that's what they're doing. They're locking everything that day.
CDPR is a transphobic company. It's time we stop making excuses for them.
- Thread starter Kyuuji
- Start date
Yes I agree with this. I would love to see it for other companies too. Raise the awareness of the hateful things they do. I'm sorry that this is outside the realm of transphobia but I would love to see the site make these moves to raise awareness around companies like Ubisoft (two major games on the way), Blizzard, THQ Nordic, Rockstar, Atlus and many more. By the same token I'd love to see inclusive publishers and devs be celebrated for the good things they've done for the cause of inclusivity.
Sometimes it can be hard to find the right words to say, I can get that. The number of times I’ve drafted the first paragraph of a post online only to give up on it is immeasurable lol.
The thread earlier today about which publisher/dev people hate the most (locked within the first two pages) was quite something - apart from being a really ill-advised premise of a thread.
It did show that no issue in the current mainstream gaming community will ever trump micro-transactions or delays. Or just generally hating on EA because of that poll that happened years back.
Ubisoft's sexual misconduct? CDPR's transphobia and relentless crunch culture? Naughty Dog's Anti-Blackness? THQ Nordic's AMA on 8Chan? Using the Uighurs minority in China as forced labour? There's probably more.
Imagine literally ANY OTHER creative industry pulling that kind of shit - and videogames are not niche any more, they are the biggest creative industry there is on this planet right now and will remain on top for multiple generations.
If you then also add the reach the "Yellow Chairs" / influencers have surrounding that industry, who normalise this kind of behaviour by simply ignoring it to keep the "hype" going (and $$$ flowing), while critical engagement ends in death threats (see Gamergate), then you have the recipe for the most harmful, patriarchal & regressive creative industry today.
I'm saying this while Holywood still exists.
It did show that no issue in the current mainstream gaming community will ever trump micro-transactions or delays. Or just generally hating on EA because of that poll that happened years back.
Ubisoft's sexual misconduct? CDPR's transphobia and relentless crunch culture? Naughty Dog's Anti-Blackness? THQ Nordic's AMA on 8Chan? Using the Uighurs minority in China as forced labour? There's probably more.
Imagine literally ANY OTHER creative industry pulling that kind of shit - and videogames are not niche any more, they are the biggest creative industry there is on this planet right now and will remain on top for multiple generations.
If you then also add the reach the "Yellow Chairs" / influencers have surrounding that industry, who normalise this kind of behaviour by simply ignoring it to keep the "hype" going (and $$$ flowing), while critical engagement ends in death threats (see Gamergate), then you have the recipe for the most harmful, patriarchal & regressive creative industry today.
I'm saying this while Holywood still exists.
Daily Dot have run an article here:
www.dailydot.com
Cyberpunk 2077 is coming. Remember to listen to trans people about its problems
When discussing Cyberpunk 2077's transphobia, trans people should always be centered, writer Ana Valens argues.
www.dailydot.com
What's wrong with this?
Pretty popular mukbang video of a guy who put cheese in a chocolate fountain. It basically went terribly wrong and the guy was basically crying at the end but he persisted and finished the video anyway.
What I'm seeing in that video is a guy in a mess of his own making due to sheer stupidity, so it's pretty appropriate actually.
What isn’t wrong with it? The company is trying to play the sympathy card on social media when they are clearly transphobic and have been routinely outed as being one of the worst in the industry with crunch. Things didn’t just happen to them, they sowed all the division.
Not buying this game. Used to be a big CDPR fan around Witcher 2 and 3, and Cyberpunk is my favorite sub-genre of science fiction, but between the transphobia and the way they treat their workers, I'm done with CDPR.
Oof. Ana Valens. She's the author who wrote that creepy piece about tying her sex toy to the rumble output in Fall Guys, and was basically using other players, in a game children play, to get her off without their consent. Not sure if she's the best person to signal boost on these issues.Daily Dot have run an article here:
Cyberpunk 2077 is coming. Remember to listen to trans people about its problems
When discussing Cyberpunk 2077's transphobia, trans people should always be centered, writer Ana Valens argues.
I have no idea what they’re trying to do anymore. It’s all gone a bit Alan Partridge in terms of their social output.
The video was being used on twitter to show how much of a shitty day you had and stuff like this.
I guess they wanted some hugs because they had a rough week....
"We delayed the game another three weeks and are still overwhelming our employees with 80-plus-hour weeks. So here's this meme to make light of that situation and boost out social media engagement."
I like this article a lot.Daily Dot have run an article here:
Cyberpunk 2077 is coming. Remember to listen to trans people about its problems
When discussing Cyberpunk 2077's transphobia, trans people should always be centered, writer Ana Valens argues.
Like, I understand your ire in all this.
But I wouldn't expect their internal propaganda machine to stop just because of bad press, accusations or delays.
Remember, that account has posted several transphobic jokes before in the wake of such events. At least this is...some sort of progress.
I mean they've been there for, nye on a year now. The reality of the situation is they actually cannot stop (it would be irresponsible of their pr person to stop), but they also can't talk about the delay, the allegations, the actual workers problems and all of their canned premade stuff is exhausted.
So...time to post memes. I'm saying, let's not get caught up that a CM is doing their job and continue putting the pressure on the entities that need their feet held to the fire.
tangentially related and I've posted this in other threads but I strongly recommend the Shinigami Eyes extension as a quick n easy way to avoid sourcing/boosting transphobes in general
Hey OP,
I'm having a hard time finding a recent up to date statement about the voice and pronouns thing. Do you have a link?
I'm having a hard time finding a recent up to date statement about the voice and pronouns thing. Do you have a link?
I was really struggling with the idea of purchasing, but I just canceled my copy of CP2077. I actually feel really good about the decision.
Not the OP, but the voice / pronouns settings can be quickly seen in this preview video they released this month:
(0:24 if the timestamp doesn't work)
Also, from the article linked a few posts back:
Thanks for pointing that out to me. It happens so fast and the text is so tiny.
OP
OP
That article from Ana Valens is a solid one and it's nice to see her continue to put pressure on CDPR where she can, as someone who previously raised the issues around the Chromanticore advert when it originally broke. The point around the conversation always being centred around whether trans people's feelings are valid or not is on the money. One that we unfortunately see all too often in most instances of transphobia in and around media; from popular authors to comedians and games to films.
I'll use the opportunity for a cheeky grab for the OP as the existing one was much lower quality. Also, thanks for covering that in response to the query from tellmeyouloveme, much appreciated!Yeah it is.
Here’s a screenshot from the video:
Yup it's a super inflammatory and misleading claim. It's one of those statements that is so out there that processing it is a waste of time.
I think people tried, got exhausted, then moved on without commenting until now lol
Here's the piece. It blew up on games twitter and became a minor controversy for a day. There was, unfortunately, a pile-on by the usual suspects looking for any chance to yell at a trans woman, but the act itself was wrong and many progressive writers like Gita Jackson and others called it out as the creepy shit that it is. https://www.dailydot.com/irl/fall-guys-sex-toy-sex-tech/
By her own admission, it was a consensually dubious act, something she only started to consider mid-way through the endeavor. Understanding that you don't involve people in your sex acts and fetish play without their consent, even if they don't have a way of knowing what's happening, is basically sex/kink-positivity 101.
Consensually playing private matches with horny friends doing weird shit probably be a lot of fun, but I would be horrified to find out that some rando I was playing online with had been masturbating through our whole session.
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Oh I had no idea that she set it to activate upon interacting (bumping, grabbing, being grabbed) with someone. I thought she was using it to only move her character.
That, along with the fact that the other player is unaware that they are being used, does give a massive creeper vibe.
I still think the claims that she intentionally targeted children are unsubstantiated, however. The people calling her a pedo give a "lgbtq people accept pedophiles" vibe too. Bigots love to use that argument and will find any excuse to use it.
Didn't mean to suggest she was actively targeting children, apologies if it came off that way. Just meant to say that the fact that she used a game where children were more likely to be present adds another layer of things to be uncomfortable with in this situation.
Don't intend to derail the thread, so I'll drop this here.
OP
OP
Hard to take seriously on both counts but if it is, I'd err on making a thread about it if your concern is genuinely around raising awareness. Instead of solely invoking it whenever articles from her are posted. Especially those discussing how trans people's voices are sidestepped on these issues. That way you can facilitate both awareness and discussion of the topic without doing the things you claim to not be. As you mention it seems to have been largely relegated to twitter so there's merit in it having been missed by most here.
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OP
OP
To course-correct a little, the latest Jimquisition touches on the problems currently ongoing in Poland, in addition to the continuing discussion of crunch and worker exploitation at the company. There's also a recent video from i-D on the topic surrounding Polish LGBTQ+ youth that's also pertinent to that topic. I'll also copy the link to support people there from the video and the OP again for those interested.
Jim continues to be the backbone of the industry on many issues. I’m still never satisfied with the level of voice brought to these issues as a whole, but he does a wonderful job of trying to raise awareness, and I will never be ashamed to have him as an ally.
I’ll watch that I-D video later, I feel like it is extremely relevant to the discussions in this thread. Thank you for sharing!
I’ll watch that I-D video later, I feel like it is extremely relevant to the discussions in this thread. Thank you for sharing!
I'm sorry if this post is too off-topic or if this has already been discussed here. But seeing on the issue of the voice and pronouns in Cyberpunk, I remembered that I read a piece of news recently about Immortals from Ubisoft. And by the way, the pronouns will also be linked to the protagonist's voice. I don't know if Ubisoft gave any justification or if it will change in the final build. I know that it is difficult to adapt and dub for several languages, mainly for languages of Latin origin. In this case, I speak Portuguese and I know how difficult it is to adapt some things. But I hope that this does not become a trend and that in the future, players can choose the desired pronouns.
Anyway, thanks for that thread. It is very important and I hope that these problems will become more discussed and visible by the press during the game post-launch.
The Immortals Fenyx Rising news link: https://stevivor.com/features/in-depth/immortals-fenyx-rising-customisation-has-a-pronoun-problem/
(I don't know if this site is trusted or banned here on the forum. If so, I apologize.)
Anyway, thanks for that thread. It is very important and I hope that these problems will become more discussed and visible by the press during the game post-launch.
The Immortals Fenyx Rising news link: https://stevivor.com/features/in-depth/immortals-fenyx-rising-customisation-has-a-pronoun-problem/
(I don't know if this site is trusted or banned here on the forum. If so, I apologize.)
Literally broke my heart seeing this open hatred for anyone of the LGBTQ community in Poland. I always knew Eastern Europe was conservative, but this was too much. My own family in Haiti is homophobic, and the perpetually embattled President helped pass a law banning any non-traditional marriages through a constitutional change. Which was absurd, not needed, but certainly praised. All of these people are trash.To course-correct a little, the latest Jimquisition touches on the problems currently ongoing in Poland, in addition to the continuing discussion of crunch and worker exploitation at the company. There's also a recent video from i-D on the topic surrounding Polish LGBTQ+ youth that's also pertinent to that topic. I'll also copy the link to support people there from the video and the OP again for those interested.
Looking at the abyss of transphobia and prejudice in Poland, I'm not even remotely surprised at the debacle involving CDPR and Cyberpunk. As much as I adore the Witcher, it's forced me to re-contextualize everything on that game regarding representation.
Pronouns being tied to voice in any possible situation is just silly. Because with a few edge cases excluded, the only people using pronouns will be npcs! Which means they already have the lines recorded for multiple genders anyway. Even if not, VA budgets get peanuts anyway and could easily get more funds to afford additional lines without affecting the bottom line anyway.
Progression is good, but this halfhearted shit that isn’t more than surface level ‘inclusivity’ is more harmful than helpful, tbh.
Progression is good, but this halfhearted shit that isn’t more than surface level ‘inclusivity’ is more harmful than helpful, tbh.
OP
OP
It's definitely concerning how it's seeped into every level of discourse there. Now with them having effectively made abortion illegal one has to question where this puritanical crusade will end. LGBTQ+ people being driven out and women's rights being threatened seem only a precursor to further movement and people should be raising awareness where possible.
As you say when it's home ground for CDPR, and with the knowledge that they openly aim to reflect a range of political sympathies from staff in their game, it pushes you to contextualize their output within the political environment they operate within. Which, as we're seeing, is one that is more than happy to use LGBTQ+ people, the T in particular when it comes to CDPR, to further certain agendas. Be that political or corporate. Having one or two developers speak to trans rights on twitter is nice but does little to detract from the attitude of the company at large. One that exposes their own underhandedness toward our community, in addition to that of their staff and investors.
Completely. It would definitely require more budget and time for VA's to record the inverse of current options (e.g. she/her pronouns for low voice) but all of the lines are written as you say. When they've been content to throw massive amounts of budget toward everything else in the game, and with that lip-sync technology drastically reducing workload there, it's hard to give any faith to a desire of inclusivity. Going past the fact that had it been a desire from the start, we wouldn't have any of these issues to begin with, and they would have consulted with trans charities and organisations either in Poland or abroad. With everything as it is there's little to take from the character creator than a desire to have people be able to play trans bodies for laughs – like the recent cosplay promotion – at the expense of an actual consideration for our inclusion.
Poland already had the strictest abortion laws in Europe, and the tribunal went and pulled this shit for no reason. It's a rallying cry for the puritanical, authoritarian and conservative right. That shit is following the same instructions you see with Republicans in the US, and prejudice in Haiti and Latin America. Cultural conservatism is a disease and a blight on our society. Full stop. And the EU is completely useless and weak to have any united front on clipping the wings of Poland over this shit. And they want to take over the position of influence from the United States? We are so screwed.
To say nothing of how CDPR has been the golden standard of gaming companies for so many years. How much we were blind or ignorant of a company showing such disregard for trans people. This year and last election has taught me that we never really know anyone, that progress and never permanent, and no corporate entity is our ally or friend. I still hold steady on seeing what trans people actually think of Cyberpunk 2077, but I'm expecting a giant fucking mess on the issue. I wish they took the delay to adjust the game on its transphobic media and representation, but I have my doubts. The best I can hope for is that the ads and images are the worst, and that the characters, narrative and side missions are meek and harmless. I'd honestly would rather them take out everything they have with trans representation. Since they are likely gonna butcher the fuck outta the community.
wonder if there's going to be "political sympathy" for pro-lifers in cyberpunk. that stupid quote about "the human body is no longer viewed as sacred" re: transhumanism could so easily be extended to abortion. i'd like to think they wouldn't touch on the topic at all for fear of offending/putting off the chuds but at this point i wouldn't put anything past these assholes
It's really heartbreaking to see whats happening in Poland, we are only 200km from the border and I can't imagine how different the experience I've had in these last weeks coming out would be only a couple of hours drive away.
I am so sad for our Sisters and Brothers there :(
Apropos this thread and threads about CDPR, If we must allow the latter I would love for some forum trickery to make it that this thread is visible directly above any CDPR thread on the main page.
I am so sad for our Sisters and Brothers there :(
Apropos this thread and threads about CDPR, If we must allow the latter I would love for some forum trickery to make it that this thread is visible directly above any CDPR thread on the main page.
I have done reading of CDPR transbohia (sorry it's taken me this long), and I won't be support any of their projects coming up. Similarly, I won't be support Ubisoft due to their workplace harrassment and their inability to address it.
This all needs to stop.
This all needs to stop.
Though I wouldn't want to compare one situation against another as both are horrendous, but the fact Ubisoft has any signal here too with so many continuing "business as normal" threads given their history is just repugnant too. Ubisoft are trying their best to make people forget, and we are helping them do that.
Sorry to step off topic.
Definitely agree with that. Ubisoft is taking the approach of, if they don't bring up the issue, people will forget.
No game is worth making any group of people feel hatred or prejudice against them like CDPR is doing. On top of that, poor work conditions can't be overlooked either with CDPR or Ubi.
How does this work in non-english though? In Italian for example wouldn't a person identifying as a man (regardless of the tone of their voice) use masculine nouns?
(Sorry I'm sure this is covered somewhere in this massive thread)
This is an interesting suggestion - I wonder if it would be possible to tag everything CDPR related and automatically have an official staff communication (like the one on this thread) that highlights the issue and links to this thread.