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gutter_trash

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
17,124
Montreal
NDP are co-Conservative conspirators

NDP's endgame is the same as the Conservatives: Destroy the Liberal Party.

Good on Elizabeth May for dropping the the Truth Bombs
 

djkimothy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,456
I know it enters conspiracy territory but it almost leads me to believe the NDP wanted electoral reform to fail so they could bring that back to the NDP voters.

Or maybe i'm being too cynical.
 

killerrin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,237
Toronto
LOL. This is why the NDP are so irrelevant. Nested thread.

The NDP would rather cooperate with the Conservatives to block government work even though their policies largely align with Liberals. Forcing the liberals to use time allocation. No one looks good in this but i can see why people are leaving the NDP.




Jesus Christ Federal NDP. Why can't you be more like your provincial counterparts. They still manage to oppose Conservatives while not blindly disagreeing with things just to oppose. But you know what they say. Power corrupts. You get close to power and you throw all your morals out the window.

The funny thing here is that the Youth Vote has been moving towards the Greens for awhile. So the more the NDP tries to fit in and make itself electable in a political niche that is already cramped, the more the Greens will continue to eat the NDP base.
 

gutter_trash

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
17,124
Montreal
NDP and Conservatives are partners in toxic polarization politics, both want a Hard Left vs Hard Right political toxic polarized arena.

Kudos to Elizabeth May for being the only adult in the room

Young people are abandoning the NDP anyway for the Greens
 
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djkimothy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,456
How did we even get here? It's like our version of Game of Thrones season 8 levels of lunacy.

The provincial NDP are definitely more level headed and consistent with their politics but the federal party just hired D&D to navigate through their political fortunes.
 

gutter_trash

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
17,124
Montreal
But centrism is evil i've been told.
In the US maybe, their poilitics are so Far-Right that their version of the Centre is basically vanilla Right or Centre-Right

too much discourse gets US centric.

Canada has the Canada Health Act, our Supreme Court has settled the abortion issue, Death Penalty has been abolished a long time ago, things that a supposedly resolved here have not in the States.
 

lupinko

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,154
In the US maybe, their poilitics are so Far-Right that their version of the Centre is basically vanilla Right or Centre-Right

too much discourse gets US centric.

Canada has the Canada Health Act, our Supreme Court has settled the abortion issue, Death Penalty has been abolished a long time ago, things that a supposedly resolved here have not in the States.

Doug Ford is trying to break enough of Ontario to try and challenge some of those from the looks of it.
 

Kernel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,859
Doug Ford is trying to break enough of Ontario to try and challenge some of those from the looks of it.

You can also expect us to grovel and pay up to join the US Ballistic Missile Defense System so a ton of money will be diverted there, probably from benefit payments among other things.

We will also capitulate to the US on the Northwest Passage.
 

Tiktaalik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,426
The dynamic that previous elections and by-elections have shown is that the Green Party is the natural home for disaffected Liberal voters, which is why they're playing nice with the Federal Liberals instead of behaving like an opposition party. They want Liberal voters to feel comfortable in punishing Trudeau and voting for the Greens.

In other Green Party news. They've announced their big climate emergency platform and it is pretty bold and good.



My main criticism of it is that it is peculiar in omitting emphasis on public transportation (except inter city rural lines), active transportation, land use reform and other measures that would help low income persons. Electric cars are of course mentioned, but there's seemingly little help here to assist people that can't afford a new car in lowering their carbon use.
 

bremon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,852
Fuck the federal NDP. What a bunch of rudderless fools. I'm coming around on the Green Party. They'll likely never run a candidate in my riding and anyone who doesn't run for CPC loses here but maybe I'll start spending some of my meagre donation money on the greens as well. I'll likely vote Liberal still. I'm embarrassed that I voted NDP federally last time around.

Thanks for spoiling it for me in the totally germane Can Poli thread before you tagged it
If it helps; season 8 is shittier than the CPC.

What is with the historical revisionism that Paul Martin was this good, pure, progressive dude, when in reality the progressive policies from that government appeared because it was a minority parliament and Layton had him by the balls and said I'm literally going to vote against everything your government puts forward until you cave on my demands. That's what opposition parties do folks.
This just pisses me off even more. Paul Martin was a clown PM but Jack's electoral achievements have been eroded and Singh doesn't have half the charisma he had. Singh should have been a star in Ontario and left the federal apparatus alone.
 

lupinko

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,154
Fuck the federal NDP. What a bunch of rudderless fools. I'm coming around on the Green Party. They'll likely never run a candidate in my riding and anyone who doesn't run for CPC loses here but maybe I'll start spending some of my meagre donation money on the greens as well. I'll likely vote Liberal still. I'm embarrassed that I voted NDP federally last time around.

If it helps; season 8 is shittier than the CPC.


This just pisses me off even more. Paul Martin was a clown PM but Jack's electoral achievements have been eroded and Singh doesn't have half the charisma he had. Singh should have been a star in Ontario and left the federal apparatus alone.

I'm still annoyed that he ran in my old riding's neighbour. I know it's a common practice to run in safe ridings, but to hear him say he will fight for Burnaby was a joke. Dude had never been in BC prior let alone ever leaving Ontario.
 

djkimothy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,456
I'm still annoyed that he ran in my old riding's neighbour. I know it's a common practice to run in safe ridings, but to hear him say he will fight for Burnaby was a joke. Dude had never been in BC prior let alone ever leaving Ontario.

The grand irony is his position on the liquid natural gas plant wrt the BC premier. And on top of that NDP supporters position on resource management. They're all at odds with each other. It's like the Guy Caron interview thing all over again where no one in NDP land has a consistent message and is double clutching on their position. This is what happens when you don't compromise on your platform and think that in snapping your fingers, resource extraction will just disappear.

Singh picked a wrong time to be a hard liner on resource management/environment when his provincial counterparts in TWO different provinces has reneged on "BOLD" environmental changes and wanted to go forward with energy projects. Call the lIberal plan inadequate all you want but they politically have more wiggle room. Now with the federal NDP playing footsies with the Conservatives I swear to god they got Tyrion Lannister giving them policy advice.

From a recent interview: https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/powerandpolitics/jagmeet-singh-lng-natural-gas-1.5136172
VK: Do you support B.C.'s LNG project?

JS: Well, British Columbia's got one of the most ambitious climate change plans in North America. They've got an aggressive plan. My concern is that, what we need to do is, we all know this, the future of energy in not just Canada, but in the world, has to be a future where we're not burning, we're not fracking and we're not using fossil fuels. The energy has to be renewable. That's the future of Canada. And my focus is on, right now, we've got a project in front of us at the federal level which is Trans Mountain pipeline. That project cannot go ahead. We will not meet our targets if that project goes ahead. There's massive threat to the coast. Massive concerns around tanker traffic of diluted bitumen and if it spills that we can't clean it. And there's been serious concerns about Indigenous consultation. That's why I'm opposed to Trans Mountain.

VK: That's a great answer for Trans Mountain, but I asked you about B.C. and LNG. Do you support the project? And I'm asking you because you were asked repeatedly yesterday that question, you didn't answer it directly. I know you're talking about fracking. Fracking is part of that project. Do you support the development of that project that you know clearly the B.C. NDP do?

JS: So B.C. has got a great plan in terms of fighting climate change. They've got one of the best plans in the country. My focus is on what we can do at the federal level and what we can do at the federal level is stop Mr. Trudeau, stop the prime minister from going ahead with a project which is going to exceed our emissions and it's going to massively disrespect the Indigenous communities that are already raising concern.

VK: There is federal jurisdiction over the Coastal Link pipeline?

JS: Right now the project that's in the pipeline, no pun intended, the project that's moving that, right now, the government (is) signalling that they're going to try to move ahead with, is a project that I'm focused on. We've got to stop this Trans Mountain project because this pipeline is massively concerning to the coastline. The Indigenous communities are fighting it in court and they've won in court.

VK: With respect, environmentalists say the same thing about the B.C. LNG project — that it's going to increase carbon emissions. There are Indigenous groups fighting that pipeline as well. In fact, the last time we had you on the show, you were talking about the Coastal Link pipeline and their opposition there. So the same concerns are being expressed about this project. You had months ago said that you supported it, you felt like the government had consulted widely. Do you still support it?

JS: B.C.'s got a great plan to fight climate change. My concern is they don't have a partner at the federal level. You've got a federal government, Mr. Trudeau and the federal Liberals, who are spending millions of dollars to give to Loblaws, that's a billionaire company, they're purchasing a pipeline and trying to build another pipeline. That's where I'm fighting that's where I'm focusing on.

VK: Okay, I tried. Thank you Mr. Singh, appreciate your time.

JS: Thank you.
 

bremon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,852
Vassy must have a frustrating job. Politicians are like children, they'll take any opportunity to go off on a tangent instead of answering questions directly. So stupid.

As for Singh, his stance makes it easy to see he's not interested in governing in the fall. His principles are admirable but I think they're making the choice easier for voters.
 

djkimothy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,456
Vassy must have a frustrating job. Politicians are like children, they'll take any opportunity to go off on a tangent instead of answering questions directly. So stupid.

As for Singh, his stance makes it easy to see he's not interested in governing in the fall. His principles are admirable but I think they're making the choice easier for voters.

I almost don't see the point of this punditry as we adopt US style entertainment hooks and baiting to get eyes on screen. When at the end of the day these shows don't hold anyone to account and they use political operatives to comment on policy like RACHEL CURRAN instead of actual subject matter experts. It's one of the reasons why climate change policy is having such a hard time penetrating the Canadian psyche.
 

firehawk12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,161
Or compromise is a necessary evil in democracy.

Depends on your point of view.
Centrism is why we want to drill for oil in one of the most environmentally destructive circumstances possible and risk polluting land and sea through a spill, but we also somehow think climate change is bad and we need to solve it.

It's also why we don't have formal abortion protections and rely on Supreme Court loopholes that protect a woman's right to personal security rather than explicitly declaring that a woman has the right to an abortion which had allowed provinces to defund abortion clinics in Atlantic Canada and cause women there to spend thousands of dollars travelling to get an abortion.

But hey, compromise is good?

(I honestly can't believe we were about to let the courts rule bans on marriage equality to be illegal before the liberals finally did the right thing and passed a law before the Supreme Court had to rule. But everyone was too afraid to do the right thing until Paul Martin of all people fell off the liberal centrist platform for a moment and did the right thing)
 

bremon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,852
I almost don't see the point of this punditry as we adopt US style entertainment hooks and baiting to get eyes on screen. When at the end of the day these shows don't hold anyone to account and they use political operatives to comment on policy like RACHEL CURRAN instead of actual subject matter experts. It's one of the reasons why climate change policy is having such a hard time penetrating the Canadian psyche.
She really is trash. Pretty bad when even Stockwell Day is more honest with regards to bad optics for his favourite team. I wonder what circle of Hell she's been promised control of by Harper lol.

But hey, compromise is good?
better is always possible, but so far after more than half a century and 15+ elections the orange team has failed to effectively communicate why they are synonymous with better.
 

SRG01

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,014
Fuck the federal NDP. What a bunch of rudderless fools. I'm coming around on the Green Party. They'll likely never run a candidate in my riding and anyone who doesn't run for CPC loses here but maybe I'll start spending some of my meagre donation money on the greens as well. I'll likely vote Liberal still. I'm embarrassed that I voted NDP federally last time around.

If it helps; season 8 is shittier than the CPC.


This just pisses me off even more. Paul Martin was a clown PM but Jack's electoral achievements have been eroded and Singh doesn't have half the charisma he had. Singh should have been a star in Ontario and left the federal apparatus alone.

Which riding are you in? They ran a candidate in my riding in Edmonton...
 

killerrin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,237
Toronto
better is always possible, but so far after more than half a century and 15+ elections the orange team has failed to effectively communicate why they are synonymous with better.

If we are going this route. Let's also not pretend that social NDP policy isnt backed up by decades upon decades of verifiable scientific research. Quite frankly they have solutions that if implemented would immediately solve several issues facing society at large at the expense of a one-time tax increase.

But when the Conservative policy is slash and burn the entire concept of Government to the ground, and the NDP policy is to improve services wholesale with increased government. The Liberals being the centralist that they are are going to pick the position of doing nothing unless they are at risk of losing an election.
 
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firehawk12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,161
better is always possible, but so far after more than half a century and 15+ elections the orange team has failed to effectively communicate why they are synonymous with better.
I think the reality is that the Canadian default is mostly right of center, particularly after various socioeconomic discourses of the 80s defined everyday life for a generation. Austerity and privatization isn't something "new" or some kind of surprise. It's actually what people want.

And that's before we get into regressive social politics like "ban the burqa" and all that stuff.
 

gutter_trash

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
17,124
Montreal
I think the reality is that the Canadian default is mostly right of center, particularly after various socioeconomic discourses of the 80s defined everyday life for a generation. Austerity and privatization isn't something "new" or some kind of surprise. It's actually what people want.

And that's before we get into regressive social politics like "ban the burqa" and all that stuff.
Burqas are regressive themselves

There's nothing progressive about restrictive gendered full body cover up clothing
 

killerrin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,237
Toronto
Burqas are regressive themselves

There's nothing progressive about restrictive gendered full body cover up clothing

No, there isn't anything progressive about the Burqa. But there isn't anything progressive about telling people what they should wear either. And in a free country like Canada where the default is you are free to be yourself and where the default religion isn't requiring the article of clothing, it is more regressive to ban it than to let people wear what they want.
 

gutter_trash

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
17,124
Montreal
No, there isn't anything progressive about the Burqa. But there isn't anything progressive about telling people what they should wear either. And in a free country like Canada where the default is you are free to be yourself and where the default religion isn't requiring the article of clothing, it is more regressive to ban it than to let people wear what they want.
I doubt that they all chose to wear what they want but that's another debate.

There is nothing progressive about conservative religions,

Liberalism should defend the rights of minorities, women, LGBTQ and the defranchised.
But IMO the bucks stops when it comes to Anti-Liberal Religious customs and beliefs.
 

bremon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,852
Which riding are you in? They ran a candidate in my riding in Edmonton...
Edmonton-Wetaskiwin. Turns out there was a Green last time around. Almost 1500 votes. CPC dominates with 2/3 though.

If we are going this route. Let's also not pretend that social NDP policy isnt backed up by decades upon decades of verifiable scientific research. Quite frankly they have solutions that if implemented would immediately solve several issues facing society at large at the expense of a one-time tax increase.

But when the Conservative policy is slash and burn the entire concept of Government to the ground, and the NDP policy is to improve services wholesale with increased government. The Liberals being the centralist that they are are going to pick the position of doing nothing unless they are at risk of losing an election.
I'm not arguing with it. I believe wholeheartedly that it would be an improvement. The problem is I'm one vote, and only convinced 3 other people to vote for them last time around. The NDP didn't exactly have people riled up and excited.

I think the reality is that the Canadian default is mostly right of center, particularly after various socioeconomic discourses of the 80s defined everyday life for a generation. Austerity and privatization isn't something "new" or some kind of surprise. It's actually what people want.

And that's before we get into regressive social politics like "ban the burqa" and all that stuff.
My family has always leaned left, liberal Or NDP depending on what branch you're following but even as a kid I can remember my grandparents and relatives talking about interest rates, federal debt, etc. etc. So it isn't hard for me to believe that you're correct. Canada loves the veneer of progressivism without much of the responsibility that comes with it. That's why the Liberals do so well. Big fancy socialist talk with small C conservatism backing it up.

Burqas are regressive themselves

There's nothing progressive about restrictive gendered full body cover up clothing
So don't wear one.

But IMO the bucks stops when it comes to Anti-Liberal Religious customs and beliefs.
hmm. Maybe let's just get back to shit talking JWR.
 

Vamphuntr

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,301
No, there isn't anything progressive about the Burqa. But there isn't anything progressive about telling people what they should wear either. And in a free country like Canada where the default is you are free to be yourself and where the default religion isn't requiring the article of clothing, it is more regressive to ban it than to let people wear what they want.

I feel this is more an issue about how the Constitution and the Charter of Rights came to be and it's also affecting the rest of the world similarly. Hard to guess back then that making religion a right on the same level as freedom of speech, right of expression, the right to live and the right to security could be backward because religious fringe movements would come back in the future and that massive migrations would spread these around the world.

It's also funny because it opposed two form of conservatism. One is to protect your way of living and uphold your nation's values and traditions and the other is basically honoring your religious tenets which are usually tied to your country of origin and its traditions too.

It's pretty interesting discussion to be had for sure about what do religious symbols mean and express and I'm pretty sure they are not all definitely on the same level. It's also interesting how upholding some religious rights definitely goes against other rights. Pretty funny that in some majors cities you cannot wear a mask during a demonstration but still wear a full face covering religious symbol or how you cannot wear a political symbol while working for the government but yet you can wear a religious symbol but that symbol can definitely be political. Definitely not convinced a children being forced to wear one is fully compatible with freedom of expression either. In 2016 when Trudeau visited a Mosque in Ottawa with 3 ministers (women) he basically used the front door and discussed issues on the main floor with the male members while his ministers had to wear a headscarf, use a side entrance and watch from the second floor. That's pretty much against the principle of equality between gender. It's the contradiction of Canadian politics.

It's kind of useless to have public debates about this because it only attracts people with sides already taken or the racist lunatics and it usually lead to minority being ostracized more.

We definitely should though as It's increasingly an issue with immigration around the world right now, especially Europe and it definitely was component of Brexit too.
 

Kernel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,859
But hey, compromise is good

Well in theory all the parties would do what's in the best interest for everyone on issues like climate change etc. Instead it's all about opposing the party in power.

And conservatives wouldn't let religious bigots push anti-abortion laws.

Not sure if centrism counts as compromise as centrist policies are so watered down that nothing really changed or improves.

But people push for centrism because they don't want things to change.

I think the reality is that the Canadian default is mostly right of center, particularly after various socioeconomic discourses of the 80s defined everyday life for a generation. Austerity and privatization isn't something "new" or some kind of surprise. It's actually what people want

Some days I wonder whether left or right is really meaningful anymore.

It's just crab mentality, people think they're being taxed to support a big wasteful government and freeloaders. Look at Ford in Ontario, his ratings are tanking because his cuts are affecting more and more people.

Everyone thinks they can have lower taxes,.lower deficits and only other people will get screwed over but not them. You will get ahead and have a nice house in Oakville if only your taxes stop going to refugees and freeloaders.

In the US, I think like 60-70% of Republicans support taxing the rich more. But they will never vote Democrats due to tribalism, racism, abortion or other single issues.

I think they're pretty supportive of other progressive policy down there, if only non-white people and immigrants would be exempt.
 

killerrin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,237
Toronto
I feel this is more an issue about how the Constitution and the Charter of Rights came to be and it's also affecting the rest of the world similarly. Hard to guess back then that making religion a right on the same level as freedom of speech, right of expression, the right to live and the right to security could be backward because religious fringe movements would come back in the future and that massive migrations would spread these around the world.
It's hard to guess, but at the same time the policy has a purpose. It was the popular policy being thrown around several centuries ago. And after World War 2, it took on a whole new meaning of needing to protect religious people from persecution so that we wouldn't repeat the horrors we saw at the turn of the last century. There was no way in hell that it would have been skipped when Canada finally got around to creating and defining its own Constitution.
 

gutter_trash

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
17,124
Montreal
Maxime Bernier skating terribly since his abortion fumble.

Francophone media is grilling Bernier hard.

He thought he would be so smart o bait Scheer but ended up stepping in his own pot-hole
 

firehawk12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,161
The religion thing is only one example, considering the rise of white supremacy as well and the fact that Faith Goldy/Rebel Media are around, let alone the Jordan Petersons that we choose to tolerate and treat as serious voices in our country.

My family has always leaned left, liberal Or NDP depending on what branch you're following but even as a kid I can remember my grandparents and relatives talking about interest rates, federal debt, etc. etc. So it isn't hard for me to believe that you're correct. Canada loves the veneer of progressivism without much of the responsibility that comes with it. That's why the Liberals do so well. Big fancy socialist talk with small C conservatism backing it up.
Some days I wonder whether left or right is really meaningful anymore.

It's just crab mentality, people think they're being taxed to support a big wasteful government and freeloaders. Look at Ford in Ontario, his ratings are tanking because his cuts are affecting more and more people.

Everyone thinks they can have lower taxes,.lower deficits and only other people will get screwed over but not them. You will get ahead and have a nice house in Oakville if only your taxes stop going to refugees and freeloaders.

In the US, I think like 60-70% of Republicans support taxing the rich more. But they will never vote Democrats due to tribalism, racism, abortion or other single issues.

I think they're pretty supportive of other progressive policy down there, if only non-white people and immigrants would be exempt.
Admittedly I have a very Ontario-specific lens, but the fact that we chose a PC government despite the fact that we knew exactly what they would do just drives home the fact that we're happy to ride the center even if its against our own best interests.
 

mintzilla

Member
Nov 6, 2017
582
Canada
what has been you guys's experience regarding the voting habits of our large Filipino community?
i know they community has a large strong catholic persona but does that translate to conservative votes?
 

Kernel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,859
Admittedly I have a very Ontario-specific lens, but the fact that we chose a PC government despite the fact that we knew exactly what they would do just drives home the fact that we're happy to ride the center even if its against our own best interests

People are stupid. Some people shouldn't be allowed to vote.

They thought he'd magically make the government more efficient, lower the deficit, lowet taxes AND no one would lose their job. Oh and he wasn't Wynne.

The right wing riles people up to get them pissed off and vote out the incumbent by exaggerated or outright lies.

Scheer is following the exact same plan. His platform will be slightly more detailed than Ford.

Everything the CPC is BS.

I mean look at this cretin:



I'm disappointed he's still around. He was my rep when I lived in Ottawa and nothing pissed me off more than seeing his face in my mailbox.
 

bremon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,852
Poilievre, Raitt and Rempel are my unholy conservative trinity. Actively evil, while rock ribbed conservatives like O'Toole seem merely stupid. Poilievre is a rat fuck to an extent that he could give Brad Marchand lessons on how to be a twisted weasel bastard.
 

HanzSnubSnub

Member
Oct 27, 2017
917
I'll never understand why the NDP spends so much time tarnishing the Liberals, when all it seems to do is sway progressive voters towards the Conservatives...
 

killerrin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,237
Toronto
Call the lIberal plan inadequate all you want but they politically have more wiggle room. Now with the federal NDP playing footsies with the Conservatives I swear to god they got Tyrion Lannister giving them policy advice.

Impossible. If the NDP was taking advice from Tyrion, he would have led them to victory ages ago.

I'll never understand why the NDP spends so much time tarnishing the Liberals, when all it seems to do is sway progressive voters towards the Conservatives...
To be fair. Progressive Voters aren't the ones voting Conservative. When the NDP attacks the Liberals they keep their own voter base voting home or Green. Though the attacks do cause the Red Tories/Blue Grits to switch sides to the Conservative.

I don't understand why the NDP even exists
Yes you do. Be honest Gutter. Lets take a step back for a second. Pure down-to-earth. Would Canada truly be better off as a Two-Party state of only the Liberals and the Conservatives? With only a Centralist and Right-wing party, can we truly say that Canada would be anywhere as progressive as we currently are?

Without a guaranteed Left-wing party. Would the Overton Window really ever move towards the left? Would the Horseshoe theory that you like to throw around really have any meaning if it is missing an entire arm?

Personally, I think one look south would give you exactly the answer to all of the above questions at how well things would turn out. Because contrary to popular belief, there isn't anything that makes Canada special when compared to the politics of the USA. In fact, we have more similarities than people like to admit. The only difference being that we made some key choices early on. Choices which can easily be rolled back at the snap of a finger.
 
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djkimothy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,456
My goodness, the Opposition *gasp* opposing? How dare they.

Opposing for the sake of opposing is a terrible strategy as it alienated your voter base as you no longer back your own message. The thought that the NDP is some bastion of progressive policy when they'd rather cooperate with the Cons is rather telling of their usefulness in Canadian political discourse.

You can still oppose yet not obstruct the very policies you would yourself pass. This scorched earth policy the NDP is adopting will set them back for at least 2 election cycles and push more orange voters to green.
 
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