Canada PoliERA |OT| Two Years of Sunny Days? That’s Scheer Madness!

Azzanadra

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,217
Canada
Azzenadra, okay with a Conservative government
Getting the most seats doesn't mean they will form government.

If Trudeau went through with electoral reform, my point is Conservatives would never form government even if they had the most seats because 35% of the seats (which is their ceiling) is not enough to form government when you're the only right-wing party in Parliament.
 

killerrin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,788
Toronto
Ironically, electoral reform would have elected a Conservative minority come October, LOL

The one issue that Trudeau reneged on is the one that saves his government electorally :P
Yes, but actually no.

The Conservatives would only win a minority government if they can command a majority of the house of commons in a vote of confidence. Even in a scenario where the Conservatives got 31% of the seats with the Liberals getting 25%. It only matters if the Conservatives can make up the remaining 20 seat difference. Of which tell us exactly which party is going to ally themselves with the Conservatives when they can coalition with the Liberals instead with all the Liberals needing to do is promise the Greens, green policy... and the NDP, labour and social policy.
 
OP
OP
Caz

Caz

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,544
Canada
Gonna be something else if Doug Ford tanks the CPC but then runs for leadership of the party whom his association to sunk their chances in Ontario.

EDIT: The elections thread is going up tonight, for those wondering.
 
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firehawk12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,099
That feeling when you literally have no one to vote for but still feel compelled to participate in the democratic process because you still have some hope in liberal democracy.

Also known as self-flagellation I guess.

(I'm really not looking forward to shitty ads for the next 2 months)
 

Kernel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,433

Oh that abortion thing was just manufactured by the Liberals?

MONTREAL — Andrew Scheer’s Quebec lieutenant acknowledged Monday that he has publicly misrepresented the Conservative leader’s policy on abortion.

Alain Rayes, the MP for Richmond–Arthabaska tasked with recruitment, has been informing candidates and telling the media that the abortion issue is dead and that MPs will be prevented from reopening it — information that Scheer’s office suggested was news to them and a policy that caught social conservative groups working to elect Conservative “pro-life” candidates by surprise
Oops
 

gutter_trash

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,175
Montreal

Roke

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,144
Canada
Manitoba NDP with a pseudo-climate (but not really) policy announcement I'd expect from a Canadian conservative party.


I think that's the dumbest policy proposal I've seen so far in the campaign.
 

firehawk12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,099
Manitoba NDP with a pseudo-climate (but not really) policy announcement I'd expect from a Canadian conservative party.


I think that's the dumbest policy proposal I've seen so far in the campaign.
I assume like the Alberta NDP, this is basically all they can do to stake a position that doesn't alienate the majority Conservative voters who are willing to vote for an alternative.
 

Tiktaalik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,160
Every single policy announcement I’ve seen so far from the Manitoba NDP has been moronic pocketbook populism.
 

DopeyFish

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,698
You would see more coalition governments under MMPR

That and conservatives would have a government, yes. But they'd be outnumbered by liberal/NDP and green seats so it would basically be a toronto city council setup where we have majority left government with a right wing figurehead. in order to form policy, they'd need to be progressive.
 
You would see more coalition governments under MMPR
Yes, but as things currently stand there's no party with any political interest in allying with the Conservatives. Scheer's party is essentially animated by opposition to the sorts of environmental policies that are the whole basis for the Green Party's existence, and the Liberals and NDP have no incentive to do so either. So there would be no Scheer government.
 
Oct 27, 2017
925
Ironically, electoral reform would have elected a Conservative minority come October, LOL

The one issue that Trudeau reneged on is the one that saves his government electorally :P
In what world would CPC having 33-35% of the house equate into them forming government? It would be LPC+NDP government. The better way to look at it is that MMPR would have resulted in Harper getting no terms as PM.
 

gutter_trash

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,175
Montreal
Imprtant Post.

I have been posting on mobile phone and really fucking up my words lately.

Like 2011 when I meant 2015, and also another post where I forgot to use the word `''prevent'' in my sentence which made the opposite result.

So. Back to correct what I meant.
-----
Correction 1
Ironically, electoral reform would have PREVENTED a Conservative minority come October, LOL

The one issue that Trudeau reneged on is the one that saves his government electorally :P
 

Roke

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,144
Canada

mo60

Member
Oct 25, 2017
671
Edmonton, Alberta
Oh hey Manitoba provincial election debate is on

looks like kinew held his own, pallister was meh and condescending at times and the other two leaders did not do that well.
 

Tiktaalik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,160
Wasn't a fan of the format.

At the end of it I had zero idea what any of the Manitoba Liberal leaders' policies were, which I guess is a huge fail if some Manitoban that doesn't follow politics was tuning in. The moderators even cut him off during his closing speech. Yikes lol.

Kinda disappointing how environmental issues were largely ignored in the debate. Pallister talking about kids reconnecting with nature. Good grief.
 

firehawk12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,099
Yep. It'd be funny to see that the home of Westminster is realizing how fucking stupid the system is if this wasn't going to cause the destruction of the country.
 

Terrell

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,032
Canada
Unifor, of the largest labour unions in Canada is back Trudeau and blasting Scheer

This is so weird. They’re worried about Unifor threatening their objectivity, but not their Tory-friendly management and editorial team? Weird time to show concern, in my mind.

You're right, I forgot about them totally. My HS history teacher was big on Tommy Douglas, he considered him the greatest Canadian in history even. I remember that Douglas brought Canada Universal Healthcare and that his NDP dominated Saskatchewan, so it's kinda sad that the CPC are so dominant there nowadays. I understand PETs energy policy pissed AB/SK off, but I wouldn't expect a formerly heavy NDP area to go so right wing lol

I'd like for the Federal NDP to be dominant there, since it seems like LPC are a no go there.
It absolutely is possible in Saskatchewan’s urban centres. Were all Liberal voters to vote NDP in the last election, the NDP would have picked up several additional seats from Tories, including Scheer’s own seat. This simple fact that Liberals here in SK don’t seem to engage in ABC voting principles is part of why I’m always wary about ABC voting sometimes being used by unscrupulous people to mean “vote Liberal or else”. Perhaps that’s not fair of me, and I don’t feel good about thinking it, but... really, why would someone even bother voting Liberal here if they’re not in Goodale’s riding?

Children are ideologues, idealistic and lack pragmatism, lack long term vision, easily pandered with candy

Children shouldn't vote
You’ve basically just described at least half of CPC voters, so if it’s not an issue exclusive to the young, what does it matter, at this point?

This is a really peculiar take, especially when you consider that:

- 18-25yo voters turning out to vote are a huge part of what gave the Liberals their current majority, making your take entirely antithetical to your desired outcome in the election
- young voters only ADD votes, not take them away, which means nothing of value is lost by allowing a bigger voting pool
- young voters are at least 75% likely to vote for a left-leaning party, and that includes the LPC, despite your inference to the contrary, which puts several swing ridings as being much more likely to elect LPC MPs, meaning if anything is lost by allowing young people to vote, it’s Tories having a chance of being elected in swing ridings

Who here is going to argue that as a bad thing?
 

firehawk12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,099
It absolutely is possible in Saskatchewan’s urban centres. Were all Liberal voters to vote NDP in the last election, the NDP would have picked up several additional seats from Tories, including Scheer’s own seat. This simple fact that Liberals here in SK don’t seem to engage in ABC voting principles is part of why I’m always wary about ABC voting sometimes being used by unscrupulous people to mean “vote Liberal or else”. Perhaps that’s not fair of me, and I don’t feel good about thinking it, but... really, why would someone even bother voting Liberal here if they’re not in Goodale’s riding?
I mean, just look at Ontario and the fuckery the people chose to bring on themselves.
 

Kernel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,433
I mean, just look at Ontario and the fuckery the people chose to bring on themselves.
Ford took advantage of a lot of anger at Wynne.

The Cons are trying to manufacture outrage at Trudeau over SNC but it's not working anymore. But who knows what sort of bullshit they'll come up with on social media combined with PostMedia towing the party line.

They're going to try for a "Hillary's emails" scandal and they'll have foreign help too (China).
 

firehawk12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,099
Ford took advantage of a lot of anger at Wynne.

The Cons are trying to manufacture outrage at Trudeau over SNC but it's not working anymore. But who knows what sort of bullshit they'll come up with on social media combined with PostMedia towing the party line.

They're going to try for a "Hillary's emails" scandal and they'll have foreign help too (China).
Sure, but no one said "ABC and vote NDP" either. I don't remember the shame game that people seem to deploy back then and people weren't trying to shame Liberals who were choosing to vote anyone but NDP because they didn't want to support communist socialists and Rae Days or whatever the bullshit narrative about the Ontario NDP is these days.
 

killerrin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,788
Toronto
Sure, but no one said "ABC and vote NDP" either. I don't remember the shame game that people seem to deploy back then and people weren't trying to shame Liberals who were choosing to vote anyone but NDP because they didn't want to support communist socialists and Rae Days or whatever the bullshit narrative about the Ontario NDP is these days.
What? During the election it was freely being said that people needed to vote NDP to stop Ford. The media said it, The Internet Said it, everyone said it. And the results speak for it with the spread from winning/losing the election being ~3000-4000 votes total
 

Tiktaalik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,160
Liberals would rather have a Conservative government than an NDP one this is not news. We've seen it again and again.

What's the takeaway for social democrats here?

Ignore 'ABC' and don't try to win by bringing Liberal voters over on a one time basis because it's a waste of time. Win elections by growing the base of people that self identify as social democrats and democratic socialists and win that way.
 

firehawk12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,099
Liberals would rather have a Conservative government than an NDP one this is not news. We've seen it again and again.

What's the takeaway for social democrats here?

Ignore 'ABC' and don't try to win by bringing Liberal voters over on a one time basis because it's a waste of time. Win elections by growing the base of people that self identify as social democrats and democratic socialists and win that way.
I just think there's a natural cap to progressive movements in liberal democracies. Otherwise we would have seen the shift generations ago. Instead we're still wondering if abortion should be legal or not in 2019.

What? During the election it was freely being said that people needed to vote NDP to stop Ford. The media said it, The Internet Said it, everyone said it. And the results speak for it with the spread from winning/losing the election being ~3000-4000 votes total
Wynne was still campaigning about how the Liberals were the only way to stop an NDP majority at the end of the campaign.

This is one of those Telltale "firehawk12 remembers" things that have stuck in my head.
 

Tiktaalik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,160
I just think there's a natural cap to progressive movements in liberal democracies. Otherwise we would have seen the shift generations ago. Instead we're still wondering if abortion should be legal or not in 2019.
The abortion/gay marriage stuff is wedge issue dredged out of nowhere to distract voters into focusing on the battleground that the Liberals want to fight on. It's the going to be the Paul Martin 2006 election all over again where the Liberals raise the spectre of guns in our cities or whatever else scary thing they'll pin on the Conservatives.

Meanwhile in polling on issues Canadians are overwhelmingly in favour of social democratic policies like wealth taxes and pharmacare, but that's not part of the conversation because the Liberals don't want it to be. They'd rather fight issues of the past that they've already won, and the media is happy to play along. The dumb ass NDP gets suckered into this battleground too when they should instead be talking about something else.