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Can you be racist towards white people?
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Homogenous Whiteness was created to unify White America after one of the World Wars to end the division and ethnic tensions between "White" ethnic groups.
Of fucking course. I've experienced it multiple times (Los Angeles). It made me even more angry for minorities that are facing it systemically.
That said, it's a comparatively microscopic problem (in the West).
That said, it's a comparatively microscopic problem (in the West).
I was talking about the west. If in some place the white are a minority and are being persecuted then yes, it needs to be addressed for that country.
Yes? What a weird question. I'm white and I've been discriminated against. It happens, but what can you do.
So the answer is still yes
So the answer is still yes
South Africa.
Also racism against Slavs and Jews mostly by other white people but still, that counts.
"Racism" as a broad concept does not require systemic racism or a social/political power imbalance. The term has no unified definition but in a general sense it is simply the act of prejudice of one race over another, and the inherent belief that one race is superior to another. It does not require a larger power imbalance, it does not require institutionalised and enforced socio-political power structure wherein one race is disadvantage and/or a minority towards another. When we speak "racism", we are speaking of racial superiority as an ideology exhibited through action and belief.
The debate of the necessity for advanced/disadvantaged social groups is one fundamentally flawed, as far as I'm concerned. We have terms and phrases to describe this, as institutionalised and systemic racism are born out of individual racism. They are the part of a greater process of racism towards the path of genocide, slavery, and other racially charged forms of oppression and extermination. Lumping this all under the umbrella of "racism", and implying that without oppression or social/political disadvantage for racially identifiable group there is no "racism", in my opinion diminishes the importance of recognising racism as a belief system and ideology responsible to individuals and where the root of systemic racism begins.
And while the debate is welcome, this is absolutely not a hard academic consensus on the definition. Discussion of a consensus is what mostly takes place in academia.
The debate of the necessity for advanced/disadvantaged social groups is one fundamentally flawed, as far as I'm concerned. We have terms and phrases to describe this, as institutionalised and systemic racism are born out of individual racism. They are the part of a greater process of racism towards the path of genocide, slavery, and other racially charged forms of oppression and extermination. Lumping this all under the umbrella of "racism", and implying that without oppression or social/political disadvantage for racially identifiable group there is no "racism", in my opinion diminishes the importance of recognising racism as a belief system and ideology responsible to individuals and where the root of systemic racism begins.
And while the debate is welcome, this is absolutely not a hard academic consensus on the definition. Discussion of a consensus is what mostly takes place in academia.
How is the distinction silly when the two situations require different solutions? Seems to hinder solving the issues if you don't acknowledge the distinction.
Good posts. As always, it is important to remember that US != world.
I remember anti-polish sentiments were higher here in Sweden maybe 15 years ago, with the polish being percieved as a nation of cheap carpenters people would use to renovate their houses. Last summer when forests in Sweden were burning the polish firemen that came to help were greeted as heroes, with polish flags being hung from highway overpasses.
great post. It is always interesting to see posts about ~3 different kinds of racism only ever say racism.
As far as America goes: one can individually be racist towards white people in America, but since there is effectively no systemic racism against white people in America and they have had centuries of wealth and opportunity built against others in their favor, individual racism against white people is practically meaningless and holds no power, not to mention it's incredibly rare in comparison to racism against non-whites.
Unfortunately, I never got the chance to learn about racism, or the definition of racism, in college or anything like that. So I'm curious where the idea of political power and racism became intertwined. Is this an example of language changing to reflect a better understanding, or is there legitimate debate over what "racism" actually entails?
For those who say no, you should try and ask Polish people in England or Romanian in Spain, to name two common examples. They are by all standard definitions white and a lot of them suffer racism on a daily basis. So yeah of course. Not everything revolves around American concepts, you know?
Because racism by itself is a hierarchical system. When were using terms like "systemic racism", "cultural racism", "institutional racism", etc. we are trying to specify how racism manifests, reinforces, and perpetuates within those aspects of society. We're not doing it to separate racism individuals act upon each other to them tho cause once again racism by itself is a system.
It really needs to be said that the second part is the only that really matters on a grand scale.
A handful of people being assholes to white is obviously bad, but it's nothing compared to what poc have to worry about in America.
It's why a person of color that assimilates in a system built on White Supremacy can end up being racist towards their own people.
It's my belief that racism is prejudice based on the racial makeup of someone. So yes people can be racist against white people. Just like any type of discrimination, the severity of it is going to differ based on the local factors. White people tend to face less of it, generally speaking. Systemic racism does exist against white people in some area, but again, it's not as widespread and I understand where people are coming from if they think it doesn't effect white people. It doesn't affect most of us, especially in North America or Europe, that is true.
To be fair to you and most people, the things they try to teach to children and the general public is usually the simplified and surface version of stuff but then we get mad not everyone is as sophisticated as we want them to be lol. Same goes with things like chemistry or genetics. So we just have a lot of simple rules for people to follow and quickly understand, like "don't be a dick".
I think when you go deeper into the social sciences, you gain a more complex understanding of what racism and power structures in general entail deep down. I think it's been understood as systemic in academia for a long time, but hasn't penetrated into general public understanding very well.
I think there is definitely debate still, at least in part because some people are dense and want THEIR definition to count most (and to lessen their own guilt/complicity) but also because it's complex. Power dynamics are complex and flutuacting systems, kind of like "the economy". Just when you think you've grasped it, things can shift.
Absolutely and anyone who thinks otherwise is moving goal posts on what racism is defined as to fit their agenda.
Institutionally in the west? No. On a prejudice level of course, as can any ethnicity towards any ethnicity.
The effects of White Supremacy on a global scale has had huge impact even in predominately non White countries so much so that White people often get put on pedestals despite being the minority and not having any power.
Yes, though vastly overstated by a lot of oversensitive white people (at least in the U.S.). Racism isn't just a skin color thing, and can get complicated.
Thanks, that's a very charitable post. I wish there was an easy way to learn about this stuff on my own, but especially with a topic as divisive as racism, there's just so much misinformation out there. I don't dare go to YouTube to learn things anymore, after unwittingly watching a PragerU video once while not realizing what they were
I've heard people define racism, particularly in academic settings, as having a power component, e.g. you cannot be racist to whites because they have power in society. Of course this does not match any common usage of the term so I don't think it's useful to use it in such a way. Definitions of words are established by consensus of usage, not by authority.
There's also a heaping pile of location and cultural bias with these sorts of things. Try being white in Asia, it's not the same thing as being white in America and no, they don't hold the power so there is no universalism to such views.
So I'd say, yes, you most certainly can. What we might say in western regions is that it's not important which is more a defensive cultural posture. This is because the concept, despite being less common or severe, can be used to distract from other perhaps more important conversations. I do however think that this needs to be treated very cautiously. We have not and likely will not establish a boundary of what it looks like to become "important," meaning that creeping irrational hatred can easily manifest without checks.
There's also a heaping pile of location and cultural bias with these sorts of things. Try being white in Asia, it's not the same thing as being white in America and no, they don't hold the power so there is no universalism to such views.
So I'd say, yes, you most certainly can. What we might say in western regions is that it's not important which is more a defensive cultural posture. This is because the concept, despite being less common or severe, can be used to distract from other perhaps more important conversations. I do however think that this needs to be treated very cautiously. We have not and likely will not establish a boundary of what it looks like to become "important," meaning that creeping irrational hatred can easily manifest without checks.
Yeah, you can.
As a black man born in the South I don't care about what the academic term translates into and what it "truly means to be racist" and all that stuff. I was born based off of discriminating someone based off of race so yeah, you can be racist to white people. That whole "nah they don't have power so it's not racism" thing doesn't fly to me. I've got white homies who were just as poor as me and my friends and yet people were racist to them. When that happened I wasn't looking at any academic definition. I just looked at a friend being discriminated for due to his skin color the exact same way I was whenever I went to any store.
As a black man born in the South I don't care about what the academic term translates into and what it "truly means to be racist" and all that stuff. I was born based off of discriminating someone based off of race so yeah, you can be racist to white people. That whole "nah they don't have power so it's not racism" thing doesn't fly to me. I've got white homies who were just as poor as me and my friends and yet people were racist to them. When that happened I wasn't looking at any academic definition. I just looked at a friend being discriminated for due to his skin color the exact same way I was whenever I went to any store.
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I shared this experience here before, but I'll do so again.
I was in a predominantly black neighborhood (like, 99% black) and went out for dinner with my then-fiance at Red Lobster. On the way in we got a lot of remarks like "hey whitey" or "damn, wish I had heels like that" (wtf does that mean?) in a mocking voice. Didn't really bother us, but when we got to the (huge) line, they started letting in a lot of people before us, even if they got there after. Eventually after waiting long enough and still not getting a seat and getting the uncomfortable side eye from everyone, we left and went somewhere else.
Is it racism? In the purest sense of the term, yes. BUT, there's no damaging effects of racism on white people other than people just generally being mean and making us feel uncomfortable or wait in lines longer. There's no race-wide history of being screwed over because of being judged or looked at differently. Discomfort and inconvenience is a whole different world to active discrimination.
So I think it's racism, I guess, but not the way we've come to know it in our society, where it's actively damaging, dangerous, and problematic. It's more like getting bullied in elementary school, which still sucks, but isn't the same.
That's just my two cents though.
I was in a predominantly black neighborhood (like, 99% black) and went out for dinner with my then-fiance at Red Lobster. On the way in we got a lot of remarks like "hey whitey" or "damn, wish I had heels like that" (wtf does that mean?) in a mocking voice. Didn't really bother us, but when we got to the (huge) line, they started letting in a lot of people before us, even if they got there after. Eventually after waiting long enough and still not getting a seat and getting the uncomfortable side eye from everyone, we left and went somewhere else.
Is it racism? In the purest sense of the term, yes. BUT, there's no damaging effects of racism on white people other than people just generally being mean and making us feel uncomfortable or wait in lines longer. There's no race-wide history of being screwed over because of being judged or looked at differently. Discomfort and inconvenience is a whole different world to active discrimination.
So I think it's racism, I guess, but not the way we've come to know it in our society, where it's actively damaging, dangerous, and problematic. It's more like getting bullied in elementary school, which still sucks, but isn't the same.
That's just my two cents though.
There was a similar discussion in the past and there seemed to be a divide in what the word 'racism' actually means. Some use the dictionary definition of the term which is prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior, while others interpreted the term as systemic, institutionalized racism that oppressed people on a national level.
Any generalization and prejudice towards an entire race is racism.
So yes, racism against every race does exist.
So yes, racism against every race does exist.
Under any reasonable definition, of course you can. But in America and western civilization in general it's not systemic or institutional like it is with other races so it's not considered something that needs to be addressed on, for instance, a policy level.
This thread (forum) needs a big ol' cup of USA!=world
There's racism towards people of the same country even in some places.
There's racism towards people of the same country even in some places.
Of course you can. There are other countries in the world, you know?
You have right wing Northern Italians that consider Southern Italians (aka "terroni"; please have a look at the picture+caption in the Wikipedia article) intrinsically inferior to them.
in the 90s - early 00s there was (and there still is, but not as strong) some pretty hardcore racism against Slavs (mostly towards people from Yugoslavia and Albania)... The same thing goes for Romanians.
Romani people are treated like shit in most European countries.
Heck, in Switzerland I regularly witness racism towards the Italians, the French and the Portuguese... when it comes to jobs we even have laws that allow us to discriminate against all foreigners (which the EU isn't happy about).
You have right wing Northern Italians that consider Southern Italians (aka "terroni"; please have a look at the picture+caption in the Wikipedia article) intrinsically inferior to them.
in the 90s - early 00s there was (and there still is, but not as strong) some pretty hardcore racism against Slavs (mostly towards people from Yugoslavia and Albania)... The same thing goes for Romanians.
Romani people are treated like shit in most European countries.
Heck, in Switzerland I regularly witness racism towards the Italians, the French and the Portuguese... when it comes to jobs we even have laws that allow us to discriminate against all foreigners (which the EU isn't happy about).
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Well yes, just look at how eastern europe white people are treated in western europe, despite being "white" they look at your cultural background and ethnicity.
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