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Canada PoliERA |OT| Two Years of Sunny Days? That’s Scheer Madness!

Oct 26, 2017
5,404
OK, so no benefit of the doubt then, I'm evil for being happy with Coalition Avenir for pushing PR. Glad to know what you think of me and others in this thread, now that I've given you 2 opportunities to clarify and refused to. I find the implied judgment you've made unwelcome, as well, but at least we've put it to bed.
Why should I have to justify myself to you? I owe you nothing, and yet you keep trying to pick apart my posts for some bizarre reason. To make yourself feel better? To assert your dominance? I honestly can’t tell.

Next time you feel the need to wring blood from a stone on my account, don’t. And if you choose to continue to, I’ll be contacting a mod. I don’t want your “help”, nor do I feel obligated to change my views to make you feel better about your choices.

Leave me alone.
 
May 30, 2018
322

That slimeball came out with a fake statement.

He's getting called out though.
Man I love my country, but we have to admit we are among the leaders in exporting the alt Right ideology. Scheer gave this weak ass statement because he is afraid of pissing off his base

Rebel media, Faith Goldy, Laura Southern

These guys are definitely innovative leaders in the scum field

Sucks that they are from here
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,159
Toronto
Man I love my country, but we have to admit we are among the leaders in exporting the alt Right ideology. Scheer gave this weak ass statement because he is afraid of pissing off his base
Honestly. It fucking sickens me that this is 100% true and that we aren't doing shit all to curb it. Like where the fuck are we? Why the fuck haven't we started to severely crack down on this shit. We didn't do anything when it happened to us. I can bet we aren't going to do anything when it is New Zealand. So my question is, what the fuck has to happen and how many fucking people have to die before we as a country stand up and start putting an end to these alt right nutjobs.

This whole thing just has me so down. So many innocent lives torn and broken over this hate. Why aren't we doing anything. WHY!

:'(
 
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Oct 25, 2017
1,628
Canada
Honestly. It fucking sickens me that this is 100% true and that we aren't doing shit all to curb it. Like where the fuck are we? Why the fuck haven't we started to severely crack down on this shit. We didn't do anything when it happened to us. I can bet we aren't going to do anything when it is New Zealand. So my question is, what the fuck has to happen and how many fucking people have to die before we as a country stand up and start putting an end to these alt right nutjobs.

This whole thing just has me so down. So many innocent lives torn and broken over this hate. Why aren't we doing anything. WHY!

:'(
Mostly because a lot of Canadians spend too much time patting themselves on the back for not being as bad as the Americans. It's a sick sense of complacency.

Your post prompted me to get some things off my chest about this, sorry.

Truthfully, we have done some things, particularly pushing the alt-right out of the shadows once more people understood what had taken root there. It's forced politicians to try and find meaningful answers to big societal problems and be held to their word so they can't simply offer platitudes while they pretend that those with alt-right views don't control several seats of power in our society, particularly in the public safety and justice systems or (most dangerously) the halls of government.

Good people trying to fix the world systemically agitates the hell out of these people because it means we're doing something right, but that means that they come out in the open, being "provocateurs" (read: recruiters), saying this shit and goading others into terrible violence. All that said, the alternative was those same violent people getting encouragement in private, as it was for several decades and/or centuries prior, so the average person in the late 20th century just wrote the violent alt-right extremists off as one-off nutjobs rather than a systemic problem because they were blind to the scope of the problem. If they even knew about it at all, since the scope of violent hate crimes weren't well-reported for a LONG time.

They had to be exposed so that everyone else could know whether or not they were responsible for aiding them, be forced to make the decision to help them or not and be properly held to account if they continued to do so (at least it's more than just the marginalized in the mix of those who are holding such people to account nowadays), because the most effective way of dealing with them is to figuratively starve them: de-platforming, de-monetizing, de-legitimizing, etc. You can't do that without giving people the knowledge needed to identify who to starve, so you have to make them present and accounted for; it can't be properly addressed otherwise.

But that exposure has led to knowing the cause/incitement and fuller scope of violence and intolerance much more clearly and intimately than ever before. That shit's depressing and the media making the alt-right into some element of Western cultural theatricality instead of a legitimate imminent threat to society doesn't do any favours to actually confronting the problem, only deepening the woe.

I see the alt-right, homophobes and racists much like a boil:

- the cause of it hides on and below the skin in abundance, which may not be immediately apparent until you see it flare up with your own eyes
- it violently flares up suddenly and grows more apparent, painful and potentially deadly until it's gone
- you shouldn't blindly pick at it, in case you drive the infection further in and make it worse
- you should clean the affected area to be rid of anything that has or might come out of it regularly and frequently
- if it doesn't go away with regular cleaning, lance and drain it, no matter how much pain it might cause, to be rid of it once and for all
- if it's too large or you don't feel you can lance it yourself after regular cleaning, you call on someone better equipped and/or trained to do so

I'll admit it's a bit of a clunky metaphor, since boils don't typically fester for decades and getting people better equipped (read: in power) to properly address the alt-right problem seems to require some heavy convincing. But it feels good to compare the alt-right to an unwanted, useless and painful pus-filled sac of staph infection on the skin.

Anyways, the point is that we're only just starting to solve decades-long systemic problems. But there was so much time wasted thinking that the violent resistances that have all coalesced into the alt-right weren't a threat to solving Canada's problems, that violent acts of targeted hate were perpetrated by one-off crazies or that it is "an American problem", there's a lot of catch-up involved.

Believe me, marginalized communities have been (rightfully) terribly impatient at the majority of Canadian society for not catching up to where they were back in the 60s, 70s and 80s any sooner than most did. It's no fun waiting for people to get their shit together while you make plea after plea for people to show some human decency and respect the humanity of them and others.

As long as everyone works towards making the world an actually better place rather than the distorted hellscape the right wants to see, we get closer every day to not needing to condemn them at all, because they'll all be starved out of existence and relevance. But until then, do whatever you can to give them no quarter and you'll feel as good as you can until the boil has been lanced.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,159
Toronto
Surprise! High School Students in Ontario are now required to take 4 courses of "E-Learning" in order to Graduate! Such Efficiencies!

https://news.ontario.ca/edu/en/2019/03/education-that-works-for-you-2.html

You'll get a kick out of some of these quotes

Technology (Broadband)

Digital skills are essential for everyone to be able to safely and effectively use technology. These skills are also needed as students advance in their education journey, and eventually enter the workplace. Broadband is foundational for supporting modernized digital learning in the classroom.

That is why all Ontario students and educators will have access to reliable, fast, secure and affordable internet services at school at a speed of one megabit per-second for every student in all regions of the province. The project will be completed by 2021-22, and will include all boards, schools and students.

This will give students access to technology that will better develop their digital skills and will provide quality broadband service for students in rural and northern communities.

To complete this project, the needs of each school will be individually assessed and then individual technical solutions will be implemented. Broadband expansion is underway at a majority of northern and rural schools. Already 32 per cent of northern schools have completed their upgrades, and 35 per cent of rural schools have been completed.

This infrastructure will support enhanced e-learning opportunities and access for students to the ministry's Virtual Learning Environment wherever educational resources are available.
TLDR: Apparently 1MB/S is "reliable, fast, secure and affordable". But don't worry. Poor people and kids from poverty families will definitely be able to afford this broadband connection bestowed to them from our lord and saviour Robellus for a small, recurring fee of $100/mo.

Also Conservatives: BuT bRoAdBaNd HiGhSpEeD iNtErNeT iSn"t A nEcEsSiTy!1!1!

E-learning

The government is committed to modernizing education and supporting students and families in innovative ways that enhance their success. A link to e-learning courses can be found here: www.edu.gov.on.ca/elearning/courses.html.

Starting in 2020-21, the government will centralize the delivery of all e-learning courses to allow students greater access to programming and educational opportunities, no matter where they live in Ontario.

Secondary students will take a minimum of four e-learning credits out of the 30 credits needed to fulfill the requirements for achieving an Ontario Secondary School Diploma. That is equivalent to one credit per year, with exemptions for some students on an individualized basis. These changes will be phased in, starting in 2020-21.

With these additional modernizations, the secondary program enhancement grant will no longer be required.
Did somebody say "NobodyNo managementNo Front Line WorkersEverybody will lose their jobs". Because one E-course can solve all the self-inflicted classroom size limitations.

Also don't look over here. This doesn't conflict with this other policy, what so ever
Cellphones

During the consultation on education reform in fall 2018, parents, students and teachers told us cellphones have the potential to be useful learning tools — but too often they are a distraction from learning and have a negative impact on the classroom experience.

In response to this feedback, the Provincial Code of Conduct will be updated to prohibit cellphone use in schools during instructional time, as of September 2019.

Use of cellphones during instructional time will be permitted under the following circumstances:
  • For educational purposes, as directed by the educator.
  • For health and medical purposes.
  • To support students with special education needs.


Boards and stakeholders will be consulted to ensure students and parents are clear on the new guidelines, including exceptions.

The Provincial Code of Conduct sets clear provincial standards of behaviour. All school boards must ensure that their board codes of conduct are up to date and consistent with the provincial Code of Conduct.
No sir-eee. Online Courses for all! But you can not under any circumstances use your phone. Except when you can. But you really shouldn't. Because you are totally going to listen to me. Listen to your schools policy kids!

I can rip this whole fucking thing to shreds. Fuck Doug Ford! FUCK YOU YOU INEPT BASTARDS! I fear for my Sister and Brother who will be entering High School and Preschool under this fucking inept administration.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
768
Andrew Coyne calls out Scheer for his garbage twitter response

Andrew Coyne: Why does Andrew Scheer find it so difficult to say the right thing?
Scheer has been too eager to appease, or too afraid to offend, a section of opinion that is at best filled with fear and at worst filled with hate

Hours later, Andrew Scheer said the things he should have said the first time.

Responding to the horrific massacre of Muslims at prayer in New Zealand, the Conservative leader issued a statement Friday afternoon expressing his “profound condemnation of this cowardly and hateful attack on the Muslim community” along with “the type of extreme and vile hatred that motivated this despicable act of evil.” He added: “To the Muslim community around the world and here at home in Canada, we stand with you.”

It was spot on: straightforward, fitting and right. It was also about 15 hours too late, coming as it did only after Scheer had come under intense criticism for the inadequacy of his first response, which spoke vaguely of an attack on “freedom” and unspecified “worshippers.” The appositeness of the second only highlighted the strange, withholding coldness of the first.

We cannot know exactly what explains that initial, catastrophic choice of words. But neither is Scheer automatically entitled to the benefit of the doubt. Politicians are in the business of being politic, of saying the right thing at the right time, and nothing goes out over their name without a great deal of thought, not to say calculation.

Other party leaders managed to name the victims — Muslims — and the beliefs — white supremacism, Islamophobia, the familiar, toxic mix of racism, xenophobia and hatred that so often finds Muslims as its target — involved in what was self-evidently an act of terrorism. Why on earth couldn’t Scheer?

...
 
Feb 19, 2018
4,400
Surprise! High School Students in Ontario are now required to take 4 courses of "E-Learning" in order to Graduate! Such Efficiencies!

https://news.ontario.ca/edu/en/2019/03/education-that-works-for-you-2.html

You'll get a kick out of some of these quotes



TLDR: Apparently 1MB/S is "reliable, fast, secure and affordable". But don't worry. Poor people and kids from poverty families will definitely be able to afford this broadband connection bestowed to them from our lord and saviour Robellus for a small, recurring fee of $100/mo.

Also Conservatives: BuT bRoAdBaNd HiGhSpEeD iNtErNeT iSn"t A nEcEsSiTy!1!1!



Did somebody say "NobodyNo managementNo Front Line WorkersEverybody will lose their jobs". Because one E-course can solve all the self-inflicted classroom size limitations.

Also don't look over here. This doesn't conflict with this other policy, what so ever


No sir-eee. Online Courses for all! But you can not under any circumstances use your phone. Except when you can. But you really shouldn't. Because you are totally going to listen to me. Listen to your schools policy kids!

I can rip this whole fucking thing to shreds. Fuck Doug Ford! FUCK YOU YOU INEPT BASTARDS! I fear for my Sister and Brother who will be entering High School and Preschool under this fucking inept administration.

Surprise! High School Students in Ontario are now required to take 4 courses of "E-Learning" in order to Graduate! Such Efficiencies!

https://news.ontario.ca/edu/en/2019/03/education-that-works-for-you-2.html

You'll get a kick out of some of these quotes



TLDR: Apparently 1MB/S is "reliable, fast, secure and affordable". But don't worry. Poor people and kids from poverty families will definitely be able to afford this broadband connection bestowed to them from our lord and saviour Robellus for a small, recurring fee of $100/mo.

Also Conservatives: BuT bRoAdBaNd HiGhSpEeD iNtErNeT iSn"t A nEcEsSiTy!1!1!



Did somebody say "NobodyNo managementNo Front Line WorkersEverybody will lose their jobs". Because one E-course can solve all the self-inflicted classroom size limitations.

Also don't look over here. This doesn't conflict with this other policy, what so ever


No sir-eee. Online Courses for all! But you can not under any circumstances use your phone. Except when you can. But you really shouldn't. Because you are totally going to listen to me. Listen to your schools policy kids!

I can rip this whole fucking thing to shreds. Fuck Doug Ford! FUCK YOU YOU INEPT BASTARDS! I fear for my Sister and Brother who will be entering High School and Preschool under this fucking inept administration.
So many jobs lost. OECTA says 5000 jobs lost, 5,500 for ESSFO. Now unions tend to exagerate.....but jobs will be effected. The only "mercy" the conservatives provided is that it's phased in over 4 years to retirements and a job freeze will help alot. Also, anyone who has ever taken an online course knows you learn basically fuck all
 
How would this E Learning stuff work anyways?

Will kids have a period for this online class? Will there be a classroom kids will be in to learn this, (which defeats the point?)

or is it like in university where you essentially work at your own pace?

Doesn't seem well thought out so far
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,422
https://pressprogress.ca/here_are_s...eader_andrew_scheer_deleted_from_his_website/

Old article showing what Andrew Scheer deleted from his website shortly after winning the leadership.

  1. Winking at backbenchers to table anti-abortion legislation
  2. Press releases listing Rebel Media executives as contacts
  3. Opposing motions condemning racism and Islamophobia he previously supported
  4. Backing the Fraser Institute’s dream of subsidizing private schools
  5. Punishing universities that don’t accommodate anti-abortion groups
Feels like the Canadian Taliban are here.

Little reminder that this asshole can't win.

It's going to be one dirty election though.
 
Oct 26, 2017
5,404
https://pressprogress.ca/here_are_s...eader_andrew_scheer_deleted_from_his_website/

Old article showing what Andrew Scheer deleted from his website shortly after winning the leadership.

  1. Winking at backbenchers to table anti-abortion legislation
  2. Press releases listing Rebel Media executives as contacts
  3. Opposing motions condemning racism and Islamophobia he previously supported
  4. Backing the Fraser Institute’s dream of subsidizing private schools
  5. Punishing universities that don’t accommodate anti-abortion groups
Feels like the Canadian Taliban are here.

Little reminder that this asshole can't win.

It's going to be one dirty election though.
It feels like madness that anyone would even consider voting for these monsters.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,628
Canada
Little reminder that this asshole can't win.

It's going to be one dirty election though.
The real saving grace is that Tories are patting themselves on the back that they're going to have an easier time, but this election isn't going to play out like 2015, the rules changed, and Scheer really hasn't been stress-tested for being under the giant microscope that election season puts leaders under.

Especially when all the advantages Harper had are gone.
He can't horse-trade to get a deal that works in his favour when it comes to the national debates by attempting party exclusion or setting the agenda. (the debates are really going to be a spectacle to behold this time around and could really make or break the election for all of them, I feel it in my bones)
He doesn't have the undivided attention of the far right that he needs to win, who have in the past been won over with mealy-mouthed right-wing sentiment and dogwhistles when Bernier will outdo him at every turn by saying what those voters want to hear outright.
And based on everything up until recently, swing voters barely know who he is and/or don't care to because of what little they find. Any gains the party might have made from the SNC-Lavalin debacle aren't going to last when the man leading the party is so unappealing for partisan AND non-partisan reasons.

Really, Scheer's best hope is that Jagmeet Singh pulls off the greatest magic trick in Canadian political history and does serious vote-splitting damage, but the odds of that are poor.

We don't have any reason for complacency, but the Tories have enough rope for Scheer to hang himself 3 times over and I fully expect him to crumple under the pressure of election season in some fashion. Only question is how bad it'll be.
 
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Oct 27, 2017
423
The real saving grace is that Tories are patting themselves on the back that they're going to have an easier time, but this election isn't going to play out like 2015, the rules changed, and Scheer really hasn't been stress-tested for being under the giant microscope that election season puts leaders under.

Especially when all the advantages Harper had are gone.
He can't horse-trade to get a deal that works in his favour when it comes to the national debates by attempting party exclusion or setting the agenda. (the debates are really going to be a spectacle to behold this time around and could really make or break the election for all of them, I feel it in my bones)
He doesn't have the undivided attention of the far right that he needs to win, who have in the past been won over with mealy-mouthed right-wing sentiment and dogwhistles when Bernier will outdo him at every turn by saying what those voters want to hear outright.
And based on everything up until recently, swing voters barely know who he is and/or don't care to because of what little they find. Any gains the party might have made from the SNC-Lavalin debacle aren't going to last when the man leading the party is so unappealing for partisan AND non-partisan reasons.

Really, Scheer's best hope is that Jagmeet Singh pulls off the greatest magic trick in Canadian political history and does serious vote-splitting damage, but the odds of that are poor.

We don't have any reason for complacency, but the Tories have enough rope for Scheer to hang himself 3 times over and I fully expect him to crumple under the pressure of election season in some fashion. Only question is how bad it'll be.
Cons are going to win. See: overton window and constant scandal reminders (snc is "but her emails" )
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,136
Holy shit - increasing average classroom sizes in highschool from 22 to 28? That's a huge damn increase. More kids are going to drop out from that alone, and still more others will just barely skate by.

And LOL at 1megabit/s internet access. The school boards have -terrible- internet connections. Staff systems themselves are often down and slowing or stopping the work of teachers and counsellors. And making online courses mandatory? For what? (Aside from sliding in yet higher class sizes and lowering class quality further). Taking an online course in itself is not a key, relevant tech skill students have to learn...

Another hot load of garbage from the administration of a giant piece of shit.
 
Oct 25, 2017
768
Singh is in the house next week, and then almost immediately there's the budget on Tuesday. Should make for a very interesting week.

Here's an interview with Singh where he discusses the upcoming session of parliament and current events.

Singh says it would be 'obstruction' to not allow Wilson-Raybould to testify again

If Jody Wilson-Raybould wants to testify a second time before the House of Commons Justice Committee but isn’t given the chance, that amounts to "an obstruction, absolutely,” says NDP Leader Jagmeet Singh.
...
... Touching on his election strategy, Singh said the NDP will “provide a real contrast” to Trudeau’s Liberals.

“Right now we see a scandal where there’s political interference, where well-connected executives of a corporation have a direct line of access can call up the prime minister of his office and get laws changed and can see attorneys-general that are being pressured to change their position,” he said.

“Instead, we want to say to people, listen, we don’t believe that’s the way government should operate. We believe government should be on people’s side working for people and putting forward their priorities.”

The Liberals are set to unveil their latest budget on Tuesday—Singh’s second day on the job. Details on a Liberal pharmacare plan could be unveiled.

The NDP has already proposed a universal, public pharmacare program if elected. Anything short of that, Singh says, simply isn’t good enough.

“We’re not looking for a U.S.-style patchwork system, which is what the Liberals are going to propose. We’ve heard that, we’ve seen them hinting at it. That is not good for Canadians. It doesn’t help all Canadians. Millions of Canadians will not be protected by that type of plan,” he said.

“What we want is a universal, national, public, single-payer, medication-for-all program, much like we’ve seen in other countries where it’s effective at giving everyone the care they need, reduce costs and (it’s) just something that makes sense.”

...
 
Oct 27, 2017
423
We'll see if the old Ontario 'vote the opposite of provincial government of the day' will hold true, and Ford being buddy-buddy with old Alt-Right Scheer won't do the Cons any favours
People pissed about Autism funding and classroom sizes ("no teachers are getting fired!") are greatly outweighed by "but his SNC"
 
OP
OP
Caz

Caz

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,155
Canada
Cons are going to win. See: overton window and constant scandal reminders (snc is "but her emails" )
"But her e-mails" was the result of literal decades of Fox propaganda and even that didn't sink Clinton; all data suggests she would have won were Comey not to have released that letter. That aside, I have a hard time seeing much of an opening for the CPC to take advantage of, not just because of the possibility of them splitting the vote with the PPC; the maritime provinces, the territories, Quebec and B.C. seats are likely to be held by the LPC while Alberta through Saskatchewan will be swept by the CPC, leaving Ontario as the deciding factor in the next election. Considering how people there consider Ford to be the biggest problem the province is facing (bigger that climate change!), I have a hard time they'll take to the CPC and Scheer, specifically because Scheer has done little to distance himself from Dumb Ford and the OPC.

This is part of the reason why, as i'll get into when I do my Canada Election 2019 video, I feel that 2023 is the year we should be dreading depending on just how bad things go on election day (assuming the government we end up with is a majority and not a minority); the PPC's presence, however small it may be, is going to have a highly toxic effect on Canadian politics.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,134
It's really time for introspection. Time to update our hate speech laws and have a mandatory nation wide press council to keep opinions peddlers in check. Many big Canadian publications are peddling hatred fueled garbage days after days and are normalizing that kind of content. It's time for it to stop.

You would think something would have been after the Mosque shooting in QC but the usual suspects ran behind the "mental illness" excuse and started again with the same rhetoric.

It's mind boggling Erza Levant still has his trash website to sell his hatred. It's also disappointing that the same thrash radios stations in QC are still operating and peddling their daily garbage.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,628
Canada

I hope those are bots or fake troll accounts.
They're not.

Go deep into the rural areas of Saskatchewan and you'll hear revolting talk of people wanting to "gun down all the natives" as though it were a problem-solving necessity from nearly any conversation with older white people (the younger ones save it for Facebook). I can rightfully assume that same feeling may extend to a other visible minority groups and even some invisible ones.

It's why I tend to keep to myself as much as I can when I go up to lake country, because you're guaranteed that so many of the locals are braindead angry bigots and I refuse to give them any opportunity to get some extra time on the proverbial soapbox they drag around with them everywhere they go.

Case in point:

https://thestarphoenix.com/news/loc...s-down-reverse-racism-rant-at-sarm-convention

The Saskatchewan Association of Rural Municipalities says it does not tolerate racist remarks.

SARM’s statement comes days after a provincial cabinet minister shut down a rant about “reverse racism” against white people during a question-and-answer session at the association’s annual convention.

According to multiple people who were the in room on Tuesday afternoon, an unidentified man began asking questions about self- and property-defence rights before making comments that have been describe as racist and inappropriate.

Corrections and Policing Minister Christine Tell said she and other panellists, Deputy Minister Dale Larsen and RCMP ‘F’ Division Assistant Commissioner Mark Fisher, tensed as the man complained about “reverse racism” and used phrases like, “It’s the natives against us.”

“I’d had enough … I told him this isn’t appropriate here or anywhere, this is not helpful at all. I said, ‘You need to leave,’ ” Tell said.
People like that love to work themselves and others into a lather at the drop of a hat. Good job on the Corrections and Policing Minister for shutting that shit down, but the Sask Party's actions and dog-whistling since the Colton Boushie killing (and Tell herself having little to nothing to say about a property self-defence lobbying motion that was passed by SARM) indicates to me that she was more offended by him saying it in public while people were watching, instead of just thinking it or vaguely alluding to it so as not to rouse ire and sully the illusion of respectability. But that's just supposition on my part.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,422
https://globalnews.ca/news/5066631/randy-hillier-statement-pc-caucus-ford-government/

The MPP gives 10 main reasons that he believes he was expelled from caucus, which include: “My refusal to breach oath of office, my refusal to accept the obstruction and prevention of caucus criticism or input on public policy, for raising concerns of possible illegal and unregistered lobbying by close friends and advisers employed by Premier Ford, my refusal not to stand and applaud for the routine.”

Hillier also alleges he was told he needed to seek “permission” to attend his brother’s funeral.


Ford and Kenney are competing for most corrupt provincial party in Canada.
 
Oct 27, 2017
892
Canada
I think the roles should probably be split, but I don't think that would have kept things from happening.

The Open and Accountable Government manual Trudeau sent to his ministers already made it clear that "The Attorney General and the DPP are bound by the constitutional principle that the prosecutorial function be exercised independently of partisan concerns."

That didn't stop Trudeau et al from bringing up electoral calculations as part of their arguments. Merely splitting the roles off to another person just means that person would have been the subject of the pressure.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,701
I think the roles should probably be split, but I don't think that would have kept things from happening.

The Open and Accountable Government manual Trudeau sent to his ministers already made it clear that "The Attorney General and the DPP are bound by the constitutional principle that the prosecutorial function be exercised independently of partisan concerns."

That didn't stop Trudeau et al from bringing up electoral calculations as part of their arguments. Merely splitting the roles off to another person just means that person would have been the subject of the pressure.
But that's pretty much the problem since I see two things that can be argued on: whether the 'request' was made of JWR as Justice Minister or Attorney General, and whether or not the matter was partisan in nature.

The best solution would be to put the AG position into a separate position in the civil service, much like how the Auditor General is its own position and office.
 
lmao Trudeau asks one of his own to examine issue and we're supposed to think this clears the air?

in before: "yep no wrongdoing found" sez ex-Liberal Minister.
It’s not an appointment for like a criminal investigation, it’s an advisory for the PM role for what went wrong and if changes need to be made going forward. Should we split the AG and Minister of Justice? I think so.

There’s still an ethics inquiry into it and that isn’t one the PMO can call off or for. And if the RCMP wants to get involved they are following developments so we gotta wait and see. But examining the conflict of being the AG and the MoJ is something that should be looked into in the mean time

Also also, with regard to JWR speaking at committee again, should she want to speak out/accuse the PM directly of acting illegally, she can do so with no legal repercussions in the House of Commons. She’s protected under Parlimentary Privilege.
 
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Oct 26, 2017
10,769
Montreal
back from my "hiatus"

2 points

1, you guys in English Canada are way off your rocker believing Andrew Sheer's "intentions" and '"sincerity" concerning JWR and SNC Lavelin non-story.

2. NDP Singh LOL pandering to Quebec Nationalists by openly selecting "separatist" candidates to run Federally.
What is this? Bloc Junior? Making Boulerice (a 1995 Yes voter) as Deputy Leader? Hahaha what a total backstab to all minorities
 
Oct 27, 2017
892
Canada
But that's pretty much the problem since I see two things that can be argued on: whether the 'request' was made of JWR as Justice Minister or Attorney General, and whether or not the matter was partisan in nature.

The best solution would be to put the AG position into a separate position in the civil service, much like how the Auditor General is its own position and office.
If the root cause of this was the confusion of those who were applying the pressure about which hat JWR was wearing when they were talking ot her they should have been dispelled of that after one of the times JWR said what they were doing was inappropriate. Nevertheless, they persisted.

Apparently making the Attorney General an Officer of Parliament like the Auditor General wouldn't work:


I've seen suggestions of just straight-up copying the UK and giving it to an MP who stays out of cabinet would be an improvement. A suggestion that it could be a senator appointed to that role is interesting too. In any case, it's something that should be given careful study (and preferably not by somebody fundraising for the Liberals later in the month).

back from my "hiatus"

2 points

1, you guys in English Canada are way off your rocker believing Andrew Sheer's "intentions" and '"sincerity" concerning JWR and SNC Lavelin non-story.

Alright, let's completely dismiss what Scheer's saying about the scandal because he's a Conservative with terrible judgement. What about Elizabeth May or Nathan Cullen?
 
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Oct 27, 2017
1,741
Alright, let's completely dismiss what Scheer's saying about the scandal because he's a Conservative with terrible judgement. What about Elizabeth May or Nathan Cullen?
The problem is that you're listing partisans on their take of the matter. The credibility of politicians policing other politicians is weak at best considering this opens up the opportunity for grand standing. Kinda like the Duffy affair. At the end of the day no one ever gets charged in these things so it's a lot of song and dance for nothing.

Now if people want to approach this through a partisan sense be my guest, but listing members of opposition parties salivating at the proposition of taking down Trudeau ruins the credibility of their arguments. Don't make me post Charlie Angus' twitter post again...
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,701
If the root cause of this was the confusion of those who were applying the pressure about which hat JWR was wearing when they were talking ot her they should have been dispelled of that after one of the times JWR said what they were doing was inappropriate. Nevertheless, they persisted.

Apparently making the Attorney General an Officer of Parliament like the Auditor General wouldn't work:


I've seen suggestions of just straight-up copying the UK and giving it to an MP who stays out of cabinet would be an improvement. A suggestion that it could be a senator appointed to that role is interesting too. In any case, it's something that should be given careful study (and preferably not by somebody fundraising for the Liberals later in the month).
That's actually a very good point, and a very good distinction from the current Auditor General position since they don't have executory powers.

But the problem with it being an MP is that it can potentially have partisan interference as well. Kind of like how the Speaker 'theoretically' isn't a partisan role, but we've seen otherwise in the past.

Alternatively, it can be rolled into the judicial system -- similar to how the Supreme Court is appointed. But that might require a constitutional change as it directly affects how the Judicial branch is organized.

(And yes, they persisted. That part was... not great :( )
 
Oct 27, 2017
892
Canada
The problem is that you're listing partisans on their take of the matter. The credibility of politicians policing other politicians is weak at best considering this opens up the opportunity for grand standing. Kinda like the Duffy affair. At the end of the day no one ever gets charged in these things so it's a lot of song and dance for nothing.

Now if people want to approach this through a partisan sense be my guest, but listing members of opposition parties salivating at the proposition of taking down Trudeau ruins the credibility of their arguments. Don't make me post Charlie Angus' twitter post again...
Duffy did get charged. Plus criminality is not the only level of wrongdoing.

And if you're looking for a non-partisan lens there's plenty of people out there, even if you decide to completely exclude newspaper columnists, who think there's something wrong here:


Of course we could get this out of the partisan realm if the government would just do the right thing call an independent inquiry instead of using their party's majority on the Justice Committee to stonewall.

And I don't see how Angus's Tweet about JWR being a poor Justice Minister is wrong. The impaired driving bill may as well have been a CPC private members bill, the Liberals haven't delivered on their promises of criminal justice reform or even rolling back mandatory minimum sentences. Though we all know this government hasn't delivered on a lot of promises, they still haven't rolled back the parts of C-51 they said they were going to.

While JWR doesn't appear to have been a good Justice Minister to me, it seems she did a good job with the Attorney General hat, at least in this case, of protecting prosecutorial independence.