Can black people in the US be free of white supremacy while still identifying with Christianity?

[TerminusFox]

I've been debating about making this topic numerous times, and now I've finally decided to just say screw it.

For context, I'm a black man, born and raised in the good ol South, and an atheist, of which I've told only close friends. My mother sort of "knows", but we simply choose not to talk about it. So, whenever I visit my mom and stepdad, I simply acquiesce with their desire for me to go to church with them on Sunday morning, a practice I entirely despise.

In any case, what baffles me, is that my mom and immediate family were the ones who taught me all about racism, microagressions (before that was even a term), what I'll have to do to hopefully survive an encounter with police, etc. yet insist Christianity being the one true religion, "just pray about it", or even the more infuriating it's an act of god for miracles, and when something terrible happens its rationalized as "He works in mysterious ways." This is the same religion that was literally forced upon us. How is that so many of our people who protest racism and bigotry, start movements for change, yet the white man, to blunt, still controls what we believe?

Shit is mad depressing, and I'm not sure how we get out of it as a whole.

 

[Kamiyouni]

Plenty of black African Americans who at Christians who don't subscribe to white supremaci. I don't know if I get your question.

 

[Knight613]

Christianity isn't a white thing though.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I'm not sure I understand the connection you're making here. Christianity itself doesn't inherently promote white supremacy.

 

[TelluricTokoro]

Africans practiced Christianity before the Trans-Atlantic slave trade.

I don't know what else to tell you, really.

 

[moblin]

Your question is at the root of a lot of black nationalist movements (including NoI).

Also important to keep in mind that much of the "white" world was forcibly converted to Christianity as well.

 

[gcwy]

Although it is true that it was Europeans who brought Christianity and forced slaves to convert to it, however I don't see the correlation between religion and race in the context of your post.

 

[shnurgleton]

If you are Vietnamese and eat banh mi are you free of French dominion?

 

[Sqrt]

I'm not sure I understand the connection you're making here. Christianity itself doesn't inherently promote white supremacy.

Click to shrink...

This. Also, Evangelicals are mostly a US phenomenon.

 

[bionic77]

Yes.

Christianity is not an American religion.

Also religion doesn't make you evil. It just gives you an excuse to be evil and pretend you are the good guy.

 

[Hero of the Wild]

I've seen videos of those black church's where they are all falling over and stuff and I do get a white supremesist vibe from them. Not sure what you can do about it though.

 

[Deleted member 19844]

Africans practiced Christianity before the Trans-Atlantic slave trade.

I don't know what else to tell you, really.

Click to shrink...

This, basically.

 

[Watchtower]

It's not Christianity you have an issue with, it's America's twisted heavily-sociopolitical version of evangelism.

One does not have to be an extreme-right conservative to be a good Christian. In fact, many of the extreme-right conservatives I've known also tend to be really bad Christians.

 

[Grouch Douglass]

I've seen videos of those black church's where they are all falling over and stuff and I do get a white supremesist vibe from them. Not sure what you can do about it though.

Click to shrink...

The only time I ever enjoyed church is when I got invited to a majority black church. Everyone was so happy and the songs were actually good and the sermon was interesting.

 

[Deleted member 41271]

Yes.

Remember, Christianity was not forced on all slaves. Many actually adopted that religion under great danger, against the wishes of their masters. See the account of Wash Wilson, for example. For these, it was a kind of beacon of hope, something to make their own against what their wannabe masters wished.

White supremacy is not inherently christian - it is just that in the US, "Christianity" has long since been divorced from the original text. Evangelical, "white" christianity is often a mockery of what Christianity was originally, with all values almost literally swapped. Weapons are worshipped to an extent that reminds one of the biblical golden calf, murder is glorified, as is hatred of all that is different, while compassion is demonized and wealth is glorified. The latter especially is quite troublesome: The biblical jesus had some rather brash words for thinking of that nature (and would be demonized as a commie by modern day evangelicals).

As far as I know, there are plenty of "black" churches, that are not under the control of a white/evangelical preacher. It may be that your family belongs to one of those.

That said, I understand why you reject the religion. Can't blame you really. Just also see that to some people, it was a religion that also provided a form of sanctuary. Especially blacks in the US!

CantbelievethatIasaglbtpersonjustendorsedchristianityFML

 

[Deleted member 39214]

Africans practiced Christianity before the Trans-Atlantic slave trade.

I don't know what else to tell you, really.

Click to shrink...

...

 

[Deleted member 9306]

So to start, I don't know about how many Black people are on this forum, but furthermore this is NOT a predominately black forum, so I don't think this is a good place to discuss this.

Context, Black woman. 20. I live in Toronto. Things are a bit different up here but Black people up here are still really religious and still more religious than other groups. I'm an atheist. I'm not really vocal until someone asks me if I want to go to church/ tells me to pray about it, at which time I tell them that I don't believe, and then they act like I just blew up the CN tower or something.

Personally I agree with you. I actually think that the biggest reason why certain problems exist in the Black community is due to Christianity, and especially the belief that there's someone out there who's going to eventually take care of us. I think it also relates to that weird thing that some people have where they act like if you're not struggling then you're doing something wrong/things aren't normal. To extend it further, it's also a big reason why our community struggles to tackle issues like Domestic Abuse ("WELL GOD SAID THAT MAN WAS THE HEAD OF THE HOUSE SO THEREFORE IT'S OKAY TO TREAT HER LIKE THAT") and especially how we treat women. However, nobody wants to have this conversation because the Black experience can be really shitty sometimes and nobody wants to admit that the world doesn't work as simplistically as most religions imply. There are also certain demographics in the Black community who directly benefit from the behavior that Christianity inspires, but I don't want to get into details here...

But like i said, I don't think this is a good place for this discussion.

 

[THErest]

I see what you mean, but I don't know if "white supremacy" is exactly the term to use, as that is a movement, but you're talking more about history.

But I can see how it might be strange or counterproductive to spend decades trying to get out from under the numerous lasting and ill effects and horrors of being enslaved for centuries by white people, but then still cling to the religion that was forced upon you by those same monsters.

 

[Deleted member 39214]

For me the real question is how could southerners enslave a whole race of people .. then go church on a Sunday

 

[Deleted member 9306]

...

Click to shrink...

It was a different form of Christianity (I believe it was called Monoethicism or something). Also it was mostly an Ethiopian religion. Most Black people in the US/Canada are descended from West Africans (Mali empire, Songhai Empire, Ashanti Kingdom, etc.) and would be much more familiar with Islam. The Christianity that OP is referring to that was "forced onto our ancestors" is Protestantism.

Not trying to attack you but I hate misinformation.

 

[Gustaf]

is this a stealth im atheist thread?

 

[woman]

For me the real question is how could southerners enslave a whole race of people .. then go church on a Sunday

Click to shrink...

Because they interpreted their faith in a way that justified it. They also didn't consider black people to be real humans who biblical principles applied to.

 

[Angelus Errare]

For me the real question is how could southerners enslave a whole race of people .. then go church on a Sunday

Click to shrink...

They saw us no different than farm animals is how, that and there are plenty of passages in the bible that condones slavery. Mix those two together plus the idea of repenting for one's sin and it becomes pretty easy to understand really.

All this stated, I feel like black people in the US would have been so much better off if every slave owner and their ilk were utterly decimated and systematically killed in a public and brutal fashion, all of the slave masters and helpers hunted down, it's what they all deserved.

 

[Deleted member 15737]

Always struck me as self opposed segregation.

Like, there were black churches and white churches, and they rarely worked together for causes, and churches are all about a clique, a sub-community, so it leads (even more of) to white people socializing and doing business with white people.

People are only good and worth getting to know if they are a part of my church. Most churches encourage this, if not explicitly. Not many white churches in the Midwest ever attempt to educate or reach out to other religions. Its a bunch of hypocritical baloney out here.

If I were black I would put as much distance between me and the BS religion they told me to worshipers possible. I meq n, I do that anyway as a white dude, but it does seem like there should be extra motivation for black people.

 

[JeTmAn]

Christianity didn't come from white people

 

[Deleted member 33887]

Africans practiced Christianity before the Trans-Atlantic slave trade.

I don't know what else to tell you, really.

Click to shrink...

Yes, surely Coptic Ethiopians and Egyptian Christians existing hand waves away all the problems of colonialism, slavery, oppression. How silly of the OP. Why didn't he think of that?

 

[base_two]

Black folks in general would be better off if we decided to move towards secularism in our community. Yes, Christianity, Islam, and other Abrahamic religions has been used in our communities for centuries to maintain white supremacy, classism, slavery, and economic inequality. They have also been used to oppress subcommunities like black LGBTQ people in such a crushing manner and have slowed progress towards move progressive societies in black nations. I often think black people would be better off embracing the spiritualism of the past from in traditional african religions rather the dogma of Christianity if you need such a belief system.

 

[TerminusFox]

They saw us no different than farm animals is how, that and there are plenty of passages in the bible that condones slavery. Mix those two together plus the idea of repenting for one's sin and it becomes pretty easy to understand really.

All this stated, I feel like black people in the US would have been so much better off if every slave owner and their ilk were utterly decimated and systematically killed in a public and brutal fashion, all of the slave masters and helpers hunted down, it's what they all deserved.

Click to shrink...

Exactly.

Every officer in the Confederacy should've been executed. No questions asked, and the Enlisted on a case-by-case basis. Fuck that 'coming together" shit Lincoln spewed.

 

[4859]

 

[Heromanz]

Huh?
Christianity isnt the reason why white Supremacy

 

[BlackGoku03]

Religion has been used as a tool of dominance throughout all of human history. It even happens now in small pockets around the world.

Cool thing about Christianity is, despite what a lot of white Christians in the US say, that it's not beholden to color. Jesus himself was brown.

It comes down to a choice. And it's your choice not to believe.

Christianity isn't a white thing though.

Click to shrink...

This is what I was going to say.

 

[WascallyWabbit]

Yes.

Christianity is not an American religion.

Also religion doesn't make you evil. It just gives you an excuse to be evil and pretend you are the good guy.

Click to shrink...

Huh, i never thought of it that way, but that's really true

 

[HockeyBird]

Much of the civil rights movement was organized by black churches and the church was often a place where black folks could at least momentarily take refuge from white supremacy. I get what you're saying about Christianity being forced upon you but removing Christianity from black culture won't liberate you from white supremacy.

And to be honest based on what you wrote, It seems very little of your post has to do with the history of Christianity and slavery in America. It sounds like the intention is really to justify your atheist beliefs to yourself and more importantly, your mother. That is an entirely different discussion.

 

[Gaf Zombie]

So to start, I don't know about how many Black people are on this forum, but furthermore this is NOT a predominately black forum, so I don't think this is a good place to discuss this.

Context, Black woman. 20. I live in Toronto. Things are a bit different up here but Black people up here are still really religious and still more religious than other groups. I'm an atheist. I'm not really vocal until someone asks me if I want to go to church/ tells me to pray about it, at which time I tell them that I don't believe, and then they act like I just blew up the CN tower or something.

Personally I agree with you. I actually think that the biggest reason why certain problems exist in the Black community is due to Christianity, and especially the belief that there's someone out there who's going to eventually take care of us. I think it also relates to that weird thing that some people have where they act like if you're not struggling then you're doing something wrong/things aren't normal. To extend it further, it's also a big reason why our community struggles to tackle issues like Domestic Abuse ("WELL GOD SAID THAT MAN WAS THE HEAD OF THE HOUSE SO THEREFORE IT'S OKAY TO TREAT HER LIKE THAT") and especially how we treat women. However, nobody wants to have this conversation because the Black experience can be really shitty sometimes and nobody wants to admit that the world doesn't work as simplistically as most religions imply. There are also certain demographics in the Black community who directly benefit from the behavior that Christianity inspires, but I don't want to get into details here...

But like i said, I don't think this is a good place for this discussion.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, this seems an odd place for this conversation.

OP, I'm theist agnostic but I know what you're saying and I agree. People should worship whatever makes them feel warm inside but the prevelance of Black Christians in N.A. is obviously a vestige of slavery. The shackles are off, it's time to get off of our knees and start putting that devotion into our communities.

 

[TerminusFox]

Huh?
Christianity isnt the reason why white Supremacy

Click to shrink...

Of course not, but it's a tool, a Major one at that, that one can't dismiss out of hand.

 

[BlackGoku03]

Yeah, this seems an odd place for this conversation.

OP, I'm theist agnostic but I know what you're saying and I agree. People should worship whatever makes them feel warm inside but the prevelance of Black Christians in N.A. is obviously a vestige of slavery. The shackles are off, it's time to get off of our knees and start putting that devotion into our communities.

Click to shrink...

It's possible to do both and has been done a la King.

Christianity can be a crutch or help improve your life. It's how you use it.

 

[Gaf Zombie]

Christianity didn't come from white people

Click to shrink...

Neither did gunpowder, but that didn't stop them from weaponizing and killing us with it.

 

[Heromanz]

Of course not, but it's a tool, a Major one at that, that one can't dismiss out of hand.

Click to shrink...

People in power use anything in order to oppress people. if America was atheist they will still find a way to put down black people.

 

[Morrigan]

Black folks in general would be better off if we decided to move towards secularism in our community. Yes, Christianity, Islam, and other Abrahamic religions has been used in our communities for centuries to maintain white supremacy, classism, slavery, and economic inequality. They have also been used to oppress subcommunities like black LGBTQ people in such a crushing manner and have slowed progress towards move progressive societies in black nations. I often think black people would be better off embracing the spiritualism of the past from in traditional african religions rather the dogma of Christianity if you need such a belief system.

Click to shrink...

I tend to agree with you and I can see where ShadowFox is coming from, too. Christianity in the US has a long history of enabling white supremacy.

Lucien Greaves wrote a pretty good (and scathing) article for WaPo about this:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...c-temple-dont-blame-satan-for-white-supremacy

Relevant passages:

To many casual observers, there seems to be a tendency to view condemnations of white supremacy as Satanism as a triumph of progressive thought among prominent U.S. Christians. But such language is not harmless. It lets mainstream religions off the hook for some of the darker periods of American history, despite the deep connections between slavery and Christian theology.

Click to shrink...

Slavery in the United States was traditionally — and rather credibly, from a theological perspective — justified on scriptural grounds. The Ku Klux Klan is as much a religious Protestant sect as the Taliban or al-Qaeda are Muslim. The doctrine of the Christian Identity movement, with its spurious scholarship and militant apocalyptic urgency, forms the ideological backdrop of "virtually all white supremacist and extreme anti-government movements" in the United States, the Anti-Defamation League writes.

Click to shrink...

It's one thing to disagree with the scriptural interpretation of a movement; it's another to deny that the movement had any foundations in scriptural interpretations at all. Facing the problem of Protestant racism from within means acknowledging its existence and dedicating a certain amount of energy to maintaining a nonracist church, not merely claiming that such elements exist only when politically convenient.

It's well past time we stopped allowing religious authorities to pretend that their doctrines have guided the rights revolution, when in reality, far too many of them traditionally stalled and crippled it. Without a moment's introspection, we find American Christian religious leaders claiming the glory of the 1960s civil rights movement while simultaneously fighting to prevent and undo any advances in rights for lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender Americans.

Click to shrink...

 

[Zelas]

yet the white man, to blunt, still controls what we believe?

Click to shrink...

Who is the white man that you're referring to?

It was a different form of Christianity (I believe it was called Monoethicism or something). Also it was mostly an Ethiopian religion. Most Black people in the US/Canada are descended from West Africans (Mali empire, Songhai Empire, Ashanti Kingdom, etc.) and would be much more familiar with Islam. The Christianity that OP is referring to that was "forced onto our ancestors" is Protestantism.

Not trying to attack you but I hate misinformation.

Click to shrink...

I dont see why is so hard for people to understand that Christianity is pretty diverse. And that White Evangelicals are a small fraction of Christianity. Atheists are starting to complain about being lumped together and yet they continue to do so with religion.

 

[Turbo Tu-Tone]

Religious or irreligious, if you're not B1, you're an opp.

 

[BlackGoku03]

Who is the white man that you're referring to?


I dont see why is so hard for people to understand that Christianity is pretty diverse. And that White Evangelicals are a small fraction of Christianity. Atheists are starting to complain about being lumped together and yet they continue to do so with religion.

Click to shrink...

It's baffling. What's also baffling is that they believe anyone who says they're Christian even though their actions directly contradict the lessons taught in the Bible.

But they're quick on calling someone else fake.

People in power use anything in order to oppress people. if America was atheist they will still find a way to put down black people.

Click to shrink...

Correct.

If all black people stopped being Christians tomorrow, nothing would change how we're treated.

 

[gutter_trash]

Religion in Europe was used for Control, Power, Subordination at the hands of Nobility, Monarchy, politicians and the Pope.
The abuse of power and corruption at the hands of those who yielded power, used it to control the peasant majority.
The peasant majority was kept in the dark for the purpose of control and subordination.

Some Africans may have adopted Christianity out of their of free will, perhaps but many were introduced to it via European colonialists under the name of their Monarchies.

Same goes for Islam, Islam's expansion was out of conquest not free will.

--
they biggest difference between present day Europe from the US was that 19th Century Europe underwent separation between Church and State with bloody revolutions and several monarchies being toppled.

The US however underwent a cultural Separation between Church n State. The US is stuck in the 18th Century when it comes to religion.

 

[Jmdajr]

Yeah Evangelcal Christianity is basically an addiction. It's an obsession.

Religion, at least I think, is supposed to bring some kind of zen in your life. Finding happiness in the non material things that matter and peace among your fellow peeps. But this version has nothing to with that. It's a non stop war. 24/7.

 

[Jmdajr]

Edit: going to hell for double post

 

[Kazoku_]

Christianity didn't come from white people

Click to shrink...

Surely it's this, right? It's middle eastern in origin if you discount divinity altogether.

 

[Principate]

West africa countries are all deeply religious, christanity just spread in Africa much like it did in the rest of the world there's nothing uniquely american about this.

 

[Deleted member 197]

Of course they can, i don't see what christianity has to do with white supremacy.

 

[TelluricTokoro]

Yes, surely Coptic Ethiopians and Egyptian Christians existing hand waves away all the problems of colonialism, slavery, oppression. How silly of the OP. Why didn't he think of that?

Click to shrink...

You sure are passive aggressive for someone missing the point.

Those things happened because of white people.

Starting the thread with the premise, "Christianity is the white man's religion," is wrong tho, so... how are they related?

 

[VegiHam]

This is something I've always sort of wondered but never worked out how to ask.

Like to me it seems very strange to think that the evil people who enslaved your ancestors just coincidentally happened to believe the one true religion; and that you should follow it as well, right? I don't see how you reconcile that other than by just ignoring it...