Canadian radio stations are pulling "Baby, It's Cold Outside" from their holiday playlists

[Fhtagn]

The arguments here for not dropping the song from radio and store playlists don't hold any water, though they are interesting historical context.

That to find a line in the song inoffensive one has to be conversant with slang from the 1940s is reason enough to pull it from rotation; demanding people know that is a patently ludicrous request.

The line about the drink reads the opposite of how it used to.

The song reminds too many people of their own experiences being coerced in uncomfortable situations or worse.

To demand that everyone have a nuanced read of something so touchy is to lack empathy. And because the context here is stores and radio playlists, it really is "everyone" we are talking about, or as close to it as one gets in 2018.

 

[Mailbox]

So this Canadian Radio Station just used an important movement to advertise itself to everyone that cares about this issue.
Quite simple trick. I would have never heard about this station otherwise. Doesn't matter if you defend or attack their decision, whether the song is relevant or not, this Radio Station just found a way to get into the conversation and stay relevant by simply removing a song from the forties from its playlist and advertising it through PR, then just let the internet's endless debate do the rest.

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"I've never heard of CBC, they must be trying to stay relevant"

You kidding me?

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

Oh dear. This is as close to burning books as I've ever seen.

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Wat.

 

[dlauv]

Its original context is lost so all we have is the surface message broadcast to millions of people. In that sense, I get it.

I'm for education and I fear the death of nuance, but is it really worth putting time and money into educating other people about this song to combat the increasingly negative public opinion? By that, I mean a foreword or an afterword by the DJ. Or some TV special that will go largely ignored? The only way I feel people will come around to the song is if someone wants to remake the song: it will be some popstar with influence who can project the message of the song's original context.

 

[Deleted member 11426]

Just add a verse about explicit consent.

 

[Garjon]

It's ridiculous, You need to really read into the lyrics to find anything that can be interpreted as offensive. Considering how creepy some of the lyrics are in many very popular songs I've always found it weird how this song in particular is always singled out. What I think it does show is how powerful social media is in misinforming people. However, as a result of this misinformation, there are now survivors who actually do associate this song with what they experienced; if it is found that the song causes distress to some of their listeners (even if it shouldn't be the case) then the radio station may actually have a duty to remove it from their playlist.

 

[Deleted member 6582]

A lot of songs get creepy if you really listen to the lyrics. I'm not really sure what that says, songwriters are perverts? People don't generally listen to the lyrics outside the chorus? I don't think I'd miss this one in any case.

 

[MMarston]

Just add a verse about explicit consent.

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Actually, from the article

And two years ago, Minnesota couple Lydia Liza and Josiah Lemanski rewrote the lyrics to include lines about consent, such as a response to the woman's line "I ought to say no, no, no" with the man saying: "You reserve the right to say no."

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[Animus Vox]

So how would one interpret that song "I saw mommy kissing Santa Claus" in this day and age? The last line is something like "I'm going to tell Dad!"

 

[excelsiorlef]

Oh dear. This is as close to burning books as I've ever seen.
The only Christmas song I have an issue with is Fairytale of NY, just cos I don't like that word used in any context. Even then, I'm not THAT bothered that I'd call for the song to be banned.

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What? It's nothing like burning books. You can disagree with their decision but they are not doing burning books level actions

 

[Slayven]

Personally I think the only 2 christmas songs worth playing year after year is Mariah Carey and Santa Claus don't come to the Ghetto. The song was written in a different time, but just being a tradition doesn't mean shit should stay the same.

 

[y2kyle89]

So how would one interpret that song "I saw mommy kissing Santa Claus" in this day and age? The last line is something like "I'm going to tell Dad!"

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That the dad was dressed up as Santa Claus?

 

[Dook's Revenge]

What? It's nothing like burning books. You can disagree with their decision but they are not doing burning books level actions

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Izzard didn't say they were doing "burning books level actions."

 

[bionic77]

Very catchy song.

I regret when I actually paid attention to the lyrics instead of just enjoying the stupid fun.

Now I find it a little creepy.

I could still listen to it and remember the context of the times when it was written.

But its possible that women might see it differently leading to the song getting pulled.

 

[btkadams]

So this Canadian Radio Station just used an important movement to advertise itself to everyone that cares about this issue.
Quite simple trick. I would have never heard about this station otherwise. Doesn't matter if you defend or attack their decision, whether the song is relevant or not, this Radio Station just found a way to get into the conversation and stay relevant by simply removing a song from the forties from its playlist and advertising it through PR, then just let the internet's endless debate do the rest.

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Um...

Have people outside of Canada really not heard of CBC? It's essentially our BBC.

 

[Moppeh]

I get why they did it but I still think it is really silly. We should be able to enjoy remnants of the past while acknowledging that the content or the words are outdated or inappropriate. Though I enjoy old things, so maybe the majority of Canadians feel differently.

So this Canadian Radio Station just used an important movement to advertise itself to everyone that cares about this issue.
Quite simple trick. I would have never heard about this station otherwise. Doesn't matter if you defend or attack their decision, whether the song is relevant or not, this Radio Station just found a way to get into the conversation and stay relevant by simply removing a song from the forties from its playlist and advertising it through PR, then just let the internet's endless debate do the rest.

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Others have already replied to this but lmao, maybe you should google what you are talking about.

Um...

Have people outside of Canada really not heard of CBC? It's essentially our BBC.

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I could understand if he isn't from North America. But if he's American, he really should take some time and learn about his neighbours up north. I'm sure a large amount of Canadians could very easily name most American broadcasters.

 

[Dice]

]

Now ban "Wonderful Christmastime."

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Is that the kitschy Paul McCartney one because I love how trash it is... It's got lyric drama too?

Anyways, yay down with rapey lyrics

 

[Deleted member 135]

The arguments here for not dropping the song from radio and store playlists don't hold any water, though they are interesting historical context.

That to find a line in the song inoffensive one has to be conversant with slang from the 1940s is reason enough to pull it from rotation; demanding people know that is a patently ludicrous request.

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Its patently ludicrous to remove the song because of a misinterpreted line and completely missing the entire point of the song.

 

[fick]

It's a song about a woman weighing societal norms against her own urges.

She's coming up with reasons to stay the night with this dude.

No rape

 

[Eldy]

 

[Deleted member 18347]

Its original context is lost so all we have is the surface message broadcast to millions of people. In that sense, I get it.

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Yep.

I don't necessarily agree with it, but I understand why.

 

[Deleted member 2145]

someone should to rewrite it, keep the baby it's cold outside refrain, and then change everything else

 

[CloudWolf]

I'm for a total ban of all Christmas songs, except Fairytale of New York.

 

[legacyzero]

This is bonkers

 

[RHANITAN]

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perfect

 

[Garjon]

You need to really read into the lyrics to find anything that can be interpreted as offensive. Considering how creepy some of the lyrics are in many very popular songs I've always found it weird how this song in particular is always singled out. What I think it does show is how powerful social media is in misinforming people. However, as a result of this misinformation, there are now survivors who actually do associate this song with what they experienced; if it is found that the song causes distress to some of their listeners (even if it shouldn't be the case) then the radio station may actually have a duty to remove it from their playlist.

 

[Prattle]

Let it Snow Let it Snow Let it Snow is just as bad.

Man it doesn't show signs of stoppin'
And I brought some porn for watchin'
The lights are turned way down low
Let it snow, let it snow, let it snow

I mean bloody hell!

(The song in the OP is just flirting)

 

[BasilZero]

The hell man....that's my favorite song during the Christmas radio runs...

 

[Daniel Westlake]

I would argue even like a casual reading of the lyrics and understanding of societal norms from when it was produced would give you all the context you could possibly need.

 

[BlackJace]

Wasn't this song found out to be taken out of context and it's actually reinforcing consent while at the same time calling out gender double standards?
Ban what ever song you want to ban, but I thought there was already a lot of discussion surrounding the lyrics.

 

[bremon]

Baby It's Cold Outside is a piece of shit song; part of an unholy trio of Christmas songs I can't stand.

 

[Izzard]

What? It's nothing like burning books. You can disagree with their decision but they are not doing burning books level actions

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I didn't say it was that bad. We shouldn't be censoring history though. We learn from looking to the past. Banning it is not something I think we should be doing.

 

[Fhtagn]

Its patently ludicrous to remove the song because of a misinterpreted line and completely missing the entire point of the song.

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No, it's pantently not. It's an old song, and the slang no longer has the same meaning, it even has the opposite mean.

Just listen to yourself. There are hundreds of new holiday songs written every year. Why should we keep hearing the same dozen or so forever regardless of shifts in culture.

The point of playing holiday songs on the radio is to make people feel good about the holiday. So if a song is making some people uncomfortable, and provoking conversations like this one where people are calling each other stupid for liking or not liking this song, then the song should go.

You are free to play it at your own parties but you're missing the point of holiday radio if you think "the audience is missing the point so ignore their complaints" is a valid argument here.

 

[LudicrousSpeed]

Baby It's Cold Outside is more or less Rape Culture: The Song. I get the arguments about the original context, but the lesson of the song is "Hey men, no doesn't really mean no, it's just societal conditioning that you have to ignore and push through for the benefit of both of you". It's a great example of how puritanical norms about sex create incredibly harmful outcomes.

It's not like the song has to be verboten in all contexts or anything, but it definitely should not be presented as just "this is just fun Christmas music".

 

[Fhtagn]

I didn't say it was that bad. We shouldn't be censoring history though. We learn from looking to the past. Banning it is not something I think we should be doing.

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No one calls it censoring history or banning any given pop song when it tastes change and it stops getting played on the radio. There are thousands of songs that were once top 40 that don't get much or any airtime these days.

 

[Jade1962]

I don't agree with banning it but I've always noticed the lyrics in a lot of old songs come off kind of creepy but I've realized most people don't actually listen to lyrics. I guess growing up listening to rap causes me to actually listen to what the artist are saying. I will say claiming something is OK just because of the year it was released/happened is kind of flimsy.

 

[Precious Tritium]

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This is perfect

 

[Silex]

CBC is the biggest radio station in Canada. They didn't remove it to "stay relevant"

Rogers and Bell are also huge.

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Also, CBC radio is ad-free, so... 🤷‍♂️

 

[23qwerty]

Oh for fucks sake, not this again, didn't we figure this shit out a year or two ago.

 

[lunarworks]

I could understand if he isn't from North America. But if he's American, he really should take some time and learn about his neighbours up north. I'm sure a large amount of Canadians could very easily name most American broadcasters.

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Americans are more familiar with our private broadcasters, because they see their logos in the corner of pirated TV shows. :P

 

[Gaia Lanzer]

So how would one interpret that song "I saw mommy kissing Santa Claus" in this day and age? The last line is something like "I'm going to tell Dad!"

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I keep hearing the Jackson 5 version, and everytime little Michael says "I'm gonna tell Dad!", I'm like, "Uh, Michael, you really don't wanna tell Joe Jackson something that could possibly make him angry..." , and that's coming from him as a kid not knowing his dad is Santa, but knowing that his dad has a temper and is abusive. Hearin' that song NOW and knowing about the Jackson family, I can't help to go "Yeesh!" during that part.

 

[raYne_07]

My wife's been saying this song "sounds pretty rape-ish" for yeeaars..

Surprised it took this long, honestly.

 

[Gaia Lanzer]

I keep hearing the Jackson 5 version, and everytime little Michael says "I'm gonna tell Dad!", I'm like, "Uh, Michael, you really don't wanna tell Joe Jackson something that could possibly make him angry..." , and that's coming from him as a kid not knowing his dad is Santa, but knowing that his dad has a temper and is abusive. Hearin' that song NOW and knowing about the Jackson family, I can't help to go "Yeesh!" during that part.

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As for "Baby, It's Cold Outside", the melody (in music form) is nice, but I don't like repeaty songs were certain lyrics (in most cases, the title lyrics) are repeated so close after each other(like the end of each line of a verse, I'm fine with repeats in a chorus). It's why I dislike "I Heard The Bells on Christmas Day" (and I know it was originally a poem by Henry Wadsworth Longfellow, but that doesn't make the SONG any better).

EDIT: DAMMIT, I thought I edited my above post, not quoted myself!!!

 

[Quiksaver]

"I've never heard of CBC, they must be trying to stay relevant"

You kidding me?

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Um...

Have people outside of Canada really not heard of CBC? It's essentially our BBC.

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I get why they did it but I still think it is really silly. We should be able to enjoy remnants of the past while acknowledging that the content or the words are outdated or inappropriate. Though I enjoy old things, so maybe the majority of Canadians feel differently.



Others have already replied to this but lmao, maybe you should google what you are talking about.



I could understand if he isn't from North America. But if he's American, he really should take some time and learn about his neighbours up north. I'm sure a large amount of Canadians could very easily name most American broadcasters.

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Also, CBC radio is ad-free, so... 🤷‍♂️

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I apologize to my Canadian friends, but I had no idea CBC was your main broadcasting company, same as I don't expect anyone here to be aware of my own country's popular programming.
I have a lot of love for Canada and look forward to visiting someday. I'm glad to have learned something new in this thread.
Still, the board wouldn't be bothered to talk about it if CBC hadn't took this song out of its programming, so the fact that it raised my awareness on its existence was my entire point. Main broadcaster or not, its still increasingly hard to remain relevant in Radio nowadays with so many different options for media all around us all the time.

Last but not least, as a clarification of my particular stand on this subject, I am not a fan of christmas songs myself, never heard this particular one before, even if it sounds like its popular among North Americans. Coming from South America we find it strange to associate the holiday with snow/cold or whatever, since its hot as fuck at this time of the year. Living abroad has changed this perception a little bit, but I still find the snow songs weird. I'm sure there are many disgusting songs from the forties that no one would be even thinking about putting on a playlist, but there are no articles about it. Seems like a pointless riling up of a crowd. Again, this is an outsider's perspective on the subject, so please don't take it so seriously.

 

[Reala]

Do they still play Fairytale of New York?

 

[jontin]

Isnt that whole song about a woman who wants to stay with a man, but is worried about her reputation with the neighbors because Gender Double Standards? She comes up with excuses others could use against her, and he helps explain them away. In the end, they both consent and agree that yes, it IS cold outside and lets stay together. Fuck what everybody else thinks.

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You really nailed it.

I'd rather people who don't understand the song simply turn their radio off, rather than removing it entirely.

 

[Hasseigaku]

In the context of today, it sounds creepy---people shouldn't have to do research in order to be comfortable with a song.

So if it makes people uncomfortable, by all means remove it. It isn't like there aren't a billion other overplayed Christmas songs you can replace it with.

 

[Meauxse]

There's some history in this song summed up here:

http://imgur.com/gallery/RPbt2

TLDR, this is redonkulous

 

[kmfdmpig]

You really nailed it.

I'd rather people who don't understand the song simply turn their radio off, rather than removing it entirely.

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I agree. Banning things to placate the ignorant who misunderstand is a losing strategy.

 

[Kolibri]

Good, let's not normalize that stuff

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That stuff? You mean sex?
Like others in this thread have already said: the woman in this song wants to stay the night and is trying to get a 'normal' reason to stay because she's worried what people might think of her.