-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
-
We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
Capcom makes last minute decision to ban Daigo Umehara's hit-box controller at Combo Breaker tournament
- Thread starter Teh_Lurv
- Start date
well if you bothered reading the post there really isn't any reason for it getting banned. street fighter 5 doesn't accept dual left and right inputs so what's the big deal? would be funny if daigo skipped the tournament.
I could see if, for moves that require passing through neutral, which most people seem most concerned about, if there was a "minimum number of frames to execute", where doing an input "unreasonably" fast would slow down the windup animation by a number of frames to catch it up to the minimum frames to execute. I would hate to see "you have to input slower or it doesn't register" or "your character won't respond until a minimum has been met" though.
Someone tell me if i'm summing this up correctly. Daigo's hit box corrects SOCD by making L + R = second input. Standard hit boxes are L + R = neutral, so CPT banned Daigo's particular hitbox. HOWEVER, the coding in SFV make it so L + R = forward, which would allow Daigo to do the same thing on a normal hitbox as well? Or would the SOCD on a normal hitbox override they way SFV reads the inputs?
Also, I know hitboxes have been largely tournament legal for a while, but was there ever rules regarding how SOCD cleansers have to work? That is, has this been fine up until now and the attention Daigo gets is the only reason there is a problem?
Also, I know hitboxes have been largely tournament legal for a while, but was there ever rules regarding how SOCD cleansers have to work? That is, has this been fine up until now and the attention Daigo gets is the only reason there is a problem?
The SOCD cleaner on a normal hitbox happens before SFV gets an input, so it would override the way SFV reads the inputs. There's never been a rule for how SOCD cleaners have to work other than existing to prevent abuse in older games that read all directional inputs simultaneously. So this has all been fine up until now and it's only because Daigo's videos are blowing up that people at large suddenly have a problem.
The socd on the controller has precedence over the software so on a standard hitbox l+r = neutral in sfv, overriding the software. Not sure about the specifics of the socd rules.
No, that's double tapping. Pianoing is pressing the buttons in order very quickly, I don't know how to explain it properly but let's say this is the layout of your 6-button stick:
LP MP HP
LK MK HK
You'd press HP MP LP in quick succession, for example, by pressing them like you'd press keays on a piano.
...Ah, I get it. Thanks for making the distinction more apparent.
So what happens if someone re-wires the last two buttons on their stick to Dpad L,R and uses Analog mode for the Joystick.
They will still have access to these shortcuts , but are not really breaking any Rules. Because Analog and DPad movement is available on pad as well.
They will still have access to these shortcuts , but are not really breaking any Rules. Because Analog and DPad movement is available on pad as well.
Capcom probably made the right choice here. A left and right input should result in a neutral as that's the standard that most hit boxes use for horizontal movements. Vertical is a different story, though.
Capcom will probably need to make clear rules on what controller mods are or are not appropriate for future tournaments.
Capcom will probably need to make clear rules on what controller mods are or are not appropriate for future tournaments.
The problem I have with this is that arcade sticks has been boasted as the advanced way to play fighting games, much like steering wheel setups for racing games, now there's a better way and capcom is banning it? As a controller player, this seems wrong. You deal with it or upgrade! Let people play on what they want to as long as it's not some kind of hack cheating. Just because you can't do something on a fight stick should be grounds for banning. You can probably do something on a controller dpad that you can't as well on a fight stick because of travel time too, what then?
For SFV Currently Sticks are the most inferior device.
The Tier list would be
S tier
Hitbox ( with L+R == Last pressed button )
Keyboard
A Tier
Pad
Hitbox ( with L+R == Neutral )
B Tier
Arcade Stick
C Tier
Err.. Racing Wheel ?
Wow that's interesting, for the record I'd like to classify Steam Controller as C Tier. It's the one I'm stuck with right now. It's ok, but not as good as a physical Dpad, though I do configure it like a hitbox with a grip being Up and left, down, right on the touch pad, only so I don't make a mistake and hit Up with the touch.
It's not like I'm defending the decision, but it's also not a "big deal." Daigo himself barely cares. This has become a big discussion topic for a bunch of people who don't actually go to tournaments.
The FGC has always been a mess in terms of control input. They need to either let it fly or really nail down what they allow and what they don't. I own an unmodified Hitbox and it is the best way to play SF. Being able to anti air with a dragon punch from crouch by tapping two buttons while maintaining crouch is incredible.
Yea the reason for the change is because in previous SF's you needed ver precise button inputs for 1f links and hard to do combos. It was hard on pad to plink.
But in SFV combos are wayy easier and Pad/Hitbox are superior when it comes to movement.
Completely agree. Capcom needs to either come out and be clear.
Or update their ingame SOCD to handle all the various shortcuts from other devices.
They can't keep banning controllers on a case by case basis.
yeah in the fgc a lot of the time people don't care until a TO's friend gets beaten by someone using a different control and suddenly it's a huge deal. at least capcom were the ones who made the ruling.
On that note, did you get your $300 from the crooked lucebuceloosegoose?
Sticks have never been the 'best' input method. People play on stick both due to legacy/nostalgia reasons and due to the fact that, for a long time, if you wanted to play against the best in the world (i.e. in Korea or Japan), you HAD to play stick because the best players were playing in old-school arcades. This was especially true of Tekken up until Tag 2 or so.
Pads are objectively better than sticks for most games and hitboxes are objectively better than pads. It's simply a matter of hitboxes and pads not having to deal with the same range of movement as sticks - hence allowing for faster inputs.
I wish I knew this in the PS3 Street Fighter 4 days. Got a expensive stick and spent night and day trying to get used to it thinking it would make it easier to FADC super. This info is eye opening, I might just buy another sega genesis controller and make sure it's not a knock off this time.
Ok, I think I see now. With SF4 arcade sticks were more useful than the controller, Hit box still better, but SF5 Hit Box is amazing, and controller is great, but the arcade sticks aren't needed for the combos. I'm so glad this thread happened. Time for some mountain training with confidence.
Last edited:
Damn, Daigo out here taking PEDs. The game done changed.
Pads are arguably better than sticks for movement, since they require much less range of motion. Pad button layout is inferior to arcade controls, though. That's the whole reason hitboxes exist: arcade-style button layout with potentially easier movement.
Pads are arguably better than sticks for movement, since they require much less range of motion. Pad button layout is inferior to arcade controls, though. That's the whole reason hitboxes exist: arcade-style button layout with potentially easier movement.
Last edited:
Ultimately, it's a matter of comfort and preference. I prefer movement on a controller dpad, but I prefer motion inputs on a stick. And I prefer fightstick buttons over controller buttons, but I can live with either. So for some games, I prefer stick, others I prefer pad.
OP
OP
Do yourself a favor and get a model 2 Saturn controller. I used one for my first three months of SFV and they're still the best fighting game controller ever.
One of the big reasons I use a fight stick is because it's easier on my hands & wrists compared to a standard controller. I can play for hours on a stick in comfort whereas a controller would leave my hands sore and cramped.
On one hand, standing 720s would be pretty easy on a steering wheel.
Lol I read the op and got pissed until I saw that flash kick video lmao. Sucks but understandable.
I read that reddit post on his specific one, and I'm still unclear as to what makes his single special Hitbox uniquely bad. It mentions that there's less actuation time on the buttons compared to a stick. Is that not the case with all Hitboxes though...?
So much for my self made hit box lol.
Honestly though anyone can use a hitbox make a hitbox or buy a hitbox. It's the best button input for attacks and allows for faster mobility inputs than a stick or pad.
Technology has improved for better ways to play fighting games. I think it's silly to call it unfair if theres no reason other than legacy control scheme loyalty for everyone not converting to getting better gear for better performance. Just seems like folks are choosing to not go with the better device and punishing those who did for their own stubborn need to not see sticks and pads made obviously inferior by disruptive technology that's clearly allowing for more advanced play than ever before.
Evolve. I say stop holding players back. If theres a clear tool that players can advance techniques and meta with it should be used. Not like the controller guaranteed a win. Better play and reads are what matters. If it wasn't Daigo they would just smirk, go in and play. Hes great without it. Now theyre terrified. Maybe stopping and listening to what hes preaching and try learning what you could do with one instead.
Honestly though anyone can use a hitbox make a hitbox or buy a hitbox. It's the best button input for attacks and allows for faster mobility inputs than a stick or pad.
Technology has improved for better ways to play fighting games. I think it's silly to call it unfair if theres no reason other than legacy control scheme loyalty for everyone not converting to getting better gear for better performance. Just seems like folks are choosing to not go with the better device and punishing those who did for their own stubborn need to not see sticks and pads made obviously inferior by disruptive technology that's clearly allowing for more advanced play than ever before.
Evolve. I say stop holding players back. If theres a clear tool that players can advance techniques and meta with it should be used. Not like the controller guaranteed a win. Better play and reads are what matters. If it wasn't Daigo they would just smirk, go in and play. Hes great without it. Now theyre terrified. Maybe stopping and listening to what hes preaching and try learning what you could do with one instead.
Last edited:
inb4 racing wheel is banned because some grappler player bodied everyone with it.
Gotta say, this hitbox stuff is very fascinating to learn about. I'm sure if I tried one out, I would still be a scrub :(
People laugh, but we have a thread much bigger than this one showing why this comment was necessary.
Almost as if the controller doesn't make someone good ay fighting games 🤔
Last edited:
ITT: People discover that hitboxes are a thing and lost their shit
Unlike parries, which daigo used to scrub his way to an undeserved comeback.
Some of Daigo's (and Fuudo's) thoughts on the whole situation.
Apparently he brought his regular stick to the tournament not because of a potential gafrobox ban, but because playing on that thing was hurting his left hand lol. Fuudo feels that arcade sticks are outdated, but that the way the gafrobox works is questionable. They both agree that Hitboxes are definitely the best controller for fighting games, but need to be regulated better.
Apparently he brought his regular stick to the tournament not because of a potential gafrobox ban, but because playing on that thing was hurting his left hand lol. Fuudo feels that arcade sticks are outdated, but that the way the gafrobox works is questionable. They both agree that Hitboxes are definitely the best controller for fighting games, but need to be regulated better.
Last edited:
Almost everyone I've seen using a hitbox is using it, IMO, very wrong. Keeping their fingers relatively straight instead of curled and using their ring finger for left instead of their pinky. Putting their left hand under a ton of stress (which is why he's experiencing pain after prolonged sessions) by keeping their fingers stretched apart and using a finger that has very little independence instead of being able to keep their fingers and hand pretty relaxed.