Canada PoliERA |OT| Two Years of Sunny Days? That’s Scheer Madness!

prophetvx

Member
Nov 28, 2017
947
You literally "changed" back to the conservatives. And not just any conservatives, one that flirts with the Alt-right. I say again, does Notely have a chance to win again. Ever? Does the NDP? Why do you guys always vote conservative. Don't say because Ontario or Quebec made you do it. Honest question. And when the federal government is literally buying the Alberta government breathing room, would you guys stop putting a noose around the PM? No one put a noose around your precious Harper when he was PM.

We just made memes.

Yes, she has a chance or whomever it may be. It's a bit ironic claiming Kenney flirts with the alt-right, when Ford did the exact same. It's quite amusing your disgust leveled at a province based on voting conservative, when your province and practically the entire east has conservative provincial governments.

Maybe, it's not a just a particular province that is a problem. Who exactly is putting a noose around Trudeau? Are you talking about a pub owner? Talk about hyperbole.
 

djkimothy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,183
Yes, she has a chance or whomever it may be. It's a bit ironic claiming Kenney flirts with the alt-right, when Ford did the exact same. It's quite amusing your disgust leveled at a province based on voting conservative, when your province and practically the entire east has conservative provincial governments.

Maybe, it's not a just a particular province that is a problem. Who exactly is putting a noose around Trudeau? Are you talking about a pub owner? Talk about hyperbole.
My disgust with Alberta is equally levelled to Ontario if you haven't been paying attention. But Ontario at least votes in other governments eventually. So it will all be undone in due time. I can't say the same with Alberta... that province is a lost cause. I know it would affect bremon's lively hood, but the federal government shouldn't have to buy a pipeline just to tone down Alberta's rhetoric from an 11 to a 10. But it's people like bremon that makes me still want to buy him a pint.

My point is, if the federal government is Liberal, it's mainly because of Ontario and Quebec. If it's Conservative, it's still because of Ontario and Quebec. You guys aren't pulling yer weight is what I'm saying.
 

prophetvx

Member
Nov 28, 2017
947
My disgust with Alberta is equally levelled to Ontario if you haven't been paying attention. But Ontario at least votes in other governments eventually. So it will all be undone in due time. I can't say the same with Alberta... that province is a lost cause. I know it would affect bremon's lively hood, but the federal government shouldn't have to buy a pipeline just to tone down Alberta's rhetoric from an 11 to a 10.
Again, NDP were in there the last election, you're arguing a point pretty damn poorly. Alberta's economy has cratered, obviously people are pissed off. Building a pipeline will increase sentiment, not buying it, which appeared to many to actually do nothing up until a month ago and there are still significant obstacles impacting growth even if it does get built.

People are struggling to find jobs or if they are finding them, it's on a contract basis or taking pay cuts up to 50%. People can't sell their homes or are taking huge losses on them. Of course people are complaining and it's why Kenney got elected, not because he is a good candidate but people feel like they're out of options to stay solvent. It's that fucking bad here, I know highly skilled workers who have been looking for jobs for 12 months. Yet you get morons such as yourself telling them to stop complaining when there appears to be no end in sight to zero economic growth in half a decade, wondering why the hell western alienation exists. But you know, the GDP, they must be doing well.

I didn't even grow up in Canada but I can't believe the level of stupidity that exists out there in terms what is a clear line down the middle of the country. Something needs to change or you get the rise of extremist political parties / candidates like you're seeing elsewhere in the world.
 

bremon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,145
*shrug* all I can do out here is cut through hyperbole with people I interact with, donate to political parties that represent what I think is best for the country, and save my earnings for when my current line of work is no longer viable for me and I need to change careers (which I already have some training for and a path towards). If more Albertans did the same I think we would be in a much better spot.

Most people seem to buy toys and trucks instead of saving and investing though unfortunately. If the provincial or federal governments eventually offer financial assistance for retraining that would be great but I don’t plan on needing it.
 

gutter_trash

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
12,477
Montreal
It's more Ontario that decides government

2011 (Harper Majority), it was Ontario that made that happen.

granted Ignatieff lead the Liberals to their worst defeat falling the 3rd place comboed with Jack Layton's Orange Wave in Quebec.

Ontario was the King Maker at the end of the day
 

prophetvx

Member
Nov 28, 2017
947
*shrug* all I can do out here is cut through hyperbole with people I interact with, donate to political parties that represent what I think is best for the country, and save my earnings for when my current line of work is no longer viable for me and I need to change careers (which I already have some training for and a path towards). If more Albertans did the same I think we would be in a much better spot.

Most people seem to buy toys and trucks instead of saving and investing though unfortunately. If the provincial or federal governments eventually offer financial assistance for retraining that would be great but I don’t plan on needing it.
Absolutely. The problem is every industry is suffering, it's a vicious cycle. You aren't going to suddenly get skilled industries emerging in a year or even 5 years, it takes decades for that to happen. The end result is skilled labour just cuts their losses and leaves. The NDP were definitely on the right track but it's expected in any tough financial times that a government gets booted, it's just the nature of discourse.

As for federal anger, AB and BC never have a say anyway, it's almost always decided before the votes are even counted here.
 

djkimothy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,183
Again, NDP were in there the last election, you're arguing a point pretty damn poorly. Alberta's economy has cratered, obviously people are pissed off. Building a pipeline will increase sentiment, not buying it, which appeared to many to actually do nothing up until a month ago and there are still significant obstacles impacting growth even if it does get built.

People are struggling to find jobs or if they are finding them, it's on a contract basis or taking pay cuts up to 50%. People can't sell their homes or are taking huge losses on them. Of course people are complaining and it's why Kenney got elected, not because he is a good candidate but people feel like they're out of options to stay solvent. It's that fucking bad here, I know highly skilled workers who have been looking for jobs for 12 months. Yet you get morons such as yourself telling them to stop complaining when there appears to be no end in sight to zero economic growth in half a decade, wondering why the hell western alienation exists. But you know, the GDP, they must be doing well.
Well I don't know what to say. You have all the oil, and yet on the verge of bankruptcy. Maybe Notely is to blame for that as well? Newfoundlanders managed to move to another province to work in the oil patch industry. Perhaps you guys can diversify your economy rather than the "more oil" mantra. Or maybe come to the other provinces that has much less provincial wealth than you do but still manages to have a labour shortage. Again, why should the country subsidize the O&G industry any further than it is right now. Why is your provincial budget so heavily dependant on oil revenues?

It's more Ontario that decides government

2011 (Harper Majority), it was Ontario that made that happen.

granted Ignatieff lead the Liberals to their worst defeat falling the 3rd place comboed with Jack Layton's Orange Wave in Quebec.

Ontario was the King Maker at the end of the day
True, i only include Quebec because they do swing votes and they have a lot of seats up for grabs.

*shrug* all I can do out here is cut through hyperbole with people I interact with, donate to political parties that represent what I think is best for the country, and save my earnings for when my current line of work is no longer viable for me and I need to change careers (which I already have some training for and a path towards). If more Albertans did the same I think we would be in a much better spot.

Most people seem to buy toys and trucks instead of saving and investing though unfortunately. If the provincial or federal governments eventually offer financial assistance for retraining that would be great but I don’t plan on needing it.
My old neighbour was an ex-oil patch worker/military guy. Can you guess his political leanings!?!? All I could do is smile and complain about the weather. i should have clued in when his subscription to a gun magazine was mistakenly sent to my box. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Just the way of the times.

Buying trucks is okay. As long as you know the cost of ownership extends beyond the dealership. there's nothing wrong with buying toys, but personal responsibility is still a thing.
 
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SRG01

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,274
Again, NDP were in there the last election, you're arguing a point pretty damn poorly. Alberta's economy has cratered, obviously people are pissed off. Building a pipeline will increase sentiment, not buying it, which appeared to many to actually do nothing up until a month ago and there are still significant obstacles impacting growth even if it does get built.

People are struggling to find jobs or if they are finding them, it's on a contract basis or taking pay cuts up to 50%. People can't sell their homes or are taking huge losses on them. Of course people are complaining and it's why Kenney got elected, not because he is a good candidate but people feel like they're out of options to stay solvent. It's that fucking bad here, I know highly skilled workers who have been looking for jobs for 12 months. Yet you get morons such as yourself telling them to stop complaining when there appears to be no end in sight to zero economic growth in half a decade, wondering why the hell western alienation exists. But you know, the GDP, they must be doing well.

I didn't even grow up in Canada but I can't believe the level of stupidity that exists out there in terms what is a clear line down the middle of the country. Something needs to change or you get the rise of extremist political parties / candidates like you're seeing elsewhere in the world.
A lot of this is hyperbolic, and I live in the province.

Speaking to O&G specifically, the reason why a lot of jobs in the sector are gone isn't because the companies aren't well off -- in fact, they're doing quite well. The reason is that a lot of the jobs that used to go to operators and such were automated. These jobs aren't coming back, regardless of what propaganda about TMX people have heard.

In fact, despite me personally being in favor of TMX, the pipeline expansion won't really solve Alberta's revenue problems. The real issue is that the US is drilling/fracking their own oil, which -- combined with the fact that the few heavy crude refineries are located south of the border-- is making the price differential worse. China's purchase of dilbit will only be a fraction of what Alberta needs for its economy.

Alberta needed diversification literally a decade or more ago. Kenney's non-guarantee of the $100 million AI funding for the U of A will really hurt the province, but I doubt he actually cares. Alberta really needs that funding, much like how Quebec/Montreal started giving subsidies to tech and software to turn its fortunes around.
 

prophetvx

Member
Nov 28, 2017
947
Well I don't know what to say. You have all the oil, and yet on the verge of bankruptcy. Maybe Notely is to blame for that as well? Newfoundlanders managed to move to another province to work in the oil patch industry. Perhaps you guys can diversify your economy rather than the "more oil" mantra. Or maybe come to the other provinces that has much less provincial wealth than you do but still manages to have a labour shortage. Again, why should the country subsidize the O&G industry any further than it is right now. Why is your provincial budget so heavily dependant on oil revenues?



True, i only include Quebec because they do swing votes and they have a lot of seats up for grabs.
Alberta isn't on the verge of bankruptcy and the significant issue for the industry is getting their product to market coupled with the type of oil they have. Under the NDP they did try diversifying, it doesn't happen overnight. In the meantime, you have lots of skilled workers contributing far less to government coffers, spending less on service industries and ancillary industries suffering. Calgary has an office vacancy rate of nearly 30%, it used to be 3%, that's lost taxes for the city to spend on diversifying, infrastructure and generally making it a less enticing place for emerging industries.

Why is the BC budget so dependent on forestry and tech? Why is Quebec so dependent on hydro? Why is Toronto so dependent on the finance and technology sectors? If any of these industries tanked would you suddenly be able to absorb that loss and carry on like nothing happened?
 

djkimothy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,183
A lot of this is hyperbolic, and I live in the province.

Speaking to O&G specifically, the reason why a lot of jobs in the sector are gone isn't because the companies aren't well off -- in fact, they're doing quite well. The reason is that a lot of the jobs that used to go to operators and such were automated. These jobs aren't coming back, regardless of what propaganda about TMX people have heard.

In fact, despite me personally being in favor of TMX, the pipeline expansion won't really solve Alberta's revenue problems. The real issue is that the US is drilling/fracking their own oil, which -- combined with the fact that the few heavy crude refineries are located south of the border-- is making the price differential worse. China's purchase of dilbit will only be a fraction of what Alberta needs for its economy.

Alberta needed diversification literally a decade or more ago. Kenney's non-guarantee of the $100 million AI funding for the U of A will really hurt the province, but I doubt he actually cares. Alberta really needs that funding, much like how Quebec/Montreal started giving subsidies to tech and software to turn its fortunes around.
Yah, and the federal government can't just save an entire province from it's bad decisions. It's up to the premiers to manage their economies.

Alberta isn't on the verge of bankruptcy and the significant issue for the industry is getting their product to market coupled with the type of oil they have. Under the NDP they did try diversifying, it doesn't happen overnight. In the meantime, you have lots of skilled workers contributing far less to government coffers, spending less on service industries and ancillary industries suffering. Calgary has an office vacancy rate of nearly 30%, it used to be 3%, that's lost taxes for the city to spend on diversifying, infrastructure and generally making it a less enticing place for emerging industries.

Why is the BC budget so dependent on forestry and tech? Why is Quebec so dependent on hydro? Why is Toronto so dependent on the finance and technology sectors? If any of these industries tanked would you suddenly be able to absorb that loss and carry on like nothing happened?
So for one, if it's a revenue stream into government coffers that worries you. Why don't... you know, implement a fucking sales tax like everyone else? No, you want that prestige.

okay then, well. What about the other industries you mentioned in other provinces? They are not on the cusp of decline. Hydro is renewable, the tech industry is sustainable and forrest is as well (if well managed). Petroleum is on the decline, there's so many studies that point to this. And as SRG01 pointed out, automation is largely responsible in job losses. This is literally turning into a Trump thing... Alberta is betting on the wrong horse and you want the rest of the country to bail you out while still maintaining an industry in decline? Why don't you guys invest in high tech? Or other service industries?

Again, it's not the federal government's responsibility to manage your industries. It's your provincial government. All the feds can do is legislate national policy.
 
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prophetvx

Member
Nov 28, 2017
947
A lot of this is hyperbolic, and I live in the province.

Speaking to O&G specifically, the reason why a lot of jobs in the sector are gone isn't because the companies aren't well off -- in fact, they're doing quite well. The reason is that a lot of the jobs that used to go to operators and such were automated. These jobs aren't coming back, regardless of what propaganda about TMX people have heard.

In fact, despite me personally being in favor of TMX, the pipeline expansion won't really solve Alberta's revenue problems. The real issue is that the US is drilling/fracking their own oil, which -- combined with the fact that the few heavy crude refineries are located south of the border-- is making the price differential worse. China's purchase of dilbit will only be a fraction of what Alberta needs for its economy.

Alberta needed diversification literally a decade or more ago. Kenney's non-guarantee of the $100 million AI funding for the U of A will really hurt the province, but I doubt he actually cares. Alberta really needs that funding, much like how Quebec/Montreal started giving subsidies to tech and software to turn its fortunes around.
I never said the pipeline will solve the provinces woes. I'm only arguing about sentiment. They absolutely left diversification too late, which I address in the post I made at the same time. Same with getting product to market and the type of product Alberta has.

I'm not sure what exactly was hyperbolic about my post. You have property values declining 5-7% year on year for 4 consecutive years, people losing 6 figure jobs to work for minimum wage or just above because their old jobs no longer exist and high debt to income ratios.
 

killerrin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,592
Toronto
It's more Ontario that decides government

2011 (Harper Majority), it was Ontario that made that happen.

granted Ignatieff lead the Liberals to their worst defeat falling the 3rd place comboed with Jack Layton's Orange Wave in Quebec.

Ontario was the King Maker at the end of the day
Ontario is the kingmaker, and our ability to swing is as much of a blessing as it is a curse. Other than the fact that we are the largest province, the reason we get so much government attention is because we swing. It gives the politicians reason to pamper to our needs. Honestly, if somebody did a study on the amount of government subsidies and handouts are given to each riding per capita, and cooralated it against said ridings tendency to swing; it would be extremely telling exactly why money gets spent where it does. Because getting elected is literally all that our politicians and parties care about. Full stop.

Of course. As we know. Ontarios inability to properly swing leads to some pretty disasterous policies. Ontario's inability to consider any other party but the LPC and the CPC is quite literally its downfall. We were responsible for Steven Harper. We were responsible for Rob Ford. We are responsible for Doug Ford. If/when Andrew Scheer gets elected, we'll be responsible for that too because as far as Ontario is concerned, no other party exists and we would rather trap ourselves by swapping our the LPC for the CPC or the CPC for the LPC for the rest of eternity, than we would ever consider the fact that the NDP or GPC even exist.

As long as Ontario keeps on scapegoating other parties. As long as Ontario keeps on blaming Bob Rae and forgetting about Mike Harris. As long as Ontario keeps on shoving its head in the ground pretending that everthing is all perfectly fine and that the only alternative to the LPC is the CPC. This province will continue to keep its curse rolling and tormenting the rest of the country (and itself) with regressive conservative governance whose only purpose is to stall progress and make things actively and passively worse.
 

SRG01

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,274
I never said the pipeline will solve the provinces woes. I'm only arguing about sentiment. They absolutely left diversification too late, which I address in the post I made at the same time. Same with getting product to market and the type of product Alberta has.

I'm not sure what exactly was hyperbolic about my post. You have property values declining 5-7% year on year for 4 consecutive years, people losing 6 figure jobs to work for minimum wage or just above because their old jobs no longer exist and high debt to income ratios.
That's completely fair. The sentiment on the ground isn't really rooted in reality though -- it's similar to the rust belt or coal states in the US.

The property values thing though -- the market was super inflated for years so it's not really surprising that it's regressing back to the norm. Alberta has always had hyper-inflated salaries compared to the national average, especially at the trades level (and to some degree even in some professional degrees). Other industries, however, have remained quite steady since the oil bust.

edit: Real Estate is another topic we can talk about another day, because there are a lot of systemic issues in both Edmonton and Calgary that happen to include the overall O&G sector too.
 

prophetvx

Member
Nov 28, 2017
947
So for one, if it's a revenue stream into government coffers that worries you. Why don't... you know, implement a fucking sales tax like everyone else? No, you want that prestige.

okay then, well. What about the other industries you mentioned in other provinces? They are not on the cusp of decline. Hydro is renewable, the tech industry is sustainable and forrest is as well (if well managed). Petroleum is on the decline, there's so many studies that point to this. And as SRG01 pointed out, automation is largely responsible in job losses. This is literally turning into a Trump thing... Alberta is betting on the wrong horse and you want the rest of the country to bail you out while still maintaining an industry in decline? Why don't you guys invest in high tech? Or other service industries?
Alberta increased income taxes 3 years ago, which I'm much more a fan of than a regressive sales tax which punishes the poor. O&G performance is pretty damn good worldwide currently and I simply provided those industries as an example of a "diversified economy" is largely non-existent on a per province basis. Now you can argue the merits of O&G but I have no personal investment in it, so you're barking up the wrong tree on that.

Who exactly is asking the country to bail them out? What have those requests been? Rightly or wrongly, the only request has been that policies not be put in place that hinder getting product to market.
 

djkimothy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,183
When things are going well, people congratulate the Premier.

When things are bad it's the Feds fault.
Yyyyup.

Although, it helps if there is political alignment with respect to the government so they can pat each other on the back and such.

Alberta increased income taxes 3 years ago, which I'm much more a fan of than a regressive sales tax which punishes the poor. O&G performance is pretty damn good worldwide currently and I simply provided those industries as an example of a "diversified economy" is largely non-existent on a per province basis. Now you can argue the merits of O&G but I have no personal investment in it, so you're barking up the wrong tree on that.

Who exactly is asking the country to bail them out? What have those requests been? Rightly or wrongly, the only request has been that policies not be put in place that hinder getting product to market.
Ah, so your gripe is with BC then. Gotcha. can't pick your neighbours. I told you "western" provinces are such a nuisance. ;)
 

prophetvx

Member
Nov 28, 2017
947
Ah, so your gripe is with BC then. Gotcha. can't pick your neighbours. I told you "western" provinces are such a nuisance. ;)
My gripe isn't with any government or province. It's with poorly educated individuals who would rather resort to ad hominem attacks and generalizations.

Are you done deliberately misrepresenting what I say?
 

djkimothy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,183
My gripe isn't with any government or province. It's with poorly educated individuals who would rather resort to ad hominem attacks and generalizations.

Are you done deliberately misrepresenting what I say?
LOL... I no... I must not...

Let's see what Kenny is up to...

Ah yes. good use of monies right there.
 

prophetvx

Member
Nov 28, 2017
947
LOL... I no... I must not...

Let's see what Kenny is up to...

Ah yes. good use of monies right there.
You must have missed the post where I said I didn’t vote Kenney and I’m not conservative. I could post videos of Ford making a fool of himself as well, but alas I’m not dense enough to think that is an insult
 

bremon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,145
Absolutely. The problem is every industry is suffering, it's a vicious cycle. You aren't going to suddenly get skilled industries emerging in a year or even 5 years, it takes decades for that to happen. The end result is skilled labour just cuts their losses and leaves. The NDP were definitely on the right track but it's expected in any tough financial times that a government gets booted, it's just the nature of discourse.

As for federal anger, AB and BC never have a say anyway, it's almost always decided before the votes are even counted here.
Yep, I was in commercial and residential construction for many years. Oil tanking just devastated that as well. We had a few years to ride out commercial contracts etc. but it eventually dried up big time.

My old neighbour was an ex-oil patch worker/military guy. Can you guess his political leanings!?!? All I could do is smile and complain about the weather. i should have clued in when his subscription to a gun magazine was mistakenly sent to my box. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Just the way of the times.

Buying trucks is okay. As long as you know the cost of ownership extends beyond the dealership. there's nothing wrong with buying toys, but personal responsibility is still a thing.
Personal responsibility is all people like to talk about until they fuck themselves. 6 figure pickup trucks, boats, etc. when you’re used to clearing $3000+ a week seems manageable until you are “suddenly” out of work for extended periods of time. I’ve met plenty of people who complain about income tax as a big problem when they are broke two days before payday when really overspending is a big problem. It’s hard to feel bad for people who make big dollars when the going is good when they don’t plan for a rainy day (or a financial monsoon). No excuses.
 

djkimothy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,183
You must have missed the post where I said I didn’t vote Kenney and I’m not conservative. I could post videos of Ford making a fool of himself as well, but alas I’m not dense enough to think that is an insult
I didn't say you supported him, I'm just saying your province did. And he seems to not be working really hard on fixing that property value problem you mentioned. Just wasting more money, and then eventually blame the feds (when they're liberal) when the going gets tough. Mayyyyybe you should start booing him like we're doing in Ontario.

Yep, I was in commercial and residential construction for many years. Oil tanking just devastated that as well. We had a few years to ride out commercial contracts etc. but it eventually dried up big time.


Personal responsibility is all people like to talk about until they fuck themselves. 6 figure pickup trucks, boats, etc. when you’re used to clearing $3000+ a week seems manageable until you are “suddenly” out of work for extended periods of time. I’ve met plenty of people who complain about income tax as a big problem when they are broke two days before payday when really overspending is a big problem. It’s hard to feel bad for people who make big dollars when the going is good when they don’t plan for a rainy day (or a financial monsoon). No excuses.
Yah, it's the bootstraps thing. I know people just like that who work in the government. A dual income $200k per year situation. But then buy $600k mansions with 3 kids and other expenditures (buys everything new etc). And then we chat how they're hoping they get a promotion to make more money to pay all of that. I mean, you can't rely on the job to support you expensive lifestyle. I feel bad, but I got my own stuff to worry about. i have a rainy day fund as a backstop as I know I could lose my job at any time. But that guy is literally pay check to pay check. On government income! WTf.
 
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bremon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,145
I didn't say you supported him, I'm just saying your province did. And he seems to not be working really hard on fixing that property value problem you mentioned. Just wasting more money, and then eventually blame the feds (when they're liberal) when the going gets tough.
Property value is the main concern I have with the provincial government talking about scrapping the NDP diversification plan. I’d hate to lose my shirt on a house (though I didn’t buy until the market crashed anyway) when we want to move to a different province but everyone else feels the same way lol.
 

gutter_trash

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
12,477
Montreal
The Federal Government should do nothing for Alberta.

Trudeau gave them TMX but they keep bitching

Well fuck Alberta, Trudeau should completely ignore the Province for the next 4 years
 

djkimothy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,183
Property value is the main concern I have with the provincial government talking about scrapping the NDP diversification plan. I’d hate to lose my shirt on a house (though I didn’t buy until the market crashed anyway) when we want to move to a different province but everyone else feels the same way lol.
Hopefully it doesn't come to that. it might be a rough ride for a little while but eventually hit should normalize itself. Unless your housing market was inflated beyond comprehension. I remembered visiting my ex in Fort Mac way back in 2007 and housing there was just stupid for a town in the middle of no where. No wonder they can't sell...

The Federal Government should do nothing for Alberta.

Trudeau gave them TMX but they keep bitching

Well fuck Alberta, Trudeau should completely ignore the Province for the next 4 years
Well, they spent half their time tending to the needs for alberta this term and they keep threatening secession. So, if they ignore them maybe a full on civil war?

Remember, if you guys leave we get to keep Banff and Lake Louise! Crown land. :P
 

prophetvx

Member
Nov 28, 2017
947
I didn't say you supported him, I'm just saying your province did. And he seems to not be working really hard on fixing that property value problem you mentioned. Just wasting more money, and then eventually blame the feds (when they're liberal) when the going gets tough. Mayyyyybe you should start booing him like we're doing in Ontario.
I'll keep that in mind for when he has been in office for longer than ~50 days. For now, I'll just hold out hope that we can ever be as good as the province that elected someone on the promise of buck-a-beer.

The housing issue is a combination of a number of factors, obviously recession, low economic confidence, inflated markets and changing the qualification rules to target the Toronto and Vancouver markets specifically. If you have any genius ideas to stabilize and correct losses, I'm sure many people would listen. Until then, I don't really see how the article you posted has any relevance, even if it is ridiculously stupid on its own.
 

prophetvx

Member
Nov 28, 2017
947
Yep, I was in commercial and residential construction for many years. Oil tanking just devastated that as well. We had a few years to ride out commercial contracts etc. but it eventually dried up big time.
Yeah, my wife worked in the residential construction industry, they went to 15% of the previous years sales between the 2017 and 2018 calendar years. It was insane. I don't know how any smaller, bespoke builders have survived the downturn.

Needless to say she's gone back to school to move into an industry that doesn't rely on economic stability and consumer sentiment.
 

Kernel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,573
Yeah, my wife worked in the residential construction industry, they went to 15% of the previous years sales between the 2017 and 2018 calendar years. It was insane. I don't know how any smaller, bespoke builders have survived the downturn.

Needless to say she's gone back to school to move into an industry that doesn't rely on economic stability and consumer sentiment.
Ouch that's tough. Sorry to hear that:(

I was thinking of moving out to Calgary but it might be a good idea from what I'm reading.
 

djkimothy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,183
I'll keep that in mind for when he has been in office for longer than ~50 days. For now, I'll just hold out hope that we can ever be as good as the province that elected someone on the promise of buck-a-beer.

The housing issue is a combination of a number of factors, obviously recession, low economic confidence, inflated markets and changing the qualification rules to target the Toronto and Vancouver markets specifically. If you have any genius ideas to stabilize and correct losses, I'm sure many people would listen. Until then, I don't really see how the article you posted has any relevance, even if it is ridiculously stupid on its own.
It's difficult to fix people buying over priced houses in economies propped up on a volatile commodity. So you're gonna have to elect governments that actually give a damn rather than concerning yourself from the musing of some random guy in Ontario. Alberta is not the only province going through economic adjustments. Manufacturing jobs have been bleeding out in Ontario and Quebec. But yah don't see us whining to Alberta for all those oil subsidies or this make believe transfer payments...
 

prophetvx

Member
Nov 28, 2017
947
It's difficult to fix people buying over priced houses in economies propped up on a volatile commodity. So you're gonna have to elect governments that actually give a damn rather than concerning yourself from the musing of some random guy in Ontario. Alberta is not the only province going through economic adjustments. Manufacturing jobs have been bleeding out in Ontario and Quebec. But yah don't see us whining to Alberta for all those oil subsidies...
I'll make sure to move to the housing markets that are propped up by stable industries in cities such as Vancouver or Toronto... Oh wait.
 

prophetvx

Member
Nov 28, 2017
947
Ouch that's tough. Sorry to hear that:(

I was thinking of moving out to Calgary but it might be a good idea from what I'm reading.
It's all good, it wasn't her long-term career. It would be nice to not have to pay another $40-50k on top of an existing degree to further her education to make $70k/year though.

Don't let my musings discourage you from moving to Calgary, having those mountains in the backyard make it all worthwhile. Just don't buy out here and make sure you have a job lined up. It can be tough finding a start currently but the rental market is super competitive so there is good deals out there.
 

djkimothy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,183
I'll make sure to move to the housing markets that are propped up by stable industries in cities such as Vancouver or Toronto... Oh wait.
Again, i can't fix people's stupid decisions. Why are you intentionally picking the wrong horse when other parts of the country are just fine. This is what's wrong with the country. Move to a city that has a functioning economy, Ottawa is stable. Come here and see what a well managed city is like. Housing is not that expensive here and land values are stable.
 

prophetvx

Member
Nov 28, 2017
947
Again, i can't fix people's stupid decisions. Why are you intentionally picking the wrong horse when other parts of the country are just fine. This is what's wrong with the country. Move to a city that has a functioning economy, Ottawa is stable. Come here and see what a well managed city is like.
I work remotely for a US based company. I can choose wherever the hell I want to live but I'll make sure to leave my wife's family and pull my son out of school to move somewhere that doesn't interest me in the slightest.
 

prophetvx

Member
Nov 28, 2017
947
Well that's your choice then.
Just like it was my choice to immigrate to Canada so I can enjoy the rocky mountains. Last time I checked, Ottawa doesn't have that.

I don't even like living in a city, I moved from a large enough one in Sydney, Australia. I don't live within Calgary city limits either. With that said, I'll keep in mind the relative differences in cost of housing that is separated by a mere $20k between Ottawa and Calgary median house prices.
 

djkimothy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,183
Just like it was my choice to immigrate to Canada so I can enjoy the rocky mountains. Last time I checked, Ottawa doesn't have that.

I don't even like living in a city, I moved from a large enough one in Sydney, Australia. I don't live within Calgary city limits either. With that said, I'll keep in mind the relative differences in cost of housing that is separated by a mere $20k between Ottawa and Calgary median house prices.
We have the gatineau hills, access to Toronto, Montreal, better weather, cheaper cost of living, a thriving economy. I mean objectively, were are a lot better off than most of the country. We have a government sector as well as a high tech sector for employment. Amazon just opened up a fullfilment warehouse here (i can hear you guys stampeding about the peeing in a bottle). We're close to the US for travel and work.

I don't live in the Ottawa city limits either. I'm out with the farmers. You can move further out if you like in the satellite towns.

The only complaints is the traffic and yet it's still better than TO and Montreal.

You immigrated from Sydney? Nice. I'm a refugee from Vietnam, my mother was single and raised me off a hair dressers salary if you can call it that. We chose to stay here cause it was it was inviting and now the province has shown that it's got lots to offer here. We lived in subsidized housing most of our lives. Then I got an education here, debt free with a Masters, honestly can't think of a better place than anywhere here in Ottawa, or Ontario for that matter. This city has never let me down. Until the NCC rears its head.
 

Terrell

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,880
Canada
In other news: Huawei has been running ads on Canadian television promoting their brand for 5G network infrastructure...? They have to know how terribly shameless and transparent that is, right? It reminds me of Boeing trying to lift its brand image with equally shameless ad buys after trying to screw over Bombardier. And it’s such a waste of money, just like Boeing’s attempt was.

Alberta is my main gripe, but yah I'll lump SK into them as well as I'm not convinced they're not any different than AB. But when I refer to the west it's alberta. No one thinks "well BC is west so we must be referring to them as well." AB IS the west. SK just wants to become them.
You say that “the west” means Alberta when you say it, but you keep saying that seemingly only when it’s convenient to dodge criticism, then go back to lumping SK into your definition at every other opportunity. You’ve not been terribly consistent on this, so you’ll forgive me if I’m not exactly taking you at your word.

SK wants to be Alberta? Maybe over the past 10 years or so under the Wall/Moe government, but historically, it’s been very much an arms-length relationship between the two, with industry more focused in agriculture, potash and uranium, with potash especially being our cash-cow industry and mineral mining more generally, since no one can compete with SK in potash (#1 exporter in the world) and we have a solid grip on North American uranium. Not to say that there hasn’t been oil and gas since the 60s, but it’s really only when the PCs or Sask Party are in power that there’s a major surge there and it’s not actually something we export all that much of compared to Alberta; one of the biggest O&G producers here, Federated Co-operatives, refines and sells within the province. O&G exports from SK are less than 10% of all of Canada’s exported O&G, usually hovering around 5-6%, with the massive majority of it being exported to Minnesota and the northeastern US. The Sask Party being pro-pipeline is them wanting to horn in on Alberta’s export opportunities, despite not having the capacity to really matter much in the grand scheme.
Our opinions on Albertans here in SK haven’t been much different than they were anywhere else in the country for years. And signs indicate a return to that arms-length relationship, thanks to contention arising from broken promises of the merger of PotashCorp and Agrium into Nutrien, among other reasons, like how frequently Alberta decided it had a bone to pick with Wall.
It’s important not to mistake one political party’s industrial ambitions with that the province or its people. Because that’s a dangerous precedent to set.

And actually, BC is frequently included in “the west”, but typically with an acknowledgement that the urban coastal region and the island operate in their own political sphere. Rural and suburban mainland BC voters tend to follow similar voting patterns and vote more right of center as other regions of the western Canadian provinces would.

Never mind that Manitoba is entirely missing from the discussion in how they factor into “Western Canada”.

Lastly, there’s a reason Wall resigned and it’s because he and his party knew that his reckless spending leading to austerity budgets would kill them if he was still the face of the party. And even with the resignation damage control, the Sask Party is bleeding all of its urban support, with every urban by-election going NDP since the last election. It’ll just take a very small number of rural ridings to topple them, at this point. And Moe, even more than Wall before him, pinned his entire political future on a high-stakes staring contest with the feds and hoping they get the feds to blink first. When he and Ford both get put in their place for wasting the courts’ time and their respective taxpayers’ money on this fool’s errand, Moe’s popularity and the popularity of his party will likely sink enough for the NDP to have a real chance to pick up the few rural seats they need to win the next election. But you’ve already proven a few times that you won’t let facts get in the way of your personal narrative, so I suppose I just wasted my time explaining all of that. Hopefully someone got something out of it.

It is a measure of wealth of a given jurisdiction. It's not my problem if your subnational government does not spend that wealth wisely when your premiers are acting all "resistant" to a federal government that just happens to be liberal. Have fun with your prosperity cheques.
Wealth is not 100% in the control of the province and absolutely does not indicate the wealth of a provincial government. There are several factors that make GDP a highly misleading statistic and politicians are disinterested in moving away from it because it is great obfuscation when accused of hurting the population with their policies or when government coffers aren’t so hot. “But the economy is good... never mind that GDP doesn’t specify who it’s good FOR, the economy is good!”

And quit sniping at people just because you’re mad you got called out on a bad take, dude. I didn’t want what we got from the last provincial election and I’d appreciate that you stop talking like I did, much like I don’t hold you to account for the most incompetent conservative premier since Ralph Klein, Mike Harris or Grant Devine.

And since you seem exceptionally keen on throwing shade at people for where they live for some unfathomable reason, I ended up back in Saskatchewan because Vancouver was so expensive that I blew through my savings when I lost my job once and then got laid off a year later from another job while I was building my savings back up from nothing. So after 10 years in BC, I returned to my family home to help my aging parents and have them help me in return, while benefiting from rock-bottom cost of living that nowhere other than the Maritimes can adequately match.

But yeah, I totally “chose” all of that.

I’d recommend that this line of dialogue you’re choosing isn’t worth continuing, if only due to how exceptionally insulting and divisive it is for no discernibly good reason.
 

djkimothy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,183
Having an elected politician accost a private citizen is tight!


No heroes in this story but Macleod can’t get out of the news.
 

Fuzzy

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,193
Toronto, Canada
Y'all are crazy. Her saying "you’re a fucking piece of shit and you’re a fuckinging loser” to Eugene Melnyk probably made her more popular.
 

djkimothy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,183
Y'all are crazy. Her saying "you’re a fucking piece of shit and you’re a fuckinging loser” to Eugene Melnyk probably made her more popular.
it’s complex. We in Ottawa hate them both. But for an elected MP it’s not a good look considering her behaviour towards parents of autistic children.

At the same time fuck Melnyk.
 

prophetvx

Member
Nov 28, 2017
947
We have the gatineau hills, access to Toronto, Montreal, better weather, cheaper cost of living, a thriving economy. I mean objectively, were are a lot better off than most of the country. We have a government sector as well as a high tech sector for employment. Amazon just opened up a fullfilment warehouse here (i can hear you guys stampeding about the peeing in a bottle). We're close to the US for travel and work.

I don't live in the Ottawa city limits either. I'm out with the farmers. You can move further out if you like in the satellite towns.

The only complaints is the traffic and yet it's still better than TO and Montreal.
I don't know why you're trying to sell me on Ottawa, I've traveled there plenty of times, it's not for me. I'd gladly never go back to Toronto or Ottawa, I do enjoy Montreal though.

I'm just not in the game of generalizing people. I'm sure you'd find equally dislikable people by your own measure in rural Ontario, Quebec or Manitoba like you would find in rural Alberta. Alberta has the third highest international immigration rate behind Ontario and BC, the demographics of this province are steadily changing, so labeling them backwards rednecks is misguided. I know in the over 10 years that I've lived here, it has drastically changed. There are plenty of other industries here other than O&G, the problem is in any recession, regardless of what industry is most heavily impacted, there is a flow-on effect across all industries.

You immigrated from Sydney? Nice. I'm a refugee from Vietnam, my mother was single and raised me off a hair dressers salary if you can call it that. We chose to stay here cause it was it was inviting and now the province has shown that it's got lots to offer here. We lived in subsidized housing most of our lives. Then I got an education here, debt free with a Masters, honestly can't think of a better place than anywhere here in Ottawa, or Ontario for that matter. This city has never let me down. Until the NCC rears its head.
Everywhere in Canada is inviting, it's the great thing about this country. I came here for a snowboarding gap year after finishing university and have lived here pretty much ever since.
 

djkimothy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,183
Wonder how his liver donor feels.
Are they in the region? He lost any goodwill long ago. ANd now that the Lebreton Flats project fell through we hate him more. Still, he owns the senators so he has us by the balls.

The thought that the sens staying in Kanata forever is so dumb. It’s a sordid affair. Gave me a laugh though when Lisa bulldozed her way just to verbally assault him days after she was called a c***.