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Captain America: Civil War is a pretty toothless and inconsequential movie

Deleted member 21339

Deleted member 21339

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
13,691
- Battle at the airport is basically one long, drawn-out sparring match, ending with Rhodey getting shot out of the sky , but by film's end he's walking again and functionally the same as he was before. I mean, they couldn't even kill Rhodey? Why does he still need to be alive? Man, at least in BvS, Bruce genuinely wanted to fucking KILL Superman and almost succeeded.
- Fight between Cap/Tony/Bucky ends with them walking away virtually .. unscathed? Bucky gets his arm back, Cap writes Tony a letter nice letter apologizing for differing on the Accords and that if he needs him he'll be there. Then he just waltzes in and breaks out the rest of the team lol. I mean, couldn't Infinity War have showed Cap fighting to break them out or showed that they suffered in captivity for a while? There are no consequences for Cap's decision to refuse the Accords and it was hardly mentioned again in IW, except for him telling Ross to take a hike. So, what was the point of the Accords? It has no lasting impact on the larger narrative. And, of course, Cap and Tony will quickly put aside their differences in Endgame so what was the point? This movie didn't have the courage to make good on its title. It's pretty disposable in the larger MCU.
 
Kin5290

Kin5290

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,390
It breaks up the Avengers, which leads to them failing in Infinity war and half of all sapient life being wiped away. That's pretty consequential in my view.
 
-JD-

-JD-

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
3,472
As far as I know, the accords are still in effect and the heroes who refused to sign are still fugitives.
 
Dalek

Dalek

Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,962
There are more interesting consequences and drama than simply having character deaths.
 
StarsTurnCold

StarsTurnCold

Avenger
Apr 30, 2018
654
This had a impact on Ant-Man in his sequel, the fight caused Iron Man not to call Captain America in the beginning of Infinity War and lose track of Vision, drastically changing the course of the story, and so on. It had consequences.
 
Vincent Alexander

Vincent Alexander

Member
Oct 26, 2017
19,760
It doesn't help it ends with Cap sending Tony a message that is essentially, "hey dawg. When you need me, I'm here for you." It's a good movie, but yeah. The whole civil war aspect of it was weak as shit.
 
Aprikurt

Aprikurt

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 29, 2017
18,782
50% of the universe is dead maybe because the Avengers weren't a united front.

Yes it will all be fixed to a certain extent come Endgame being over, but god people are desperate to decry the MCU for lack of impact aren't they?

Also you can stop innocent freedom fighters being imprisoned in a superhuman gulag and still be mad at the guy who lied about your parents murder. You can be both.
 
Neece

Neece

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,201
OP, I think you should watch Ant Man and Wasp and Infinity War again. You seem to have missed something.
 
Buttchin-n-Bones

Buttchin-n-Bones

Actually knows the TOS
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,631
JB1981 said:
Isn't Thor and Hulk part of the Avengers. They were split off from the team and they had nothing to do with the Accords fallout.
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Team Cap and Team Stark are not in contact at the beginning, allowing Vision to get ambushed (and nerfed for the rest of the movie), Tony/Spiderman/Dr. Strange going off into space alone without backup, the Earth Avengers getting inaccurate appraisals of Thanos' threat level, etc. If they were all on the same page from minute 1 there'd be more co-ordination and a significantly greater challenge for Thanos to upend.
 
WellbornWarrior

WellbornWarrior

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
6,348
They all didn't want to kill each other, so no one dying is the logical outcome here.

Also the Accords caused Cap to become basically a criminal and going underground until the exceptional circumstances of Infinity War happened. That's the biggest kind of shake up you can do without killing anyone for the sake of killing him/her.
 
Bonefish

Bonefish

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,698
It's not only toothless but it pretends to be about heroes facing consequences for their actions but it's set in a world where the barest of lip service is paid to the actual people who live in it and the actual consequences are relegated to retconned death tolls that are just casually thrown around in order to justify what's going on.

It's peak cowardice as far as storytelling goes.
 
CloseTalker

CloseTalker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
30,658
OP essentially needs story to be told in the broadest possible strokes lol. If emotion and consequences aren't explicitly shown on screen, they simply don't exist
 
Dalek

Dalek

Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,962
The best part of Civil War for me besides Black Panther was Zemo. Not a super powered villain trying to take over the world, not an evil AI-a smart guy who never threw a punch but broke up the Avengers.
 
ace3skoot

ace3skoot

Member
Dec 3, 2018
815
the Russos explain in audio commentary that killing Rhodey would have made the end of the film about that tragedy, when the tragedy was about the break up of family and both sides living on dealing with the fallout. I sort of feel death is a bit of a cop out when it comes to stakes, the consequences are felt in infinity war when the divided heroes fail and the whole universe pays for it
 
Z-Beat

Z-Beat

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
31,849
JB1981 said:
I didn't see their failure in IW being a consequence of them being broken up.
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Because of Civil War, Wanda and Vision weren't warned because they were in hiding, leading to Vision getting wounded and unable to defend himself, and not enough firepower to stop The Maw.
 

Figgles

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
2,568
It's enjoyable, but "Civil War" is a stretch. More like "petty squabble." That probably doesn't work as a movie title though...
 
Slayven

Slayven

Never read a comic in his life
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
93,141
Dalek said:
The best part of Civil War for me besides Black Panther was Zemo. Not a super powered villain trying to take over the world, not an evil AI-a smart guy who never threw a punch but broke up the Avengers.
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One might say a regular Citizen pulled off a V
 
Neece

Neece

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,201
picklesthefirecat said:
What would that phone call change? Tony was shot off into space like 8 minutes later. They found out Thanos existed, came under attack, and were hurdled across the cosmos in the span of like 20 minutes.
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He's pointing out the reason they needed to make the call: Civil War. Had that not happened, all of the Avengers (minus Thor/Hulk) would have been there for the invasion in the first place. A united front stood a better chance than a fractured one.
 
Moppeh

Moppeh

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,538
Buttchin-n-Bones said:
Team Cap and Team Stark are not in contact at the beginning, allowing Vision to get ambushed (and nerfed for the rest of the movie), Tony/Spiderman/Dr. Strange going off into space alone without backup, the Earth Avengers getting inaccurate appraisals of Thanos' threat level, etc. If they were all on the same page from minute 1 there'd be more co-ordination and a significantly greater challenge for Thanos to upend.
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Yeah. That Wakanda fight would have gone better with a full powered Vision, Iron Man, Spider Man and Dr. Strange.


Even if Vision was still out of commission, the Avengers were still missing out on three really strong team members.
 
Xaszatm

Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,903
JB1981 said:
He is not captured, though. Cap and team save him.
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...and spends most of the movie severely injured and limited in his usefulness despite being an infinity stone android. Like, did you just not watch the movie or are ignoring this fact because it directly contradicts your main point about no consequences?
 
Z-Beat

Z-Beat

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
31,849
Dalek said:
The best part of Civil War for me besides Black Panther was Zemo. Not a super powered villain trying to take over the world, not an evil AI-a smart guy who never threw a punch but broke up the Avengers.
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Yet can't figure out how to drown a guy in a sink. Zemo he can't drown if his nose and mouth are above the edge of the sink
 
Vincent Alexander

Vincent Alexander

Member
Oct 26, 2017
19,760
Dalek said:
The best part of Civil War for me besides Black Panther was Zemo. Not a super powered villain trying to take over the world, not an evil AI-a smart guy who never threw a punch but broke up the Avengers.
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Zemo having a security tape out on a random road...a security tape that somehow zooms in in one cut, is the worst part of Civil War. This guy's plan worked because the writers wanted it to. That security footage being the turning point that rips them apart for good is still terrible for me.
 
KarmaCow

KarmaCow

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,161
It's definitely in the bottom tier of Marvel movies. Completely forgettable and the half assed moral quandry just make it worse.

Buttchin-n-Bones said:
Civil War is directly responsible for the Avengers being split in IW, leading to their loss
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The only way I can understand this is that maybe Vision wouldn't have been vulnerable to that incredible convenient debilitating stab if Civil War didn't happen.
 
picklesthefirecat

picklesthefirecat

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
125
Los Angeles, CA
-JD- said:
They have very fast jets and literally wizards that can teleport whole groups of people.
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What changes, man?
Neece said:
He's pointing out the reason they needed to make the call: Civil War. Had that not happened, all of the Avengers (minus Thor/Hulk) would have been there for the invasion in the first place. A united front stood a better chance than a fractured one.
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Man I really don't know how this changes anything. Let's say the entire Avengers team is there, ready and prepared, minus Thor and Hulk.

They're still going to Wakanda to separate the mind stone from Vision. They're still going to get wrecked by Thanos without Thor and Hulk.

What are they going to do differently when Thanos shows up?
 
OP
OP
Deleted member 21339

Deleted member 21339

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
13,691
Come now, we all know why Vision was debilitated and stabbed and it has nothing to do with the Avengers being broken up. He's an overpowered character so needed to be nerfed to raise the stakes.
 
Buttchin-n-Bones

Buttchin-n-Bones

Actually knows the TOS
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,631
Vincent Alexander said:
Zemo having a security tape out on a random road...a security tape that somehow zooms in in one cut, is the worst part of Civil War. This guy's plan worked because the writers wanted it to. That security footage being the turning point that rips them apart for good is still terrible for me.
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Howard was either heading to the Pentagon or some other government facility, makes sense for a camera to be there
 
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