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Canada PoliERA |OT| Two Years of Sunny Days? That’s Scheer Madness!

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SRG01

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,006
bremon said:
The population on that island isn't that much more than Red Deer. Devoting money out of a federal budget over the course of decades to fix critical infrastructure etc. shouldn't be so difficult. It sounds worse than rural Manitoba where I grew up, and I thought Manitoba's healthcare and infrastructure were a joke.
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TBF, delivering services in any rural area is going to be a challenge. Saskatchewan is similar to Manitoba in that there's only so many tax dollars to go around.

Alberta lucked out by having resource revenues, but without them, we'd be in a similar state.
 
bremon

bremon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,836
SRG01 said:
TBF, delivering services in any rural area is going to be a challenge. Saskatchewan is similar to Manitoba in that there's only so many tax dollars to go around.

Alberta lucked out by having resource revenues, but without them, we'd be in a similar state.
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Yes, but the amount of land a province like NS covers is insignificant compared to the prairies. I grew up a relatively significant distance from Winnipeg. The infrastructure was serviceable. NS is the second most densely populated province in the country and for the island not to have infrastructure and public services so dire in that small an area is just an abject failure.

I don't pay much attention to East Coast Canada and what few anecdotes I get of it are from coworkers in AB. If it's half as bad as ContraWars describes then it's another massive blemish on the governance of this country.

Unrelated, but another blemish on this country is listening to Scott Moe talk to anyone with a mic about how SK's legal challenge to the carbon tax isn't over yet.
 
ContraWars

ContraWars

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,517
Canada
bremon said:
Yes, but the amount of land a province like NS covers is insignificant compared to the prairies. I grew up a relatively significant distance from Winnipeg. The infrastructure was serviceable. NS is the second most densely populated province in the country and for the island not to have infrastructure and public services so dire in that small an area is just an abject failure.

I don't pay much attention to East Coast Canada and what few anecdotes I get of it are from coworkers in AB. If it's half as bad as ContraWars describes then it's another massive blemish on the governance of this country.

Unrelated, but another blemish on this country is listening to Scott Moe talk to anyone with a mic about how SK's legal challenge to the carbon tax isn't over yet.
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I'm telling you people, the maritimes is broke, everyone knows it; but CB is far beyond it. It should be the example for any and all warnings or failures around the argument of "maritime union" or "atlantic union" pooling the resources there. If the region united, who would govern it? Halifax? Fuck that I would say to PEI and NB... too much to lose for them without a massive overhaul to accountability.

PEI is the same population, and light years ahead of the Cape due to actually being able to retain it's taxes and get proper equalization transfers to keep the place alive. That's what the separatists there look at and complain about. Nova Scotia government itself only focuses on greasing the needs of Halifax, and people are literally dying over the healthcare system incompetence beyond it. The NS Government only leverages the poverty statistics of CB as justification to get Ottawa to feed it more transfer money. It goes into their budget and disappears without accountability.

Island separatism would be near impossible without other provinces signing off on it, and the island would only end up buried in insane debt, but people there don't care anymore. They are radicalizing and are desperate enough to take territorial status if it means getting Province House in Halifax to totally go fuck itself once and for all. The NS Liberals have pushed it beyond the brink.

The place is federally Liberal and has been for decades. They have done nothing. Good riddance to both sitting Liberal scumbags that are retiring this year. Pensions well earned on their account.

Think about all of that, then look at the choice between NDP and Conservative. One group collapsing. The other sweeping Canada. Which option is the only hope for change?
I supported NDP for years, but they are out of the fight. I sincerely hope the place goes Conservative and Scheer forms government with some more "progressive conservatives" on the bench.
 
bremon

bremon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,836
While I think the CPC is worse for the country as a whole it's hard for me to hold your opinion against you when your local situation is so dire ContraWars. I also share your reluctance to back a loser, even though I'd prefer if the loser was a viable option (that makes me a pretty blatant bandwagoner compared to the ride or die progressives in this thread but I try to donate where I feel I'll get the best value for my money).
 

StevieP

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,248
ContraWars said:
I'm telling you people, the maritimes is broke, everyone knows it; but CB is far beyond it. It should be the example for any and all warnings or failures around the argument of "maritime union" or "atlantic union" pooling the resources there. If the region united, who would govern it? Halifax? Fuck that I would say to PEI and NB... too much to lose for them without a massive overhaul to accountability.

PEI is the same population, and light years ahead of the Cape due to actually being able to retain it's taxes and get proper equalization transfers to keep the place alive. That's what the separatists there look at and complain about. Nova Scotia government itself only focuses on greasing the needs of Halifax, and people are literally dying over the healthcare system incompetence beyond it. The NS Government only leverages the poverty statistics of CB as justification to get Ottawa to feed it more transfer money. It goes into their budget and disappears without accountability.

Island separatism would be near impossible without other provinces signing off on it, and the island would only end up buried in insane debt, but people there don't care anymore. They are radicalizing and are desperate enough to take territorial status if it means getting Province House in Halifax to totally go fuck itself once and for all. The NS Liberals have pushed it beyond the brink.

The place is federally Liberal and has been for decades. They have done nothing. Good riddance to both sitting Liberal scumbags that are retiring this year. Pensions well earned on their account.

Think about all of that, then look at the choice between NDP and Conservative. One group collapsing. The other sweeping Canada. Which option is the only hope for change?
I supported NDP for years, but they are out of the fight. I sincerely hope the place goes Conservative and Scheer forms government with some more "progressive conservatives" on the bench.
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This all sucks very much, but it doesn't change the fact that

A) you're cheering conservative victories country wide, and
B) a conservative local government would likely make the place even poorer, because I haven't seen a situation anywhere in this country where Conservatives have done anything substantial for the poor and disenfranchised... ever
 
ContraWars

ContraWars

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,517
Canada
StevieP said:
This all sucks very much, but it doesn't change the fact that

A) you're cheering conservative victories country wide, and
B) a conservative local government would likely make the place even poorer, because I haven't seen a situation anywhere in this country where Conservatives have done anything substantial for the poor and disenfranchised... ever
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Country-wide matters to me being in Alberta for work opportunity, and back east dealing with the chaos of endless poverty. The NDP were one and done there, and now the Liberals are doing their best to ignore people that are suffering.

I don't care what you think you've seen helping or not helping the poor. I've lived through it my whole life, and it's still a crisis there.

No political party owns the ideals behind empathy or helping the poor, that's a bullshit talking point in the NDP playbook, and one that Liberals like to steal during election years when they try to hide their own conservative-like nature. The idea that conservatives don't care or know what they're doing to help people is ridiculous. I've heard all kinds of that bullshit out of the NDP supporters when I was one of them.

In NS, all parties are fiscally conservative centrists, or they're irrelevant. NDP went back to being irrelevant far-left OG socialist after losing power, and it's making their platform planks unaffordable nonsense in the eyes of voters now.

As far as seeing anything substantial from Conservatives, the last time my home saw any signs of improvement was rebounding under a Progressive Conservative provincial government. They were the ones who incentivized and subsidized a call center economy in the province to make work, soon after the Federal Liberals decided to shut down the coal industry it operated, throwing thousands of families into joblessness, many less than a few months from pensioned retirement. The union was busted by Ralph Goodale, finance minister Paul Martin's old family business took over the import shipping of coal on boats, taking over the market that still fed the coal fired power plants in the province; EI (Unemployment Insurance) was unattainable for them. Just severance packages, and a fuck you to thousands of blue collar workers. A double-whammy hit to the province, losing revenue and now needing to uphold welfare assistance to deal with the dead economy.

Conservatives tend to know that a dollar earned is always better than a dollar given, and they made work happen. That was the best help the poor had there in 20 years.
 
bremon

bremon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,836
ContraWars said:
When the Conservatives form government again, I will try not to gloat; for Caz's sake.
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Would you like me to play the world's smallest violin for coal miners? It's a shame that not enough has been done to help transition the unemployed but I won't shed tears over lost coal jobs, just like I won't cry when the demise of O&G costs me my job in the foreseeable future.

The only thing CPC ever did for me was create the TFSA, which I only became able to fully take advantage of once I eventually started earning annual income far beyond the top of the lowest federal income tax bracket.
 
DarthWalden

DarthWalden

Prophet of Truth
The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
6,030
bremon said:
Would you like me to play the world's smallest violin for coal miners? It's a shame that not enough has been done to help transition the unemployed but I won't shed tears over lost coal jobs, just like I won't cry when the demise of O&G costs me my job in the foreseeable future.

The only thing CPC ever did for me was create the TFSA, which I only became able to fully take advantage of once I eventually started earning annual income far beyond the top of the lowest federal income tax bracket.
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Having coal jobs die because the world is transitioning to cleaner resources is one thing.

Killing coal jobs just to import coal from elsewhere for nothing more than ideological reasons is nonsense.
 
Tiktaalik

Tiktaalik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,424
ContraWars said:
...
In NS, all parties are fiscally conservative centrists, or they're irrelevant. NDP went back to being irrelevant far-left OG socialist after losing power, and it's making their platform planks unaffordable nonsense in the eyes of voters now.
...
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The bolded section is the real core issue with the Atlantic provinces. You could see this with the PEI election. Much hay being made about an unprecedented Green Party break out, but when you look at the actual issues and platform, everyone in every party is playing from the same playbook. Voters are not really making a substantial choice here. Is it any wonder that longstanding systemic issues aren't being addressed when the switch from Liberal to Conservative to Liberal to Conservative to NDP(!!) to Liberal etc means nothing?
 
ContraWars

ContraWars

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,517
Canada
The federal Liberals have done nothing but harm my part of NS and sit in and out of governments, at best, doing nothing... while the poverty stayed at insane levels. Reason enough to support Scheer if he's the winning team. If he does nothing, so be it. It's not like there's any hope for anything better to come from any government there. But, Conservatives haven't repped the place, let alone during a sitting Conservative minority/majority government. That's the shred of hope talking point I'm making here.

The provincial NS Liberals are currently killing people via incompetence and ignoring the crisis province-wide. I'm not blaming the federal liberals for that. Although, they are both affiliated and tour around to be condescending assholes during election cycles. Reality is, doctor shortage is a national issue, and the Liberals in NS can't be fucking bothered to show up at recruitment summits. NS Liberals are seriously fucking up bad, folks. They are dropping the ball for everyone, making life unaffordable for young people who need to leave to eat, and the retired people stuck there are doomed to take heart attacks and wait a few hours to get sent to hospital that has a "We're Closed" sign on the ER doors.

Anyone who wants to play the world's smallest violin on behalf of us second class, chronically neglected and underfunded people of CB. The "stupid newfies" of Nova Scotia; by all means keep practicing. When you're ready for the stage, we have world's biggest one waiting for you. Come take a gander at it while someone can show you a good time eh b'ys? Hopefully before we're all fuckin' dead from having no hospital staff, no ambulances on the roads, unaffordable insurances due to constant robberies, theft, arsons to get paid for food and drugs, etc. etc.

worldslargestfiddle_784_0.jpg



I'm never going to support Liberals. I know a lot of you will, and that's fine. I just never want to see them represent the island again, and it's likely to happen until the planet is swallowed by the Sun. The status quo apocalypse tier poverty that nobody else actually gives a shit about will continue. Liberal back benchers will sit there and collect pensions for doing nothing. Resistance is futile.
 
bremon

bremon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,836
I'd file that post under "another reason why FPTP is trash". Backbenchers might as well be pylons for the amount of influence they have on anything, 39% vote majority governments mean less than half the country is represented by who they voted for, and voting for the people who represent your best interests is generally futile.

Remind me to holiday on the East coast at some point though. I've heard it's beautiful and I'd be happy to contribute what meagre money I can, it sounds quite clear the government won't.
 

StevieP

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,248
Coal jobs aren't coming back. Nor should they. There certainly weren't enough resources in the last budget for retraining programs, but they were in it. Ndp and Liberal policies both support tools like a basic income (it was being piloted in various places here in Ontario before Conservatives killed it). UBI would benefit people in that kind of pain. But sure, let's Pat the ones that cut social assistance on the back for saving the day.
 
mo60

mo60

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,198
Edmonton, Alberta
Meh. The Alberta NDP will be back once people get tired of the UCP which will take 8-16 years at this point. Changing demographic trends in Alberta will eventually help the ABNDP and other more centrist leaning political parties. Also,with the AB Party essentially losing whatever influence they had from 2015-2019 in Alberta politically and the AB Liberals dead anti-UCP centrist voters or centrist voters who held their noises while voting for the UCP will hunger for a new vehicle to get behind in 2023. The best vehicle is either the AB Party or the ABNDP. The AB Party won't make to much noise in the next four years or so, but their support might increase slightly in 2023 and their won't be a wave of support flowing to the ABNDP, but a small or modest recovery in support in 2023 is not impossible for them as people warm up a tiny bit to them again. Notley is also around still to provide a steady hand for the ABNDP while they focus on the future of their party.
 
OP
OP
Caz

Caz

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
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Oct 25, 2017
13,055
Canada
I wonder how the planet is faring in the timeline where that Dion-led LPC/NDP/BQ coalition occurred.
 
Tiktaalik

Tiktaalik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,424
Pedrito said:
https://greennewdealcanada.ca/

What a fresh idea! I guess nobody cared about the Leap Manifesto so let's re-brand while using AOC's popularity.

MCAG vs. Green New Deal Canada.
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The problem with Leap Manifesto was that it was a low effort top down 'solution' brought forward by celebrities with good pr. It was not developed from the ground up and there was no real movement behind it. Of course it did little to address the core issues of the working poor let alone how they'd be impacted by the costs of addressing climate change, but instead was a feel good document that the rich could get behind because it didn't really affect them.

Maybe the Green New Deal will be different? Not sure yet.

Also btw there's a by-election in Nanaimo going down tonight. It's usually NDP seat so I guess the drama will be whether the Greens can make any gains.
 

Pedrito

Member
Nov 4, 2017
2,367
Tiktaalik said:
The problem with Leap Manifesto was that it was a low effort top down 'solution' brought forward by celebrities with good pr. It was not developed from the ground up and there was no real movement behind it. Of course it did little to address the core issues of the working poor let alone how they'd be impacted by the costs of addressing climate change, but instead was a feel good document that the rich could get behind because it didn't really affect them.

Maybe the Green New Deal will be different? Not sure yet.

Also btw there's a by-election in Nanaimo going down tonight. It's usually NDP seat so I guess the drama will be whether the Greens can make any gains.
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GNDC is pushed by the same group of celebrities, though they don't have Rachel McAdams on board yet so Leap > GNDC.
 
Tiktaalik

Tiktaalik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,424
Leap was dumped on the table during the last election and after it was ignored it's celebrity proponents went back to what they were doing and there was no follow through. Of course now that there's another election here they are again hoping for some attention.

How about they do the hard work to actually build a movement and create real change from the ground up between elections? Of course that would require effort so nah.
 
Tiktaalik

Tiktaalik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,424
Very early still in the Nanaimo by-election, but it looks like the Liberal vote has collapsed and gone to the Greens? Liberals are down to 4th place from 2nd in 2015.
Some NDPers trying out the Greens as well.

(edit: After a glance at the wikipedia page, NDP and Liberals both down about 10% from 2015)

The Greens are leading with 39% of the vote with about 12% reporting.

Live reporting https://globalnews.ca/news/5243620/byelection-nanaimo-indicator-federal-vote/
 
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Tiktaalik

Tiktaalik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,424
Greens win!

(it's a by-election right before a general election so turnout is sub 30% so take any narrative spinning that comes out of this with a grain of salt?)
 
Mr.Mike

Mr.Mike

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,677
It gives the Greens incumbent advantage in one more riding. I expect they will hold on to their seats in the election. Maybe they'll even pick up Guelph and something in PEI.

I feel like the Greens being Official Opposition by 2030 is very possible.
 
killerrin

killerrin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,237
Toronto
Tiktaalik said:
Greens win!

(it's a by-election right before a general election so turnout is sub 30% so take any narrative spinning that comes out of this with a grain of salt?)
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The NDP is going to have to have a hard look at itself after this election. They are losing core segments of their base to the Greens, and the Greens, while more conservative, do take and incorporate a lot of social NDP policy planks.

That said, I am greatly enjoying the Greens finally get the recognition they deserve I'm Canadian Parliament considering we were one of the few places they hadn't been elected (Thanks to FPTP, but I digress)
 
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killerrin

killerrin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,237
Toronto
Mr.Mike said:
It gives the Greens incumbent advantage in one more riding. I expect they will hold on to their seats in the election. Maybe they'll even pick up Guelph and something in PEI.

I feel like the Greens being Official Opposition by 2030 is very possible.
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One of the advantages that they have is that they are relatively unknown, with their main claim to fame being in BC in a capacity where they have been kind of acting in the background behind the NDP which is taking all the cross-country media attention. In addition:

NDP supporters feel comfortable jumping to the greens because they have a lot of NDP social policy planks. Liberal supporters feel comfortable jumping to them because they are economically conservative, and have some decent social policy planks, and Conservative supporters feel comfortable jumping to them because they don't know them, and they aren't the Liberals or the NDP, which means they can "trust them".

So it's an interesting dynamic for them. One which will only last so long, or basically up until the point they "pick a side" and the existing team dynamics can come into play.
 
Tiktaalik

Tiktaalik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,424
It was mentioned last night that the NDP candidate, former Union of British Columbia Indian Chiefs vice-president Bob Chamberlin, was a star and basically the best sort of candidate that you can get for this riding, so that underlines how bad of a loss this was for the NDP here. I suppose in the election campaign we can expect the NDP to lean harder into their environmentalism message in order to shore up that support.

The dynamic of the Liberal collapse is similar to what happened in the provincial election. The BC NDP won in major part due to unhappy Fed Liberals switching their vote to the BC Greens instead of the BC Liberals. I think the Fed Liberals are in for a rough ride in this upcoming election in BC. The party has done many things in BC to make their supporters unhappy and unenthusiastic, and the Greens may be the home for their vote (if they even vote) as they're the remaining not-NDP, not-Conservative party.

It is worth noting that this was a fairly worthless by-election so it's quite possible that voters simply wanted to "send a message" to the larger parties.
 
Tiktaalik

Tiktaalik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,424
The next likely potential pickup for the Greens will be retiring NDP MP Murray Rankin's Victoria seat. The NDP will have to be exceptional if they're to retain this seat and take back Nanaimo.
 
Mr.Mike

Mr.Mike

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,677
Dekuman said:
We know what his comments were?
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http://rabble.ca/news/2019/05/paul-...-vindication-and-sends-message-climate-change

...

During the 1980s, Paul Manly's father, Jim Manly, was an NDP MP for the federal riding that lies just south of Nanaimo-Ladysmith. When he left politics, the elder Manly became active in advocating for the rights of Indigenous people in Canada and in Central America. He wrote a book about martyred Kaqchikel Presbyterian minister Manuel Saquic Vásquez, one of the thousands of Guatemalans murdered by the military and by paramilitary death squads.

Jim Manly also vigorously supported the Palestinian people.

In 2012, he was part of a mission, on the sailing vessel the Estelle, to breach the Israeli embargo on the occupied Gaza Strip. The aim was to deliver much needed non-military supplies to the people of Gaza. Israeli troops boarded the ship in international waters, before it could reach its destination, and arrested 30 activists, including Jim Manly.

When that happened, Paul Manly immediately went to work to attain his father's release. The junior Manly was more than annoyed that Israeli authorities required his father to sign a document falsely confessing that he had entered Israel illegally. The Estelle was not even destined for Israel; it was headed for Gaza.

More important, Paul Manly was bitterly disappointed that neither the Conservative government of the day nor any of the major political parties, including the NDP, showed much interest in his father's case.

Jim Manly got out of detention quickly and unharmed, but the incident created a rift between Paul Manly and the Tom Mulcair-led NDP. When the junior Manly attempted to run for the NDP nomination in Nanaimo-Ladysmith, in 2015, party headquarters blocked him. Rebuffed by his own party he switched teams and ran for the Greens, but only managed a fourth-place finish. Monday's byelection told a different tale.

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Tiktaalik

Tiktaalik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,424


haha

no seriously tho...

Even if you gave people 10x less free money you'd still be giving people basically enough for people to get free bicycles. That'd be a pretty huge expansion of emissions free transportation options.

Of course you'd need to completely redesign our unsustainable car oriented urban infrastructure, and despite all the rah rah about infrastructure spending in 2015, that hasn't happened.
 

lupinko

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,154
I noticed most of the CPC attack ads I've seen have been on TSN or Sportsnet. The newest one is on balancing the budget and the deficit. If I recall the LPC said they would be running deficits for awhile to get things going. Anyway it has a disenfranchised former voter and a taken out of context clip from the globe and mail of JT saying they would balance the budget in 2019.

Unlike the trump comparison ad, this whole liberals raising taxes scare is what I originally figured what the ads would be. I noticed this ad didn't have the disclaimer that it was a CPC ad unlike the Trump one.
 
killerrin

killerrin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,237
Toronto
lupinko said:
Unlike the trump comparison ad, this whole liberals raising taxes scare is what I originally figured what the ads would be. I noticed this ad didn't have the disclaimer that it was a CPC ad unlike the Trump one.
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Honestly, this doesn't surprise me. Conservatives have gotten away with blatantly breaking elections laws for years now. They don't give a shit. The worst that happens to them is a slap on the wrist and a paltry fine that they earn back through an email to their donors. They don't go to jail, they don't lose their seat, the voters don't care and expect them to do it. They straight up know that nothing will happen to them by breaking the rules.
 
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mintzilla

Member
Nov 6, 2017
582
Canada
Tiktaalik said:


haha

no seriously tho...

Even if you gave people 10x less free money you'd still be giving people basically enough for people to get free bicycles. That'd be a pretty huge expansion of emissions free transportation options.

Of course you'd need to completely redesign our unsustainable car oriented urban infrastructure, and despite all the rah rah about infrastructure spending in 2015, that hasn't happened.
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I want to see tax breaks for electric bikes. Subsidizing electric cars for people of means is fucked.

Also build more proper bike infrastructure and tell the dumb hicks that get mad that they lose a lane of parking to go fuck themselves.
 
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