CanadaERA COVID-19 Thread | Practice Social Distancing and Virtually Gather Here - All Non-Essential Posting Is Prohibited

firehawk12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,614
It's going to be such a clusterfuck globally. Premier Legault called out people who lied to doctors and nurses about their condition here a day or two ago. These people are going to get others killed, knowingly, in the name of their own egotistical needs. And no one is going to go after them. It's fucking ridiculous.
At this point flight crew should be in full gear all the time and all passengers should be forced to isolate in Trenton or some other CFB or makeshift camp.

Even if they follow the instructions to go home, if they take a cab or other rideshare service, that's another vector of infection.
 

Baha

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
256
Stay safe. Are they blocking off the front of streetcars too? Or is it considered "safe" because you have your own compartment?

I'm not sure how severance factors into this - but I imagine you're technically only qualified to receive EI after the 3 weeks. I don't know if you can apply now though or if you can just put it through because the backlog will probably take that long to clear at this point.
Do you know if my last day of work would be considered the date of my last paycheck or the day I was laid off?
 

djkimothy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,253
To be honest though, that's one of the reasons why SK, Taiwan, and Singapore did very well with their quarantines.
Yes but I don't think western citizens think on that same plane. The buy in this will require will be a big hurdle as people will see this as a power grab and you know opposition parties will play that card. CPC are already voting against the current economic package.
 

firehawk12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,614
Do you know if my last day of work would be considered the date of my last paycheck or the day I was laid off?
If this is considered severance, your EI would start after those 3 weeks are up. If this is back pay, like your pay is two weeks behind your pay date and isn't money being paid as part of being laid off, then your last day at work is your EI date.

If it is severance, I'm not sure how to indicate that on your application (I don't remember if that's an option) - if you can find a way to speak to someone at Service Canada, that'd be best, but obviously that's going to be hard for a while...
 

firehawk12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,614
Yes but I don't think western citizens think on that same plane. The buy in this will require will be a big hurdle as people will see this as a power grab and you know opposition parties will play that card. CPC are already voting against the current economic package.
Federal government would have to create a new law to suspend/overwrite PIPEDA to compel telcos to provide the info. I assume as this spreads in part because of people coming back and giving it to everyone and people deciding to keep going out, it'll have to be on the table. The equation will literally be number of deaths vs privacy.

(Personally, I feel like the privacy question is over the moment people signed up for social media and started carr so all of this is moot anyway)

Nah, all the seats are still available for anyone as far as I know. I'll manage, I pick up so few people these past few days anyways.
Ah yeah, hopefully it'll stay that way.
 

minus_me

Member
Oct 27, 2017
643
Heh, I was being half disingenuous. I don't think I'd posed the question at all if Quebec had shut down non-essential business earlier. Here in NL (and afaik ON), this lockdown started to take effect on the 16th (IIRC).
Didn't non essential closures start today in Ontario as well?

Partial closures in Quebec had started earlier and ramped up to these ones. School closures started on the 14th i think?

Honestly the country should have shut down and started testing way earlier. I've been off the road ( I travel for work almost exclusively) since the 21st of January.
 

djkimothy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,253
Federal government would have to create a new law to suspend/overwrite PIPEDA to compel telcos to provide the info. I assume as this spreads in part because of people coming back and giving it to everyone and people deciding to keep going out, it'll have to be on the table. The equation will literally be number of deaths vs privacy.

(Personally, I feel like the privacy question is over the moment people signed up for social media and started carr so all of this is moot anyway)


Ah yeah, hopefully it'll stay that way.
Feel free to present that to the public who takes their cues to a media hell bent on sensationalist headlines. This will not be an easy sell.
 

Rowsdower

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
2,959

firehawk12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,614
Feel free to present that to the public who takes their cues to a media hell bent on sensationalist headlines. This will not be an easy sell.
If we start seeing Italy-style images in downtown Toronto hospitals? I think everything's on the table.
We're not testing anyone who is coming into the country still, and there's still no real penalty for people who choose not to self-isolate anyway, so this is going to get worse.
 

djkimothy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,253
If we start seeing Italy-style images in downtown Toronto hospitals? I think everything's on the table.
We're not testing anyone who is coming into the country still, and there's still no real penalty for people who choose not to self-isolate anyway, so this is going to get worse.
Everything is on the table, even martial law. But I say again. Try persuading the public to allow the government track them via cell phone. This is even something that will be divided along party lines as I've shown before that people who take this virus seriously is divided along party support. Even NDP supporters don't think this is as serious as Liberal supporters. This has politicization written all over it. But again, feel free to convince the masses when the government just walked back clause 2.
 

firehawk12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,614
Everything is on the table, even martial law. But I say again. Try persuading the public to allow the government track them via cell phone. This is even something that will be divided along party lines as I've shown before that people who take this virus seriously is divided along party support. Even NDP supporters don't think this is as serious as Liberal supporters. This has politicization written all over it. But again, feel free to convince the masses when the government just walked back clause 2.
I think there's a difference between unlimited powers with no checks and balances and a temporary suspension of PIPEDA, but admittedly I gave up on privacy 15 years ago when I got my Facebook account so maybe I don't care as much about privacy as the average person.

But people on social media are already being vigilantes by taking photos of gatherings and calling the cops. As this gets worse, I expect public sentiment to flip fairly quickly.
 

djkimothy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,253
I think there's a difference between unlimited powers with no checks and balances and a temporary suspension of PIPEDA, but admittedly I gave up on privacy 15 years ago when I got my Facebook account so maybe I don't care as much about privacy as the average person.

But people on social media are already being vigilantes by taking photos of gatherings and calling the cops. As this gets worse, I expect public sentiment to flip fairly quickly.
Clause 2 was a temporary suspension of conventional financial oversight. How is that argument different from a "temporary suspension" of privacy laws. Again, will you guarantee the NDP and CPC won't oppose this policy move? How will the press react? Political buy in is a lot harder than you think considering that the average person does not know the machinery of their privacy rights.
 

Arthois

Member
Oct 27, 2017
437
Didn't non essential closures start today in Ontario as well?

Partial closures in Quebec had started earlier and ramped up to these ones. School closures started on the 14th i think?

Honestly the country should have shut down and started testing way earlier. I've been off the road ( I travel for work almost exclusively) since the 21st of January.
Yes, last day of class was the 12th. Quebec is also further along the curve that the rest of Canada because our spring break is earlier(late Feb/early March).

56% of Quebec jobs are in something considered essential.
 

firehawk12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,614
Clause 2 was a temporary suspension of conventional financial oversight. How is that argument different from a "temporary suspension" of privacy laws. Again, will you guarantee the NDP and CPC won't oppose this policy move? How will the press react? Political buy in is a lot harder than you think considering that the average person does not know the machinery of their privacy rights.
You set up a clear governance structure. Even Michael Geist, digital/privacy wonk, is pitching a solution because this is becoming an actual possibility.

These safeguards should include strict limits on data retention, with the location data immediately deleted as soon as the necessary period (presumably 14 days) expires. Moreover, there should be clear limitations on use, ensuring that the data only be used for the enumerated public health purposes. The policies should also feature restrictions on further disclosure, severely limiting access only to trusted individuals within governmental organizations.

Even with these safeguards, appropriate oversight and penalties are needed. This includes transparency about the policies, public reports on data access and use, real-time oversight from the Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada, and tough penalties for any potential violations.

Perhaps most importantly, these powers must be temporary in nature, requiring parliamentary approval for short term use and regular renewals as events warrant. Given the privacy risks associated with these uses of sensitive health and location tracking, we must ensure that it does not become the new normal.
These are the basic steps for governance that you can put in place, and then you message it properly - whether by doubling down on the "duty" language or maybe that won't even be necessary if big cities like Toronto and Vancouver become overwhelmed.

I think that story about the woman from Spain being able to board the plane with symptoms and potentially infect an entire plane has spooked me enough to see that this is going to get much worse before it gets better.
 

djkimothy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,253
You set up a clear governance structure. Even Michael Geist, digital/privacy wonk, is pitching a solution because this is becoming an actual possibility.
So no then?
 

NTGYK

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,015
I do something similar, if I handle something outside of my care I wash hands, then handle with a towel or something. I don't' think my bottle of isopropylalcohol would do much since the cardboard would absorbe the liquid not applying a good coverage. I hope that whatever remaining food service would apply the similar amount of care handling food...



Thats a good idea, i haven't thought of that.

We've entered "The Dark Knight" phase of this pandemic.


God, I'm starting to obsess over that pizza box...
I am... okay with this.
 

SushiX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
361
Once this mask shortage is over, if it ever is, I'd love to see everyone wearing masks in public in conjunction with temperature monitoring in public places and cell phone monitoring. We need to look at countries that are managing this crisis without completely shutting down (Taiwan, South Korea, Singapore, etc.) and learn from them. Gonna need to increase the number of tests if we transition to this sort of thing, though...
 

firehawk12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,614
I assume this hypothetical bill passes with a majority if not unanimous consent so it doesn't matter?

Like I said, if we start seeing hospitals with people lying in the hallways because there aren't enough beds, even if you are just thinking politically and don't care about human life, inaction is going to be career suicide.
 

djkimothy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,253
I assume this hypothetical bill passes with a majority if not unanimous consent so it doesn't matter?

Like I said, if we start seeing hospitals with people lying in the hallways because there aren't enough beds, even if you are just thinking politically and don't care about human life, inaction is going to be career suicide.
You assume? the Conservatives are holding up an 82 billion dollar aid package RIGHT NOW!
 

ElephantShell

10,000,000
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,013
Wonder if and when BC advance to the "essential services only" phase. My office is barely hanging on with everybody working from home and a support team of like 6 in the office but if they can't go in anymore were probably getting laid off.
 

Baha

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
256
If this is considered severance, your EI would start after those 3 weeks are up. If this is back pay, like your pay is two weeks behind your pay date and isn't money being paid as part of being laid off, then your last day at work is your EI date.

If it is severance, I'm not sure how to indicate that on your application (I don't remember if that's an option) - if you can find a way to speak to someone at Service Canada, that'd be best, but obviously that's going to be hard for a while...
Thank you for the help. It has been hard getting in contact with someone at Service Canada and it's only going to get harder from now on.
 

firehawk12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,614
Thank you for the help. It has been hard getting in contact with someone at Service Canada and it's only going to get harder from now on.
Yeah, it's tough because I'm also sure the service centers are packed too and not really the best place to go. Hopefully you can get some definitive answers.
 

killerrin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,451
Toronto
Seriously? it hasn't changed since I last watched the National? God tomorrows news cycle is going to be brutal finger pointing all around.
Just going off the news, it really sounds like things are being dug along political lines.
  • BQ says they are going to vote on the bill as is.
  • BQ is saying that despite some of the NDP's questions/pushes to increase the scope of the programs, behind closed doors they too are signaling that they are willing to vote on the bill as-is
  • Nothing about the greens, but the have one member who on Twitter was extremely eagre to sign the bill
  • CPC is the sole party that is refusing to get on board
I think this think might be forced off of an instantanious forwarding to the Senate, and instead into a forced majority vote.
 

Anaron

Member
Oct 26, 2017
680
Jesus Christ, a woman on CBC said she lied about having Covid and boarded a plane because she knew she wouldn't be able to come back to Canada otherwise. Now everyone on that flight could also have it.

We're totally fucked. No one is going to be honest about being sick and this shit is going to spread when more and more people come home.

But yeah, let's just focus on people on cruise ships...
why would they not screen her?

Jesus Christ
 

Kinsei

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
12,513
Seriously? it hasn't changed since I last watched the National? God tomorrows news cycle is going to be brutal finger pointing all around.
It seems that this is all on the cons. They can't really start pointing back if the other four parties point to them unanimously.
 

Gabbo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,232
It seems that this is all on the cons. They can't really start pointing back if the other four parties point to them unanimously.
I'm waiting to hear from Scott Reid to see just how dead our democracy is, honestly, as it seems something passed. Hopefully it's not going to hold this roll out any longer, unless the Senate starts playing games...
 

Reizzz

Member
Jun 19, 2019
450
So my office was one of the ones closed with the Ontario shutdown. Majority of the employees are now working from home but I can't as I don't have a lan line so I was going on EI. Now I get an email from them saying after some legal discussions they has been granted permission to stay open and I can come back to work tomorrow...wtf I honestly don't feel safe going in but I need the money.
 
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hrœrekr

Member
May 3, 2019
700
So my office was one if the ones closed with the Ontario shutdown. Majority of the employees are now working from home but i can't as I don't have a lan line so i was going on EI. Now I get an email from them saying after some legal discussions they has been granted permission to stay open and I can come back to work tomorrow...wtf i honestly don't feel safe going in but I need the money.
Ford's List is making more places reopen than shutdown. It's a mess.
 

OrangeNova

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,945
Canada
So my office was one if the ones closed with the Ontario shutdown. Majority of the employees are now working from home but i can't as I don't have a lan line so i was going on EI. Now I get an email from them saying after some legal discussions they has been granted permission to stay open and I can come back to work tomorrow...wtf i honestly don't feel safe going in but I need the money.
You have the right to refuse unsafe work.
 

Camel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,043
Some people will be, I am too. But others won't.

The CPC are already holding up the 82 billion dollar package. Opposition parties will be chomping at the bit to label the Liberals as a power grabbing party. And the Press will oblige with that narrative.
That is because the Liberals tried to take parliament out of the equation when deciding whether to raise or decrease taxes.....until December 2021. It was a clear power grab from a minority government and may have been unconstitutional. That is why they amended it and got the NDP and BQ on board.

We are facing this country's biggest crisis since the second world war. If the CPC would try to block legitimate emergency measures like GPS tracking then who cares.