Yeah, I keep hearing "everything Daigo does with this custom hitbox is possible on pad", but I don't have any confirmation.
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Capcom makes last minute decision to ban Daigo Umehara's hit-box controller at Combo Breaker tournament
- Thread starter Teh_Lurv
- Start date
People really need to look at this video. This gafrobox thing is bullshit, look how insane the shortcuts are.
There's precedent for that sort of ban from last-gen. Someone had a custom stick to get left--right block and that got banned. MVC3 I believe.
Question is how will they handle folks who don't advertise they have something like that, and just use it sneakily when needed?
At this point I'd say just standard sticks or standard pads should be legal (stuff like Fighting Commanders would be standard)- nothing with modded extra stuff outside of converters to be used on multiple pieces of hardware.
I'd rather have the best player win on merits and not input restrictions or worse bad gamepad designs that favor those spending time on the input. Most gamepads are crap in quality or taking inputs be it digital or analog inputs.
This makes me miffed considering how inputs are handled in other games in the genre or outside of it.
Thx for the explanation link these kinds of sticks are like magic for me and knowing more makes me excited.
Hey it is just a theory but it's not an elaborate one.
Brook/IST PS3/PS4 PCBs and Brook Universal Fighting Board are good PCBs to use for hitbox that will cover the current most popular consoles. These boards also have built in SOCD cleaners. Most modern hitboxes have a SOCD cleaner (this removes Simultaneous Opposite Cardinal Directions - ie. you can't press up and down at the same time)
Blanket ban on everything that isn't a freshly unboxed Victrix Pro FS, the official fightstick of the Capcom Pro Tour©
Multiple examples in this thread.
I'm questioning why you need a theory at all when, like, the explicit reasons for the decision are clear.
Hitboxes are indeed an all-round better input device than fightsticks imo, but clearly some standards need to be upheld.
Still waiting on this being possible on pad,stick, or normal hitbox.
The ban of this particular Hitbox is 100% justified.
Custom sticks are well ingrained into the scene, going back to custom MAS sticks. I really don't see them going away outside of edge cases like how the Brooks Audio PCB allows for these cheesy inputs on a hitbox config.
The way they do this in motorsports is that someone suspected of using cheats with their equipment can be subject to a teardown.
It has an SOCD cleaner. The behavior of the SOCD cleaner is left+right = whatever the last input was. Down+Up = Up, always.
There's been precedent. If the was no in game macro setting, people could wire 2 inputs to 1 button or programmable pad etc. like a tool assisted. The ban has always existed.
I agree that the explanation given here is sufficient on its own but I'm taking into account the general controversy over the things and I suspect there's more to it.
I'm not seeing any differences here. The only thing that matters is whether it has a SOCD cleaner or not (and it does), and even that doesn't matter in modern fighters.
Hitboxes are a straight up advantage. There's no denying it. It applies to any 2D fighter and it applies to games like Tekken as well.
Except for, y'know, the main benefit of the hitbox - which is pianoing directions.
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I have no access to SFV and I didn't play enough on keyboard to tell but I don't think this is standard behavior. 100s of hitbox users never banned, Daigo's socd is not standard.
Yes, the same one that SFV has at the software lvl. Reason why people say you can do what he does on pad, and keyboard.
True but capcom could do a better job of what inputs their fighter gaming are allowed to accept. After seeing how namco has rigged inputs in calibur there is no doubt the better dev in this genre can't step up.
Based on info around I think the daigo designs are light macro cheats.
People laughed at me way back when I said keyboards were better controllers for fighting games and yet here we are -.-'
Who's laughing now!
Who's laughing now!
They are cause I suck at fighting games
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So this is using the SFV input situation you described, where the game itself defaults to forward with two inputs. Does this work from all directions, though?
Some Monster Hunter players who suffered through The Claw should pick up fighting games if this is the case.
That hifight clip he linked indeed shows it working that way with charging 4 on the stick and tapping 6 on the dpad.
On a standard hitbox -- not the Gafro one Daigo is using -- this isn't possible because it defaults to neutral with 4 and 6 held.
So is a normal hitbox more fair for charging than a controller? lol
You're not wrong though, keyboards are super good for fighting games. Particularly 3D fighters.
Hell, there's a reason why mixboxes became all the rage (heh) for Tekken 7 players a year or so ago.
OP
OP
Capcom should just make everyone use one of these:
Level the playing field. :)
They are because they are. For movement/directional inputs, at least.
Hence, the Mixbox.
Hitbox has a cleaner that does L + R = neutral. PCB and SFV has L + R = last cardinal direction
With a keyboard, SFV will read left+right as relative forward not as neutral. There is not really such a thing as a standard with SOCD cleaning. The official hitbox's SOCD method is left+right = neutral, down+up = up. The Brooks Audio PCB behaves how I explained in the previous post, The Brooks Universal PCB defaults to left+right = neutral, but gives the option of last win, left+right = whatever was pressed last. 100s of hitbox users were never banned because nobody really cared. Furthermore, people keep mentioning daigo's flash kicking overheads, etc.--The SOCD cleaning method on official hitbox would allow him to do the exact same thing.
From the little I've seen from tournaments people either use bog standard controllers or fighting sticks. But of course I can't tell from afar if they're modified or not. Is it really that common?
The first thing I saw when I switched to the Tekken stream at Combo Breaker an hour ago was a guy playing on a hitbox
I was watching this video yesterday and was kind of floored. Daigo is too. (it's linked in the kotaku article - linking it here so more people see it)
Thanks for clarifying. So it is Capcom being dumb about this, this is just how SFV deals with inputs.
Theyy gonna ban him from pads too? Cuz some of his tech is doable via dpad plus thumbstick coupling. Saw multiple tweets of folks holding forward on dpad and back on thumbstick and popping fireballs like mad with guile. Believe it allowed for aa flashkick reacts too.
You were not wrong, I've been saying this since 2001. Everyone was laughing, but now you have Daigo using hitbox, lol.
Hitboxes have only achieved some momentum in Tekken relatively recently despite the fact that they have been generally regarded as a significantly advantageous control method for a long time. Most Western players still use a regular pad still while Korean and Japanese mostly use sticks.
You have to understand though, Tekken is an old, elitist community. Most of the scene refused to even use button binding until recently even though it's a feature in the game itself.
Hitboxes should be banned for being a blight on humanity anyway.
But a lot of this could be alleviated through better input handling. The game itself should know what to properly do with simultaneous inputs. Some of the examples I've seen in the alt. SOCD method inputs makes me think Capcom would be better off tightening input on the game overall and rid themselves of the ludicrous amount of input leniency their games have developed.
But a lot of this could be alleviated through better input handling. The game itself should know what to properly do with simultaneous inputs. Some of the examples I've seen in the alt. SOCD method inputs makes me think Capcom would be better off tightening input on the game overall and rid themselves of the ludicrous amount of input leniency their games have developed.
This is what I got out of all this when reading up. His flashkicks would be the same with a standard hitbox or the one he uses.
I mean, if it gives an unfair advantage, then I fully understand banning it. Don't know enough about high level play to know if it does or not.
Best solution would be Capcom providing all equipment (arcade sticks, controllers, and hit-boxes), but that's probably super expensive.
Best solution would be Capcom providing all equipment (arcade sticks, controllers, and hit-boxes), but that's probably super expensive.
A fairly common yet simple mod, is increasing the weight of spring in the lever. Or adding a larger actuator. (Or both). This makes the stick less loose and more responsive.
EDIT: Even swapping out a square gate for an octagonal gate would be considered a mod.
Yeah, all this quibbling over the SOCD method is completely irrelevant. It doesn't change the fact that you still don't have to deal with the frames it takes for a stick to travel through neutral. It also doesn't change the fact that you can piano directions - allowing for supersonic dashes.
So, from what I'm parsing in this thread, is it fair to say that Capcom is Big Mad that SFV isn't doing at a software level whatever the official Hitbox is doing at a hardware level and as a result banning hitboxes that don't conform to the way the official Hitbox handles inputs?
What rule is that? Never heard of that. You cant have macros (one button doing more than 1 input) but youre free to use a stick with 20 thousand light kick buttons on it if youre so inclined.
Capcom should just make everyone use one of these:
Level the playing field. :)
Hey.
Is that a pun.
SFV is, just with a different method. No game in recent years accepts simultaneous opposing cardinal directions as individual, valid inputs. That's why you can't do things like charging back while walking forward or absolute guard cross ups.
No. The SOCD cleaner makes no difference. Daigo could do the same things on a regular hitbox. The only difference here is that these videos have gone viral and Capcom has caught on and flipped out.
Thats a symptom of a lever being less efficient, not cheating. Everyone agrees a hitbox is mechanically superior. That doesnt make it cheating.
They have been available and used in tournies for 10 years. This is just a scare wave because its Daigo.
