Canada PoliERA |OT| Two Years of Sunny Days? That’s Scheer Madness!

djkimothy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,535
I feel like the NDP are always playing a different game than what is called, which explains why they have always been relegated to the protest vote.

The conservatives and liberals are playing hockey and the NDP arrives with a cricket bat.
 

firehawk12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,099
The abortion/gay marriage stuff is wedge issue dredged out of nowhere to distract voters into focusing on the battleground that the Liberals want to fight on. It's the going to be the Paul Martin 2006 election all over again where the Liberals raise the spectre of guns in our cities or whatever else scary thing they'll pin on the Conservatives.
Ironically it's the one issue where the Liberals are also afraid to engage Conservatives because of the long gun registry. It's why they refuse to comment on John Tory, of all fucking people, asking for a federal ban on hand guns in Canada. It's something to be "studied" aka please forget about this until the next mass shooting happens.
(Thoughts and prayers, etc, etc.)

Meanwhile in polling on issues Canadians are overwhelmingly in favour of social democratic policies like wealth taxes and pharmacare, but that's not part of the conversation because the Liberals don't want it to be. They'd rather fight issues of the past that they've already won, and the media is happy to play along. The dumb ass NDP gets suckered into this battleground too when they should instead be talking about something else.
The third party advantage comes from painting the other two with the same broad brush, which is why the NDP strategy worked in Quebec when people were desperate for a protest vote and found a place to put it. I just don't know if there's actually a real appetite for a third party alternative, or if there's a way to make people understand that Liberals and Conservatives want to preserve the existing paradigms of governance.

The fact that we live in a political state where the notwithstanding clause can basically be used any time anyone wants now should be alarming to someone if we want to think about how we are trending politically, but it seems to have been forgotten and become a collective shrug now.

I feel like the NDP are always playing a different game than what is called, which explains why they have always been relegated to the protest vote.

The conservatives and liberals are playing hockey and the NDP arrives with a cricket bat.
It's because the carbon emissions it takes to keep the rink cold in the summer is damaging the planet and the NDP are trying to find a more natural alternative to hockey. lol
 
Oct 27, 2017
8,318
Honestly, it seems very weird to me to frame this as “We’re talking about abortion and gay marriage because the Liberals want us to” and not “We’re talking about it because the conservatives chose a leader who is against those things.” Social issues can’t be dismissed as settled when one of the two parties who always wins elections is regressive as hell.
 

firehawk12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,099
Honestly, it seems very weird to me to frame this as “We’re talking about abortion and gay marriage because the Liberals want us to” and not “We’re talking about it because the conservatives chose a leader who is against those things.” Social issues can’t be dismissed as settled when one of the two parties who always wins elections is regressive as hell.
I was actually having a conversation with someone about this because she saw me reading this thread. lol
I don't disagree, but we're not addressing the fundamental material conditions in society that engenders this behaviour and thought in the first place. Populism doesn't just exist in a vacuum, it's by definition reactionary and we're afraid to look deeper to see why someone in the Canadian Armed Forces would not only become a white supremacist, but also go out of their way to help recruit other white supremacists.

I'm just glad America has a reactionary left that has mobilized that wants to bring up these issues and force people to confront them. I just wish we had something similar here.
 

Terrell

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,032
Canada
come back to me to day orange flips blue seats instead of going after red seats
Historically, when/where Liberals are exceptionally weak, NDP become the leftist heir apparent (see also: 2011 in Quebec). This is clearly a better alternative to them going blue. Liberal voters in Ontario seemed to notably decide that was never going to be the case anymore, as did several prairie ridings in the federal election in 2015. It’d be a shame if NDP voters repaid that courtesy by not ABC voting and rolling over for Liberals, just like it was a shame that Liberal voters in SK gave us Andrew Scheer.

You can’t be selectively vindictive about voters not adhering to ABC voting principles or selectively blame leading parties in an election for not turning voters, it’s that simple, because once you do, you open up the same dialogue when the shoe is on the other foot. And no one benefits then.

I feel like the NDP are always playing a different game than what is called, which explains why they have always been relegated to the protest vote.

The conservatives and liberals are playing hockey and the NDP arrives with a cricket bat.
LOL, I should have said ultimate frisbee. :P
Yeah, to say nothing of the the fact that you chose the potentially “un-Canadian” sport of cricket for the party with the leader that has an Indian racial background... yeah, you could have chosen a less thorny option for your sport analogy joke. By a long shot.
 

Terrell

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,032
Canada
dude thats one hell of a reach...
That’s why I clarified that it was 99% likely to be an unfortunate accident, with what I know of the poster. We disagree on a few things, but he’s a decent person.

But imagine those words coming from an alt-righter’s mouth and... would it still be a reach? That’s kind of the point I was trying to make, if it was people who didn’t know anything about djkimothy, something like that could be a seriously bad look for him.
 

Prax

Member
Oct 25, 2017
883
I'm just glad America has a reactionary left that has mobilized that wants to bring up these issues and force people to confront them. I just wish we had something similar here.
I think because the reactionary left of America is born out of and strong from desperation due to America's "special" situation (uncontrolled capitalism in their healthcare market, NRA, systematic shootings, LGBTQ rollbacks, environmental rollbacks, ultraevangelism), for us to have that kind of left, we'd need to devolve about as much as America first. Kind of a monkey's paw desire if you ask me!
 

killerrin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,788
Toronto
I think because the reactionary left of America is born out of and strong from desperation due to America's "special" situation (uncontrolled capitalism in their healthcare market, NRA, systematic shootings, LGBTQ rollbacks, environmental rollbacks, ultraevangelism), for us to have that kind of left, we'd need to devolve about as much as America first. Kind of a monkey's paw desire if you ask me!
Thankfully, atleast we have the "America Follower" effect to look forward to... if you believe in the theory that Canada is always 10 years behind the USA, Politically.
 

Kernel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,433
I think because the reactionary left of America is born out of and strong from desperation due to America's "special" situation (uncontrolled capitalism in their healthcare market, NRA, systematic shootings, LGBTQ rollbacks, environmental rollbacks, ultraevangelism), for us to have that kind of left, we'd need to devolve about as much as America first. Kind of a monkey's paw desire if you ask me!
That was going to be my response to a post about a cap to NDP support in Canada.

Things aren't bad enough in Canada to make people seriously consider the NDP.

Another problem is people don't realize how extreme the conservatives have become. Look at the backlash to Ford, people thought things would mostly stay the same. I'm curious how the polls will reach to the Liberals airing Scheer's despicable views.

Finally given our electoral system, you have to vote Liberal in most ridings to stop the cons. I'd gladly vote NDP if I wasn't throwing my vote away in my riding.

Mind you Singh has been very disappointing.
 

Hours Left

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,737
Thankfully, atleast we have the "America Follower" effect to look forward to... if you believe in the theory that Canada is always 10 years behind the USA, Politically.
Except we are generally years ahead of them in reality. Every major social breakthrough of the last few decades has come to Canada before the US.
 

cameron

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
7,524

CBC News Alerts @CBCAlerts

Canada's economy grew at an annual rate of 3.7% in the 2nd quarter, Statistics Canada says. The growth was led by a 3.7% surge in goods exports, following 2 quarters of declines. Canada's growth rate compares favourably to the US, which is growing at an annual rate of 2%.

8:42 AM - Aug 30, 2019
 

Kernel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,433

Kim Campbell, Canada's first and only female prime minister, wrote on Twitter Wednesday: "I’m rooting for a direct hit on Mar a Lago!"

Campbell on Thursday continued to tweet about the storm and how it is appears to be heading toward Mar-a-Lago.

"Well, we will see if Mrs. Post’s design can stand up to the assault!" she wrote in a tweet, referencing the cereal heiress Marjorie Merriweather Post, who built Mar-a-Lago. "I know Palm Beach well and am sorry if it gets a big hit.
Kim Campbell made the news.
 
OP
OP
Caz

Caz

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,544
Canada

Part of me wonders if the CPC would even bother apologizing if they made an attack ad as grotesque as this.
 

Tiktaalik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,160
Yeah careful what you wish for in hoping the People's Party splits the vote. Reform Party was a joke right up until it wasn't and it destroyed the Progressive Conservatives and dragged the Overton Window to the right.

The People's Party will do the same unless it's snuffed out from the get go.
 

Terrell

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,032
Canada
Yeah careful what you wish for in hoping the People's Party splits the vote. Reform Party was a joke right up until it wasn't and it destroyed the Progressive Conservatives and dragged the Overton Window to the right.

The People's Party will do the same unless it's snuffed out from the get go.
There was no Overton window shift, though. Harper knew how to play the game and got away with what he did by obeying the position of Overton window of the rest of the country by playing up the idea he didn’t want to move it.
Western voters were always littered with bigots, they didn’t REALLY get a voice, Harper muzzling the MPs that the bigots voted for made certain of that. A few years of that is what helped the People’s Party gain any sort of traction, but if the People’s Party survives long enough with all its open bigotry, like hell they’ll hold their tongues to become the prevailing conservatism in this country. Attempts by Ford to move the Overton window are what is costing Conservatives seats in Ontario.

Just branding your party in blue colouring isn’t enough to move the Overton window, let’s not pretend it was that easy.
 

Tiktaalik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,160
No Overton Window shift? Have you forgotten that former Liberal MP Scott Brison once ran for leadership of the Progressive Conservatives?

The rise of the Reform party dragged the entire country to the right. The Reform party argued for austerity and Chretien went along with the politics of the day. Jean Chretien was one of the best conservative Prime Ministers this country ever had, as he enacted severe austerity, and cut taxes and services aggressively. The seed of the housing crisis that endures to this day was sown when Chretien stopped the federal government from funding public housing.

If the PPC is given any credibility at all it'll likely do this same, weakening the Conservative Party, then inevitably merging with it, dragging the Conservative Party closer to the PPC.
 

Kernel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,433
If the PPC is given any credibility at all it'll likely do this same, weakening the Conservative Party, then inevitably merging with it, dragging the Conservative Party closer to the PPC
In a perfect world the social conservatives will split off from the CPC and go join the CHP and Mad Max can merge with the Libertarians that are left over in the CPC.
 

SRG01

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,392
Unpopular opinion, but the austerity measures in Canada during that time was necessary because Canada was IIRC about to get its credit rating downgraded because its sluggish growth meant that they were increasingly incapable of servicing their debt payments.

Like, MMT and similar policies are only effective under the presumption of growth. It all falls apart when growth and inflation don't happen -- much like the US shortly after the 2008 recession when they were printing and stimulating like crazy.

Granted, the austerity wasn't what brought about the Canadian economic boom of the late 90s, but that's also not to say the austerity wasn't necessary -- it most definitely was.
 

Thanatos

Community Manager
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
314
Montreal
Posted in the other thread but I'll post here as well for those that have not seen it: Trudeau was on the latest episode of Patriot Act on Netflix.

 

Gabbo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,551
Posted in the other thread but I'll post here as well for those that have not seen it: Trudeau was on the latest episode of Patriot Act on Netflix.

I feel like people should be tweeting out the shortcomings of the piece to him - not necessarily for Trudeau, but to keep him honest and accurate
 

Tiktaalik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,160
Unpopular opinion, but the austerity measures in Canada during that time was necessary because Canada was IIRC about to get its credit rating downgraded because its sluggish growth meant that they were increasingly incapable of servicing their debt payments.

Like, MMT and similar policies are only effective under the presumption of growth. It all falls apart when growth and inflation don't happen -- much like the US shortly after the 2008 recession when they were printing and stimulating like crazy.

Granted, the austerity wasn't what brought about the Canadian economic boom of the late 90s, but that's also not to say the austerity wasn't necessary -- it most definitely was.
Yeah I've seen that written about that time. There's an article about it here.

The core point I'm trying to make though is that because the conservative movement had taken a big step right with the Reform Party, room had opened up for the Liberals to shift to the right and go with deep austerity with no criticism at all. The Reform Party was arguing that the austerity wasn't big enough.

The most significant lasting thing about the shift right was that the austerity became the new normal. It became normal that the federal government was totally uninvolved in housing. The result is what you see in Vancouver where the newest affordable housing was built in the 1980s. Only now is the government just beginning to dip its toe back into it.
 

gutter_trash

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,175
Montreal
Austerity never worked,
Austerity only serves at weakening the working class and middle class making them more subservient with less money in their pockets.

Austerity is bullshit
 

Roke

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,144
Canada
Austerity never worked,
Austerity only serves at weakening the working class and middle class making them more subservient with less money in their pockets.

Austerity is bullshit
Weird how the big deficit 70s and 80s saw stagnant real wages in Canada while real wages have grown in the time since those deficits were brought under control.
 

Kernel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,433
If both were too afraid to go outside because their lip-flapping inspires punchy behavior in normal people, that'd be swell.
Yeah if these cryptofascists would join Richard Spencer in that department I'd be happier.

Never thought I'd immigrate to Canada from Europe, hearing WW2 stories from my grandparents only to see these people are now running for office.