I suspect it's one of those "the right hand does not know what the left hand is doing" kind of deal i.e Sega does not meddle with the way Atlus operates and is thus unaware of what's going with the latter's studios.
Catherine: Full Body's western localization will remove Erica's deadname in the credits, transphobic lines of dialogue have been changed too
- Thread starter vestan
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thats kind of the deal with localizing, like when they covered up the characters more in the western versions of sailor moon
when localizing you alter some things to be more palatable to that region's culture, like in Britain in the 50s, the people in charge of public media consumption or w/e really had a problem with bad guys getting away with things (the US had this issue for TV shows, but not films), so at the end of Vertigo, Hitchcock had to film an extra scene of the characters hearing on the radio that the bad guy had gotten caught somewhere, or else they couldn't show the movie in Britain or it would get a higher rating or w/e
sometimes you change stuff for localization simply because the receiving culture has an issue with it
the point of localizing is to spread out and reaching a new market, changing your product to appeal to that market is part of that process, there would be no point in reaching a new market if they market refuses to buy your thing once it arrives
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Tangential, but the online for the Japanese version is still broken, so hopefully fixing that is also on the to-do list.
I'm glad for this fix as well, of course.
I'm glad for this fix as well, of course.
companies have been aging up 14-year old anime girls for the western market since the dawn of time (uh... the dawn of localisation), so it's not really too far a step from that tbh
About this, has a company ever got angry over the way a game was localizated?
The closest example I can think of it's the whole mess involving Kojima and Jeremy Blaustein over the first MGS game. At least what I recall reading makes it seem so i.e Kojima fuming because Blaustein localizated the game instead of doing a direct translation.
There was conflict over the localization of MGS2 as well. By all accounts, Kojima's a nightmare to work with. He thinks his works are high art and untouchable.
Also, the uproar over NIS's localization of Ys 8.
Yeah, to be clear I don't think Vincent (or Yosuke) are well handled in that regard. Rather that in principal you could make shitty characters who are shitty and address that conversation well. I do think Vincent's dialogue is a reflection of cultural lack of understanding rather than a nuanced take or an intentionally shitty person in that specific regard (he is evidently intentionally shitty in regards to cheating on Katherine should the player go that way, haha).
Apologies if this came off as caping for 'em. Vincent's dialogue was just always the small potatoes for me, but that doesn't mean they're not potatoes at all and I acknowledge that.
yea there was deff. less oversight back then for localization, companies were happy just to have it done without really checking what was going on with it
That's basically my take on it.
It's nice that Atlus USA thinks that this kind of thing isn't acceptable, but ultimately all they are doing is masking the original intent of the game for western players. It does nothing to alleviate the LGBT+phobia of the original text in its home country, japanese LGBT+ people still have to put up with it. I'm not necessarily saying that Atlus USA was wrong to do this, but the thing is it still doesn't address the core of the issue and western players' money is still going to transphobes.
Also, to the question of whether Vincent's character being transphobic is authorial intent or not:
You have to take into consideration the whole context of the work to see what the authorial intent is. For example if you watch Mad Men, it is very obvious that the male characters' sexist attitudes are supposed to be intentional character flaws, because of the specific way the scenes are written and staged. If you apply the same analysis to Catherine, it becomes clear that the transphobia isn't meant to be a damning character flaw of Vincent's, rather it represents Hashino and co.'s attitudes towards trans people because of how casual it is. The characters' jokes and transphobic comments are not addressed, challenged or defied by the narrative, they are just presented as is.
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That Hardcore Gaming 101's interview with Agness Kaku (MGS2 localizator) was a real eye opener. The bit about all those terms and phrases that were set in stone that couldn't be changed at all truly shows Kojima's zealotry over his works.
That and Kaku bluntly saying that she thinks that Kojima is a terrible writer and the fact he's hailed as a visionary being proof of the horrible low standards of the game industry.
From what I remember Blaustein saying, it wasn't just Kojima either. The Konami suits also didn't seem to trust him enough to do his job and seemed to think they knew enough about english/western players to argue against his choices, which is just baffling.
You only become a gamer once you say the gamer word by having a heated gamer moment.
My hope, and admittedly it's a very optimistic long-shot, is that they'll get the message and just not do this kind of awful, hateful crap in the first place. I'm not counting on it, but maybe it'll happen? If they just don't do it anymore going forward then maybe someone's actually changing. Hopefully the Japanese team starts understanding that this kind of stuff is wrong.
They took the very first step at least. Now they need to take some more.
And you know, even if the devs themselves don't really change, if there's enough pressure from up top to not put that content in in the first place then at least they're no longer spreading this kind of stuff around and disseminating the ideas. That's something.
No wonder why he never returned to work on MGS ever again.
Good thing it didn't seem to sour him on Konami since he worked on the PS2 SH games.
Oneangrygamer: SJW'S RUIN CATHERINE FULLBODY WITH CENSORSHIP OF JAPANS ORIGINAL VISION
also Oneangrygamer: SJW'S REKT AS ALABAMA CENSORS GAY ARTHUR EPISODE
I can't take credit for "if my pp isn't hard, play the censorship card" since I saw it on r/gamingcirclejerk... but holy shit it is the truest thing.
I think the Death Stranding development is showing that the MGSV problems were more than just Konami.
What problems does DS have? Hasn't it been only 2 years since development started?
it is biologically impossible to have opinions on things and also be a gamer. the moment you have a social conscious thought, the sjwbodies in your bloodstream activate and attack all of your gaming cells
the screams of censorship will probably be strong. I think i'm buying this. It's good to vote with your dollar in these situations, and let other devs know that the gaming community isn't completely toxic.
Now in regards to the ending that everyone is spoiler tagging, you have to imagine that if they went through all the trouble with the other stuff ---- that they couldn't just leave that alone
Now in regards to the ending that everyone is spoiler tagging, you have to imagine that if they went through all the trouble with the other stuff ---- that they couldn't just leave that alone
The only “problems” the game has had in development that we know of was the actors guild strike that postponed motion capture recording sessions. It’s been in development for 3 years now. The game recently fallen a bit behind schedule but as like all other AAA developers that’s bound to happen.
cleaning up some of the shitty stuff the game did with erica is appreciated, but i'm much more curious how they'll handle
, as it has the potential to actually be pretty positive queer rep if handled a bit more gracefully
rin's route
It reminds me of angry Amazon reviews I saw for Mortal Kombat 11 criticizing that the 'desexualization' of women mixed the game with politics.
Like, oh god. :lol
Well ask yourself this question: Would it be acceptable to have a game where the main character is just really racist and drops racial insults casually, while the story never tackles racism or shows any character reacting to his racism as wrong? Just a "flawed individual" in a "flawed society" without anyone in the game calling it out. Can you imagine that scenario ever not causing any offense? Is such a point worth getting across at all? :)
This is really awesome. I loved Catherine, and I was bummed by the transphobic shit in the game. I'm glad that this re-release is going to address it. I'm really excited to dive into the game again.
I don't see how it even matters considering purchasing the game is still supporting the Japanese team, and furthermore given that many of the biggest issues are conceptual and not something some text changes can fix. It's putting a band-aid over a bullet wound.
I'm glad Atlus USA are as much on the right side of things as they can be, but pragmatically speaking it changes absolutely nothing in the analysis of whether or not one should buy the game.
I'm glad Atlus USA are as much on the right side of things as they can be, but pragmatically speaking it changes absolutely nothing in the analysis of whether or not one should buy the game.
That's exactly the problem, it doesn't address it at all because the issues are intrinsic to the content and not based entirely on dialogue or text. It just softens the transphobic elements (that are still present) through textual changes.
I don't have high hopes for this but I think people are optimistic because they're hoping through these textual changes approved by Atlas Japan, it in turn makes Atlus Japan more aware of the issue and the mess at their hand, and could lead to future positive changes.
Glad that they're making changes. Not glad people elsewhere will complain about censorship or whatever and link to this thread as an example of people "ruining gaming," as I've seen time and time again. People should accept that some changes are made for the better. Whose experience would it improve to keep things the way they were? Bigots only.
Naoto and Kanji weren't really handled that well. I mean, queerness and sexuality were the literal villains for a huge part of the story.
Also, happy about the changes. I'd place my bets on it happening because of pressure from Sega and, of course, the wonderful work of all the marginalized writers who shared their insightful musings on the topic. Hope this signals a change in Atlus' general attitude towards the LGBT community. For one, I'm excited about P5R since they finally got rid of *that* director.
let's not bring up bioshock infinite when it comes to handling of mature themes in the first place, i dont even see the point of someone mentioning it
Yup.
It's a start, and it's nice that Atlus USA isn't total trash, but they aren't getting another dime from me until they patch the Japanese version and offer an explicit, sincere apology.
If you edit yourself it’s not fucking censorship. No one forced them to do this.
If artists intents and censorship are so important to you that much to curse out at developer/publisher for doing their bare minimum to avoid controversy, you should be learning Japanese and playing all games imported.
which is why I am not touching any game by these devs/pubs with a 10 foot pole.
no localization is gonna change where it came from and what intent its developers had.
Same here. I’m currently playing through the game on PC since I never finished it on PS3. Would’ve been nice to have a spoiler tag and more of a generic title.