Chelsea Manning: Cautionary Tale of Not Chilling with Alt-Righters If You Want Plausible Deniability

Dr. Monkey

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Anyone even trying the BUT SHE WENT ALONE AND MAGICALLY GOT PAIRED UP WITH THE ALT-RIGHT ELITE AND THEN POSED FOR PICTURES WITH THEM REALLY nonsense needs to have a seat and think about their choices for a bit. It's not mental gymnastics - it's a Simone Biles-level routine.
 

Lime

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Are you arguing Cardin is a centrist and she'd be better? lol...
You saw what Cardin did with that Israel bill? And hanging around with that fascist Lindsey Graham?

Ali's entire role in this is here's a picture of Manning hanging out with Fairbanks and alt-righters
I'm all for criticizing Manning for doing dumb shit like this and she needs to address this ASAP - and I will absolutely not construct dumb conspiracy theories, but Ali is way too cozy towards Cernovich and Fairbanks:

Regardless of Ali's motivations, Manning needs to address this immediately. it sounds so ridiculous when you consider this (I know, performative antifa, but w/e):


Given the way I've seen crackpot centrists throw out "Russian sleeper agent", I'm just wary with all the things right now. Still, like I said, Manning needs to come out and address it. But the struggle will continue with or without her, so it's not like this matters a lot (except for people who are trying to find an excuse to stay with status quo politicians)
 

LinktothePastGOAT

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Yes, well, that's all fine to believe. We're obviously going to have ideological disagreements regarding pretty much everything you're talking about, but I'm honestly asking you to not continue trying to dismiss the fact that many of us are expressing our severe disappointment in her right now, or dismissing the validity of that sentiment outright. Unlike Trumpers, alt-righters, and all around fascist types, we are actually here and participating in the conversation.
Fair enough.
 
Oct 26, 2017
10,495
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Oh no...Colin, Colin this is a bad take. You don't just coincidentally end up in an escape room with a bunch of alt-right figures
The funny part is them complaining about conspiracy theories when they immediately jumped onto two separate ones (coincidence then photoshop) to justify Chelsea being with Nazis. It's a horrible take.
 

L Thammy

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This is precisely the reason you want to run national unknowns for President from the left/liberal side of things tho, lets people fill in their own blanks.
I feel like this is the sort of the thing that makes sense in the immediate and just sets things up to be horrible into the future.
 

Kirblar

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I feel like this is the sort of the thing that makes sense in the immediate and just sets things up to be horrible into the future.
The reason people like "apolitical" celebs is because they don't know their positions and can write in a fanfic for the ones they don't know. Same holds true w/ people like Obama, Sanders, Bill Clinton when they ran for office.
 

Alucrid

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Regardless of Ali's motivations, Manning needs to address this immediately. it sounds so ridiculous when you consider this (I know, performative antifa, but w/e):

Given the way I've seen crackpot centrists throw out "Russian sleeper agent", I'm just wary with all the things right now. Still, like I said, Manning needs to come out and address it. But the struggle will continue with or without her, so it's not like this matters a lot (except for people who are trying to find an excuse to stay with status quo politicians)
well yeah of course it's performative. ain't gonna be curb stomping fascists in $700 boots
 
Oct 25, 2017
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i think its less that manning is secretly a white nationalist, and more that maybe some high profile conflicts between "hot take celebrities" aren't as deeply held as they portray

think of it as the trope of the defense attorney and prosecutor who are each other's throats during the trial, but get drinks together afterwards - that it's more about victory and self-promotion than the underlying issues

which is why it frustrates me when celebrities - who are not constrained with the responsibility of having to actually make change happen - are given far more benefit of the doubt than advocates
 

Lime

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I feel like this is the sort of the thing that makes sense in the immediate and just sets things up to be horrible into the future.
The reason people like "apolitical" celebs is because they don't know their positions and can write in a fanfic for the ones they don't know. Same holds true w/ people like Obama, Sanders, Bill Clinton when they ran for office.
uh, Manning has been pretty explicit about her political ambitions. Nothing apolitical about the stuff she's stated about ending imperialism, the prison system, the racist police force, etc.
 
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excelsiorlef

excelsiorlef

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I'm all for criticizing Manning for doing dumb shit like this and she needs to address this ASAP - and I will absolutely not construct dumb conspiracy theories, but Ali is way too cozy towards Cernovich and Fairbanks:
To be fair


He's consistent ;)

Anyway this dude sounds useless too... But in the end his role in this is to say here's a picture and here's who is in it.
 

Mezentine

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Oct 25, 2017
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i think its less that manning is secretly a white nationalist, and more that maybe some high profile conflicts between "hot take celebrities" aren't as deeply held as they portray

think of it as the trope of the defense attorney and prosecutor who are each other's throats during the trial, but get drinks together afterwards - that it's more about victory and self-promotion than the underlying issues

which is why it frustrates me when celebrities - who are not constrained with the responsibility of having to actually make change happen - are given far more benefit of the doubt than advocates
I don't think Manning is a white nationalist. But I think that the escape room picture paints a bad picture of what sort of crowd she is willing to consider her friends
 
Oct 25, 2017
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uh, Manning has been pretty explicit about her political ambitions. Nothing apolitical about the stuff she's stated about ending imperialism, the prison system, the racist police force, etc.
how does she plan to do that - what are some steps she plans to put into motion? if she's made some, i'd love to hear them: i was a fan of manning's everlasting positivity, but i don't recall seeing any specifics from her

and that role of encouraging people is very important! but it is distinctly different from actually setting those plans into motion

"ending imperialism" sounds wonderful, but i can't help but be suspicious when people are that vague with their intentions - is she going to take the hard steps towards accomplishing that goal? or will she make token efforts to sustain her celebrity without ever actually addressing these very serious efforts whilst admonishing those who do take those steps as not being good enough?

i don't have enough information yet to solidly make that determination either way - but i have my suspicions
 

Dr. Benton Quest

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I don't think Manning is a white nationalist. But I think that the escape room picture paints a bad picture of what sort of crowd she is willing to consider her friends
Yeah, I defended her in the other thread saying her actions were heroic. I still believe that's true, but this is unacceptable and ruins any credibility she had.

This really sucks.
 

Lime

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To be fair


He's consistent ;)

Anyway this dude sounds useless too... But in the end his role in this is to say here's a picture and here's who is in it.
Yeah, but I just don't trust people associated with the alt-right. Fabricate shit all the time, that's their M.O - seriously, they do it to all their targets - leftist professors, feminists, transactivists, socialists, etc. -> spread enough bullshit and let the people in the middle fall for it and distance themselves from the 'fabricated shitstained' targets. Not that this is the case here, just that this is what the fascists and nazis do. Like I said, I'll wait for more information, because all we have now is a picture (that doesn't look good at all, obviously) from someone who's openly buddy-buddy with Cernovich and Fairbanks. Once more information is out and Manning herself has stated something, I'll end up on a 'conclusion'.
 

Kirblar

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The reaction from the alt-righters "Hey we're respecting Trans people" *pulls receipts of speeches that day* and Chelsea *I was crashing* "..their escape room a month ago" both indicate that this wasn't really something that was supposed to leak out at this point in time and they're quickly trying to cover their ass on it.
 

Trojita

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Oct 25, 2017
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If I was trans I’d be super disappointed that the two women that plan on running are morons.

At least Danica Roem seems cool.
 

Mezentine

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Oct 25, 2017
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Wtf

I like Colin but this is a god-awful take
This is going to go bad. This is going to cause some battle lines to be drawn in a way that we don't need right now. If I'm angry at her for anything, its for that. The figure that she has been in the last year, to a lot of people that I follow, if all of that was a lie then this is just going to damage so many relationships needlessly
 

Chumley

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This is going to go bad. This is going to cause some battle lines to be drawn in a way that we don't need right now. If I'm angry at her for anything, its for that. The figure that she has been in the last year, to a lot of people that I follow, if all of that was a lie then this is just going to damage so many relationships needlessly
Stop following idols and figureheads.
 

Eylos

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Oct 25, 2017
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The reaction from the alt-righters "Hey we're respecting Trans people" *pulls receipts of speeches that day* and Chelsea *I was crashing* "..their escape room a month ago" both indicate that this wasn't really something that was supposed to leak out at this point in time and they're quickly trying to cover their ass on it.
I can see two scenarios,

1) she has explanations for that.

2) she's hypocrite and is using far-left rethoric to Win this audience, because she's most sucessful there, But she doesnt Care or believe really, she wants to build her political career only.

I Will wait for what she Will say and more news, But for now i believe in 2.
 

EasyRoad

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Oct 25, 2017
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Yeah, can't see how to defend her after this, and I was sympathetic to her senate campaign before...
 

LinktothePastGOAT

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You saw what Cardin did with that Israel bill? And hanging around with that fascist Lindsey Graham?
Yes...so because he took a bad stand on one issue he is a terrible Senator? SMH. Doug Jones voted for the Republican CR bill, does that make him a terrible Senator and worthy of being primaried? You do know that politicians on opposite sides of the aisle are often times friends...right? Obama became friends with Boehner... If that is going to be your criteria for who to vote for....
 

Cor

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Oct 25, 2017
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Yeah, can't see how to defend her after this, and I was sympathetic to her senate campaign before...
yarp. was of the mind that she wanna run in the primary? hey, that's what they're there for, have at it. better than running as third party and taking votes away from a dem. This tho? Fuck that. People that do this kinda thing have no business even pretending to run as democrats.
 

jon bones

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Oct 25, 2017
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Are those Proud Boys flanking him?
just had to look this up

a far-right men's organization[1][2][3][4] founded in 2016 by Vice Media co-founder and former commentator Gavin McInnes. McInnes describes the organization as a "pro-Western fraternal organization" for men who "refuse to apologize for creating the modern world
and so that makes sense until the next line

The group takes its name from the showtune "Proud of Your Boy," a song introduced in the 2011 stage-show version of Disney's Aladdin
which is just hilarious
 
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excelsiorlef

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Hmm weird I thought people in the old forums and this one referred to her as a trans woman. If she isn’t my apologies for misgendering her.
It's one of those things that got repeated enough that people who aren't assholes started believing it because in the end there's nothing wrong with being trans but yeah she's never said she was.
 

Dr. Benton Quest

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This is going to go bad. This is going to cause some battle lines to be drawn in a way that we don't need right now. If I'm angry at her for anything, its for that. The figure that she has been in the last year, to a lot of people that I follow, if all of that was a lie then this is just going to damage so many relationships needlessly
Yes. That take is just fucking bad too and doesn't stand up to base scrutiny.

People just need to accept that our heros can disappoint us, and that is not a reflection on the movement or ourselves.
 

Alucrid

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Oct 25, 2017
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Yes. That take is just fucking bad too and doesn't stand up to base scrutiny.

People just need to accept that our heros can disappoint us, and that is not a reflection on the movement or ourselves.
like, even if somehow she randomly ended up in an escape room group full of alt righters...she was demure enough to not only finish the room with them but also pose for a victory picture? how is that take any better?