in discussions that gameplay = combat. Gameplay is so much more than that. It's true that combat is often the core especially in products of the AAA variety, but even there is often so much more at play. Simply moving, exploring, reading, talking to characters, all that stuff is gameplay. If your button presses are required for things to proceed then you're technically playing it, even if you're proceeding down an extremely linear path. That's still interaction, and that's what games or gameplay is defined by. They're not—or at least they shouldn't be defined solely or mostly for vanquishing your foes in glorious, bloody, high speed battle. Games are narrative and gameplay is narrative—it's a story the player makes by playing, and that's why ludonarrative dissonance can be a problem. /rant

Yeah, this. A lot of people would still regard visual novels or lucas arts style p & c adventures as games without gameplay.