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Captain America: Civil War is a pretty toothless and inconsequential movie

-JD-

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
2,303
#52
What, you want me to write fanfiction, here? The only thing that matters in relevance to this thread and what I said is that that scene of Tony not calling Steve was a consequence of Civil War's events. It doesn't effing matter if it wouldn't have helped or otherwise.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,471
#54
All the "Thanos would've won regardless" narrative proves is that the writers would have had to find other, potentially more contrived, reasons to sabotage a united Avengers front for Thanos to defeat. As it stands, they were separated and individually weaker as a result of Civil War.

When the OG Avengers win in Endgame, it'll be unequivocally proven that separating Cap and Iron Man was critical to their loss
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,273
#55
What changes, man?


Man I really don't know how this changes anything. Let's say the entire Avengers team is there, ready and prepared, minus Thor and Hulk.

They're still going to Wakanda to separate the mind stone from Vision. They're still going to get wrecked by Thanos without Thor and Hulk.

What are they going to do differently when Thanos shows up?
Now you're asking me to write a new movie. But if you want an asspull then how about if Civil War doesn't happen, Ant Man isn't on lockdown and is able to shrink inside Thanos' asshole and defeats him.

To the actual point of the thread regarding consequences

All the "Thanos would've won regardless" narrative proves is that the writers would have had to find other, potentially more contrived, reasons to sabotage a united Avengers front for Thanos to defeat. As it stands, they were separated and individually weaker as a result of Civil War.

When the OG Avengers win in Endgame, it'll be unequivocally proven that separating Cap and Iron Man was critical to their loss
This is what matters.
 
Oct 28, 2017
2,795
#56
Doctor Strange wouldn't have been kidnapped if the full team are there. They would even be able to utilize Time Stone properly.
 
OP
OP
JB1981
Oct 28, 2017
6,444
New Jersey
#58
What, you want me to write fanfiction, here? The only thing that matters in relevance to this thread and what I said is that that scene of Tony not calling Steve was a consequence of Civil War's events. It doesn't fucking matter if it wouldn't have helped or not.
First, how is that at all dramatically interesting? Tony can't make a phone call .... great. Second, my main issue is with the Accords. If Cap and the team are fugitives, why don't we see them being hunted by the governments of the world? How was Cap able to break the rest of the team out so easily? He just walked in to a super secret and heavily guarded location in the middle of the ocean somewhere? There's no weight behind the existence of the Accords.
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,720
#59
Rhodes is very much paralyzed and only walking with the aid of prosthetics.

Bucky doesn’t get his arm back in this movie and goes under for a couple of years to have his addled brain unscrambled.

The consequences for Cap’s squad going on the run is them being fugitives, but they’re still fugitives with Wakandan resources. You thinking they needed to be living in seedy hostels or something is a you problem. Even so, the Steve and Nat that appear in IW have clearly been further hardened by whatever they’ve gone through, while Wanda and Vision have had to creep around while trying to figure out their own shit. Only Sam seems relatively unaffected.

And the Avengers breaking up allows Thanos to kill half of the entire universe a couple years later.

So, nah lol

First, how is that at all dramatically interesting? Tony can't make a phone call .... great. Second, my main issue is with the Accords. If Cap and the team are fugitives, why don't we see them being hunted by the governments of the world? How was Cap able to break the rest of the team out so easily? He just walked in to a super secret and heavily guarded location in the middle of the ocean somewhere? There's no weight behind the existence of the Accords.
Because he’s Captain America and he has Wakandans backing him lol. There isn’t anything the rest of the world can do with that, which is part of the plot of Black Panther (the might of Wakanda vs. the world).
 
Oct 27, 2017
14,119
#60
Did ya'll read the screenplay or something or is what you're saying an indisputable fact that we're all supposed to believe?

In any case, that hesitation was enough.
He hesitated, then he was about to call, then the Black Order arrived. Whether he called in that moment wouldn't have mattered, Cap would have never been able to show up in time to help. And, once the Black Order showed up the whole world knew, including Cap.
 
Oct 26, 2017
5,772
#61
Howard was either heading to the Pentagon or some other government facility, makes sense for a camera to be there
It's a bit much for me. But let's say I buy it, fine. What about the ever-elusive Winter Solider, a guy who is a ghost, a legend, walking up to a security camera afterwards to shoot it, putting his face in plain view as much as possible. What the shit?! The whole moment drove me bonkers.
 
Nov 9, 2017
733
#62
What changes, man?


Man I really don't know how this changes anything. Let's say the entire Avengers team is there, ready and prepared, minus Thor and Hulk.

They're still going to Wakanda to separate the mind stone from Vision. They're still going to get wrecked by Thanos without Thor and Hulk.

What are they going to do differently when Thanos shows up?
They had to go to Belfast, New York, then Wakanda. Had they had vision in hand from the beginning they could've gotten him to Shuri hours before and destroyed the stone. Not to mention he probably wouldn't have spent the whole film injured and useless.
 
Oct 26, 2017
5,772
#63
First, how is that at all dramatically interesting? Tony can't make a phone call .... great. Second, my main issue is with the Accords. If Cap and the team are fugitives, why don't we see them being hunted by the governments of the world? How was Cap able to break the rest of the team out so easily? He just walked in to a super secret and heavily guarded location in the middle of the ocean somewhere? There's no weight behind the existence of the Accords.
The accords was a great idea and added some good opportunities for political commentary. Sadly, it is debated in one, maybe two scenes, then thrown out the window. The movie tried making everything so personal, which was fine, that it forgot to reel back in the real world ramifications of these accords by the end.
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,065
#65
They would have lost anyway. The mf controlled reality.
It seems reasonable that with the time and mind stones actually being able to be used against Thanos, they'd have had a much better chance than with both incapacitated almost immediately due to being very short handed in New York and vision sneaking around allowing them to be snuck up upon in the middle of Scotland, both as a result of civil war/the accords. Even if Thanos turned up there with the other 4, they'd have done significantly better at minimum.
 

Dan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,315
#66
User Warned: Unnecessary drive-by post.
Your threads are pretty disposable, OP, especially after your last Bladerunner travesty.
 

-JD-

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
2,303
#67
First, how is that at all dramatically interesting? Second, my main issue is with the Accords. If Cap and the team are fugitives, why don't we see them being hunted by the governments of the world? How is Cap able to break the rest of the team out so easily? He just walked in to a super secret and heavily guarded location in the middle of the ocean somewhere? There's no weight behind the existence of the Accords.
Why don't we have a montage of Cap's beard growing out while we're at it?
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,471
#68
First, how is that at all dramatically interesting? Tony can't make a phone call .... great. Second, my main issue is with the Accords. If Cap and the team are fugitives, why don't we see them being hunted by the governments of the world? How was Cap able to break the rest of the team out so easily? He just walked in to a super secret and heavily guarded location in the middle of the ocean somewhere? There's no weight behind the existence of the Accords.
The accords are a red herring in CW, anyways. They were irrelevant to Zemo's plans and can be considered a subplot within the movie, even though it's framed as the main driving force for the plot. If the accords never happened, CW would look different but Zemo's plan would have succeeded in some form or another.

It's a bit much for me. But let's say I buy it, fine. What about the ever-elusive Winter Solider, a guy who is a ghost, a legend, walking up to a security camera afterwards to shoot it, putting his face in plain view as much as possible. What the shit?! The whole moment drove me bonkers.
So what proof that Bucky killed the Starks would be believable to you?
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,065
#70
He hesitated, then he was about to call, then the Black Order arrived. Whether he called in that moment wouldn't have mattered, Cap would have never been able to show up in time to help. And, once the Black Order showed up the whole world knew, including Cap.
...Tony was going to make the call standing next to a person who could literally open a portal anywhere on the planet. If cap told him where he was, he'd have been there in seconds.
 

Neoxon

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,295
Houston, TX
#74
There are more interesting consequences and drama than simply having character deaths.
This

As the others have said, Civil War’s fallout led to Thanos’ victory in Infinity War. The Avengers & Guardians likely would have fared better on Titan had Cap been there (yeah, the plan that immobilized Thanos was Star-Lord’s, but Cap would have done a better job in talking Quill down from his emotional rage).
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,471
#76
A convenient framing for whom? Zemo's whole plan is tied up with the Accords because of what the Avengers did in Sokovia... creating ultron, operating unchecked etc.
A convenient frame for the movie's drama and emotional plot. The accords and Zemo are two separate results of Sokovia. They have moments of intersection but ultimately can occur independently. If Zemo was not involved at all, Bucky becomes irrelevant to the story and the finale doesn't happen. The entire story would differ greatly after Ross meets with the Avengers. If the accords don't happen, the Avengers scoop up Bucky and Zemo finds another way to get the information he wants.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,078
#77
Op about to run y'all circles moving goalposts as they please. Nothing you say to op will prove a point... Because they're going to make you answer something as if writers didn't create the story to play out exactly like this. It's irksome to see people argue movies this way.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,164
#79
All the "Thanos would've won regardless" narrative proves is that the writers would have had to find other, potentially more contrived, reasons to sabotage a united Avengers front for Thanos to defeat. As it stands, they were separated and individually weaker as a result of Civil War.

When the OG Avengers win in Endgame, it'll be unequivocally proven that separating Cap and Iron Man was critical to their loss
It'll be unequivocally proven wrong that Cap or Iron Man are of any consequence. It was the dreaded duo of Ant-Man and Hawkeye that truly would've turned that tide... not those other two bums.
 

Neoxon

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,295
Houston, TX
#81
What? Why.. how?
He’s a natural leader, he would have done a better job in getting the plan together & keeping everyone in check. Granted, Star-Lord’s plan almost worked until he screwed it up, but Cap likely would have done a better job in helping Quill calm down than Tony (not to excuse Quill’s fuck-up).
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,753
#88
It’s in the bottom half for me of the MCU. I still like it a lot, but there’s some things that bring it down for me. I guess the whole no stakes thing actually plays apart of it. Like they were just play fighting at an airport. Out of a million different locations to choose from to have the big battle, they chose a bland airport. That shit bugs me the most.
 
Oct 27, 2017
602
#89
Civil War was fairly engaging movie, even if its consequences were not very significant. Yeah, Captain America busting everyone out of prison and saying to Tony he'd be there if needed made for a 'soft' ending that people can justifiably find disappointing.

But then Infinity War was written in such a way as to keep everyone separated and able to be defeated in small groups, and so it could be said Civil War's minor consequences had much larger impacts. Let's say when the Black Order lands in NYC that Captain America's group is together with the rest. Yeah the Black Order will lose. But then Thanos will come to Earth with 4 stones after his minions fail, and then it becomes an open question if Thanos can defeat the unified Avengers group that has a full-power Vision and Doctor Strange who are possessing infinity stones, and Thor might even arrive on time with Stormbreaker. I'd give the edge to Thanos 60% to 40%.

Ultimately what I'm saying is that Civil War had minor consequences, but had they not happened I would say the combined Avengers would have a decent chance of stopping Thanos.
 
Nov 7, 2017
7,501
#93
Zemo having a security tape out on a random road...a security tape that somehow zooms in in one cut, is the worst part of Civil War. This guy's plan worked because the writers wanted it to. That security footage being the turning point that rips them apart for good is still terrible for me.
Yeah, that was very unrealistic
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,009
Appalachia
#94
I'm gonna have to re-watch Civil War because my biggest gripe was how inconsequential the accord seemed to be by the end, but folks on this site have made me realize its effects were felt on a broader scale than just one film. Curious if my view will shift.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,272
#95
Aren't the Accords and/or the Avengers breakup mentioned in every movie that came after that? Maybe individual scenes were inconsequential (as can be said for pretty much the entire MCU), but the overall events of the movie as a whole was definitely a big f'in deal.
 
Oct 30, 2017
1,225
#96
Damn you have spoiler mark that!



This line always bugged me... they were never friends. Coworkers that usually butted heads and worked together but never actual friends.
You have to assume there was a lot more to their relationship that took place between movies. At the very least we know they traipsed around the globe taking out Hydra bases for a while.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,945
#98
I didn't see their failure in IW being a consequence of them being broken up.
It really wasn't. Lol they even tell the general or whatever to fuck off in like less than a minute in Infinity War, which is understandable considering the threat at hand but it also renders that entire Civil War ending as kinda inconsequential and meaningless

But whatever I didnt care about civil wars ending anyways so I didn't mind. We got some cool action regardless