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LightKiosk

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,479
Praying for a fixed character and preferably a female lead. A created character would be such a step down.

I'd rather have a character creator in a game like this than a fixed character. I don't expect much from the story, but I expect a lot from the world and the things you can do in it.

All of that will probably tie into whatever form of online they're doing, which is where the unique characters will come into play.
 

Maligna

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,815
Canada
Like I said. Massive step down. If I wanted to play a pen and paper RPG, I'd get my friends and play a pen and paper RPG.

A created character is an instant guarantee that the story will be disappointing compared to TW3.

I disagree.

Forcing me into a character that is established as a certain type of person without giving me any choice is like, the opposite of an RPG to me.

I need the choice to decide who I am or else I don't feel engaged and it doesn't feel like my story. It feels like I'm an observer in someone else's story.
 

ToddBonzalez

The Pyramids? That's nothing compared to RDR2
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
15,530
I thought Witcher 3 was great, but I'm not much of a fantasy guy. Cyberpunk is easily one of my favorite genres/aesthetics. I'm ready to mainline 2077 straight into my veins.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,734
I disagree.

Forcing me into a character that is established as a certain type of person without giving me any choice is like, the opposite of an RPG to me.

I need the choice to decide who I am or else I don't feel engaged and it doesn't feel like my story. It feels like I'm an observer in someone else's story.

We're exact opposites, then. I don't care about choice, I care about storytelling. If my character isn't a fleshed out person feeling things and emoting and reacting to the world in a believable manner, I don't give a damn about them. I don't care about their struggle and I have no investment in seeing it through.

Honestly, TW3 is the only WRPG I've EVER played that attempted to tell a meaningful, detailed, character-driven story in the choice-based RPG framework. Losing that is just...heartbreaking. There'll never be another game like it.
 

Eros

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,667
I'd rather have a character creator in a game like this than a fixed character. I don't expect much from the story, but I expect a lot from the world and the things you can do in it.

All of that will probably tie into whatever form of online they're doing, which is where the unique characters will come into play.

giphy.gif


After a game like Witcher 3?
 

More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,623
My point is that CDP is great at making singleplayer games, and I don't want them to waste resources on multiplayer that I do not care about, personally. Witcher 3 would have been a worse game if it had less great quests because they had to dedicate manpower to some multiplayer mode that I wouldn't use anyway.
Yeah, but the Witcher series was always single player. If they're designing a game from its foundations to blend single player and multiplayer, then it isn't wasted manpower or lessening a game.

It's just them making a game in the first place.

Your comment makes it sounds like Cyberpunk is a long-running established franchise that was always single player, so adding multiplayer would be some big shift or take away from a long-established solo focus. But it's not.

The Cyberpunk video game franchise doesn't exist yet; this game will define what that franchise is. Can you imagine the Soulsborne series with PvP or co-op or messages? Just like Demons' Souls defined what that series will be, Cyberpunk will do the same.
 

the_wart

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,262
We're exact opposites, then. I don't care about choice, I care about storytelling. If my character isn't a fleshed out person feeling things and emoting and reacting to the world in a believable manner, I don't give a damn about them. I don't care about their struggle and I have no investment in seeing it through.

Honestly, TW3 is the only WRPG I've EVER played that attempted to tell a meaningful, detailed, character-driven story in the choice-based RPG framework. Losing that is just...heartbreaking. There'll never be another game like it.

Have you played Planescape: Torment? It gives you much more control over your PC's personality than TW3 does, but it gives you a fixed backstory and motivation and milks them for all that they're worth.

What it doesn't have, which really is unique to TW3, is the same nuance of relationships among characters. I think TW3 really may be unique in that regard. Bioware-style companions just don't compare, as they often devolve into "say nice things to them until they sleep with you" (yes I realize this is reductive).

In any case, I share your appreciation of how The Witcher integrated defined characters and meaningful choice, but I'm also excited to see their take on the more "pure" role-playing style of storytelling. It will certainly be different than their previous games but I am not worried about it being worse.
 

Dazraell

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
1,843
Poland
We're exact opposites, then. I don't care about choice, I care about storytelling. If my character isn't a fleshed out person feeling things and emoting and reacting to the world in a believable manner, I don't give a damn about them. I don't care about their struggle and I have no investment in seeing it through.

Honestly, TW3 is the only WRPG I've EVER played that attempted to tell a meaningful, detailed, character-driven story in the choice-based RPG framework. Losing that is just...heartbreaking. There'll never be another game like it.

There is a major difference in The Witcher and Cyberpunk IPs. Cyberpunk is based on pen'n'paper RPG, so you really should expect character creator in some form. The Witcher 3 is not only a final part of the trilogy with a character that build a lot of relationships during that trilogy, but also serves as a direct continuation of series of novels and short stories.

I really hope that CDP will find a way to create a meaningful, memorable and voiced protagonist that you can also customize.
 

Ether_Snake

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
11,306
I'm really curious about Cyber Punk, we still don't know if a big open world with vehicles and all no?
 

Cabbagehead

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,019
We're exact opposites, then. I don't care about choice, I care about storytelling. If my character isn't a fleshed out person feeling things and emoting and reacting to the world in a believable manner, I don't give a damn about them. I don't care about their struggle and I have no investment in seeing it through.

Honestly, TW3 is the only WRPG I've EVER played that attempted to tell a meaningful, detailed, character-driven story in the choice-based RPG framework. Losing that is just...heartbreaking. There'll never be another game like it.

It's the wrong game for you then. Because the Cyberpunk series being P&P first and foremost, an them being faithful in their take. Means its not about fixed character's given the genre of game and game type. Though there is a story-line/main that are kind of fixed. But this isn't a game being made that's based on book and a lot of folks that are looking forward to this game aren't down with being a fixed character. Since P&P is about choice.
 

Maligna

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,815
Canada
We're exact opposites, then. I don't care about choice, I care about storytelling. If my character isn't a fleshed out person feeling things and emoting and reacting to the world in a believable manner, I don't give a damn about them. I don't care about their struggle and I have no investment in seeing it through.

Honestly, TW3 is the only WRPG I've EVER played that attempted to tell a meaningful, detailed, character-driven story in the choice-based RPG framework. Losing that is just...heartbreaking. There'll never be another game like it.

If I want all those things I usually play a game like Uncharted or Batman or something.

Choice is what differentiates RPGs from action games in my eyes.

I don't think having a "blank slate" character means you can't have a good story either. I quite liked the story in Mass Effect and KOTOR.

But like you said, we're opposites. I'm just glad they are making a game for me this time, as I couldn't get into the Witcher. Although I did buy it at launch specifically to support the studio because I'm so ridiculously excited for Cyberpunk.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,734
It's the wrong game for you then. Because the Cyberpunk series being P&P first and foremost, an them being faithful in their take. Means its not about fixed character's given the genre of game and game type. Though there is a story-line/main that are kind of fixed. But this isn't a game being made that's based on book and a lot of folks that are looking forward to this game aren't down with being a fixed character. Since P&P is about choice.

Right. Which means the last bastion of character-driven RPG storytelling is dead. That's why I'm upset - there is straight-up no other option in this burnt-out wasteland of an industry.

Hopefully CDPR finds a way to make both of us happy, but I don't see it happening.
 

Thordawgg

Member
Nov 5, 2017
716
Excited for Cyberpunk, I hope they can maintain and build on the quality they established in TW3. I'm hoping that Gwent comes to mobile (or Switch) eventually, that'd suit me better these days so I'm happy to hear him talking about future platforms.
 

More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,623
Right. Which means the last bastion of character-driven RPG storytelling is dead. That's why I'm upset - there is straight-up no other option in this burnt-out wasteland of an industry.

Hopefully CDPR finds a way to make both of us happy, but I don't see it happening.
Don't worry, indie and japanese RPGs will keep character-driven RPGs alive
 

Simo

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,886
Michigan, USA
Also, on the subject of Cyberpunk, Perturbator kind of sort of hinted/confirmed that he's on the soundtrack.

https://ask.fm/Perturbatormusic/answers/142355958752

Hoooly sheeeeet wat?!

The last rumor I heard was some podcast getting a leak of world being 3x bigger than the Witcher 3 and the expansions combined. That and they were using the power of the engine that would render the weather and day/night cycle for destructible environments instead that would be rebuilt or repaired over time.

Man...I hope we get something at TGA.
 

EatChildren

Wonder from Down Under
Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,029
I feel something like Mass Effect (mixed BioWare writing aside) is a fine middle ground of having a character creator and also achieving a fully voiced, narratively established protagonist. Having a character creator doesn't mean the protagonist cannot be grounded in the universe in a believable way, even if a fully defined protagonist is preferable.

"Scope" sounds like it's lost in translation too, or misinterpreted. I dunno, folk always seem to think very literally when words like this are thrown around, assuming it means the game is literally bigger in landmass and playable content than The Witcher 3. I don't necessarily feel that's the case. It may be true, but scope can mean so many other things too, like the depth to the title and scope of production. Though I adore The Witcher 3 the questing structure is generally pretty simple, largely due to the defined nature of Geralt's character and available abilities. The game never has to account for Geralt being a master locksmith, or +10 charisma, or anything like that. If CDPR are adopting an assortment of passive game system abilities alongside a multilayered narrative this would in practice of design and development scope be a significant leap over The Witcher 3.

When we look at why CDPR has been so coy on revealing Cyberpunk, and why we hear rumours of a turbulent development cycle, this is likely the reason. As much of a monumental undertaking and achievement The Witcher 3 was, Cyberpunk on paper is an entirely different beast, forcing CDPR to built entirely new game systems from the ground up and quest, world, combat infrastructure to encompass this. The Witcher 3 is more akin to an action adventure RPG where agency is action based and neatly organized through dialogue and combat development. Cyberpunk, if they're leveraging the source material, draws more from traditional PnP rulesets. It'd be like FROM going from making Dark Souls to something like Fallout; plenty of learned experience to leverage, but sweeping differences in design and structure. I can only imagine how much barriers they're hitting seeing this through.
 

Stiler

Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
6,659
Shepard did nothing for me, I'm afraid. The robotic, stilted voice direction, the complete lack of investment the character had in literally anything that was going on...it was just empty. I gave up after 2 because I didn't give a damn about Shepard or the core conflict. Just an empty puppet of a character. The only "character moments" were related to the romances, and I didn't like any members of the cast enough to bother with that.

It's actually half the reason I'm not excited about a character creator in this game. If Shepard is the gold standard for sockpuppet character writing, we're in for a rough ride. I need a player character I actually care about. Someone with actual emotions.

For me it was like the opposite experience of all that.

Garrus was legit one of the best written "buddies" I've ever experienced in an rpg, especially playing through all three games with him as one of the main companions I used and the grow they shared over all three games. Garrus, Liara, Tali (and Wrex in ME1) were my go to members and were probably the better written of all the companions across the game, I can see how it might have been a different experience for you if you picked other companions, this can drastically change the feelings and banter you can experience during the games.

After three games and the experience between Shepard and his team it felt like he cared, a lot about things.

I do agree though that some of Shepards writing/voice was a bit stilted as far as emotion and things go though (at least Male Shep), especially going back after some years.
 

Cabbagehead

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,019
Right. Which means the last bastion of character-driven RPG storytelling is dead. That's why I'm upset - there is straight-up no other option in this burnt-out wasteland of an industry.

Hopefully CDPR finds a way to make both of us happy, but I don't see it happening.

I think that would be a tell task but at the same time. I believe CDP is thinking the same thing in regards to not wanting to alienate the fans of their single player Witcher games. So i'm sure they aren't going to dive to far. But at the same time, they'll have more then enough RPG storytelling goodness, but of course it won't be character-driven but player driven. Which isn't to different to be honest, you just have more choice to shape your journey. Which the RPG/P&P/TABLETOP genre bloomed from anyway.
 

Cabbagehead

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,019
I feel something like Mass Effect (mixed BioWare writing aside) is a fine middle ground of having a character creator and also achieving a fully voiced, narratively established protagonist. Having a character creator doesn't mean the protagonist cannot be grounded in the universe in a believable way, even if a fully defined protagonist is preferable.

"Scope" sounds like it's lost in translation too, or misinterpreted. I dunno, folk always seem to think very literally when words like this are thrown around, assuming it means the game is literally bigger in landmass and playable content than The Witcher 3. I don't necessarily feel that's the case. It may be true, but scope can mean so many other things too, like the depth to the title and scope of production. Though I adore The Witcher 3 the questing structure is generally pretty simple, largely due to the defined nature of Geralt's character and available abilities. The game never has to account for Geralt being a master locksmith, or +10 charisma, or anything like that. If CDPR are adopting an assortment of passive game system abilities alongside a multilayered narrative this would in practice of design and development scope be a significant leap over The Witcher 3.

When we look at why CDPR has been so coy on revealing Cyberpunk, and why we hear rumours of a turbulent development cycle, this is likely the reason. As much of a monumental undertaking and achievement The Witcher 3 was, Cyberpunk on paper is an entirely different beast, forcing CDPR to built entirely new game systems from the ground up and quest, world, combat infrastructure to encompass this. The Witcher 3 is more akin to an action adventure RPG where agency is action based and neatly organized through dialogue and combat development. Cyberpunk, if they're leveraging the source material, draws more from traditional PnP rulesets. It'd be like FROM going from making Dark Souls to something like Fallout; plenty of learned experience to leverage, but sweeping differences in design and structure. I can only imagine how much barriers they're hitting seeing this through.

 

More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,623
I'm not sure if you're serious or joking right now...
Why would I be joking? If you're into cyberpunk, the narrative/character-driven Rain of Reflections is in development. No Truce With The Furies follows a very specific (yet still very moldable) character in a Planetscape Torment-esque retro-futuristic cRPG. The Banner Saga 3 is story driven, as are various jRPGs. The new Irrational devs studio Ghost Story is doing an immersive sim. And so on
 

Cabbagehead

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,019
https://www.reddit.com/r/cyberpunkgame/comments/60xpjm/cyberpunk_rpg_for_beginnersnewcomers_and/


It's no question that Cyberpunk 2077 is one of the most anticipated games of the generation but so few have even heard of this franchise, let alone actually played it. This "article" is purley to educate those who are completely new to the series and want to know more about CDPRs ambitious project, as well as the history behind Cyberpunk RPG.

Needless to say, it's going to be a lengthy read but I hope this brings a new perspective for newcomers and veterans. Everything from the basics and must-know knowledge to the politics and economics of Night City. This will cover both video gaming and Tabletop gaming.
 

Eros

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,667
Witcher 3 main story was average. Some side quests had better story than the main quest.

The main plot, sure, but I thought the characters/writing/dialogue were great. I include that with story. Maybe you don't (or still disagree). Hearts of Stone is even better story wise. And I don't see how Witcher 3 outdoing its plot with...other stuff in its own game is a shot against...its own game lol.

Have you not played Cyberpunk or looked up the source? this isn't a novel series. The game isn't about saving the world from some evil or saving/looking for someone.

I know it's coming from the table top game, which I have not played. And that the guy responsible for the original is working on it.

There has to be RPGs taken from table top that have good stories. Doesn't freakin Planescape: Torment come from D&D?

Not sure what saving the world or looking for someone has to do with being a good story.
 

CrypticSlayer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
647
Can't wait to see Cyberpunk eventually. I think we'll see it at next E3 at MS stage based on their past relationship.
 

Tyaren

Character Artist
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
24,786
A shame regarding the Witcher series... I loved the Witcher world. The Cyberpunk 2077 setting is not my cup of tea, though we haven't seen much of that yet to be fair.

Is Cyberpunk 2077 even supposed to come out this generation? It seems so elusive and far, far away.
 

Cabbagehead

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,019
The main plot, sure, but I thought the characters/writing/dialogue were great. I include that with story. Maybe you don't (or still disagree). Hearts of Stone is even better story wise. And I don't see how Witcher 3 outdoing its plot with...other stuff in its own game is a shot against...its own game lol.



I know it's coming from the table top game, which I have not played. And that the guy responsible for the original is working on it.

There has to be RPGs taken from table top that have good stories. Doesn't freakin Planescape: Torment come from D&D?

Not sure what saving the world or looking for someone has to do with being a good story.

Th overarching end-point is that in Witcher. But i guess that's a moot point.

Planescape:Torment is a different type of tabletop game to video game translation no? it's heavy-heavy on story and dialogue/text. Were as the Cyberpunk series isn't really that heavy and it's more free-form with it's combat and mechanics. Still there's plenty of meat to gleam from story-wise. Though rather or not it's top notch stuff is another question.
 

Mezoly

Jimbo Replacement
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,401
The main plot, sure, but I thought the characters/writing/dialogue were great. I include that with story. Maybe you don't (or still disagree). Hearts of Stone is even better story wise. And I don't see how Witcher 3 outdoing its plot with...other stuff in its own game is a shot against...its own game lol.
.
I guess you are right. I just hope Cyberpunk main story is more ambitious than W3. And yeah characters/writing/dialogue were the highlight of the game for me.
 
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PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,734
Why would I be joking? If you're into cyberpunk, the narrative/character-driven Rain of Reflections is in development. No Truce With The Furies follows a very specific (yet still very moldable) character in a Planetscape Torment-esque retro-futuristic cRPG. The Banner Saga 3 is story driven, as are various jRPGs. The new Irrational devs studio Ghost Story is doing an immersive sim. And so on

I can't even look at most JRPGs anymore because they've just become completely infested with anime tropes - Yakuza is pretty much the only safe haven in the current industry. I don't do the CRPG thing either - I was a console kid outside of LucasArts adventure games and never developed any nostalgia for isometric RPGs or pen and paper-inspired mechanics. Tried Divinity: Original Sin (twice!) and just couldn't get invested in the story or the combat system. Pillars of Eternity didn't work for me either - just didn't care about anything that was going on and the core gameplay wasn't fun enough to make me push on.

I think that would be a tell task but at the same time. I believe CDP is thinking the same thing in regards to not wanting to alienate the fans of their single player Witcher games. So i'm sure they aren't going to dive to far. But at the same time, they'll have more then enough RPG storytelling goodness, but of course it won't be character-driven but player driven. Which isn't to different to be honest, you just have more choice to shape your journey. Which the RPG/P&P/TABLETOP genre bloomed from anyway.

We'll have to see how it shakes out. I still think a singular, defined female lead - with a player-defined character class, that's totally fine! - would be way more interesting than a character with no set traits, personality or backstory, though. We have enough games with character creators - there's basically no options for people who want to play as a fleshed-out protagonist anymore outside of the Witcher games.
 

More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,623
To be honest, a cyberpunk story is ripe for the customizable character. Especially here, where the premise is a person starting from the alleys and gutters and rising through the crime/corruption ridden streets and skyscrapers. The hacker, the assassin, the augmentation dealer, the rebel, the businessman, etc.
 

Cabbagehead

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,019
I guess you are right. I just hope Cyberpunk main story is more ambitions than W3. And yeah characters/writing/dialogue were the highlight of the game for me.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyberpunk_2020

To be honest it will be interesting to see how CDP expands with this baseline and handles being task with it. Because there isn't going to be a shit-ton of foundation to start from. Unlike with Witcher.
 

Deleted member 17403

User Requested Account Closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,664
Hopefully Cyberpunk is good. Have CD Projekt ever ventured into the fps genre? I'm a little hesitant. I know the Witcher 3 is highly regarded but when I owned it, I could never get into because of the combat. It was nice to look and the world was vast but the combat imo wasn't engaging or fun and made exploring the world a hassle. Well hopefully Cyberpunk doesn't suffer from that; the setting is immensely interesting and hopefully they take some design choices from Deus Ex, Dishonored, Prey, Fallout and Doom to make a superb open-world fps experience.
 

More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,623
I can't even look at most JRPGs anymore because they've just become completely infested with anime tropes - Yakuza is pretty much the only safe haven in the current industry. I don't do the CRPG thing either - I was a console kid outside of LucasArts adventure games and never developed any nostalgia for isometric RPGs or pen and paper-inspired mechanics. Tried Divinity: Original Sin (twice!) and just couldn't get invested in the story or the combat system. Pillars of Eternity didn't work for me either - just didn't care about anything that was going on and the core gameplay wasn't fun enough to make me push on.
You might like No Truce and Rain of Reflections as they're both moving far away from the combat and typical turn-based mechanics in favor of nuanced conversation and character interaction mechanics. No Truce won't even have traditional combat at all

And liking isometric RPGs has little to do with nostalgia. They just tend to look gorgeous.

ss_44fe1311afb2221c31ee7aa4ca92c8c8b1084d4a.600x338.jpg
exvcODcl.jpg


RoR_E32017_Story_08-1024x429.png
 

TheRed

Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,658
So happy to hear development is progressing fine for Cyberpunk 2077. I think I would literally cry if news just popped up one day like how so many have and was cancelled before we ever saw anything. Which would leave me rewatching the teaser forever and dreaming.
Can't fucking wait for that game.
 

Cabbagehead

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,019
We'll have to see how it shakes out. I still think a singular, defined female lead - with a player-defined character class, that's totally fine! - would be way more interesting than a character with no set traits, personality or backstory, though. We have enough games with character creators - there's basically no options for people who want to play as a fleshed-out protagonist anymore outside of the Witcher games.

Well given that it's Cyberpunk. There isn't anything like it on the market in regards to having character creator within it's genre. Plus we've had Prey, Mass Effect, Deus Ex, Dishonored do their thing plenty. So far i haven't gotten my open world/character creator fix since Oblivion. Since i didn't like Fallout 4.

I mean you could be that "singular, defined female lead - with a player-defined character class" if you wish to be honest, even though you can be more then one class or switch. The game is structured in a way that allows for you to have a singular focus at least that's if CDP is going to have that path. I mean they could learn from Mass Effect to achieve gameplay that suits you to some degree. I guess in someways, i find it odd that you need to have a fix character so much and that in some ways it's unappealing to have a semi-blank slit character. Even though you can shape it yourself within the context of the story given.
 

Mr.Flufferson

Member
Oct 25, 2017
214
How is it even possible that cyberpunk will be bigger in scope than the witcher 3? Witcher is already so huge that it doesn't seem possible to go bigger without overwhelming players or reducing the quality.

Also, what do you think of multiplayer? My initial thought was traditional multiplayer with some sort of shooting gameplay. Or maybe we will get dark souls style asynchronous multiplayer?