While it's a step in the right direction that it's changed in the English release, it doesn't address Atlus Japan and putting this in the game in the first place.
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Catherine: Full Body's western localization will remove Erica's deadname in the credits, transphobic lines of dialogue have been changed too
- Thread starter vestan
- Start date
There are people who will jack it to futanari/ladyboys but won't treat real trans people like people.
I'm not sure what to think about this. Is covering up for Atlus Japan really the best move?
It just means they will do it again. I dunno.
Anyway is this confirmed to have dual audio like the PC version of the original?
It just means they will do it again. I dunno.
Anyway is this confirmed to have dual audio like the PC version of the original?
Anyway, I haven't played Catherine so the extent to which this resolves the issue is unclear to me. That said it's good that Atlus took this first step at all, and I hope they're similarly going to cut the homophobic shit out of Persona 5 with P5R.
I also hope that Atlus JP will stop having this nonsense in their games to begin with going forward.
I also hope that Atlus JP will stop having this nonsense in their games to begin with going forward.
"buh da artist's vision is ruined nao thanks 2 cenzorshit"
Cool to see Atlus USA do this, it sounded as though a lot of the US employees weren't happy with what they saw & can show the JP division "hey, let's not include that stuff from the get-go, okay?" Now hopefully, they can savage that one ending part that people had the most issue with, despite the fact it always seemed like (I guess semi-spoilers for the truest ending in Full Body): more a poor/tasteless joke of "she'll transition, it's just that she has yet to do so" instead of "oh, she just stayed being a guy"
Eeeh, not really? It was more of a weird "surprise" than anything. In the original, it had almost no impact to the plot save for one or two bad jokes if you got the best good ending since that was really the only time it was brought up. I had honestly forgotten that until the news of what got added to FB got out.
This is certainly a start and a positive sign for the future since I imagine Atlus Japan would've needed to approve these changes. That said I suspect there's still going to be some transphobic content in there unless they're just outright cutting content.
If the audience was fully aware of why it's wrong, then I'd agree with you. But Atlus has been talking about LGBTQ+ stuff like they have their heads up their asses.
Given how much negativity/cruelty can be hurled at trans folk because some don't understand it enough or seem to generally view it even more "alien" than homosexuality (which still gets its fair share of backlash these days *groan*) ... honestly I admire Atlus for not risking it. It's mean that these characters dogpile on a character for this one thing when she's honestly one of the sweetest supporting roles in the game.
Yeah, I definitely and whole heartedly agree. In an ideal world this shit would never be in the game to begin with.
Interesting that you are sticking to your guns here, but will rock an MF Doom avatar to represent yourself. I'm a big DOOM fan myself, but I can't deny that he has some pretty offensive lyrics, particularly in the LGBTQ arena ("Batty Boyz" for instance).
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I really don't know what you're not grasping here. I think I did a good job of summing it up in the OP for those that aren't familiar with Catherine at all.
One of the major criticisms those in the LGBT community had with the original was
- Deadnaming in the credits
- Transphobic lines of dialogue such as what I posted in the OP but also stuff like one character who isn't aware that Erica is trans being picked on and teased by his friends for not knowing, turning it into a kind of gag or long-running joke
- Said character regretting sleeping with Erica, almost as if he was 'tricked' and all of his friends making fun of him for doing so
It's a clusterfuck, really, and Full Body introduces a fuckton more of this.
It seems like just casual and unnecessary offensive dialogue so it's great that they could rub it out like that! It'd be one thing ifit was meaningful to the guy's character that he couldn't get with the times or didn't like trans people or something, but this is a good example of a positive change you can make while the game loses nothing.
Sorry, I'm speaking of the actual dialog beyond what you have in the OP, since my understanding was Full Body added more problematic content, right? So my question is more "is just the stuff in the original game fixed? Or is the new problematic content also fixed?"I really don't know what you're not grasping here. I think I did a good job of summing it up in the OP for those that aren't familiar with Catherine at all.
One of the major criticisms those in the LGBT community had with the original was
- Deadnaming in the credits
- Transphobic lines of dialogue such as what I posted in the OP but also stuff like one character who isn't aware that Erica is trans being picked on and teased by his friends for not knowing, turning it into a kind of gag or long-running joke
- Said character regretting sleeping with Erica and all of his friends making fun of him for doing so
It's a clusterfuck, really, and Full Body introduces a fuckton more of this.
Never really had a problem with Vincent's dialogue since I do think characters are allowed to be flawed and say shitty things, but it's nice that they're changing more objective things like the credits. You wouldn't credit a non-trans individual as their original name if they changed their name, so why do it to a trans person? Deadnaming is so ugh.
Hope for better, that P5R doesn't have that shit even in the Japanese version to begin with.
Amen to that, but I really have very little hope for Atlus.
This is how I feel.
If the intent was to make Vincent transphobic, thats understandable if they are trying to make him flawed.
But the deadnaming makes the whole thing feel less like "this was meant for Vincent's character" and rather "this reflects Atlus JPs attitute to trans people"
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Beyond the deadnaming in the credits, I don't think anything has been 'fixed'. It's more Atlus USA have had to alleviate and alter the bullshit introduced by P-Studio in the original and Studio Zero in Full Body but the more major stuff is still there and won't be 'fixed' as they're tied to the endings and I can't imagine Atlus JP will be too happy with Atlus USA changing that stuff up as much as I'd want them to.
That fucking sucks. I understand that Atlus USA's hands are tied, but this brings us back to the thesis that it's time for Atlus JP to join the 21st century and drop this fucking regressive bullshit from their games to begin with rather than having Atlus USA trying and failing to put out their fires for them.
There's nothing to fix, it's a fairly positive ending.
Unless you mean the hand slap, which is on the common route, and is more Vincent being the insensitive dick he is.
Good on Atlus USA
No reason to have shit like that in the game besides alienating a part of your fanbase.
No reason to have shit like that in the game besides alienating a part of your fanbase.
While good, like with Fire Emblem Fates with that romance option to fix a woman who likes other women (which I'm still surprised Kotaku actually pulled "But censorship" thing on that), I still don't feel comfortable knowing what the creator's intent actually was and knowing no matter what I played, any time I'll go online I'll be reminded of the transphobia from the original version. Don't feel comfortable with playing any Atlus game honestly.
Plus, I'm now worried trolls are going to further attack Laura Kate Dale, fans of this game seem to despise her with a passion for calling out the transphobia and I'm worried they'll use this to further attack her (with Atlus of course saying nothing).
Plus, I'm now worried trolls are going to further attack Laura Kate Dale, fans of this game seem to despise her with a passion for calling out the transphobia and I'm worried they'll use this to further attack her (with Atlus of course saying nothing).
Good. It was completely disgusting and an unnecessary blemish on a good game. I hope Atlus US continues to clean up games like this, even if it doesn't make it okay it was in the games to begin with.
I hope they clean up every single bit of transphobic content that's in this game and prevent future games from including this kind of unnecessary trash.
User banned (1 Month): Dismissing transphobia, history of similar infractions.
Agreed, I feel like this sets a harmful precedent.
Should BioShock Infinite be altered next because some characters express racist or nationalist views?
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Nowhere near the same thing and you know it. Antagonist does not equal protagonist. There's a thing called context.
Good on Atlus USA.
This is the same reasoning used to defend P4 Yosuke's homophobia, and it falls flat for the same reason: the game never even suggests they're wrong, even from other characters' perspective. "Characters can be shitty" arguments fail when the work at no point suggests their behaviour is, indeed, shitty; it then becomes endorsement, or at least normalization.
That would be beyond shitty; hopefully they changed the dialogue too. Localizers are often given a lot of elbow room regarding what they can change. Imagine if the Phoenix Wright localization team had to phone home every time they came up with the localized name of a character (or wrote about Apollo eating his hamburguers). :)
Does the credits of Bioshock list black characters as "Nigger 1" and "Nigger 2"? Because if not, you missed the whole point
I think it wouldn't be a problem if the comments that Vincent and his friends made were ever really addressed, but they're not and the comments are just treated as jokes rather than incredibly shitty.
The characters didn't make those jokes because they're meant to be flawed people, they made them because the writers thought they were funny.
Just saw this thread here, immediately went to twitter to check the usual suspects..... and you're damn right. They're mad as hell ;D Ridiculous.
jabronis mad as fuck LMFAO
Glad that ATLUS USA has cleaned up some of this mess ATLUS left behind. Look forward to playing through this game again.
too late! there is already faux rage from the sad losers on twitter already, crying to the piece of shit oneangrygamer
Obviously it's your money, so you can ultiamtely decide to do what you want with it. But i'd say supporting changes like this let's these the localisation staff know that it's worth it. And there's always the possibility that it'll end up trickling back over to Japan and ultimately putting a stop to such changes even being necessary. Yakuza 3 had some really transphobic stuff in it, but they recently released the PS4 remaster of it and completely removed that content. That was done in the Japanese version of the game.
Nice to see Atlus USA doing what they can. I know this is an older game, but I was taken off-guard at how mean-spirited some of Vincent's lines about Erica were when I played the Steam port a few months ago.
Ah yes, such non-gamers here on Era. Damn, we're just spitting all over a precious vision. How could we when we don't even play games?!
jabronis mad as fuck LMFAO
Are woke Era bucks redeemable for anything?
Or even leave this thread, unfortunately:
Well, that's easy to answer. Does BioShock Infinite frame racist views as a endearing and harmless quirk of the main character?
Would a change like this need to be brought up to the JP side?
If it was approved maybe someone over there will start listening.
If it was approved maybe someone over there will start listening.