Canada and the Netherlands to support Franco-German proposal for NATO reform

Xando

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,486

The prime ministers of Canada and the Netherlands added their support on Tuesday to a Franco-German proposal to reform NATO, after France’s president said the Western alliance was dying.

“I don’t think you survive 70 years as an alliance without regularly reflecting,” Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau told a forum before the NATO summit, sitting alongside his Dutch counterpart Mark Rutte.

Rutte said it made sense to set up a proposed “wise persons” group of experts to consider how to reform NATO politically after splits between Turkey, France and the United States have emerged, and he called for a “fundamental rethink”.

As expected the summit is going very well

 
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Xando

Xando

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,486
Everyone is throwing shit at each other and the summit hasn't even properly started

 

LegendofJoe

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,787
Arkansas, USA
Turkey needs to be kicked out of NATO, that should be the priority. Our strategic goals are not aligned. That is increasingly true of the US as well, but unlike Turkey there is no NATO without the United States.
 
Oct 27, 2017
14,305
Seattle
Where’s the lie though
There is no lie, but you do have to wonder, when the EU army tries to get off the ground, how much of a hassle that will be with all the different governents Western Europe vs Central Europe etc. Although the UK/Turkey/US would not be involved, but my understanding is there are some serious different idelogies and political regimes in the EU.
 

Ac30

Member
Oct 30, 2017
12,607
London
I mean he is right but you know erdogan and trump will get butthurt
They both exist in a state of perpetual butthurt anyways
There is no lie, but you do have to wonder, when the EU army tries to get off the ground, how much of a hassle that will be with all the different governents Western Europe vs Central Europe etc. Although the UK/Turkey/US would not be involved, but my understanding is there are some serious different idelogies and political regimes in the EU.
The EU army will never be more than a twinkle in Macron’s eye. The best we can hope for is a Western European rapid response force.
 
Oct 27, 2017
14,305
Seattle

DrewFu

Member
Apr 19, 2018
7,934
I agree with the both of you, but strategically, I mean its a major hit.
Geographically, sure. But at this juncture Turkey is far more aligned with Russia than the west. They buy the Russian missile system, they've been kicked out of the F35 program, etc. They are basically a NATO member in name only.
 

Ac30

Member
Oct 30, 2017
12,607
London
Geographically, sure. But at this juncture Turkey is far more aligned with Russia than the west. They buy the Russian missile system, they've been kicked out of the F35 program, etc. They are basically a NATO member in name only.
Yeah, under Erdogan their geopolitical goals are entirely unaligned with ours.

They’re violating Cypriot sovereignty too for fuck’s sake
 

DrewFu

Member
Apr 19, 2018
7,934
Yeah, under Erdogan their geopolitical goals are entirely unaligned with ours.

They’re violating Cypriot sovereignty too for fuck’s sake
The bottom line is, if the EU were under a legitimate threat from, say, Russia, would Turkey, who now has a Russian defense system and has been kicked out of key NATO offensive system (the F35), side the NATO or Russia? I feel at this point Turkey is a legitimate concern, beyond whether or not they should be in NATO.

With the US, even with Trump's moronic bluster, at the end of the day, we will still defend the EU basically no matter what. Even if Trump were to try be cute about it, Congress would step in.
 

Coda

Member
Nov 17, 2019
217
Geographically, sure. But at this juncture Turkey is far more aligned with Russia than the west. They buy the Russian missile system, they've been kicked out of the F35 program, etc. They are basically a NATO member in name only.
Erdogan isn't immortal. There are still level headed people in Turkey who have a legit shot at the presidency. See Imamoglu who beat Erdogans party in Istanbul earlier this year.

Better to act rational, not emotional when it comes to this and just weather it out till he is gone.