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Caz

Caz

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,055
Canada
A reminder that the only reason Scheer kicked out Lynn Beyak from the senate caucus was because she refused to remove the letters from her website.

He still has Hamish Marshall managing his party's campaign.

The Scheer tolerance that the CPC has for bigotry is disgusting.

VINDICATED

I said all the doom and gloom was unnecessary when it's so early in the year.
Not saying things couldn't go awry between now or that people shouldn't have been concerned with what we've seen of the CPC but declaring 2019 a lost cause in March was not doing anyone's health (aside from ContraWars) any good.
 

Terrell

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,624
Canada
Green's are more centre than the NDP. Heck the NDP has a better climate change plan right now but the cost plus cutting fossil fuel subsidies means they'll never win.

They're kind of the centre left party now that isn't Trudeau which is their appeal.
You'll have to forgive me, what exactly makes the Greens centre-left precisely, especially compared to the NDP? There are some differing opinions on this subject.



A conservative politician direct-quoting a racist mass murderer to prove that racist mass murderers have no link to conservatives?

That's... quite the spectacular backfire, were I to believe the reasoning provided even for a second. But.... yeah....
 
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Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
Member
Oct 24, 2017
34,307
A conservative politician direct-quoting a racist mass murderer to prove that racist mass murderers have no link to conservatives?
430494164875214853.png
 

bremon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,852
Scheer idiocy. Twisted little monkey speaking out of both sides of his mouth. CPC will have multiple platforms this fall, not only language-dependent but also audience-dependent in general.
 

Chalphy

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,561
Really shows how crap the CPC field is that the leadership ended up between him and Mad Max.
 

Karateka

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,940
I wouldn't be upset with the Greens stealing liberal seats if they actually won some seats instead of just giving those seats to cons...
Those are some pathetically hilarious NDP numbers
 

Terrell

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,624
Canada
What's with the surge towards the Greens anyway?
My best guess is a unique mix of:

- NDP collapse
- voters shopping around for leftist options due to discomfort with Liberals caused by certain key moments in the government's history (and SNC-Lavalin doesn't even make the Top 3 for many of the voters in the millennial cohort)
- the emphasis on the climate crisis causing people to re-evaluate and say "maybe we should pay more attention to that hippie party that was telling us we were heading for environmental disaster for the last 2+ decades"
- an improved pool of MLA/MP candidates
- the party making positive provincial (and national) headlines like it hasn't seen in its entire history (basically, success breeds more success)

That's the best I can think of for why there's such a seemingly sudden growth in support.
 

Lexxism

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,802
Toronto
The way the Greens are rising in the poll, it's a big missed opportunity by JWR and Philpott to join them. I still can't believe they went independent. At least they didn't go to CPC.
 

Vamphuntr

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,301
The way the Greens are rising in the poll, it's a big missed opportunity by JWR and Philpott to join them. I still can't believe they went independent. At least they didn't go to CPC.
PR is different from reality though. As someone that believes the both of them over the government, I'm also someone that wouldn't take them in. Politics is a cutthroat game and if they were able to backstab once they will probably backstab again. Whether it is justified or not isn't really important.I really doubt the door was open everywhere no matter what everyone says. Going CPC would also have ruined their credibility.
 

Arctic Chris

Member
Dec 5, 2017
2,174
Ottawa Canada
The present Green Party under May is closer to the former Progressive Conservative Party than to the NDP. Elizabeth May is a former political staffer with the Mulroney Government.

That being said, I will still vote Liberal. Splitting the vote at this time only helps Scheer and the CPC.
 

Terrell

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,624
Canada
people of privilege can afford to vote for a goof party

You mean like how people bet their hopes on the 3rd-place Liberals in the last election? I mean, honestly, there were less seats needed to get the NDP over the finish line, yet people still hoped beyond hope that the Liberals would come back from 3rd place. If that wasn't a position of privilege, to gamble on that being enough for Liberals to defeat Harper from 3rd place, than ABC voters wanting to vote Green if possible isn't, either.

The present Green Party under May is closer to the former Progressive Conservative Party than to the NDP. Elizabeth May is a former political staffer with the Mulroney Government.

That being said, I will still vote Liberal. Splitting the vote at this time only helps Scheer and the CPC.
You miss a hell of a lot of context by associating her with Mulroney.
Like the fact that, after playing a major role in the creation of numerous national parks and the Montreal Protocol on combating ozone depletion, she quit her job as policy advisor to Environment Minister McMillan 2 years in, out of principle, because he granted permits to a dam in Saskatchewan without any environmental assessment.

And I'm still waiting on these receipts that show that the Greens are more to the right than the NDP.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,899
Ontario
You mean like how people bet their hopes on the 3rd-place Liberals in the last election? I mean, honestly, there were less seats needed to get the NDP over the finish line, yet people still hoped beyond hope that the Liberals would come back from 3rd place. If that wasn't a position of privilege, to gamble on that being enough for Liberals to defeat Harper from 3rd place, than ABC voters wanting to vote Green if possible isn't, either.


You miss a hell of a lot of context by associating her with Mulroney.
Like the fact that, after playing a major role in the creation of numerous national parks and the Montreal Protocol on combating ozone depletion, she quit her job as policy advisor to Environment Minister McMillan 2 years in, out of principle, because he granted permits to a dam in Saskatchewan without any environmental assessment.

And I'm still waiting on these receipts that show that the Greens are more to the right than the NDP.

On economic policy that's an absolute given. What are you on about?
The green party treats the environment like a boutique issue, where's Elizabeth May's version of the GND?
 

bremon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,852
If that piece of shit had any dignity he'd resign himself to a life of solitude in the depths of the wilderness and spare humanity the burden of his idiocy.
 

Vamphuntr

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,301
Pretty shameful way for the Ford administration to frame his gutting of public services. Balancing the budget should indeed be a priority but the main issue is the way to achieve that. He's mainly using this as an excuse to cut services to minorities and vulnerable people and often these cuts aren't the ones actually affecting significantly the bottom line of the province.
 

killerrin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,237
Toronto
That's some Orwellian BS he's spewing right now.



That is quite literally the highest form of "bending the truth" that I have ever seen in my life. You can't quote one half of Tommy Douglas and ignore the other half. The guy believed in making sure that the government had enough revenue to cover its programs. Not putting social programs on the Government Credit Card, but rather ensuring taxation was enough to cover the many things he believed Government needed to provide.

Basically the exact opposite to Ford's policies of gutting social services until they cost as much as the gutted revenue.
 

bremon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,852
Link for those of us who don't have basic access cable, or any type of television service more expensive than that?
 

Terrell

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,624
Canada
On economic policy that's an absolute given. What are you on about?
The green party treats the environment like a boutique issue, where's Elizabeth May's version of the GND?

So for most of its history, the Greens have been the one-issue party that only cares about the environment, so colour me confused at the idea that it's somehow downgraded to a boutique issue to them. Care to resolve these wildly different opinions, since I honestly can't?

If something is a given, then examples can be provided and, given the current swing in support for them, absolutely should be. For people new to the Green Party and looking at voting for them (which polls indicate there is a fair amount of them), it's an important exercise to spell out whether or not it's a party people should have legitimate reason to want to vote for. We all do that with the main 3 parties all the time in extensive detail, so maybe let's give the only party making significant polling gains more than a glib sentence that could easily be brushed off as coming from a salty supporter of another party and therefore not credible. Purely dismissing something can (and frequently does) have the opposite intended effect, as well, so the importance of spelling out their policy positions and their place in politics has a greater value.

Additionally, if your intention is to discourage people voting for the Greens in lieu of the Liberals or NDP by saying their policy has more in common with the centre-left of the Liberals or (as was oddly demonstrated here) the right-wing, spelling out the legitimate reasons why that's the case is the way to make it happen instead of vague illusions to it.

Likewise, just saying "X is Y" should rarely ever be taken at face value about something as rarely discussed (until recently) in media and political discussions as Canada's 5th-place party, especially during an election year.
 

Vamphuntr

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,301
Scheer started running an ad in QC (in French) a few days ago. It's a bit weird because his bigger "projects" like eliminating the carbon tax is useless here as we have cap and trade. So his ad is about filing a single tax form and eliminating GST on heating. That's not really what most people would call ballot issues.
 

Kernel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,859
Scheer started running an ad in QC (in French) a few days ago. It's a bit weird because his bigger "projects" like eliminating the carbon tax is useless here as we have cap and trade. So his ad is about filing a single tax form and eliminating GST on heating. That's not really what most people would call ballot issues.

Like Harper he's really the Prime Minister of Alberta.

Andy will do what's best for Canada, as long as it's the best for Alberta and CAPP.

Which is why the Greens supporting protectionism of Canadian oil is puzzling.
 

Pedrito

Member
Nov 4, 2017
2,368
Scheer started running an ad in QC (in French) a few days ago. It's a bit weird because his bigger "projects" like eliminating the carbon tax is useless here as we have cap and trade. So his ad is about filing a single tax form and eliminating GST on heating. That's not really what most people would call ballot issues.

Has someone told him most people in Quebec use electricity for heating so there's no such thing as a heating bill?
I'm surprised he's not promising to build a wall on Roxham Road. That's the way to win the heart of its potential voters.
 
Oct 31, 2017
4,333
Unknown
details_vote.jpg


Those 17% of Liberal and 13% of NDP 2015 voters who are indicating shifting to Conservative is the voter pool where the Green need to draw.
Having already gained 10% from each is a great way to enter election season.
The upcoming in-depth analysis regarding the rise of the Green should be interesting. Probably too early to get into candidates and leadership hopefuls. A lot of possibility there.
 

Karateka

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,940
too bad we didn't get electoral reform and the conservatives will probably get a majority with 30% of the vote.
 

Terrell

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,624
Canada
Like Harper he's really the Prime Minister of Alberta.

Andy will do what's best for Canada, as long as it's the best for Alberta and CAPP.

Which is why the Greens supporting protectionism of Canadian oil is puzzling.
Anything that conservative think-tanks like CD Howe and the Canada West Foundation find objectionable certainly has my immediate attention and they hate the idea.

I think May invokes it in order for the government to get the same kind of control over the oil and gas industry as the government has over the dairy business, in a way that is entirely palatable to the Canadian voter. It feels like step 1 on the way to getting Canada on the Norwegian oil and gas model, which is something we should be thankful if we could achieve, and would mandate resolving the country's oil and gas needs from within its borders and having a greater degree of control over the industry at large to achieve that. It would certainly align with the rest of her policy proposals, but just because it sounds right doesn't make it so. Here's hoping a member of the press inquires further or she expands on her proposal further on her own.
 
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