Now you're asking me to write a new movie. But if you want an asspull then how about if Civil War doesn't happen, Ant Man isn't on lockdown and is able to shrink inside Thanos' asshole and defeats him.What changes, man?
Man I really don't know how this changes anything. Let's say the entire Avengers team is there, ready and prepared, minus Thor and Hulk.
They're still going to Wakanda to separate the mind stone from Vision. They're still going to get wrecked by Thanos without Thor and Hulk.
What are they going to do differently when Thanos shows up?
All the "Thanos would've won regardless" narrative proves is that the writers would have had to find other, potentially more contrived, reasons to sabotage a united Avengers front for Thanos to defeat. As it stands, they were separated and individually weaker as a result of Civil War.
When the OG Avengers win in Endgame, it'll be unequivocally proven that separating Cap and Iron Man was critical to their loss
What, you want me to write fanfiction, here? The only thing that matters in relevance to this thread and what I said is that that scene of Tony not calling Steve was a consequence of Civil War's events. It doesn't fucking matter if it wouldn't have helped or not.
First, how is that at all dramatically interesting? Tony can't make a phone call .... great. Second, my main issue is with the Accords. If Cap and the team are fugitives, why don't we see them being hunted by the governments of the world? How was Cap able to break the rest of the team out so easily? He just walked in to a super secret and heavily guarded location in the middle of the ocean somewhere? There's no weight behind the existence of the Accords.
Did ya'll read the screenplay or something or is what you're saying an indisputable fact that we're all supposed to believe?
In any case, that hesitation was enough.
It's a bit much for me. But let's say I buy it, fine. What about the ever-elusive Winter Solider, a guy who is a ghost, a legend, walking up to a security camera afterwards to shoot it, putting his face in plain view as much as possible. What the shit?! The whole moment drove me bonkers.Howard was either heading to the Pentagon or some other government facility, makes sense for a camera to be there
What changes, man?
Man I really don't know how this changes anything. Let's say the entire Avengers team is there, ready and prepared, minus Thor and Hulk.
They're still going to Wakanda to separate the mind stone from Vision. They're still going to get wrecked by Thanos without Thor and Hulk.
What are they going to do differently when Thanos shows up?
The accords was a great idea and added some good opportunities for political commentary. Sadly, it is debated in one, maybe two scenes, then thrown out the window. The movie tried making everything so personal, which was fine, that it forgot to reel back in the real world ramifications of these accords by the end.First, how is that at all dramatically interesting? Tony can't make a phone call .... great. Second, my main issue is with the Accords. If Cap and the team are fugitives, why don't we see them being hunted by the governments of the world? How was Cap able to break the rest of the team out so easily? He just walked in to a super secret and heavily guarded location in the middle of the ocean somewhere? There's no weight behind the existence of the Accords.
First, how is that at all dramatically interesting? Second, my main issue is with the Accords. If Cap and the team are fugitives, why don't we see them being hunted by the governments of the world? How is Cap able to break the rest of the team out so easily? He just walked in to a super secret and heavily guarded location in the middle of the ocean somewhere? There's no weight behind the existence of the Accords.
First, how is that at all dramatically interesting? Tony can't make a phone call .... great. Second, my main issue is with the Accords. If Cap and the team are fugitives, why don't we see them being hunted by the governments of the world? How was Cap able to break the rest of the team out so easily? He just walked in to a super secret and heavily guarded location in the middle of the ocean somewhere? There's no weight behind the existence of the Accords.
It's a bit much for me. But let's say I buy it, fine. What about the ever-elusive Winter Solider, a guy who is a ghost, a legend, walking up to a security camera afterwards to shoot it, putting his face in plain view as much as possible. What the shit?! The whole moment drove me bonkers.
Then why are you here other than to shitpost?Your threads are pretty disposable, OP, especially after your last Bladerunner travesty.
That would make sense if the movie was called Captain America: Beard SoldierWhy don't we have a montage of Cap's beard growing out while we're at it?
He hesitated, then he was about to call, then the Black Order arrived. Whether he called in that moment wouldn't have mattered, Cap would have never been able to show up in time to help. And, once the Black Order showed up the whole world knew, including Cap.
You have to be kidding. The whole movie is about the Accords
No, they're not. They're a convenient framing. None of Zemo's plans require the accords to happen.
A convenient framing for whom? Zemo's whole plan is tied up with the Accords because of what the Avengers did in Sokovia... creating ultron, operating unchecked etc.No, they're not. They're a convenient framing. None of Zemo's plans require the accords to happen.
ThisThere are more interesting consequences and drama than simply having character deaths.
What? Why.. how?The Avengers & Guardians likely would have fared better on Titan had Cap been there.
A convenient frame for the movie's drama and emotional plot. The accords and Zemo are two separate results of Sokovia. They have moments of intersection but ultimately can occur independently. If Zemo was not involved at all, Bucky becomes irrelevant to the story and the finale doesn't happen. The entire story would differ greatly after Ross meets with the Avengers. If the accords don't happen, the Avengers scoop up Bucky and Zemo finds another way to get the information he wants.A convenient framing for whom? Zemo's whole plan is tied up with the Accords because of what the Avengers did in Sokovia... creating ultron, operating unchecked etc.
All the "Thanos would've won regardless" narrative proves is that the writers would have had to find other, potentially more contrived, reasons to sabotage a united Avengers front for Thanos to defeat. As it stands, they were separated and individually weaker as a result of Civil War.
When the OG Avengers win in Endgame, it'll be unequivocally proven that separating Cap and Iron Man was critical to their loss
T H A N U SIt'll be unequivocally proven wrong that Cap or Iron Man are of any consequence. It was the dreaded duo of Ant-Man and Hawkeye that truly would've turned that tide... not those other two bums.
He's a natural leader, he would have done a better job in getting the plan together & keeping everyone in check. Granted, Star-Lord's plan almost worked until he screwed it up, but Cap likely would have done a better job in helping Quill calm down than Tony (not to excuse Quill's fuck-up).
You do realize they were seconds away from defeating Thanos on Titan, right? And only fucked it up because Star Lord couldn't be held back.
And, of course, Cap and Tony will quickly put aside their differences in Endgame so what was the point?
Ya. Did you see the trailer?
There are more interesting consequences and drama than simply having character deaths.
Zemo having a security tape out on a random road...a security tape that somehow zooms in in one cut, is the worst part of Civil War. This guy's plan worked because the writers wanted it to. That security footage being the turning point that rips them apart for good is still terrible for me.
Damn you have spoiler mark that!
This line always bugged me... they were never friends. Coworkers that usually butted heads and worked together but never actual friends.
Ant-Man could have ran up Thanos' asshole if he didn't have his FBI tag.
I didn't see their failure in IW being a consequence of them being broken up.