Canada PoliERA |OT 2| I Got Ninety Nine MPs, But An Albertan Ain't One

Kernel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,835

torontoml

Member
Oct 25, 2017
339
So, is the reason for such a high price due to the high up front cost of the infrastructure required to get it running?

I know other sites run around, $30 a barrel to be profitable. But they are older.
 

killerrin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,314
Toronto
So, is the reason for such a high price due to the high up front cost of the infrastructure required to get it running?
If I had to guess:
  • 35% North American Infrastructure Tax
  • 35% in Materials
  • 20% Labour
  • 4% Baked in cost overruns
  • 3% Land Aquisition
  • 3% Scimmed off the top

Anyhow, its generally understood that infrastructure projects in North America is way more expensive than it should be. For the most part you can blame corruption in the industrial construction industry being left unchecked and allowed to fester. Europe tends to crack down on their massive construction firms much more than we do here. And even in Canada pretty much only Quebec has opened up investigations into corruption in their construction industry... investigations that ended up being so widespead that they don't even know what to do with all the names they collected.

And thats just construction. Not add ontop the fact that this is a Mine (another generally corrupt industry) and Energy (Oil). You've basically got a trifecta of corruption just waiting to skim money off the top.
 
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Kernel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,835
So, is the reason for such a high price due to the high up front cost of the infrastructure required to get it running?

I know other sites run around, $30 a barrel to be profitable. But they are older.
I'd say so yes.

The other (more general problem) is that oil is getting more and more expensive to extract.


The report says we are not running out of oil—vast reserves exist—but says that it is becoming uneconomical to exploit it. The plateauing of crude oil production was “a decisive turning point for the industrial ecosystem,” with demand shortfall being made up from liquid fuels which are far more expensive and difficult to extract—namely, unconventional oil sources like crude oil from deep offshore sources, oil sands, and especially shale oil (also known as "tight oil," extracted by fracking).

These sources require far more elaborate and expensive methods of extraction, refining and processing than conventional crude mined onshore, which has driven up costs of production and operations.

Yet the shift to more expensive sources of oil to sustain the global economy, the report finds, is not only already undermining economic growth, but likely to become unsustainable on its own terms. In short, we have entered a new era of expensive energy that is likely to trigger a long-term economic contraction
My fear is if this thing is approved and somehow gets built, the conservatives are going grovel for even more taxpayer money to subsidize this thing (or do it themselves if they win). That's on top of the carbon emissions, which are probably higher than they claim.
 

firehawk12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,305
SNC-Lavalin subsidiaries barred from public contracts in Quebec for five years

Guess whose not going to be bidding on the new Gatineau LRT and Montreal extension projects
Miguel Landry, a media relations specialist for the AMP, said the ban was automatically applied to the SNC entities as a result of the guilty plea in December.

“It’s not a decision by us, it’s an automatic ban,” said Landry.
Please don't blame me.
 

Kernel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,835

CPC leadership candidates engaging in a race to the bottom in who can say the dumbest things.
 

Vamphuntr

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,009
Here's a new one:




The full top 10 "non-essential" surgeries:

Abdominal hernias for adults (8,658)
Benign skin lesions (6,827)
Carpal tunnel syndrome (5,845)
Haemorrhoids surgery (2,835)
Adenoidectomy in conjunction with tonsillectomy (1,633)
Tonsillectomy in adults and children (1,106)
Trigger finger (1,106)
Sterilization for women (1,095)
Rhinosinusitis (1,033)
Breast reduction for women (1,011)
How awful. I work in healthcare and I see people with abdominal hernias many times a week. It's very bad for your self esteem and often painful. Carpal Tunnel syndrome can be extremely painful and debilitating. Same for hemorrhoids as by the time you need to operate they are probably constantly bleeding and unbearable. "Benign skin lesion" is also quite the wild card and kind of require some details as 1- They often only analyze them after they remove it in the operating room, 2- Some can also turn into cancerous lesion which is why dermatologist will often burn them with nitrogen before anything else happen.

I'm not really surprised though as this discussion will eventually happen in every province. Healthcare is close to 40% of BC budget and also 50% of QC budget. With an aging population and the advance of medicine and pharmacy it will keep getting more expensive to give care to citizens.
 

Prax

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,649
I always wonder how hernias are non-essential for treatment??
Seems pretty.. medical PROBLEM to me? Organs shoving through to places they shouldn't be etc.. doesn't sound like a small problem.
 

Kernel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,835
I always wonder how hernias are non-essential for treatment??
Seems pretty.. medical PROBLEM to me? Organs shoving through to places they shouldn't be etc.. doesn't sound like a small problem.
It's an odd list of procedures to consider "non-essential".

Then again I remember Doug Ford wanted to remove coverage for general anaesthesia during colonoscopy.
 

Vamphuntr

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,009
Since I was talking about healhtcare challenges a few post above with AB being a cheapskate and cutting everywhere here's another prophetic sign of doom from Rad-Can.

NB will be closing the ER of 6 of its hospitals during the night (22 PM to 8 AM) every single day very soon with the announcement being made on Tuesday.

#brokecountry
 

GSG

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,313
So I've been wondering this for a while, but why is the UN Security Council seat such a high priority for the government?
 

Pedrito

Member
Nov 4, 2017
1,352
So I've been wondering this for a while, but why is the UN Security Council seat such a high priority for the government?
The whole "Canada is back" trope? Trudeau being more about sitting in circle with people and discussing rather than actually doing something?

Also, isn't it like the Olympics and the World Cup where the winning country is one who gave the most scholarships to the children of the world's despots?
 

DarthWalden

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
2,698
So, is the reason for such a high price due to the high up front cost of the infrastructure required to get it running?

I know other sites run around, $30 a barrel to be profitable. But they are older.
The method of extraction and refining is much more expensive in most of the projects in Alberta.

Basically your convention oil well (which is just tapped into a well and extracted using a pump jack) has a break even point at roughlt ~10-15$ per gallon. A majority of the reserves in Saudi Arabia use this method which is why they own the market.

The Mineable oilsands in peticular are incredibly expensive... The oil is mixed into the sand and has to be seperated. For mineable oil sands they use massive trucks and some heavy machinery to basically dig the sand out of the ground and seperate the oil and the sand. In the past 15-20 years they've developed a different method though that involves pumping steam into the ground where the oil is which pushes the oil to the surface.

Both of these have huge upfront construction costs + capital costs meaning the break even point for companies is ~30-40$/barrel for SAGD up to 50$/barrel for the mineable sites (which is what tek is proposing). Lots of factors play into these costs though.

In the US, they already extracted most of the cheap easy wells to extract but thanks to fracking technology they have been able to extract more from these existing wells, (which is how the US went from large importer of oil to now energy independent again) however that also is a cost intensive process and the break even point is ~30-40$. The boom in construction here is basically what has depressed oil prices for the past 5-6 years.

I remeber watching a documentary in ~2007 about peak oil that basically predicted the world would run out of conventional by 2012 and it would send the world into a massive recession and start wars and stuff. Funny in hindsight.

Anyways Tek is what we would consider mineable meaning it has an incredibley high break even point which means even if approved the economics of the project means its highly unlikely it gets built.

There are tons of "approved" projects that have been shelved due to economics.

Its really just politics at this point because at least as far as I can see this thing will never get built.

Either:

Approve the project to score some cheap political points in Alberta and maybe send the message they are open for business well fully understanding it is unlikely to get built

Or

Don't approve the project and ensure it never gets built regardless of market conditions we'll earning you some cheap political points from environmental activists.

TDLR: the project has expensive upkeep due to the extraction process and economically makes zero sense.
 
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SRG01

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,730
The method of extraction and refining is much more expensive in most of the projects in Alberta.

Basically your convention oil well (which is just tapped into a well and extracted using a pump jack) has a break even point at roughlt ~10-15$ per gallon. A majority of the reserves in Saudi Arabia use this method which is why they own the market.

The Mineable oilsands in peticular are incredibly expensive... The oil is mixed into the sand and has to be seperated. For mineable oil sands they use massive trucks and some heavy machinery to basically dig the sand out of the ground and seperate the oil and the sand. In the past 15-20 years they've developed a different method though that involves pumping steam into the ground where the oil is which pushes the oil to the surface.

Both of these have huge upfront construction costs + capital costs meaning the break even point for companies is ~30-40$/barrel for SAGD up to 50$/barrel for the mineable sites (which is what tek is proposing). Lots of factors play into these costs though.

In the US, they already extracted most of the cheap easy wells to extract but thanks to fracking technology they have been able to extract more from these existing wells, (which is how the US went from large importer of oil to now energy independent again) however that also is a cost intensive process and the break even point is ~30-40$. The boom in construction here is basically what has depressed oil prices for the past 5-6 years.

I remeber watching a documentary in ~2007 about peak oil that basically predicted the world would run out of conventional by 2012 and it would send the world into a massive recession and start wars and stuff. Funny in hindsight.

Anyways Tek is what we would consider mineable meaning it has an incredibley high break even point which means even if approved the economics of the project means its highly unlikely it gets built.

There are tons of "approved" projects that have been shelved due to economics.

Its really just politics at this point because at least as far as I can see this thing will never get built.

Either:

Approve the project to score some cheap political points in Alberta and maybe send the message they are open for business well fully understanding it is unlikely to get built

Or

Don't approve the project and ensure it never gets built regardless of market conditions we'll earning you some cheap political points from environmental activists.

TDLR: the project has expensive upkeep due to the extraction process and economically makes zero sense.
To be fair, most people that report on Peak Oil misinterpret what Peak Oil actually means. Right now, we're definitely living in a post-Peak Oil society that has been exacerbated by conventional oil overproduction as well as cheap credit to keep unconventional sources alive.

It's one of the (many) reasons why QE in the states has gone on for as long as it has.
 

gutter_trash

Member
Oct 26, 2017
16,139
Montreal
Cons are in full isolationist mode

Thank God the US is in an election year to drown out Canadian politics news.
----

I was for Harris at first, then she quit, then I went Biden in hopes he would pick Harris as a running mate but now I am convinced that in Post-Trump era that maybe Bernie could be best to take on Trump to win over the poor-whites that Trump won in PA, MI and WI

Sadly Florida will have to be sacrificed because there is no chance that Cuban-Americans and Venezuelan-Americans in Florida will vote for Sanders.

I predict a Trump re-election though, even if I think present day Sanders is the best in the field this current selection.
 

lupinko

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,162
Cons are in full isolationist mode

Thank God the US is in an election year to drown out Canadian politics news.
----

I was for Harris at first, then she quit, then I went Biden in hopes he would pick Harris as a running mate but now I am convinced that in Post-Trump era that maybe Bernie could be best to take on Trump to win over the poor-whites that Trump won in PA, MI and WI

Sadly Florida will have to be sacrificed because there is no chance that Cuban-Americans and Venezuelan-Americans in Florida will vote for Sanders.

I predict a Trump re-election though, even if I think present day Sanders is the best in the field this current selection.
Same, I was on the Warren train but she’s fallen off. Bernie looks to be the best bet because for some reason the US loves its populists. So why not and go for the one on the opposite end of the political spectrum, and who better to take on the hippopotamus in chief.
 

gutter_trash

Member
Oct 26, 2017
16,139
Montreal
Warren is a terrible candidate,
She may be a good Senator but her head to head instincts on campaign mode are terrible in a Trump reality

easy slogans, 3 word catch phrases is what it takes to get the dumb mind on board.
Bernie has hammered the ''Medicare For All'' phrase and it sticks

Nuanced debate is loser's game. Gotta use simple language, simple lines, simple slogans to get inside voter`s brains
Right Wingers are good at this. Left Wingers are usually bad at that

Bernie going simple mode with easy to remember stances is a winner strategy
 
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Kernel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,835
So I've been wondering this for a while, but why is the UN Security Council seat such a high priority for the government?
The world is going to shit.

Canada would be one of the sanest, most progressive countries on the Council if we get in.

It's about maximizing what little global influence we have, considering the US is now a dictatorship and may very well stay one for the foreseeable future.


The way to hit our emission target will be to underreport and lie about them if Cons have any say in it.
 
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Kernel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,835
The party of dinosaurs keeps pushing for more oil.

MacKay promised to bring jobs to the region by supporting big projects similar to the now-cancelled Energy East pipeline that would have transported crude oil from Alberta and Saskatchewan to the east coast for refining and export.

He repeated a familiar Conservative argument stating that Canada must take a global view when it comes to reducing greenhouse gas emissions, and that exporting liquefied natural gas could help reduce emissions in the face of ongoing demand for fossil fuels.

"Even the United Nations has said we're going to be using fossil fuels for 40 years to come," he said. "We could throw all our car keys in Halifax Harbour, turn down the heat, turn off the lights, walk around naked in the dark eating organic beets and it won't make a difference."
Mmmmmkay.


Also conscience rights!

The CPC greatest hits collection, they're all here.
 
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OP
OP
Caz

Caz

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,210
Canada
OpEn FoR bUsInEsS
The party of dinosaurs keeps pushing for more oil.



Mmmmmkay.


Also conscience rights!

The CPC greatest hits collection, they're all here.
Remember when the cons changed who qualified as "status-Indian/Metis" so they would have to pay less money in the long-term?

Or how they cut healthcare coverage for refugees in what the courts ruled was cruel and unusual?

Or how they muzzled scientists for, among other matters, speaking up about how Canada's policies were negatively impacting the climate so that petroleum companies wouldn't have to change their activities?

Fuck you got mine Conscience rights!
 

Pedrito

Member
Nov 4, 2017
1,352
Am I the only one who didn't know that a black woman is officially running for leader of the CPC? Refreshing you say? Well her twitter account is pretty much a bingo card of conservative tropes: oil, deficit, illegal migrants, oil, Toronto Sun, oil, Rebel, free speech on campus, oil, birth tourim, oil, oil, oil...
 
Oct 27, 2017
11,291
Am I the only one who didn't know that a black woman is officially running for leader of the CPC? Refreshing you say? Well her twitter account is pretty much a bingo card of conservative tropes: oil, deficit, illegal migrants, oil, Toronto Sun, oil, Rebel, free speech on campus, oil, birth tourim, oil, oil, oil...
I follow Canadian politics pretty closely and I’ve literally never heard of his person. However, her latest tweet is a triple whammy of calling herself a nationalist who has free speech to call others globalists, so...
 

Kernel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,835
I follow Canadian politics pretty closely and I’ve literally never heard of his person. However, her latest tweet is a triple whammy of calling herself a nationalist who has free speech to call others globalists, so...
There must be some online store or school where these right wing politicians get all their talking points.

And to think Kellie Leitch was once the worst conservative candidate. They've surpassed that now.
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,110
OpEn FoR bUsInEsS

Remember when the cons changed who qualified as "status-Indian/Metis" so they would have to pay less money in the long-term?

Or how they cut healthcare coverage for refugees in what the courts ruled was cruel and unusual?

Or how they muzzled scientists for, among other matters, speaking up about how Canada's policies were negatively impacting the climate so that petroleum companies wouldn't have to change their activities?

Fuck you got mine Conscience rights!

Uh oh, the OPC is going to blame all those on the higher minimum wage and labour costs
 

killerrin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,314
Toronto

Seems likely we are getting a skinner, balder slightly more progressive version of Doug Ford next election.
I'm so ready for the next Liberal Government to do nothing to rollback the stupid Fordian policies until about 6 months before the election! Should be an amazing time while we watch Education and Healthcare basically fall apart under the policies that are allowed to live
 

Kernel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,835
I'm so ready for the next Liberal Government to do nothing to rollback the stupid Fordian policies until about 6 months before the election! Should be an amazing time while we watch Education and Healthcare basically fall apart under the policies that are allowed to live
No more buck a beer and dogs on patios? :(

Education and Healthcare will definitely be a shell of it's former self.

I hope some of the Greenbelt and forests in Ontario will still be around.
 
Oct 27, 2017
11,291
I’d love to know the sales figures on selling beer in grocery stores. Every time I’ve been in a store those shelves are 100% stocked and no one seems to be buying anything.
 

Alavard

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
1,236
I’d love to know the sales figures on selling beer in grocery stores. Every time I’ve been in a store those shelves are 100% stocked and no one seems to be buying anything.
Here in Nepean, I'd say a significant portion of the people checking out have some beer in their groceries. Sometimes I look around and it's like 1 in 4 or 1 in 5 (plus my own beer purchases). The shelves are always stocked, but people are definitely buying.
 
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