Canada PoliERA |OT| Two Years of Sunny Days? That’s Scheer Madness!

djkimothy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,279
I can't wait to ride from Google's Union Station to Coca Cola Rutherford GO Station.




Or use washroom powered by Amazon Web Services.
Hahah, it's so conservative.

Should I feel sorry for Toronto/GTA? I still blame them for unleashing Ford on us.

Just noticed your edit; Queens park selling user data is a red flag. I feel like that could be challenged.
 

Kernel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,058

They've cut out the middle man:

Three of Canada's biggest oilsands producers are going directly to voters to ask them to "influence the outcome" of big decisions concerning the oil and gas sector as a fall federal election looms.

In full-page ads in about 30 English and French daily newspapers across Canada on Thursday, the CEOs of Canadian Natural Resources Ltd., Cenovus Energy Inc. and MEG Energy Corp. ask readers to call on "leaders of all political stripes" to lend their support to the energy industry
Yo voters, help us make more money and destroy the planet faster.
 

Shifty

Member
Oct 28, 2017
60

lmao 'place that never melts'. Are there even gonna be any animals left to protect in this refuge after climate change has run its course? What a fucking joke.

Real action to protect the arctic would involve a massive program to cut CO2 emissions, not oil sands expansion and a promise not to raise the carbon tax.
Gotta love this meaningless PR as the liberals do less than the barest of minimums needed to combat the biggest issue of our lifetime.
 

Becks'

Member
Dec 7, 2017
5,175
Canada
Honestly, NDP has no chances in East. It is Liberals and Conservatives just switching because one of them becomes boring to people after 4 years.
 

SRG01

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,354
Thanks for the Vancouver suggestion guys. Unfortunately I'll only be there on the weekdays so no night market for me :(

And on topic: WOW at that NDP drop. Are we going to see a Liberal sweep of the province?
 

Tiktaalik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,045
Re: that Quebec poll:

Looking forward to an election season where Quebec talking heads make ever more elaborate and contrived explanations for why Singh 'isn't connecting' with Quebecers, and any suggestion of racism is met with faux outrage as 'Quebec Bashing.'

(yes I accidentally posted this in canada deals era lmao)
 

SixPointEight

Member
Oct 28, 2017
711
Re: that Quebec poll:

Looking forward to an election season where Quebec talking heads make ever more elaborate and contrived explanations for why Singh 'isn't connecting' with Quebecers, and any suggestion of racism is met with faux outrage as 'Quebec Bashing.'

(yes I accidentally posted this in canada deals era lmao)
I mean. It kinda is because they won’t talk about other province’s racism.
 

SixPointEight

Member
Oct 28, 2017
711
I’m not trying to say we shouldn’t call them out for their racism, but doing so without any media coverage of our own racism, and and us vs them attitude reeks of bashing. That’s all.
 

Tiktaalik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,045
Canada is a racist country and racism exists in every province. The issue though is how this racism is impacting the election.

In this particular election there's a situation where the most progressive province has suddenly and dramatically veered away from supporting the most progressive party that it had supported in the past for ~Reasons~. It's well worth exploring in depth why this has happened, but I'm not holding my breath that this will occur given the sort of light touch that CBC and other Canadian media has used so far.
 

Cilidra

Member
Oct 25, 2017
599
Ottawa
Re: that Quebec poll:

Looking forward to an election season where Quebec talking heads make ever more elaborate and contrived explanations for why Singh 'isn't connecting' with Quebecers, and any suggestion of racism is met with faux outrage as 'Quebec Bashing.'

(yes I accidentally posted this in canada deals era lmao)
Reposting my take on it from the gaming post...
Though NPD has been dropping in Quebec even before Singh. NPD vote was more Layton and protest vote (kinda like Block is). So Block and Green are more competitor to NPD than Liberals or Conservative. For example, the place I grew up in is almost always PQ at provincial but went from Block to NPD and I expect it will be Block again.
 

Pedrito

Member
Nov 4, 2017
1,072
There are very few Sikhks in Québec and the only time they're in the news here, it's because they want a reasonable accommodation, something the pures laines can't get over even though it doesn't affect their life in any way. Also, you have a good third of the population who probably thinks he's an Islamic fundamentalist because he's brown and has a beard. And then, the NDP doesn't really have a base in Québec to begin with. Finally, it's not like Singh is resonating anywhere anyway.

So yeah it's a combination of ignorance, racism, rabid disdain for religions (other than christianity), lack of popularity of NDP in the province and Singh being a weak party leader. You don't really need an in-depth analysis to figure that out.
 

Tiktaalik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,045
Aside from underlying racism I also blame the Quebec NDP MPs. If there's 'no NDP base in Quebec' um that's because they've failed to sow those grass roots. The NDP have had a foothold since 2011.
 

firehawk12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,912
Aside from underlying racism I also blame the Quebec NDP MPs. If there's 'no NDP base in Quebec' um that's because they've failed to sow those grass roots. The NDP have had a foothold since 2011.
The "problem" is that all the socialists are also sovereigntists and when Mulcair tried to ride that line of running a separate campaign for Quebec, it just didn't pay off.
 

Terrell

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,948
Canada
I read about this yesterday, Bernier doing a whirlwind tour of one of his strongest bases of support.
And it’s pretty clear than the rural sections of this province are fertile ground for Bernier. Case in point:


Some days, I legit can’t wait until the mostly-Boomer population in these backwater areas dies off and lose all their power to drive us off a right-leaning cliff. Maybe the province won’t be such an embarrassment then.
 

StevieP

Member
Oct 27, 2017
574
I read about this yesterday, Bernier doing a whirlwind tour of one of his strongest bases of support.
And it’s pretty clear than the rural sections of this province are fertile ground for Bernier. Case in point:


Some days, I legit can’t wait until the mostly-Boomer population in these backwater areas dies off and lose all their power to drive us off a right-leaning cliff. Maybe the province won’t be such an embarrassment then.
Sorry but they're teaching their kids as well
 

Tiktaalik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,045
The biggest mistake the party made is that once they decided to abandon Mulcair, they kept him on as interim leader. I read somewhere that as one would expect, Mulcair totally mentally checked out and the entire organizing and fundraising aparatus that Layton built rusted. It probably still needs to be rebuilt.
 

djkimothy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,279
The problem with the NDP right now is that they have no broad/brand appeal outside of high schoolers and possibly union/manufacturing sectors (which is a shrinking group BTW).

They spend most of their time criticizing people who are already aligned with them policy wise instead of persuading the swing voters of why they should be given a chance (they have nearly no presence in suburban Ottawa, and I'm guess that holds true elsewhere in the country). Popping your head up occasionally reminding people that there's a "third choice in Canada" misses the point. You can only use that if you have broad appeal. The NDP at the moment has an image problem, and they're doing nothing to fix it.

The LEAP manifesto that appeared four years ago just gives the impression that Greenpeace is steering the ship. I see people often invoking the Bernie Sanders or AOC card here and twitter. Wrong strategy. The VAST majority (hint: the bulk of the voters) are moderates, and part of any discussion will have to appeal with their ability to make their households run. Not proclaiming that all petrol should be canceled by tomorrow. Belly aching over electoral reform is not doing the party any favours because (1) most canadians don't care (2) when the NDP is in power they did nothing about it. So how can anyone who follows politics take them seriously. Which ties into another point, their policy positions SEEM so off the cuff, because of the federal party's stance on oil and pipelines, they left Notley to the wolves. The inflexibility of the party and supporters is one of THE most detrimental aspect of the party.

In terms of political outcomes: Notley won because of a divided right but then subsequently lost against a united front, Horgan LOST the election but is holding on because the Greens, Horwath is as inspiring as a broken lightbulb. You can't just point to Layton all the time lamenting over the good old days when there are real problems right now.

They don't need to shout out BOLD ideas, they need to rethink who they are as a political party.
 

Shifty

Member
Oct 28, 2017
60
The problem with the NDP right now is that they have no broad/brand appeal outside of high schoolers and possibly union/manufacturing sectors (which is a shrinking group BTW).

They spend most of their time criticizing people who are already aligned with them policy wise instead of persuading the swing voters of why they should be given a chance (they have nearly no presence in suburban Ottawa, and I'm guess that holds true elsewhere in the country). Popping your head up occasionally reminding people that there's a "third choice in Canada" misses the point. You can only use that if you have broad appeal. The NDP at the moment has an image problem, and they're doing nothing to fix it.

The LEAP manifesto that appeared four years ago just gives the impression that Greenpeace is steering the ship. I see people often invoking the Bernie Sanders or AOC card here and twitter. Wrong strategy. The VAST majority (hint: the bulk of the voters) are moderates, and part of any discussion will have to appeal with their ability to make their households run. Not proclaiming that all petrol should be canceled by tomorrow. Belly aching over electoral reform is not doing the party any favours because (1) most canadians don't care (2) when the NDP is in power they did nothing about it. So how can anyone who follows politics take them seriously. Which ties into another point, their policy positions SEEM so off the cuff, because of the federal party's stance on oil and pipelines, they left Notley to the wolves. The inflexibility of the party and supporters is one of THE most detrimental aspect of the party.

In terms of political outcomes: Notley won because of a divided right but then subsequently lost against a united front, Horgan LOST the election but is holding on because the Greens, Horwath is as inspiring as a broken lightbulb. You can't just point to Layton all the time lamenting over the good old days when there are real problems right now.

They don't need to shout out BOLD ideas, they need to rethink who they are as a political party.
I agree, the current state of the NDP is trash and they need to re-think what they are as a party.

Maybe i'm misreading your post but if your take is that they need a more moderate and "balanced" approach (aka be like the Liberals) to attract voters, then that's where I disagree. Look at how well that strategy worked out for Mulcair. And hell if that strategy does work what do we get? Another slightly to the left centrist party that does next to fuck all to address the issues our society faces. Inspiring.

I also like how this just ignores the history of the NDP which as been trending towards a more moderate and professionalized party apparatus for years. I think this trend has been to its detriment. I don't give a crap about winning elections, I want a party that organizes progressives and builds grassroots support for these ideals. They should focus on reaching out to people who would benefit from more progressive policies and work to explain how it is actually in their interest to support them.

The Liberals do not lead in social change, they just follow where public opinion happens to be which thankfully is trending less conservative. They're not conservative but they are not leaders either. Marijuana, gay marriage, 50/50 gender balance in cabinet? They did these things only when most of the population already supported them, not when they were the right things to do but still faced heavier societal backlash. The NDP should be leading these types of causes and pushing the Liberals, or whoever is in charge, to do better. I want an energized and driven leftist group that calls out the hypocrisy of the two major players, not another party filled with career politicians just looking to get votes and make some money for themselves and their buddies.
 

Kernel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,058
Our society in North America will never accept anything resembling socialism. Bob Rae won an election and faced such stiff propaganda and obstruction that people preferred to vote in a drug dealer with no platform.

In the US, the most progressive socialists are getting death threats and racist billboard advertisement.

We are trending toward the US in our own way where the only two choices are a far right and a centrist quasi left party that gives you the illusion that anything will change in any meaningful way.

Capitalism, "but mah taxes" and "fuck you got mine" are too ingrained in this country that we will never significantly deviate from this.

We are better than the US but not enough to make any real change.

Not many people want equality when they're happy where they're at and they want to stay that way, while the billionaire shitlords own the media and spread bullshit.

The NDP is tanking because more people care to preserve their socioeconomic status rather than improve everyone as a whole (including themselves).

Until someone solves crab mentality we are going nowhere.
 

djkimothy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,279
I agree, the current state of the NDP is trash and they need to re-think what they are as a party.

Maybe i'm misreading your post but if your take is that they need a more moderate and "balanced" approach (aka be like the Liberals) to attract voters, then that's where I disagree. Look at how well that strategy worked out for Mulcair. And hell if that strategy does work what do we get? Another slightly to the left centrist party that does next to fuck all to address the issues our society faces. Inspiring.

I also like how this just ignores the history of the NDP which as been trending towards a more moderate and professionalized party apparatus for years. I think this trend has been to its detriment. I don't give a crap about winning elections, I want a party that organizes progressives and builds grassroots support for these ideals. They should focus on reaching out to people who would benefit from more progressive policies and work to explain how it is actually in their interest to support them.

The Liberals do not lead in social change, they just follow where public opinion happens to be which thankfully is trending less conservative. They're not conservative but they are not leaders either. Marijuana, gay marriage, 50/50 gender balance in cabinet? They did these things only when most of the population already supported them, not when they were the right things to do but still faced heavier societal backlash. The NDP should be leading these types of causes and pushing the Liberals, or whoever is in charge, to do better. I want an energized and driven leftist group that calls out the hypocrisy of the two major players, not another party filled with career politicians just looking to get votes and make some money for themselves and their buddies.
Then what you’re supporting is more of a think tank than a political party. You can’t make positive changes wagging your finger at the sidelines. Mulcair lost not because he was moderate or being safe, but he was an uninspiring politician, a remnant from the political past. An indication that the NDP hasn’t changed with the times.

You say the liberals are merely following social trends? THATS THE JOB OF POLITICIANS! Publish or perish they say in science. If you can’t adjust your game plan then get out of the way for someone who can. The NDP as i see it hasn’t changed much since i was in university. They’re for the environment and labour laws. Nothing has changed with them. They have shown no ability to even appear that they are listening to voters. That’s why they have been relegated to the protest vote. But they’re not even good enough for that, the Greens have that status now.

What the NDP needs to do, believe it or not, is to support the liberals and counter the conservatives at every opportunity. This does two things, it clearly defines them as a viable opposition to the conservatives and it allows them to play with the big boys, and it signals to current liberal voters that their vote and support would be carried on under an NDP banner.

Bill Morneau proposing hanging the tax laws? Good. Hold a joint conference pointing out that the conservatives are just in it for the rich. You don’t have, say you’re in complete agreement. But broadcast that you’re a viable opposition to the conservatives.

Instead you get an inept and vapid presence on the hill from the NDP as they don’t want to have the optics of supporting the liberals. Even though they support the policy.

The NDP has to drastically change their game plan. What why’re doing is worse than what Mulcair was doing.

Our society in North America will never accept anything resembling socialism. Bob Rae won an election and faced such stiff propaganda and obstruction that people preferred to vote in a drug dealer with no platform.

In the US, the most progressive socialists are getting death threats and racist billboard advertisement.

We are trending toward the US in our own way where the only two choices are a far right and a centrist quasi left party that gives you the illusion that anything will change in any meaningful way.

Capitalism, "but mah taxes" and "fuck you got mine" are too ingrained in this country that we will never significantly deviate from this.

We are better than the US but not enough to make any real change.

Not many people want equality when they're happy where they're at and they want to stay that way, while the billionaire shitlords own the media and spread bullshit.

The NDP is tanking because more people care to preserve their socioeconomic status rather than improve everyone as a whole (including themselves).

Until someone solves crab mentality we are going nowhere.
aye. completely agree. But the way the NDP approaches their politics turns people off. They have to figure out what that is else they’re toast.

Also, their comms strategy is the worse. Worse than the liberals and that’s saying a lot!
 

Tiktaalik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,045
The popularity of Sanders and AOC shows that there is a lot of people out there that are excited by an unapologetically progressive and socialist message.

If you poll people on policies that the NDP have proposed, you wind up with great polling for the policies, but the NDP itself doesn't poll so well.

For example:

Poll shows majority of Canadians say economy should shift from oil and gas, but most don’t know the Green New Deal

VANCOUVER—In an election race that’s put the environment front and centre, a new poll shows 62 per cent of Canadians think the economy should shift away from oil and gas.

Sixty per cent also believe “global warming is a fact and is mostly caused by emissions from vehicles and industrial facilities.”

Canadians are less familiar, however, with a non-partisan campaign that’s calling for more ambitious climate action. Thirty per cent of the 1,000 people who completed the Research Co. survey said they were either “moderately familiar” or “very familiar” with “the Pact for a Green New Deal.”
...
Over two-thirds of Canadians back a wealth tax
...
Fully three-quarters of voters who indicated they would consider supporting the Liberals or NDP in this fall’s election backed a wealth tax, as did 64 per cent of those willing to consider voting Conservative, indicating that virtually any Canadian political party that promised such a tax would be likely to pick up support as a result.
...
The problem two fold, firstly, that the NDP machine has atrophied since Mulcair lost in 2015 and the party has become increasingly terrible at getting out its message (the NDP put out its platform on Fathers Day lmao). Secondly, the entire establishment business apparatus is of course aligned against the NDP. This is why the Fed NDP can't get a mainstream press article written about them that isn't some concern trolling variation of "Why does Jagmeet Singh suck so much??"

My expectation is that the media will continue to ignore and troll Singh from now throughout the election and he will remain an unknown to Canadians until the debate, where he has an opportunity to actually speak directly to Canadians. At this point even if he performs phenomenally it's likely too late.

The BC NDP has been a phenomenal government and they remain popular after two years in government. Despite a media that constantly trolled them on the mistakes of the 90s era NDP government and a surging Green Party, they got a lucky bounce and got into power, much to the benefit of British Columbians. The Fed and BC NDP of course share the same ideology and policy platform and so the fantastic performance of the BC NDP has made me even more confident that a Fed NDP government would benefit Canada.
 

mo60

Member
Oct 25, 2017
644
Edmonton, Alberta
Even Albertans for their incredible collection of faults seem to be able to elect a brown person.
Seriously the ABNDP and UCP have been attracting minorities to join their parties for years. Federally the CPC is attractive for socially conservative minorities to join the party.

Also lisa corbella got exposed for writing Pro-UCP columns while having a UCP membership in 2017 by sean craig.

The byline in the herald about this.
 

Tiktaalik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,045
Vancouver's Mayor (ex-NDP MP) Kennedy Stewart (centre) walking with all the fed leaders at the gay pride parade in Vancouver today (except one......hmmm).

 

bremon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,178
Except two, no? Or do we not consider the alt right people party a party? They’re nearly as popular as the Nearly Dead Party.
 

TheTrinity

Member
Oct 25, 2017
264
And then you have the one Conservative who was going to be there...

The Vancouver Pride Parade was supposed to have a presence from the Conservative Party, with Vancouver-Centre candidate David Cavey announcing he would be marching.
But Cavey withdrew from the parade last week after the Vancouver Pride Society uninvited the University of British Columbia (UBC) and the Vancouver Public Library (VPL) for hosting speakers who have been criticized for spreading “hateful” and “transphobic” messages.

...

On Saturday, Cavey said barring the institutions from an event based on inclusion is hypocritical and goes against Canada’s free speech laws.
“UBC has a long history, VPL has a long history, I have a long history, we all support the LGBT community,” he said. “The Pride Society preaches inclusion, and they are excluding public institutions for just simply doing their job.”
The pride parade's decision has been divisive locally among a certain element of the population but I can't see a problem with it. Don't give a platform to terrible people unless you're literally legally obligated to.
 
Oct 27, 2017
8,151

Kernel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,058
The popularity of Sanders and AOC shows that there is a lot of people out there that are excited by an unapologetically progressive and socialist message.

If you poll people on policies that the NDP have proposed, you wind up with great polling for the policies, but the NDP itself doesn't poll so well
Sure there's a lot of support for progressive and socialist policies, probably slowly increasing over time as well too.

National pharmacare and improved healthcare are important and so is the environment etc.

But at the end of the day middle class and higher people are selfish and just want more money. NDP feels like voting to help everyone but themselves. A lot of people are still very well off under the current capitalist system and they don't want any drastic changes. And Scheer promisinh tax cuts and lower gas prices is far more appealing which is why he's polling higher than be deserves.

You'd need some massive turmoil to convince people we need a change from the current liberal-conservative cycle.
 

Hours Left

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,430

Terrell

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,948
Canada
I’m legit in stitches at the notion that the Greens will replace the NDP before the election has even started, as though Green support hasn’t historically cratered in every national election the moment that the polls open. The best you could say is that maybe it won’t crater quite so deep this time.

Sorry but they're teaching their kids as well
Their kids either leave and don’t absorb their parents’ bullshit or they do and they stay because they prefer insular communities that agree with them just like their parents. But the demographic data doesn’t lie, younger generations aren’t staying in enough numbers to replace the aging population, they’re heading to urban centres where they can be effectively deprogrammed. Rural Saskatchewan is basically just a cloister of nursing homes with no nurses.
I’m staying in one now and the only people over 20 and under 40 that I see living here and not just vacationing are people dyed blue right down to the marrow, with the only difference being how deeply blue they are.
 

djkimothy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,279
Dunno how real this is or if this is even a thing but Mark Critch joking around that he got an Andrew Scheer greet by the PM.


Context

 
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