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Capcom makes last minute decision to ban Daigo Umehara's hit-box controller at Combo Breaker tournament
- Thread starter Teh_Lurv
- Start date
Use two fingers. Quickly flick both of them across an arcade button and you get get two directional inputs out in two frames.
Thread sum up
Standard HitBoxes are legal for CPT tournament play.
The custom one Daigo is using isn't legal for CPT tournament play.
Daigo doesn't care if it is banned, he'll just use a stick.
Standard HitBoxes are legal for CPT tournament play.
The custom one Daigo is using isn't legal for CPT tournament play.
Daigo doesn't care if it is banned, he'll just use a stick.
Like I go into button config, i set the extra 2 buttons to like throw and vt. Daigo doesn't need to go into button config but he also get vskill, 3P, 3K their own button.
Not saying he does, saying I can see if that might be a reason.
So he could literally just switch to any other "non-banned" hitbox and still be doing whatever's got everyone scared(the flashkick and CA stuff presumably) about his current hitbox tech?
I've ALWAYS said hitboxes should be banned when they first came out years ago ESPECIALLY for when it started to become popular during MvC3 days because you could block high/lows and left/right with precise timings vs a stick. Now they are figuring out that they are advantageous than arcade sticks WHICH the games are based off of. The problem back then was there were, no top tier players were using them so it wasn't a problem. Even though Daigos is modded to circumvent something, It's now clear it has advantages and ruins the spirit of the arcade.
They should let him go for this tournament since they ALREADY gave him the go ahead and reevaluate now that a top tier player is using it. It's clear there are advantages now that he's came up with the tech and it's going viral. Just watching Guile hold LEFT then hit Right Right in a piano causes nearly an instant Super which isn't normally possible on stick
They should let him go for this tournament since they ALREADY gave him the go ahead and reevaluate now that a top tier player is using it. It's clear there are advantages now that he's came up with the tech and it's going viral. Just watching Guile hold LEFT then hit Right Right in a piano causes nearly an instant Super which isn't normally possible on stick
It's not like "OMG this erases all skill" or anything but this is legit scary shit. There's no way a pad/stick could compete with someone who rarely has to stop blocking lol. This is on some Mortal Kombat block button bullshit.
Pretty common. The only thing you can't do is have hardware programmable features not supported by in-game menu. So no turbo, no hardware macros, no programmable inputs like Cronusmax etc. Heck you can open your DS4, replace the d-pad with individual buttons and use that like hitbox if you want.
FGC been dealing with keyboard players for like 15 years. This isn't new.
The only thing he wouldn't be able to do, by default, is hold back and double tap forward for super. He'd still be able to do the fast dashes (he'd need to let go of back, however), he'd still be able to do the EX Flash Kick whiff punishes, really deep flash kick AA, Flash Kicking overheads. Everything Flash Kick related is untouched by playing on the official hitbox.
And it's worth noting that none of the stuff Daigo's been showcasing on his stream is actually new. The super thing was told to him in chat and all of the other stuff is just standard hitbox technique that people have been doing on hitbox for a decade.
You can't press them at the same time unless you have an extra appendage or awkward method of holding the controller lol
This isn't about keyboards/hitboxes, Daigo's particular hitbox was customized by Gafro to include modification that does not appear in the standard one.
I wonder how something like this could even be enforced across the board. What's stopping someone from throwing one of those Brook PCBs into a Hitbox themselves? Not like TOs/Staff can realistically check everyone's controllers.
It wasn't customized to be that way. Gafro just makes them and that's the pcb he stocks to put in them. It's probably not even anything he actively thought about. The Brooks Audio PS4 PCB is significantly cheaper than the Universal PCB and we're all aware that absolutely no one in the Japanese FGC cares about playing fighting games on Xbox One, so there was no need for the extra expense.
Im with you on the mod part, i'm still trying to figure out Gafro box though.
EVO founder and event runner Tom Cannon says he'll let the hitboxes rock.
https://twitter.com/ProtomCannon/status/1131974017663901696
https://twitter.com/ProtomCannon/status/1131974017663901696
On pad you can get the benefit of having back to block always active while moving forward?
You cannot do that on Daigo/Gafro's hitbox, or any other hitbox, or any other controller period. SFV prevents that on a software level.
Ah, now I see. I was wondering if his had a SOCD Cleaner or not.
Dude, I just watched a video linked in a Kotakua article where Daigo himself demonstrates exactly that.
I love Tom but that doesn't automatically mean they will rock at Evo. He doesn't say "He'll let hitboxes rock" he says "in his opinion" let them rock. Also to be clear no one is saying ban hitboxes, what's in question is this particular Gafro one, and I'm not yet sure how I feel about it I'll have to hear more from the community. Whether or not this modification will rock at EVO will come down to the Cannons, Wiz and of most importantly Capcom as they have say with it being a CPT event.
What you saw a video of was Daigo walking forward and releasing forward to block extremely quickly. He is not able to simply walk forward and block simultaneously. And what he showed in the video, you'd also be able to do on a pad.
Holy shit. I didn't even think of Tekken. KBDs are gonna be so clean on that fuckin thang.
From personal experience it is andits a thing of beauty. Just frames on player 1 side are also super easy. Its also nothing new that community still prefer their bat sticks.
hitbox basically allows you to perform everything faster, and cleaner. Less chance of dropped inputs or execution errors.
As repeatedly noted, the eccentricities of the PCB in Daigo's hitbox have nothing to do with the tech he's showing off. You can do it on a regular hitbox. People have known that you can do this sort of stuff on a regular hitbox for years. The only difference now is that it happens to be Daigo who's doing it, and the videos have gone viral.
And no, a keyboard and/or pad are not the same thing as a hitbox. You cannot move through neutral as quickly on a pad and you cannot double-tap on a keyboard.
In addition to the previous video, Aris had some additional things to say 7 years ago:
This would mean banning the change of square or octo gates, or added weights, or Sanwa/Seimitsu button differences, or adding material to the bottom of your stick to prevent it from sliding, etc. It's not feasible.
That doesn't change the fact that they're banning that particular Gafro Hitbox and not a blanket ban to all Hitboxes. If they had an issue with the Hitbox method itself, they would have banned it overall and not just that type.
If they want to control how players feed the game inputs, they should patch the game to receive inputs differently instead of banning controllers which remove physical barriers of play.
#FreeDaigo
#FreeDaigo
You can skip neutral on anything that isnt lever based (any pad with separate buttons or any controller that you can remap directions to a button or any pad tgat accept directions from multiple different dpads/joystick like the ps4 pad). Double tap and pianoing is not grounds for bans lol.
Is that what I said? No.
I said you have access to block while moving forward. On a stick there is delay in switching directions and that cost in time in switching allows certain moves to catch you before block is active. With this hitbox variant Daigo is specifically doing the following:
While he has to release forward button the time to release is basically nothing. That is a big problem but I only wanted to know if this was also doable on pad which you attest to and I'll take your word on it but I strongly suspect there are still big differences in experience. Personally I've been interested in getting a hitbox myself and even knowing now that what a hitbox can do can be achieved with a good pad still feels like there are tradeoffs involved. I do not find gamepads in fighting games to be as comfortable as keyboards or sticks. Their tiny size, and high chance to input direction wrong with a thumbstick is a big negative. on top of all that I'm assuming I have to find a pad with directional inputs with independent buttons instead of the circular ring as the base. Those types aren't common aside from joycons and the joycon buttons are really stiff.
Finding a good hitbox seems to be way easier than fidning a good gamepad.
Again, this comes down to what you're personally comfortable with, and not the actual control method. Players left and right are winning majors playing on a standard PS4 game pad.
Right, but because of how the d-pad is constructed, you can't transition from opposing direction as quickly as you can on two arcade buttons to take advantage of the lack of a neutral. I'm not arguing for them to be banned., but they do offer a demonstrable advantage. I'm more of a Tekken player than an SF player, but the ability to piano a direction is a huge deal in Tekken due to the prevalence of iWR moves. Flawless shining wizards and iWS2s are absolutely zero problem on a hitbox and look almost like a bot playing.
If his box is special, then ban it. But hitboxes in general should be fair game, just like people using keyboards, arcade sticks, or controllers should be fair game.
EVEN IN SMASH.
This is all shit that can help a person either join the community or mitigate repetitive strain injuries while playing, and e-sports that don't allow for devices to maintain the health of its participants shouldn't be trying to be a sport.
EVEN IN SMASH.
This is all shit that can help a person either join the community or mitigate repetitive strain injuries while playing, and e-sports that don't allow for devices to maintain the health of its participants shouldn't be trying to be a sport.
It's not that awkward. Just hold it with your thumb under the pad and your index and middle fingers on the buttons. I've seen many pad players use a similar setup for the face buttons.
Just tested it out on SF30th, and neither A3 or 3S register a forward input when holding back at the same time. You can still do charge motions faster than on stick and probably pad, though.
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My understanding is that that's exactly what a "hitbox" is.
Basically a keyboard (with up/ down/ left/ right arrows naturally)
They do offer an advantage, they are mechanically superior to a lever. The point of contention is that making a better input device does not equal cheating. The guy is still doing the same number of inputs.
That and some folks will still prefer other controllers, and more power to them.
You can now press left and right at the same time, how do you do anything else with your fingers like that? That's incredibly awkward for dpad inputs. You'd have to be constantly switching between the two different holds, which defeats much of the purpose.
You just need two fingers to do all the motions for a charge character (aside from Guile's OG super input), so you can use that grip for the entirety of the round. I wouldn't recommend the control method myself because the Joycon wasn't designed for it, but it can work.
I'd say Capcom doesn't need to do anything, but since they've already done something (dumb) they need to specify and announce what is and is not "in the spirit" of the game, with regards to controllers.