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Deleted member 5535

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,656
Man fuck that author completely. I don't like the idea of people being taken advantage of or not being paid for their work but they offered dude a deal and he balked and demanded cash and they fucking agreed on it. He signed his godamn name and proceeded to trash said company and games in general until he realized that their creative endeavor was - and will forever be - wildly more sucessfull than his stupid books.

I know the country he's based in has some insanely leniant laws favoring his argument but i hope something turns the screw on this dudes life at some point in the near future for being such a douchebag.

The funny thing is that without those stupid books, the franchise you love wouldn't exist at all in the games. And before you come with the argument of the games making it popular, even if we take it into account (which wouldn't be true in poland and eastern europe at least), the creation of the series came from him much like the same is true for Tolkien, JK Rolling and many authors in the world.
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
I don't get the vitriol towards Sapkowski; "stubborn bitter angry old man", etc. Some of you seem to take the "he doesn't believe in videogames" as a personal attack. His books are pretty great, and yes, the foundation of the videogames and the reason they took off to begin with.

I would dearly hope to see you in the situation of selling the rights to a work you put decades of your life into for 10k, then seeing a work based on it go on to sell millions and saying "nah, I don't want any of that money". It's so easy to claim the high moral ground when nobody is going to actually put you in that situation.

Be a bit more classy than this, Era. Or at least stop being aggressively ageist.
 

Tibarn

Member
Oct 31, 2017
13,370
Barcelona
I don't get the vitriol towards Sapkowski; "stubborn bitter angry old man", etc. Some of you seem to take the "he doesn't believe in videogames" as a personal attack. His books are pretty great, and yes, the foundation of the videogames and the reason they took off to begin with.

I would dearly hope to see you in the situation of selling the rights to a work you put decades of your life into for 10k, then seeing a work based on it go on to sell millions and saying "nah, I don't want any of that money". It's so easy to claim the high moral ground when nobody is going to actually put you in that situation.

Be a bit more classy than this, Era. Or at least stop being aggressively ageist.
Exactly my thoughts. If you really love the games (that are basically good because the NPCs, lore and stories) you must love Sapkowski's work too, regardless of his opinion about other medium.
 

Deleted member 11413

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
22,961
Good, they should've done this from the beginning. Spakowski's series is great, and he laid so much of the foundation that The Witcher 3 builds upon.
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,205
Guy was dumb to sign away all his rights for pennies, but I feel this was the right move. CDPR would be nothing without The Witcher.
 

Deleted member 11413

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
22,961
I don't get the vitriol towards Sapkowski; "stubborn bitter angry old man", etc. Some of you seem to take the "he doesn't believe in videogames" as a personal attack. His books are pretty great, and yes, the foundation of the videogames and the reason they took off to begin with.

I would dearly hope to see you in the situation of selling the rights to a work you put decades of your life into for 10k, then seeing a work based on it go on to sell millions and saying "nah, I don't want any of that money". It's so easy to claim the high moral ground when nobody is going to actually put you in that situation.

Be a bit more classy than this, Era. Or at least stop being aggressively ageist.
Exactly this. It was always completely reasonable for him to ask for more money. The third game especially is based so heavily upon his writing that it was wrong for him to see nothing from it.
 

Karlinel

Prophet of Truth
Banned
Nov 10, 2017
7,826
Mallorca, Spain
I like that CDPR are into charity, so we share more than just our acronyms :P
But Andrezj...you are a bitter and spiteful old man, and I hope your pride will hurt badly after what you will no doubt feel it's just alms.
 

Dreamwriter

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,461
Cause he could have moved on to some other book after he sold off the rights but he made new books which were used in lore of Witcher 2 and 3.
Were they? Witcher 1 was made after all five books had been written (it takes place after the five books), and when the author suddenly released a new book, Witcher 3 had already been in development. I'm not sure if the game referenced anything from book 6.
 

jett

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,656
Seems a tad late, but better than nothing I guess. I guess it's more of a symbolic move.

I don't get the vitriol towards Sapkowski; "stubborn bitter angry old man", etc. Some of you seem to take the "he doesn't believe in videogames" as a personal attack. His books are pretty great, and yes, the foundation of the videogames and the reason they took off to begin with.

I would dearly hope to see you in the situation of selling the rights to a work you put decades of your life into for 10k, then seeing a work based on it go on to sell millions and saying "nah, I don't want any of that money". It's so easy to claim the high moral ground when nobody is going to actually put you in that situation.

Be a bit more classy than this, Era. Or at least stop being aggressively ageist.

This place is bizarrely aggressive against Sapkowski.
 

Dreamwriter

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,461
Exactly this. It was always completely reasonable for him to ask for more money. The third game especially is based so heavily upon his writing that it was wrong for him to see nothing from it.
Disagree, when you sign a contract with all the information available at the time, without any trickery, it's not reasonable to reneg on that contract, asking for more money. That's really the point of a contract, each side is promising to abide by an agreement.

I don't get the vitriol towards Sapkowski;
Because he is breaking his legal agreement in demanding more money. He took zero risk and now gets to profit as if he had taken that risk. The company that took an even bigger risk now has to pay up. If someone breaks their word just because they are greedy, I call that person out as a dick.
 

Deleted member 11413

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
22,961
Disagree, when you sign a contract with all the information available at the time, without any trickery, it's not reasonable to reneg on that contract, asking for more money. That's really the point of a contract, each side is promising to abide by an agreement.
Contracts get renegotiated all the time. He undervalued the rights to his own work, once the true value was apparent he attempted to rectify that mistake, and reached an agreement that was acceptable to both parties with CDPR. Shitting on an author for that is stupid, it's frankly none of your business
 

Edgar

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
7,180
Seems a tad late, but better than nothing I guess. I guess it's more of a symbolic move.



This place is bizarrely aggressive against Sapkowski.
There's nothing bizarre about it. And from this thread only people are 50/50 on cdpr vs sapkowski.
 

Dreamwriter

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,461
Contracts get renegotiated all the time. He undervalued the rights to his own work, once the true value was apparent he attempted to rectify that mistake, and reached an agreement that was acceptable to both parties with CDPR. Shitting on an author for that is stupid, it's frankly none of your business
The company was forced to an agreement to save on an expensive legal battle because he sued them. That's not "renegotiating a contract". It's likely CDPR gets nothing from this "deal" except to not have to deal with it anymore.
 

Nax

Hero of Bowerstone
Member
Oct 10, 2018
6,674
Bummer. That dude doesn't deserve another cent. His attitude towards CDPR and games in general said it all. He was just upset that he bet wrong.
 

Unkindled

Member
Nov 27, 2018
3,247
Were they? Witcher 1 was made after all five books had been written (it takes place after the five books), and when the author suddenly released a new book, Witcher 3 had already been in development. I'm not sure if the game referenced anything from book 6.
Nvm, I only knew about English translated book release dates, my bad.
 

Deleted member 50969

User requested account closure
Banned
Dec 17, 2018
892
People forget that CDPR technical prowess was the main reason that the Witcher games survived. If it was a quick cash grab , the series would've been dead by two.

If Cybepunk outpaces the Witcher 3, then lol.
 

Deleted member 11413

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
22,961
The company was forced to an agreement to save on an expensive legal battle because he sued them. That's not "renegotiating a contract". It's likely CDPR gets nothing from this "deal" except to not have to deal with it anymore.
Yeah sometimes it's necessary to get the courts involved. There is nothing morally wrong with Spakowski doing this.
 

SilkySm00th

Member
Oct 31, 2017
4,801
The funny thing is that without those stupid books, the franchise you love wouldn't exist at all in the games. And before you come with the argument of the games making it popular, even if we take it into account (which wouldn't be true in poland and eastern europe at least), the creation of the series came from him much like the same is true for Tolkien, JK Rolling and many authors in the world.

Yes indeed. I do realize that he wrote the books they based their game off of. I don't think anyone here is trying to erase his contribution or downplay the fact that he is an author. I'm not angry at him getting something for his work that he did.
But he signed a contract, in arrogance and ignorance, asking for cash INSTEAD of royalties because he didn't like video games. Or didn't believe in CDprojekt to make a compelling game. Or didn't do HIS DUE DILIGENCE as a creator and suss out just how big the market for games and such could potentially be.

Yay, he's an author. This situation has revealed that he is also a fucking asshole.
 

Dreamwriter

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,461
Yeah sometimes it's necessary to get the courts involved. There is nothing morally wrong with Spakowski doing this.
Just gonna have to disagree. It's morally wrong to make an agreement and then break it just because you want more money, when neither side hid anything. He didn't undervalue his work, he undervalued the use that CDPR would put to it and the extra value CDPR would add to his books (which he still doesn't believe that they helped his book sales at all, even in English-speaking countries).
 

Coffee

Member
Oct 27, 2017
414
Malmö
Seems like a good PR move from them. Even if the author is a dick, I'm sure he's still fairly popular in Poland, giving him a little something something as a sign of "respect" will earn them some good rep. Sapkowski is still a total dick though.
 

RPGamer

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,435
Not that great of reviews on glassdoor.com with just 58% recommendation to work there, and I believe there were some instances of people who should have been salaried were instead just contract workers to avoid paying benefits.

Can Glassdoor reviews be taken seriously? After the Retrostudios reviews i have my doubts.

Nintendo has a 3,4 with 60% recommendations and Playstation a 3,5 with 68% recommendation, that's not far away from CD Project Red.

@topic: Honestly i like it as long as CD Project doesn't have to pay too much so they don't get in trouble financially. Even if he doesn't deserve it from a legal standpoint, he is still the creator of the IP and it would be good if he is on board for a new part of the series.
 

RDreamer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,106
Completely agree.

You sign the deal, you live with it. Don't come crying later on if something blows up. That's business and what a written contract is for.

You know what was in the contract? You've seen it?

The company was forced to an agreement to save on an expensive legal battle because he sued them. That's not "renegotiating a contract". It's likely CDPR gets nothing from this "deal" except to not have to deal with it anymore.

This happens all the time. Seriously. Maybe it's not "renegotiating a contract" in your mind, but whatever the fuck it is, it happens a lot. Tolkein estate had to sue WB, and they settled things. Contracts, especially those done a long while ago, may be vague on certain things and threatening lawsuits is how these things work. It's not some sort of big 'fuck you' to fans or something. It's just how shit is done.
 

Dreamwriter

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,461
This happens all the time. Seriously. Maybe it's not "renegotiating a contract" in your mind, but whatever the fuck it is, it happens a lot. Tolkein estate had to sue WB, and they settled things. Contracts, especially those done a long while ago, may be vague on certain things and threatening lawsuits is how these things work. It's not some sort of big 'fuck you' to fans or something. It's just how shit is done.
Tolkien Estate sued because the movie studio was being shady - they promised royalties based on the movie profits, and then calculated their "profits" as if the movie trilogy was a loss. That's an entirely different situation.
 

RDreamer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,106
Tolkien Estate sued because the movie studio was being shady - they promised royalties based on the movie profits, and then calculated their "profits" as if the movie trilogy was a loss. That's an entirely different situation.

That's actually not the lawsuit I'm talking about. There was another suit where Tolkein estate claimed they didn't have the rights to use it for online gaming/gambling-like applications and WB thought they could. Tolkein estate interpreted things as WB had rights to only physical products and not anything digital or service based at all.

As for who's shade? That's what the courts decide and/or settlements sort out. Contracts aren't always 100% clear all the time. And with bigger properties all parties are going to try and wiggle around every which way and use laws to their advantage. That's just life.
 

Alienous

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,604
Good, I'm sure he wasn't aware whatever contract he signed would allow CD Projekt Red to license his characters to other games from other publishers (like Soul Calibur).
 
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Nephilim

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,279
Never heard of Sapkowski before. He should be thankful to CDPR to make his name somewhat famous.
Sapkowski doesn't deserve it though, due the disrespect he had/has towards CDPR and videogames as a medium in general.
 

Van Bur3n

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
26,089
I can't be upset at Sapkowski getting paid because, you know, he is the reason The Witcher universe exists in the first place for CDPR to capitalize on. CDPR had every right not to do it, but it's a nice gesture.
 

ThreepQuest64

Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
5,735
Germany
They'll make it seem like that for PR reasons, though.

Realistically disputes like this come up all the fucking time
I visited once a (public) law case at labor court. The company paid their employee compensation although he was legally fired because he stole a laptop from the company, kept a company car key after he was fired, and some other things; the sum they paid him was a year's salary. The judge said afterwards to us, my study class, that this happens all the time and the compensation seems big at first, but is usually the case here; the companies want to save their faces, outwards and inwards, that even if you part ways with the company, they 'care' for you.

In regards of A.S. books, I never heard of them and I lived 35km from the Polish border at that time TW1 and TW2 were released. I'm a member in a big German video game forum and people had asked me all the time if I could, for compensation of course, get them original (in Polish) books, comics, and magazines covering The Witcher. At the time of TW2 many friends and my family started to discover the Witcher books. My personal experience seems to be in line what the consensus is: CDPR definitely helped the book's sales numbers. Of course it works vice versa, without the books there would have been no The Witcher. But if I'm correct they were working on a game either way, a game that was much inspired by Gothic. Who knows what game would have come up and how they would had developed if it wasn't for The Witcher?

In any case, I've been following A.S.'s interviews for years and in more recent years it seems he came to terms with the medium, or at least could bring up some respect and a bit of appreciation. I don't expect old people to fundamentally change and he reminded me so much of my grand-uncle, who died at the age of 92. Some things couldn't simply be discussed; there was no sense in it.

I hope the compensation settles this.
 

misho8723

Member
Jan 7, 2018
3,719
Slovakia
Yes indeed. I do realize that he wrote the books they based their game off of. I don't think anyone here is trying to erase his contribution or downplay the fact that he is an author. I'm not angry at him getting something for his work that he did.
But he signed a contract, in arrogance and ignorance, asking for cash INSTEAD of royalties because he didn't like video games. Or didn't believe in CDprojekt to make a compelling game. Or didn't do HIS DUE DILIGENCE as a creator and suss out just how big the market for games and such could potentially be.

Yay, he's an author. This situation has revealed that he is also a fucking asshole.

"In arrogance and ignorance" ? What?
He signed this deal after the Polish TV series and movie were massive failures, both commercially and critically, even though they were one of the biggest projects in the Polish TV and movie history, and then a small gaming studio went to him because they wanted to make their first game ever by using his work for it.. you really blame him for not believing in such a project? No one in his position would act differently, even though you should always try to go for royalties in cases like this
 

werezompire

Zeboyd Games
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
11,358
Just to add some more context here.

Before CDPR's Witcher games, there had been a previous attempt to make video games based on his work. This game was never finished so you can see why he'd be skeptical at another video game deal and take what he viewed as the safer deal.
Likewise, the fact that the Witcher book series had already had multiple adaptation attempts shows that CDPR wasn't doing him some sort of favor - his series was already a well-known property in many parts of the world.
There was an argument over whether the original contract was just for the original game or if gave CDPR permanent rights to the source material for however many games they wanted to make (as well as sub-licensing to games they didn't make).
There's a Polish law that basically says that a licensing deal can be renegotiated if the cost of the license & the profits derived from the license are drastically out of line.

So basically, if CDPR claims that the contract was for the license in perpetuity, there's no argument against the idea that what they paid and how much they're benefiting are way out of line. And if CDPR agrees with the writer that the license was only for the game(s) they originally presented him with, well, they'd need to renegotiate the other games anyway. Either way, CDPR was going to have to pay up so they agreed to a settlement.
 

Alienous

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,604
I don't look at this any differently to movies adapting comic book characters - when they are successful they deserve more than a pittance, even if there is no legal obligation to provide that. They should be able to look at an adaption of their creative work and not feel resentment. They shouldn't have their ignorance bilk them out of deserved royalties.
 

Yabberwocky

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,257
The guy's a jerk and made a mistake, but this is a great move on their part. I also do believe it's earned.

Yeah, this.

I don't get the vitriol towards Sapkowski; "stubborn bitter angry old man", etc. Some of you seem to take the "he doesn't believe in videogames" as a personal attack. His books are pretty great, and yes, the foundation of the videogames and the reason they took off to begin with.

I would dearly hope to see you in the situation of selling the rights to a work you put decades of your life into for 10k, then seeing a work based on it go on to sell millions and saying "nah, I don't want any of that money". It's so easy to claim the high moral ground when nobody is going to actually put you in that situation.

Be a bit more classy than this, Era. Or at least stop being aggressively ageist.

Also this.
 

s_mirage

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,771
Birmingham, UK
I don't particularly agree with this as AFAIK he signed the deal willingly and turned down royalties in order to take more up front cash. He gambled and lost.

If it is due to Polish law, well, it just seems crazy to me that someone can agree to a deal because it is advantageous to them in the short term and less risky, then come back and force a renegotiation years later because taking a royalty paying deal instead would have worked out better for them in the long term. I guess the law's the law though.
 
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Fosko

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,955
So, according to some users here, as the author was being mean to those who screwed him and were making millions out of his ip, he didn't deserved any of the money. Is that correct?
 
Mar 18, 2018
400
As much as I adore Witcher 3 I wish they kill the franchise now. Sorry, Sapkowski. I do hope that's the last of money you get from them. Get a life, write something good, live on the consequences of your stupid decision and don't be a dick.
 
Mar 18, 2018
400
he didn't deserved any of the money. Is that correct?
he got what he asked for. CDPR gave him a choice. Less money now, but you will be given royalties or more money now but now royalties.

He never believed in the games, he never provided help/advice, CDPR had to make two games, before the third game became success. One can argue that W3 was a success because of the hard work of CDPR and not the author of the universe.

It would be interesting to see the sell charts for the books after, during W3 release and campaign to see if maybe, just maybe, we already benefited from the games.
 

Captain of Outer Space

Come Sale Away With Me
Member
Oct 28, 2017
11,336
Good move on their part to not exploit the guy any further than he already has with his mistakes in undervaluing the license.
 

Nerokis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,567
The reaction to this seems to be situated around two things: one, whatever salt he's thrown in the direction of the games; two, the idea that he "made a choice" and should live with it.

#1 shouldn't be a factor at all - like, who cares what he thinks about video games as a medium or whatever? #2 is asking him to accept a fundamentally unfair scenario simply because he wasn't business savvy enough once upon a time, which is pretty much exactly the kind of logic frequently used to justify economic injustice.

Presumably, the settlement addresses some of the situation's unfairness in a way that also acknowledges the dude's role in the prior arrangement. That seems...good?
 

Fosko

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,955
he got what he asked for. CDPR gave him a choice. Less money now, but you will be given royalties or more money now but now royalties.

He never believed in the games, he never provided help/advice, CDPR had to make two games, before the third game became success. One can argue that W3 was a success because of the hard work of CDPR and not the author of the universe.

It would be interesting to see the sell charts for the books after, during W3 release and campaign to see if maybe, just maybe, we already benefited from the games.
He was an old man thatprobably didn't know shit about the videogame industry and the concept of a game selling for millions might have been alien to him. He also signed that contract for the first game when cd projekt was completely unknown, I'm sure he didn't know he was giving them the rights for all eternity.

Cd projekt was taking advantage of that ridiculous contract and they looked shady for doing so. But then cd projekt fans/gamers see an old man talking shit about them/videogames and he suddenly deserves to rot in a hole.