• The GiftBot 2.0 Launch Giveaway Extravaganza has come to a close with an astounding 8073 games given away to the community by 696 members, a huge success thanks to you! The gifting now continues with more official prizes in the new Gaming Giveaways |OT|. Leftover Steam codes are also being given away to the PC Gaming Era community.

Canadian Election 2019 |OT| One Long Year of Scheer Stupidity

djkimothy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,342
Eliminating loopholes would probably be a better first step(and they've done some) but I agree otherwise.
Trudeau tried to tax the rich first year in. No one cared cause they just moved money around to avoid taxes. We could increase tax to 70% and no one would care. It’s the loopholes that need to be closed. But they tried that and it’s hard politically.
 

The Hermit

Avenger
Oct 31, 2017
3,305
Singh would be good as a TV host. Music awards too and do official ambassadorial work with Rihanna.
Trudeau did a good job calling out Singh's tough but hollow posturing about Bill 21 at the debates.
It's the same with SIngh shooting his mouth off about Trump impeachment and being a so-called strong voice for Canada. He's just using wind to puff himself up. Poseur. If Singh's so strong then he can step into downtown Regina and talk tough to the gangs in that area and help with the healing of the community before he thinks about being strong to the US or anyone else.
 

Shifty

Member
Oct 28, 2017
72
Eliminating loopholes would probably be a better first step(and they've done some) but I agree otherwise.
Trudeau tried to tax the rich first year in. No one cared cause they just moved money around to avoid taxes. We could increase tax to 70% and no one would care. It’s the loopholes that need to be closed. But they tried that and it’s hard politically.
The tax changes implemented by the liberals did seek to improve the concept of integration in our tax system, but they never went as far as what the NDP are proposing in terms of just straight up "taxing the super rich". I work in tax and even myself and the few colleagues supportive of the motive for the changes recognized that the liberals rolled them out in the worst way possible. It was a confusing mess, handled poorly by the government. Even the rules they did end sticking with create a big burden on businesses and professionals in terms of staying compliant. And this doesn't just impact the rich. If you are a legitimate small business owner that these rules ultimately don't target, you may now have significantly more headache and cost in defending your filing position in the event cra ever looks into things and disagrees for whatever horseshit reason (which unfortunately does happen all too commonly).

I'm all for making our tax system fairer (as much shit as I get for it at work), but I also want to fix the byzantine mess we have in terms of rules on top of rules. The liberals utterly failed at the second point, and fact made it significantly worse.

I would need to see the exact details of how the ndp intend to implement a wealth tax, but their proposal like upping the capital gains inclusion rate is something that is simple yet effective. I would hope a wealth tax could be structured in a way that it doesn't create a mess for everyone else.
 

Tiktaalik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,420
I would need to see the exact details of how the ndp intend to implement a wealth tax, but their proposal like upping the capital gains inclusion rate is something that is simple yet effective. I would hope a wealth tax could be structured in a way that it doesn't create a mess for everyone else.
Yeah the 75% inclusion for capital gains proposal hasn't gotten enough press. It would be significant and I'd argue it'd also do well to cool some of the hot real estate markets (ie. Vancouver, Toronto) as it would discourage people from buying multiple properties by limiting the tax free gains.

I think the simplest approach to a Wealth Tax implementation would be to only track equities. That should be easy and doable. The next step would be to also keep track of real estate, but then you're kind of stomping on the toes of municipalities (property tax is also a defect wealth tax). Not sure if it's worth it. Seems easier to tax property by upping the capital gains inclusion on property (why not make the cap gains inclusion 100% on real estate?). Getting into tracking other forms of wealth storage (ie. art) seems like a logistical nightmare that should probably be avoided.
 

Mr.Mike

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,591
Capital gains are only taxed upon realization, which is a fancy way to say when you sell an asset. The point of the wealth tax would be to tax assets on an ongoing basis and regardless of whether a profit is being realized on it.

I'd imagine it'd be implemented a lot like a management expense ratio in mutual funds and ETFs, at least insofar as public financial securities go. And similarly to property taxes for real estate. The difficult part seems like it would be valuing private corporations whose shares aren't traded on a public stock exchange.

Art should totally be included too. Also there's no good reason for lottery winnings to be excluded. I'd put it at 0.5% per year on all wealth on everyone with more than 2 million dollars in net worth, but excluding TFSAs, RRSPs and other tax advantaged accounts from that net worth calculation, and the assets inside such accounts wouldn't be subject to wealth tax.
 
Last edited:

Kernel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,066
Not that I was a fan or anything but I'm a bit surprised Theo Fleury is a rambling right wing troll on Twitter who retweets Kinsella's bullshit.
 

TomoeGoZen

Member
Oct 26, 2017
407
Toronto
This election is actually making me panic and I can't wait until it's over. I'm Ontarian and was around last thread to watch Doug come in and make life much, much harder for me, so the thought of Scheer becoming prime minister is nightmarish. But I don't know what to do. I like NDP more than Liberals (I'm Black Canadian and aside from other things I don't appreciate trudeau's Blackface/Brownface scandal), but I'm scared that if I vote NDP it'll help Conservatives win. I'm so paranoid about this happening that I haven't even went out to vote yet.

How is everyone else dealing with pre-election jitters?
 

Shifty

Member
Oct 28, 2017
72
Another thing I'd like see go is the lifetime capital gains exemption. Every time there is a new budget people rush to crystallize their LCGE because they're afraid it's going to be taken away. I just want somebody to finally go through with it.

You already get the benefit of a not full income inclusion on your gain, do we really need to reward people with a huge tax free limit on top of that?

Don't think I've seen any party bring this up though.
 
Oct 27, 2017
8,855
This election is actually making me panic and I can't wait until it's over. I'm Ontarian and was around last thread to watch Doug come in and make life much, much harder for me, so the thought of Scheer becoming prime minister is nightmarish. But I don't know what to do. I like NDP more than Liberals (I'm Black Canadian and aside from other things I don't appreciate trudeau's Blackface/Brownface scandal), but I'm scared that if I vote NDP it'll help Conservatives win. I'm so paranoid about this happening that I haven't even went out to vote yet.

How is everyone else dealing with pre-election jitters?
Do you know how your riding historically votes? If it’s a strong NDP riding then you shouldn’t worry about voting for them. If not, well, you have to consider the choice that pisses of a lot of NDP supporters.
 
This election is actually making me panic and I can't wait until it's over. I'm Ontarian and was around last thread to watch Doug come in and make life much, much harder for me, so the thought of Scheer becoming prime minister is nightmarish. But I don't know what to do. I like NDP more than Liberals (I'm Black Canadian and aside from other things I don't appreciate trudeau's Blackface/Brownface scandal), but I'm scared that if I vote NDP it'll help Conservatives win. I'm so paranoid about this happening that I haven't even went out to vote yet.

How is everyone else dealing with pre-election jitters?
What riding are you in?
 

Kernel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,066

mo60

Member
Oct 25, 2017
844
Edmonton, Alberta
Do you know how your riding historically votes? If it’s a strong NDP riding then you shouldn’t worry about voting for them. If not, well, you have to consider the choice that pisses of a lot of NDP supporters.
Bad idea to vote based on the history of your riding. The NDP vote has collapsed in a lot of their more solid seats in the last four years or so. OP probably does not live in a solid NDP riding anymore.
 

TomoeGoZen

Member
Oct 26, 2017
407
Toronto
Do you know how your riding historically votes? If it’s a strong NDP riding then you shouldn’t worry about voting for them. If not, well, you have to make the choice that pisses of a lot of NDP supporters.
What riding are you in?
Scarborough-Guildwood. From online it looks like it's heavily Liberal (60% vote share from last election), but in person I see a LOT of conservative signs...

NDP was at 11% last time, and Cons were at 26%
 
Scarborough-Guildwood. From online it looks like it's heavily Liberal (60% vote share from last election), but in person I see a LOT of conservative signs...

NDP was at 11% last time, and Cons were at 26%
John McKay won that riding even in 2011 when the Liberals basically got wiped out nationwide. In a scenario where he loses, the Conservatives would be romping nationwide and your vote would assuredly not matter.

So if you would prefer to vote for the NDP, I would do so without worrying.
 

Lone_Prodigy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,148
Capital gains are only taxed upon realization, which is a fancy way to say when you sell an asset. The point of the wealth tax would be to tax assets on an ongoing basis and regardless of whether a profit is being realized on it.

I'd imagine it'd be implemented a lot like a management expense ratio in mutual funds and ETFs, at least insofar as public financial securities go. And similarly to property taxes for real estate. The difficult part seems like it would be valuing private corporations whose shares aren't traded on a public stock exchange.

Art should totally be included too. Also there's no good reason for lottery winnings to be excluded. I'd put it at 0.5% per year on all wealth on everyone with more than 2 million dollars in net worth, but excluding TFSAs, RRSPs and other tax advantaged accounts from that net worth calculation, and the assets inside such accounts wouldn't be subject to wealth tax.
Plenty of people in Vancouver and Toronto are living in $2M+ homes.
 

KarmaCow

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,623
Scarborough-Guildwood. From online it looks like it's heavily Liberal (60% vote share from last election), but in person I see a LOT of conservative signs...

NDP was at 11% last time, and Cons were at 26%
It's slightly different but Scarborough-Guildwood is one of the few ridings that the Ontario Liberals held on to last year, you should be fine. Also I live there too and while tracking signs is kinda bunk, I've see more John McKay signs on actual people's lawns instead of strewn across intersections and on business' lawns.
 

console lover

Member
Feb 19, 2018
6,011
Capital gains are only taxed upon realization, which is a fancy way to say when you sell an asset. The point of the wealth tax would be to tax assets on an ongoing basis and regardless of whether a profit is being realized on it.

I'd imagine it'd be implemented a lot like a management expense ratio in mutual funds and ETFs, at least insofar as public financial securities go. And similarly to property taxes for real estate. The difficult part seems like it would be valuing private corporations whose shares aren't traded on a public stock exchange.

Art should totally be included too. Also there's no good reason for lottery winnings to be excluded. I'd put it at 0.5% per year on all wealth on everyone with more than 2 million dollars in net worth, but excluding TFSAs, RRSPs and other tax advantaged accounts from that net worth calculation, and the assets inside such accounts wouldn't be subject to wealth tax.
Theres a huge difference in two million networth and two million on the bank. A crappy house in southern Ontario already puts you at 500k even if you bought 30 years ago. Someone who bought a small multi residential for renting decades ago etc. Especially in regard to those small appartment building owners, who do you think that cost gets passed on to? And full on draconian rent controls are not the answer, it has done squat in Europe. Supply is the issue
 

Mr.Mike

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,591
I'm all for greatly loosening zoning laws and am entirely against any sort of rent control. That said I'm totally cool with a wealth tax, and I think the left is being way too skittish trying to reassure upper middle class people that "No No No this wealth tax is only for really rich people".
 

console lover

Member
Feb 19, 2018
6,011
I'm all for greatly loosening zoning laws and am entirely against any sort of rent control. That said I'm totally cool with a wealth tax, and I think the left is being way too skittish trying to reassure upper middle class people that "No No No this wealth tax is only for really rich people".
I think personal primary residence should be not counted in a net worth for a wealth tax. Values just escalate to high to fast, it could screw people over. Either don't include it, or include some sort of annual cost of living equivalence to factor in that everything is getting more expensive
 

console lover

Member
Feb 19, 2018
6,011
It's probably worth examining why people think financial assets are okay to tax but not residential real estate.
It depends, are we talking incorporated or personal? I have a friend who owns a small apartment building. He pays over 20k a year in property tax just on the building. I think that's fair, I'm sorry but when just in property taxes you're paying that much how much more is needed? And although I don't know his finances (obviously) I sincerely doubt this building pulls in six digits gross, let alone net
 

Lone_Prodigy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,148
Real estate is always tricky because everyone needs a place to live. We can live without stocks or lottery wins but shelter is essential. Some of these paper millionaires are old and retired with little savings; they could sell and cash out, but then they don't have anywhere to go. You can't force them to sell or downsize.
 

console lover

Member
Feb 19, 2018
6,011
Real estate is always tricky because everyone needs a place to live. We can live without stocks or lottery wins but shelter is essential. Some of these paper millionaires are old and retired with little savings; they could sell and cash out, but then they don't have anywhere to go. You can't force them to sell or downsize.
House rich, money poor. It's not as uncommon as some would think, it's why primary residence shouldn't be counted towards a prospective wealth tax