• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
Status
Not open for further replies.

bremon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,852
I see people saying this and I'm just sitting here like "???"

When was the last time a Liberal or Conservative party was ever competent? And here we are, spinning the wheel of fortune between Liberal and Conservative, while judging the NDP with a completely different and illogical set of standards.
If they were competent they would have an easier time convincing people they were capable of achieving things, so would have actual donors and a war chest and be able to afford an election campaign.

If they were competent they would have some serious ground game for getting people excited to vote and drumming up grassroots fundraising.

If they were competent they wouldn't have their provincial factions fighting amongst themselves and my former Premier telling news organizations that she couldn't guarantee she would vote for the NDP candidate in her riding.

If they were competent they would have built on Jack's success rather than having Angry Tom blow up the party. They'd have people like Nathan Cullen sticking around. They'd have an easier time finding people to run for them.

Liberals are competent enough to win an election. They're competent enough to pass legislation that positively effects my life. People vote for people they think can win, it's up to the NDP to fake it until they make it, and that's from someone who's only voted orange provincially and federally until last week. NDP are only competent enough to know that opposition is an easier job than governing.




I'm sure it's no coincidence they have Scheer shaking their hands with that person.

Holy shit that is beyond the pale.
 

Kinsei

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
20,519
With Jagmeet's popularity, I hope he sticks around as leader. The last thing the party needs is a new leader in the next election.
 

Frimaire

Member
Oct 25, 2017
826
Canada
Yes, you could vote early on campus again this year as part of the Vote on Campus initiative from Elections Canada, which ran from Oct. 5th to Oct. 9th. The regular advance polling then started on Friday, Oct. 11th.

Just for interest... Turnout at early on-campus polls significantly up from 2015
Yeah, the on-campus thing made it super easy to vote, I was in and out in like 5 mins. You gotta use the weird special ballots, though...
I'm kinda surprised that turnout was so high, I was the only person there when I went, maybe it was just a slow time.
 

Prax

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,755
About the tax increases and their effects on pensions and retirement funds: thanks Tiktaalik, SRG01, bremon and any others for your thoughts!

I think since you all don't know for sure or even conflict about what the policies affect, it just goes to show that numbers and tax policy hard and people don't like math to begin with! lol
I half assumed that provisions would be made to exclude or grandfather in things such as pensions, but I'm not sure the NDP (or Greens) talk about these policy details. People care a lot about their money when they have it.

If someone who recently enters the workforce has maxed out their contribution room for rrsp (this is 18% income per year right?) and tfsa early (5500+/year), they pretty much have no place else but a taxable account if they are feeling "fiscally responsible". When they get more room, electing to transfer into tax sheltered accounts triggers a sale, doesn't it? for example, I get company shares as a percentage of my pay. This stays in a taxable account the company sets up in my name. When I try to transfer this into a tfsa, it will trigger a sale and I have to pay capital gains (or reap losses or something).
As for older people, they usually inherit properties from their dead relatives or may have purchased some cottage. If they sell, it will be subject to capital gains tax, wouldn't it?

--Actually, speaking of.. I recently took over part of my parents' house in order to extend a mortgage so they could fix the house up (they retired now, have only OAS to live off of, so no real income, but this is at least better than they welfare they were on and I still have to pay for some of their bills lol--hopefully the Libs or whoever increasing their OAS/GIS will help them out some). This leads me to tecnically having two properties so.. definitely this will affect me if I try to sell too. :0

Granted, very little people (gonna guess only 15% of people) are financially literate and savvy enough to even think of doing any of this, but I think it will end up affecting a lot of people who otherwise would be ignorant about it (maybe ignorance is bliss in this case). When they find out it does though, it probably will generate enough anger, some of it irrational, to cause backlash. Yeah, it could be a case of "screw you, got mine", but a looooot of people have these sentiments when they realize they do have something to lose after all, even if it means paying an extra cent on something. Unless there are explicit exemptions, even if they are still getting a better deal than normal, it will "feel like" they lost something. We already have single or childless people feeling bitter like they are losing out to married couples and/or people with children because they don't get the same breaks and benefits, even when they technically may be "better off" financially to begin with.



That said, if NDP do become coalition team, I hope Singh and Trudeau's combined image of "positivity" and actual good policy work is enough to detract from any backlash lol. but I think the inevitable recession if it hits during their term will be blamed on them and their "socialist policies".
 
Last edited:

SRG01

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,014
About the tax increases and their effects on pensions and retirement funds: thanks Tiktaalik, SRG01, bremon and any others for your thoughts!

I think since you all don't know for sure or even conflict about what the policies affect, it just goes to show that numbers and tax policy hard and people don't like math to begin with! lol
I half assumed that provisions would be made to exclude or grandfather in things such as pensions, but I'm not sure the NDP (or Greens) talk about these policy details. People care a lot about their money when they have it.

If someone who recently enters the workforce has maxed out their contribution room for rrsp (this is 18% income per year right?) and tfsa early (5500+/year), they pretty much have no place else but a taxable account if they are feeling "fiscally responsible". When they get more room, electing to transfer into tax sheltered accounts triggers a sale, doesn't it? for example, I get company shares as a percentage of my pay. This stays in a taxable account the company sets up in my name. When I try to transfer this into a tfsa, it will trigger a sale and I have to pay capital gains (or reap losses or something).
As for older people, they usually inherit properties from their dead relatives or may have purchased some cottage. If they sell, it will be subject to capital gains tax, wouldn't it?

--Actually, speaking of.. I recently took over part of my parents' house in order to extend a mortgage so they could fix the house up (they retired now, have only OAS to live off of, so no real income, but this is at least better than they welfare they were on and I still have to pay for some of their bills lol--hopefully the Libs or whoever increasing their OAS/GIS will help them out some). This leads me to tecnically having two properties so.. definitely this will affect me if I try to sell too. :0

Granted, very little people (gonna guess only 15% of people) are financially literate and savvy enough to even think of doing any of this, but I think it will end up affecting a lot of people who otherwise would be ignorant about it (maybe ignorance is bliss in this case). When they find out it does though, it probably will generate enough anger, some of it irrational, to cause backlash. Yeah, it could be a case of "screw you, got mine", but a looooot of people have these sentiments when they realize they do have something to lose after all, even if it means paying an extra cent on something. Unless there are explicit exemptions, even if they are still getting a better deal than normal, it will "feel like" they lost something. We already have single or childless people feeling bitter like they are losing out to married couples and/or people with children because they don't get the same breaks and benefits, even when they technically may be "better off" financially to begin with.



That said, if NDP do become coalition team, I hope Singh and Trudeau's combined image of "positivity" and actual good policy work is enough to detract from any backlash lol. but I think the inevitable recession if it hits during their term will be blamed on them and their "socialist policies".

The thing to note about capital gains/losses is that because it is 50% of the actual gain/loss, the tax hit is usually a lot less than what most people think of it to be.

Like, for myself, it makes more sense to invest outside of an RRSP because my gains are taxed at half (ie. a capital of $1000 is taxed as $500 of my rate) -- whereas RRSP are taxed at 100% upon withdrawal.

As for the property thing, you have to talk to an actual tax advisor about that.
 

Prax

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,755
The thing to note about capital gains/losses is that because it is 50% of the actual gain/loss, the tax hit is usually a lot less than what most people think of it to be.

Like, for myself, it makes more sense to invest outside of an RRSP because my gains are taxed at half (ie. a capital of $1000 is taxed as $500 of my rate) -- whereas RRSP are taxed at 100% upon withdrawal.

As for the property thing, you have to talk to an actual tax advisor about that.
Wouldn't that also depend on whether you make enough now vs when you draw down your RRSPs to make the difference too? But I guess at that age you'd just depend on the taxable for your main income to dilute the amount of taxes paid? /hatemath

...
OR I can just hold it forever and let that be an inheritance problem for someone else because it's in Toronto and I'd never be able to buy back in at a good location ever again at this rate lol.
 

Deleted member 14735

Oct 27, 2017
930
Elsewhere I've seen the point made that when you see the NDP surge in the polls like this, it makes sense also to keep in mind, you likely weren't polled yourself. How many others who would prefer an NDP government also weren't polled? Even if the NDP can't form government, if they can take more seats, this seems like a good push to be making. The projection right now is a Liberal minority government with Cons very unlikely to win right?

I'm strongly considering voting for NDP this time rather than voting strategically. I'm reluctant to even come in here with this because of how this thread slants Liberal and some of the very strongly held views I've seen on this, but seeing these poll numbers rising, and being in a situation where personally, between Liberal and Conservative, that's a vote between the lesser of two undesirable parties. And why should I do that, when there's a party right there that actually embodies my beliefs much more strongly, and is growing in support?

I guess I kinda want to know what other NDP aligned people are planning to do here.
 

Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
Member
Oct 24, 2017
34,308
I swear gutter's epitaph is gonna be something about the Natural Governing Party of Canada
 

Prax

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,755
Inheritance shouldn't be taxed because it has been already been tax paid

paying tax twice is stupid
Well, we probably need to make some exceptions/exemptions.
I am not sure, but probably inherited estate/assets of over something like $10 million should be taxed extra to discourage dynasties of the superwealthy from being too influential and to also recycle dead money into the economic system.

Interesting scenarios here: https://retirehappy.ca/estate-inheritance-tax/
"4. Stacy has a cottage at the lake that she inherited from her parents 22 years before she passed away. The cottage has been in the family for multiple generations and rumor has it that the land the cottage was built on was originally bought for less than $1000. When Stacy passed away at the age of 77, the cottage was deemed to have been sold for tax purposes for $850,000. When she inherited the cottage the value of the cottage was $725,000. Her parents would have paid for any capital gains prior to Stacy inheriting the property. Stacy's final tax return needs to show the $67,500 of taxable capital gains (50% of $850,000-$725,000).

5. The last example is for those that pass away with non-registered investments like stocks or mutual funds. Barry worked for the same company for 32 years and as a result held $325,000 worth of stock of the company he worked for. When Barry passed away, the stocks were deemed to have been sold for tax purposes. the adjusted cost base (ACB) of the shares were calculated to be $110,000. At death, Barry has $215,000 of capital gains of which 50% is taxable. Barry's final tax return must show $107,500 of taxable capital gains plus and dividends he would have received from the beginning of the calendar year."

Look how often taxes are paid for the same thing mainly due to appreciation in value? lol

Often if family members want to keep a legacy asset such as that cottage, they will have to find the extra money to pay the capital gains tax or else the property will be liquidated to pay it. Which is what life insurance is usually reccommended for.. but yeah! Fun problems.. not to have but to think about solving. Are the NDP or Greens going to ask for an extra 1-3% on top of this or make it 75% taxable?

e.g. for 75% taxable scenario and assuming ~30% marginal tax rate (i think this is a pretty low estimate for this scenario probably), instead of paying tax on 70k (50% of a 140k capital gain on real estate), you now have to pay on 105k (75% of a $140k capital gain), which would be something like $20k ballooning to $30k?
Or if it's a 3% extra on general capital gains, then $20k into ~$24k? (3% of 140k plus the regular 50% taxable? Is that the proposal?).
In my situation, since the properties are in Toronto, disregarding a major housing crash, the capital gains are going to be monstrous. Probably at least triple this amount? Someone's going to end up paying 100k to get anything unliquidated. lol
 
Last edited:
Oct 31, 2017
4,333
Unknown
Alberta has world leading human rights and environmental standards because federal laws like those brought in by the Liberals force them to. Otherwise Alberta Cons would make Alberta a world leader in conversion therapy, executions, industrial pollution, secret police and jailing of anti-O&G dissidents.
 
Last edited:
Oct 31, 2017
4,333
Unknown

Turnout is always good. If it carries through to election day it's going to be a great election. 🎊

Isn't lots of early voting usually an indicator of being sick of the status quo? At the same time, biggest voter group is now millenials, seeing whats happened in the states, cons being Republicans now....that can spur lots of voting too
Maybe it's satisfaction with the current government. Either way, it's safe to say it represents motivation and enthusiasm.
After checking statCan it doesn't appear that millennials are the biggest voting group. That's going with 1965-1980 for X, 1981-1996 for millennials, and 1997 - 2001 for Z. Maybe that claim is right though and I'm misreading. Where did you see that claim about millenials being the biggest voting group in Canada?

I see people saying this and I'm just sitting here like "???"

When was the last time a Liberal or Conservative party was ever competent? And here we are, spinning the wheel of fortune between Liberal and Conservative, while judging the NDP with a completely different and illogical set of standards.
The handing of the American administration during USMCA was very professional and competent. Taking in the Saudi girl fleeing persecution in her country. Expanding trade deals. Strong economy, job market and investment in Canada are signs of a competent government doing competent things on many levels. Human rights laws.

Most recently and importantly during the election, Trudeau and May showed up at the climate march in Montreal and spoke with Greta Thunberg. (Where was Singh? Oh yeah, he ran away clear across the country to avoid Montreal during the climate march and didn't greet Greta Thunberg. What a great representitive for Canada Singh would be, huh? People should be asking how real the NDP commitment to the environment given this example of behavior and how will they represent Canada on this file should be an serious question to ask, if climate change commitment is an important concern).

Then there are the straight forward words of Chrystia Freeland regarding democracy, Canada and the West in speech she delivered during acceptance of a foreign affairs award. It provides a window into some of her thinking.
You should read them. They're competent.


Tonight, I would like to speak about a challenge that affects us all: the weakening of the rules-based international order and the threat that resurgent authoritarianism poses to liberal democracy itself.

I would like to start on a personal note. In the late 1980s and 1990s, I studied and worked as a reporter in what was, first, the U.S.S.R. and, while I was living there, became independent Ukraine. In fact, I think some of my former bosses are here tonight.

My experience of watching from the inside as this vast, mighty authoritarian regime crumbled profoundly shaped my thinking.

It was a euphoric moment and one when it was tempting to imagine that liberal democracy was both inevitable and invulnerable. As Francis Fukuyama put it, we seemed to have reached "the end of history."

Fukuyama wasn't, of course, arguing that history had ground to a halt. Rather, he was saying that the half-century-long competition between liberalism and authoritarianism had been settled and that liberal democracy had won.

What a seductive argument!

Now, we harboured no illusions that institutions such as the WTO or the International Monetary Fund or the World Bank or the United Nations were perfect. Or that our own democracies at home—with their sausage-making methods of legislating and governing—were without flaw.

But there was a broad consensus that the Atlantic economies, plus Japan, led an international system of rules that had allowed our peoples to thrive and would surely continue to do so.

Critically, this was built as a system that other nations—emerging powers—could join. And join they have. The past 25 years have seen the rapid rise of the Global South and Asia—most prominently, China—as major economic powers in their own right. We created the G20—with Canadian leadership, I might add. Russia was invited into the G7, making it the G8, in 1998 and into the WTO in 2012. China has been a WTO member since 2001.

In Latin America, in the Caribbean, in Africa and in Asia, developing countries have joined these institutions and accepted their rules; and that has delivered ever-higher living standards to their people.

But although this was and remains a broadly positive evolution, with extraordinary gains in terms of reducing extreme poverty, lengthening life spans and decreasing infant mortality, one assumption about this global shift turned out to be wrong.

This was the idea that as authoritarian countries joined the global economy and grew rich, they would inevitably adopt Western political freedoms too. That has not always happened. Indeed, in recent years, some democracies have even gone in the other direction and slid into authoritarianism—notably and sadly Venezuela. And some countries that had embarked on the difficult journey from communism to democratic capitalism have moved backwards. The saddest example for me is Russia.

Even China, whose economic success in lifting hundreds of millions of people out of poverty is one of the great accomplishments of recent times, stands as a rebuke to our belief in the inevitability of liberal democracy.

And within the club of wealthy Western democracies, we're seeing homegrown anti-democratic movements on the rise. Whether comprising neo-Nazis, white supremacists, "incels," nativists or radical anti-globalists, such movements seek to undermine democracy from within.

Liberal democracy is also under assault from abroad. Authoritarian regimes are actively seeking to undermine us with sophisticated, well-financed propaganda and espionage operations. They seek to suborn smaller countries, those wavering between democracy and authoritarianism.

The idea that democracy could falter, or be overturned in places where it had previously flourished, may seem outlandish.

But other great civilizations have risen—and then fallen. It is hubris to think we will inevitably be different. Our prime minister likes to say, about our country, that Canada didn't happen by accident, and it won't continue without effort. The same can be said of democracy itself.

Let's set aside the malevolent actors for a moment. Why are our liberal democracies vulnerable at home?

Here's why. Angry populism thrives where the middle class is hollowed out. Where people are losing ground and losing hope—even as those at the very top are doing better than ever.

When people feel their economic future is in jeopardy, when they believe their children have fewer opportunities than they had in their youth, that's when people are vulnerable to the demagogue who scapegoats the outsider, the other—whether an immigrant at home or a foreign actor.

The fact is, middle-class working families aren't wrong to feel left behind. Median wages have been stagnating; jobs are becoming more precarious, pensions uncertain; housing, childcare and education harder to afford.

These are the wrenching human consequences—the growing pains, if you will—of the great transformative forces of the past 40 years: the technology revolution and globalization. Of the two, technology is having the greatest impact. But even free-traders like me need to recognize that globalization has contributed as well.

So what's the answer? I think we are agreed that it is not, as the Luddites unsuccessfully proposed at the start of the Industrial Revolution, to stop the march of technology. We all love our smartphones too much!

When it comes to trade, we need to introduce labour standards with real teeth, as Canada and the EU have done in our free trade agreement and as we [Canada, the United States and Mexico] are discussing as part of our ongoing modernization negotiations for NAFTA. It is long past time to bring the WTO up to date with the realities of 2018 and beyond. We need to seriously address non-tariff barriers to trade and forced technology transfers.

However, and overwhelmingly, the chief answer to the legitimate grievances of the middle class lies in domestic policy. The middle class and people working hard to join it need the security that comes from education in your youth, health care for your family, good jobs for your children, and dignity in your retirement. We need to think about what the jobs of the future for our citizens will be and ensure that those jobs will pay a living wage and that our people will have the skills to do them. Perhaps most importantly—and this is work that would benefit from international cooperation—we need to ensure that in a 21st century in which capital is global but social welfare is national, each of our countries has the durable tax base necessary to support the 99%.

But setting our own house in order is just one part of the struggle. The truth is that authoritarianism is on the march—and it is time for liberal democracy to fight back. To do that, we need to raise our game.

One device strongmen use to justify their rule is the Soviet trick of "whataboutism"—the strategy of false equivalency that holds that because democracies are inevitably imperfect they lack the moral authority to criticize authoritarian regimes. We heard this species of cynical rhetoric, for example, from the Venezuelan foreign minister at the Organization of American States meeting in Washington just last week. We must be smart enough to see through it.

It is possible, indeed necessary, for liberal democrats to acknowledge that our democracies aren't perfect. The record of my own country's relationship with Indigenous peoples, for instance, is one of tragic failure.

But admitting our mistakes doesn't discredit us. On the contrary, it is one of the things that make us who we are.

Authoritarianism is also often justified as a more efficient way of getting things done. No messy contested elections, no wrenching shift from one short-termist governing party to another, no troublesome judicial oversight, no time-consuming public consultation. How much more effective, the apologists argue, for a paramount leader with a long-term vision, unlimited power and permanent tenure to rule.

We need to resist this corrosive nonsense. We need to summon Yeats' oft-cited "passionate intensity" in the fight for liberal democracy and the international rules-based order that supports it.

Remember those great words at Gettysburg: "government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the Earth."

Preserving Lincoln's vision means striking back. It means resisting foreign efforts to hijack our democracies through cyber-meddling and propaganda. It means outshining the other models and encouraging those who are on the fence.

And it means governing with integrity. Facts matter. Truth matters. Competence and honesty, among elected leaders and in our public services, matter.

Now I'd like to speak directly to Canada's American friends and to my own many friends here in this room.

Let me begin by simply saying thank you.

For the past 70 years and more, America has been the leader of the free world. We Canadians have been proud to stand at your side and to have your back.

As your closest friend, ally and neighbour, we also understand that many Americans today are no longer certain that the rules-based international order—of which you were the principal architect and for which you wrote the biggest cheques—still benefits America.

We see this most plainly in the U.S. administration's tariffs on Canadian steel and aluminum imposed under a 232 national security provision.

We share the world's longest undefended border. Our soldiers have fought and died alongside yours in the First World War, in the Second World War, in Korea, in Afghanistan and in Iraq. The idea that we could pose a national security threat to you is more than absurd: it is hurtful.

The 232 tariffs introduced by the United States are illegal under WTO and NAFTA rules. They are protectionism, pure and simple. They are not a response to unfair actions by other countries that put American industry at a disadvantage.

They are a naked example of the United States putting its thumb on the scale, in violation of the very rules it helped to write.

Canada has no choice but to retaliate—with a measured, perfectly reciprocal, dollar-for-dollar response—and we will do so. We act in close collaboration with our like-minded partners in the EU and Mexico. They too are your allies, and they share our astonishment and our resolve.

No one will benefit from this beggar-thy-neighbor dispute. The price will be paid, in part, by American consumers and by American businesses.

The price will also be paid by those who believe that a rules-based system is something worth preserving. Since the end of the Second World War, we have built a system that promoted prosperity and prevented smaller and regional conflicts from turning into total wars. We've built a system that championed freedom and democracy over authoritarianism and oppression. Canada, for one, is going to stand up in defence of that system when that system is under attack. We will not escalate—and we will not back down.

We remember a time when the United States believed great international projects like the Marshall Plan or the reconstruction of Japan were the pathway to lasting peace, when America believed that its security and prosperity were bolstered by the security and prosperity of other nations—indeed, that America could only be truly safe and prosperous when its allies were too.

This vision—the Greatest Generation's vision—was crucially dependent on the rules-based international order and the postwar institutions built to maintain it. It was based upon the willingness of all, especially the strongest, to play by the rules and be bound by them. It depended on the greatest countries of the world giving up, collectively, on the idea that might made right.

Now, the Second World War was 70 years ago. It is reasonable to ask whether our grandparents' hard-won wisdom still applies today. I am certain that it does and for some new reasons.

After the devastation of the Second World War, the United States was the unquestioned colossus, accounting alone for half of the world's economy.

Today, the U.S. economy stands at just under a quarter of the world's. Together, the EU, Canada and Japan, your allies in the G7 and those beyond account for just a little bit more. China produces nearly 20% of the world's GDP, and in our lifetimes its economy is set to become the world's largest.

Now, that is not necessarily a bad thing. Americans, Canadians and Europeans are much wealthier and healthier and live longer than our grandparents did.

The rise of the rest has been a chapter in the story of our own increased prosperity. And it is only natural that the 85% of people who live outside the rich, industrialized West should over time account for a greater and growing share of the world's wealth.

But that shift leaves the Western liberal democracies with a dilemma. How shall we behave in a world we no longer dominate?

One answer is to give up on the rules-based international order, to give up on the Western alliance and to seek to survive in a Metternichian world defined not by common values, mutually agreed-upon rules and shared prosperity, but rather by a ruthless struggle between great powers governed solely by the narrow, short-term and mercantilist pursuit of self-interest.

Canada could never thrive in such a world. But you, still the world's largest economy, may be tempted.

That, of course, is your sovereign right. But allow me, as your friend, to make the case that America's security, amid the inexorable rise of the rest, lies in doubling down on an improved rules-based international order. It lies in fighting alongside traditional allies, like Canada, and alongside all of the younger democracies around the world—from the Americas to Africa to Asia to the former Soviet Union—who are so keen to join us and who yearn for leadership.

You may feel today that your size allows you to go mano-a-mano with your traditional adversaries and be guaranteed to win. But if history tells us one thing, it is that no one nation's pre-eminence is eternal.

That is why the far wiser path—and the more enduring one—is to strengthen our existing alliance of liberal democracies. To hold the door open to new friends, to countries that have their own troubled past, such as Tunisia, Senegal, Indonesia, Mexico, Botswana, Chile or Romania. To reform and renew the rules-based international order that we have built together. And in so doing to require that all states, whether democratic or not, play by common rules.

This is the difficult truth: as the West's relative might inevitably declines, now is the time when, more than ever, we must set aside the idea that might is right. Now is the time for us to plant our flag on the rule of law—so that the rising powers are induced to play by these rules, too.

To explain our faith in you, let me remind you of the city on the hill Ronald Reagan evoked in his farewell speech in 1989.

It was "a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, wind-swept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here."

This city—open to trade, open to immigrants—speaks to Canada's values too. Indeed, these are the values of liberal democracy. These values are under attack from outside our walls. Most corrosively, even inside the Shining City, some have begun to doubt them. My country, Canada, believes in these values. We are ready to defend them and the rules-based international order that unites all of the world's cities on the hill.

Our friends among the world's democracies—in Europe, in Asia, in Africa and here in the Americas—are shoulder-to-shoulder with us. We all know we will be strongest with America in our ranks—and indeed in the lead. But whatever this great country's choice will turn out to be, let me be clear that Canada knows where it stands and we will rise to the challenge.

Thank you.
 
Oct 27, 2017
17,436
I don't know if you can read much into the advance polling turn out either way. It's just naturally going up as more people realize it's way less stressful than going on voting day.
 

Hella

Member
Oct 27, 2017
23,397
I don't even want to imagine how differently the USMCA deal would look if a Conservative government had handled it. Freeland has done impeccable work preserving Canadian interests while dealing with the most dire global outlook in some time.

She saved us.
 
Oct 31, 2017
4,333
Unknown
indeed but the NDP thinks they can do better and wants to throw everything freeland worked on

USMCA also includes Mexico, but Mexico doesn't seem important enough to mention in their witless diatribe.
NDP want to go back into tariff territory for Canada. That was so beneficial and not at all harmful to the economy and that of our neighbour.
And who have they got to lead this new delegation against a now hostile government whose deal was just ripped up and is facing impeachment and other concerns and trade?
 

Hella

Member
Oct 27, 2017
23,397
indeed but the NDP thinks they can do better and wants to throw everything freeland worked on

Yeah, this stance really baffles me. I don't know how the NDP thinks we can possibly get a better deal than the one we have--as I understand things, USMCA was beyond an ideal outcome, considering the circumstances.
 

Silex

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,754
--Actually, speaking of.. I recently took over part of my parents' house in order to extend a mortgage so they could fix the house up (they retired now, have only OAS to live off of, so no real income, but this is at least better than they welfare they were on and I still have to pay for some of their bills lol--hopefully the Libs or whoever increasing their OAS/GIS will help them out some). This leads me to tecnically having two properties so.. definitely this will affect me if I try to sell too. :0
Don't mean to pry, but if your parents are retired and collecting OAS, are they not also receiving their CPP? Assuming that they were working in Canada, of course.
 

Tuorom

Member
Oct 30, 2017
10,900
Elsewhere I've seen the point made that when you see the NDP surge in the polls like this, it makes sense also to keep in mind, you likely weren't polled yourself. How many others who would prefer an NDP government also weren't polled? Even if the NDP can't form government, if they can take more seats, this seems like a good push to be making. The projection right now is a Liberal minority government with Cons very unlikely to win right?

I'm strongly considering voting for NDP this time rather than voting strategically. I'm reluctant to even come in here with this because of how this thread slants Liberal and some of the very strongly held views I've seen on this, but seeing these poll numbers rising, and being in a situation where personally, between Liberal and Conservative, that's a vote between the lesser of two undesirable parties. And why should I do that, when there's a party right there that actually embodies my beliefs much more strongly, and is growing in support?

I guess I kinda want to know what other NDP aligned people are planning to do here.
I voted NDP.
 

Prax

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,755
Don't mean to pry, but if your parents are retired and collecting OAS, are they not also receiving their CPP? Assuming that they were working in Canada, of course.
They never worked enough! lol So the CPP amount is quite low. I'd almost say negligible.

There were brief moments of time they were working, but it was either self-employed (dad) or for maybe just a few years total after being homemaker and raising us (mom). A lot of their life was on welfare, which makes it funny they are so anti-communism, but they also saw the Vietnamese Communist version of corruption first hand so.. I think they just like the "middle way" of having some handouts but not everything handed out that the Liberals offer.
 

Silex

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,754
They never worked enough! lol So the CPP amount is quite low. I'd almost say negligible.

There were brief moments of time they were working, but it was either self-employed (dad) or for maybe just a few years total after being homemaker and raising us (mom). A lot of their life was on welfare, which makes it funny they are so anti-communism, but they also saw the Vietnamese Communist version of corruption first hand so.. I think they just like the "middle way" of having some handouts but not everything handed out that the Liberals offer.
Ah, ok, that makes sense. Forgive my curiosity since I work in the CPP and OAS programs and just wanted to make sure your parents knew what they were entitled to. Cheers!
 

Deleted member 49179

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 30, 2018
4,140
Elsewhere I've seen the point made that when you see the NDP surge in the polls like this, it makes sense also to keep in mind, you likely weren't polled yourself. How many others who would prefer an NDP government also weren't polled? Even if the NDP can't form government, if they can take more seats, this seems like a good push to be making. The projection right now is a Liberal minority government with Cons very unlikely to win right?

I'm strongly considering voting for NDP this time rather than voting strategically. I'm reluctant to even come in here with this because of how this thread slants Liberal and some of the very strongly held views I've seen on this, but seeing these poll numbers rising, and being in a situation where personally, between Liberal and Conservative, that's a vote between the lesser of two undesirable parties. And why should I do that, when there's a party right there that actually embodies my beliefs much more strongly, and is growing in support?

I guess I kinda want to know what other NDP aligned people are planning to do here.

For what it's worth, for many years I've always voted NDP. This year I didn't. I voted Liberals, and it was by preference. It wasn't a strategic vote.
 

Prax

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,755
Ah, ok, that makes sense. Forgive my curiosity since I work in the CPP and OAS programs and just wanted to make sure your parents knew what they were entitled to. Cheers!
No problem! My sibs and I try to look for everything they are entitled to so their lives can be easier (also so we don't have to shoulder all the finances lol. I know a lot of families just eat misery because they don't even realize what is available to them or are somehow too proud?).

Thanks for looking out for them! :D

as an aside: hard enough for the average Canadian to navigate the system, but imagine me as eldest kid at age 10-12 constantly being handed official forms and letters from my parents because they don't understand english well and them berating me because "you're smart and know english so why don't you understand legal/tax/medical/welfare/whatever this thing is asking and translate to us or submit for us?!". Stressful!
 
Last edited:

Fuzzy

Completely non-threatening
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
18,127
Toronto
I want to see the receipts. That looks photoshopped or perspective manipulated to look like they're hands are touching. Give me an arieal shot.
A normal person's fingers would grip the other person's hand but the pic showing Scheer's fingers being straight doesn't mean it wasn't really him.
 

Prax

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,755
lol the NDP with its Eh-xit-like wishes. I think it's possibleeeee as a hypothetical to get a "better deal" with CUSMA, but not while Trump and that raving pit of snakes are around. We basically had to trick him and his team into it while Trudeau plays cute with Trump and Freeland's team goes hard with negotiations. I have no idea about the policy/foreign affairs team on Singh's side and I don't know if Singh will be able to charm-to-distract Trump quite as easily.

Trump is basically narcissistic personality disordered and is dazzled that Trudeau is a celebrity-politician-charmer that he fashions himself as (lol). Trump's racism and Singh's lower scale name recognition won't win as many points to elicit Trump's sucking up reflex.
 

Sapiens

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
1,044
lol the NDP with its Eh-xit-like wishes. I think it's possibleeeee as a hypothetical to get a "better deal" with CUSMA, but not while Trump and that raving pit of snakes are around. We basically had to trick him and his team into it while Trudeau plays cute with Trump and Freeland's team goes hard with negotiations. I have no idea about the policy/foreign affairs team on Singh's side and I don't know if Singh will be able to charm-to-distract Trump quite as easily.

Trump is basically narcissistic personality disordered and is dazzled that Trudeau is a celebrity-politician-charmer that he fashions himself as (lol). Trump's racism and Singh's lower scale name recognition won't win as many points to elicit Trump's sucking up reflex.

Freedland and Trudeau did as good a job as one could expect. That secured my vote. I'm not confident the NDP or the CPC would have done as well. Not at all.

Vote for the track record.
 

Faenix1

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,114
Canada
If you're voting NDP/Green, you're handing Andrew Scheer the keys to the country.

My riding is already heavily con, doesnt matter who you vote for. Family is going NDP, by the sounds of it.

With how bad they think we "need to get rid of Trudeau", I was concerned they'd fall in line with the general population and go Con.
 

Prax

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,755
Freedland and Trudeau did as good a job as one could expect. That secured my vote. I'm not confident the NDP or the CPC would have done as well. Not at all.

Vote for the track record.
This twitter comment on that NDP person being interviewed...
"She is the NDP Justice Critic, despite the fact she doesn't have a law degree and no legal background whatsoever "
........................................................
 

bremon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,852
Wouldn't that also depend on whether you make enough now vs when you draw down your RRSPs to make the difference too? But I guess at that age you'd just depend on the taxable for your main income to dilute the amount of taxes paid? /hatemath

...
OR I can just hold it forever and let that be an inheritance problem for someone else because it's in Toronto and I'd never be able to buy back in at a good location ever again at this rate lol.
The advantage of an RRSP is using pre-tax money. Even if your tax rate is the same now as retirement it's basically still advantageous to use an RRSP. I'd be curious to see a scenario where investing outside an RRSP works out better for a person; that scope is incredibly narrow.

Say your marginal tax rate is 25% (lowest bracket in Alberta). You invest $1000, and the market is doing well so in 6 years your money has doubled. You sell your investment, leaving you with $1000 in capital gain, $500 of which you pay 25% tax on. You now have $1900.

This same scenario in an RRSP nets you a refund for the tax you paid on your $1000, allowing you to invest $1250, having it double, then paying 25% tax on it when yoU get your money; leaving you in this scenario with $2000.

This is an example with the lowest tax bracket in my province, it gets more advantageous as you make more annual income because your tax return is that much larger. The lowest federal tax bracket is roughly 47k, if you're frugal enough to be investing nearly $1200 a month when you only clear about $3000 a month you've got things figured out.

As for divesting your shares from work, you would pay tax on 50% of that profit but then by putting it in your RRSP you take the full amount of the investment off of your gross income for the year netting you a tax return.

Your example of capital gains on a transfer of an estate is a perfect example of why life insurance can be a cornerstone of a financial plan. I admit that can put a person in a tough spot. Markets as ridiculous as Toronto and Vancouver exacerbate that problem.

I swear gutter's epitaph is gonna be something about the Natural Governing Party of Canada
Here lies the mascot of the LPC. A being full possessed of the spirit of Sunny Ways. The Ronald McDonald of the Natural Governing Party.

The headstone will have "a Canadian is a Canadian is a Canadian is a Canadian is" repeated as a border for its full length.
 

Shoot

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,531
Elsewhere I've seen the point made that when you see the NDP surge in the polls like this, it makes sense also to keep in mind, you likely weren't polled yourself. How many others who would prefer an NDP government also weren't polled? Even if the NDP can't form government, if they can take more seats, this seems like a good push to be making. The projection right now is a Liberal minority government with Cons very unlikely to win right?

I'm strongly considering voting for NDP this time rather than voting strategically. I'm reluctant to even come in here with this because of how this thread slants Liberal and some of the very strongly held views I've seen on this, but seeing these poll numbers rising, and being in a situation where personally, between Liberal and Conservative, that's a vote between the lesser of two undesirable parties. And why should I do that, when there's a party right there that actually embodies my beliefs much more strongly, and is growing in support?

I guess I kinda want to know what other NDP aligned people are planning to do here.
The fact is, in most ridings, your single vote does not matter. It is still worth voting but do not feel bad about voting with your heart.
If you're voting NDP/Green, you're handing Andrew Scheer the keys to the country.
I voted NDP last week.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.