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Teh_Lurv

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,094
Today marks the start of the 2019 Combo Breaker tournament event. Veteran FGC pro-player Daigo Umehara had recently begun training on a custom built hit-box and has taken to the controller so well, he had planned to compete with the hitbox at the tournament. For a pro-player who had professionally competed for the last twenty-five years using arcade sticks, this was a big announcement. Combo Breaker is a Capcom Pro Tour event, so aside from the financial rewards of the tournament itself, Pro Tour points are on the line for players to qualify for the Pro Tour finals at the end of this year. Daigo competing with a hit-box at this type of tournament is a huge endorsement for the hit-box controller.

Hit-box controllers have had a long-running controversy in the FGC and Smash communities over whether they provide players with an unfair advantage:

Hit box controllers are named for Hit Box, the company that first made them popular almost a decade ago. Instead of using a regular joystick, hit box peripherals handle directional inputs with the same buttons that perform attacks. This gives users a better handle on their movement, thanks to the high quality microswitches found in normal arcade stick buttons as well as an easier, faster way to execute complex inputs, like the Z-shaped Dragon Punch motion that is common in many fighting games.

The Smash community has had a hard time coming to grips with these box controllers and debate still rages on as to whether they are fair or make the game too easy compared to a traditional controller. Most of the wider fighting game community has accepted these controllers as legitimate competitive tools, some more begrudgingly than others, for years. That doesn't mean it was an easy journey, however.

Daigo announced earlier this week that he was cleared to participate in Combo Breaker with his hit-box controller. However just today, Capcom reversed their decision at the last minute:

UPDATE (05/24/19 12:00 pm): After further investigation into the matter alongside Combo Breaker director Rick Thiher, Capcom has decided to ban the use of the custom Gafro hit box during the official Street Fighter V competition this weekend. The company's statement also says that they will continue to research the hit box situation and, should anything like this arise in the future, default to the local organizer's rules when the Capcom Pro Tour guidelines aren't sufficient enough to settle the issue.


This week translated clips of Daigo's Twitch streams showing off hit-box only tech have been going viral. I wouldn't be surprised if Capcom noticed these videos and got spooked. Here is one example:


Edit: If you don't/can't watch the video or unsure what the big deal is, Daigo is showing off how you can execute a Flash Kick without the 3-6 frame delay it takes to move from down-to-up on a traditional arcade stick. It allows for Flash Kick anti-airs in specific situations it would be difficult to pull off using a stick.


What does ERA think? Capcom acting with prudence or haste banning Daigo's hit-box controller?


EDIT #2: Capcom's statement regarding controller usage at CPT events:

 
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Dest

Has seen more 10s than EA ever will
Coward
Jun 4, 2018
14,038
Work
Capcom should patch/fix the game, not ban a controller that still requires manual input. Bullshit, get outta here Capcom.
 

Mr. X

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,495
Capcom being dumb. It's not the hitbox fault.

Edit: ok it's not a hitbox ban, it's how Daigo made his. Capcom being smart.
 

The_R3medy

Member
Jan 22, 2018
2,840
Wisconsin
This is the first I've ever heard of a controller like that. It's genuinely fascinating, though I can understand Capcom banning it at least in the near term.

Maybe more testing could be done by Capcom themselves and they can give results based on their findings and go from there with a decision to allow it or not?
 

Ebnas

Member
May 15, 2019
366
If tech exists that can only be accomplished using certain hardware, then I think there is a legitimate argument for taking action against it. The point of FG tournaments is to test knowledge and reflex, not pit hardware vs. hardware. That part should probably be as universal as reasonably possible.
 

DanteMenethil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,054
This is the first I've ever heard of a controller like that. It's genuinely fascinating, though I can understand Capcom banning it at least in the near term.

Maybe more testing could be done by Capcom themselves and they can give results based on their findings and go from there with a decision to allow it or not?
Hitboxes have been here for 10 years and used in tournies. This is nothing new.

If tech exists that can only be accomplished using certain hardware, then I think there is a legitimate argument for taking action against it. The point of FG tournaments is to test knowledge and reflex, not pit hardware vs. hardware. That part should probably be as universal as reasonably possible.
Everything Daigo is doing can be done on pad. Theres no macros involved or anything.
 

FluxWaveZ

Persona Central
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
10,887
If tech exists that can only be accomplished using certain hardware, then I think there is a legitimate argument for taking action against it. The point of FG tournaments is to test knowledge and reflex, not pit hardware vs. hardware. That part should probably be as universal as reasonably possible.
Nah, it's also about the hardware. People play what they're most comfortable with. People play on pianos and guitars.
 

Paertan

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,386
They are common enough that the game should handle them. MvC3 had issues before a patch where you could block all direction by holding down and at the same time press both left and right. That got patched quite fast.
 

Hailinel

Shamed a mod for a tag
Member
Oct 27, 2017
35,527

Spaltazar

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,105
i have seen a tweet of hifight utilizing both the dpad and joystick on a pad to replicate the way you can do sonic booms on a hitbox tho that looked kinda uncomfortable.
 

Bhonar

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
6,066
wat is a Hitbox controller, can anyone explain technical?

is it a cheat machine??
 

Mr. X

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,495
If tech exists that can only be accomplished using certain hardware, then I think there is a legitimate argument for taking action against it. The point of FG tournaments is to test knowledge and reflex, not pit hardware vs. hardware. That part should probably be as universal as reasonably possible.
Hitbox is just a glorified custom keyboard. Each finger has a directional.
 

Spaltazar

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,105
wat is a Hitbox controller, can anyone explain technical?

is it a cheat machine??
quite literally a keyboard in a box with ergonomically button placement so that its able to be handled like a stick. the poor mans version of a hitbox is just some rando usb keyboard and learning to play fg on that

hitbox-ps360-sample.jpg
 

SweetVermouth

Banned
Mar 5, 2018
4,272
All controllers should be allowed as long as they don't use turbo buttons or macros. I don't agree with the ban.
EDIT:
After watching a video about how this can be used I changed my mind and I actually agree with the ban.
wat is a Hitbox controller, can anyone explain technical?
Imagine an arcade stick but the stick itself is replaced by 4 buttons which are being used for up/down/left/right
 
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Crayon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,580
Tough decision, but the right one imo. It's not uncommon for aesthetics to be carefully considered in spectator sports. It's entertainment, after all.

Of course, I think this has more to do with aesthetics then a competitive advantage.
 

Spaltazar

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,105
i wonder while we discuss this, how much leeway is there in terms of modifying your equipment in other competitive sports like soccer, tennis etc
 

chrisypoo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,457
I mean, isn't this kind of of equivalent to banning a high end keyboard in a Counter Strike tournament just for having extremely sensitive mechanical switches with high actuation points? Seems a bit silly to me.
 

SweetVermouth

Banned
Mar 5, 2018
4,272
How is a hitbox different from a controller with a good dpad in relation to movement inputs?
You can input left/right and up/down simultaneously on a hitbox which you can't do on a controller. This allows some weird shit in older fighting games, but newer ones don't have that problem because they're programmed to use various different input devices.
 

Tart Toter 9K

Member
Oct 25, 2017
397
wat is a Hitbox controller, can anyone explain technical?

is it a cheat machine??
It's a controller that replaces the arcade stick with buttons like so

Each red button is a direction on the stick meaning that you in theory can press two opposite directions at the same time.

I've always liked the idea of a hitbox, speaking as a person that loves to play 2d fighters on a computer keyboard that is.
 

Nacho

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,108
NYC
If tech exists that can only be accomplished using certain hardware, then I think there is a legitimate argument for taking action against it. The point of FG tournaments is to test knowledge and reflex, not pit hardware vs. hardware. That part should probably be as universal as reasonably possible.
My main esports experience with this overwatch so the best analogue Incan think of would be blizz allowing player to use a macro to perform quick 180s. It'd make characters like tracer or genji that regularly 180 that much more oppressive. So I can see apprehension towards this. But I don't completely understand I have to admit because from what I think I know, I'm surprised there's as many people supporting this device as there are.
 

DanteMenethil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,054
Check out this video for some quirks of hitbox that definitely violate the spirit of certain control inputs


They're making a reasonable call here, and it is not a blanket ban on all hitboxes.
Nothing in there you cant do with dpad + analog stick.

You can input left/right and up/down simultaneously on a hitbox which you can't do on a controller. This allows some weird shit in older fighting games, but newer ones don't have that problem because they're programmed to use various different input devices.
Not even a problem for old games for hitboxes with a socd and unless you get out of you way to solder it away any hitboxes from the past 10 years have it.
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,348
I kinda get why they did it. If they allowed modified controllers, how can you not be sure a player has something built in to give an unfair advantage?
 
OP
OP
Teh_Lurv

Teh_Lurv

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,094
Title is kinda misleading and should be changed

How so?

How is a hitbox different from a controller with a good dpad in relation to movement inputs?

Main difference is you can have a finger on each directional button rather than rocking a d-pad with your thumb, so you can potentially eliminate the time it takes your thumb to travel when performing d-pad motions. In fighting games where matches can be won or lost in 1/60th of a second, that's a big advantage.
 

eggs_

Member
Jan 10, 2018
274
My main esports experience with this overwatch so the best analogue Incan think of would be blizz allowing player to use a macro to perform quick 180s. It'd make characters like tracer or genji that regularly 180 that much more oppressive. So I can see apprehension towards this. But I don't completely understand I have to admit because from what I think I know, I'm surprised there's as many people supporting this device as there are.

Hitboxes don't use macros though, it's just mapping every input to individual buttons.

It's hard to make a parallel to FPS, since it already uses a keyboard, but I guess it'd be like if someone bound jump to a foot paddle, rather than the space bar.
 

Mr. X

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,495
Check out this video for some quirks of hitbox that definitely violate the spirit of certain control inputs


They're making a reasonable call here, and it is not a blanket ban on all hitboxes.
Yeah, this input where hold left, tap right = right instead of neutral is cheating IMO. most fighting games are programmed or should be especially now that -x and +x axis simultaneously = 0. Using hardware to circumvent is banned. Has been with any controller.

Hitbox/keyboard already has advantage of less time to go left to right, why even do this?

This is not like a in game button macro for easy 2 button dashes. This is like an extra button only you have for easy 2 button dashes.
 

SweetVermouth

Banned
Mar 5, 2018
4,272
Not even a problem for old games for hitboxes with a socd and unless you get out of you way to solder it away any hitboxes from the past 10 years have it.
Yes, but I wasn't sure if all hitboxes had an socd and there are people who make these themselves and don't add an socd. These could make problems in older games but as I said it's a non issue nowadays when the hitboxes and the games too feature socd. This is why I don't agree with the band.

I think this will only be a temporary ban though and they'll be tournament viable down the line.
 

Jaded Alyx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
35,351
How is a hitbox different from a controller with a good dpad in relation to movement inputs?
Simple example (that Daigo himself pointed out):

Guile's flash kick: to perform this on a pad or stick, you have to hold Down, then let go, return to neutral, then go to Up and press Kick. Obviously, you do this as quick as possible, so its basically hold Down, then press Up and Kick.

On a Hitbox, you never have to let go of Down. You can just press the Up button and Kick while still holding Down, and the Flash Kick will come out.

Ultimately this means you can do a flash kick faster on a hitbox than on any stick or controller. This allows for Guile to counter an Overhead attack with a flash kick, whereas on a different controller, he may not have time to do so, and would have to simply block.