Chris Evans Poses With A Young Girl And Her Gleeful Father (Ted Cruz, over Evans' new civic engagement project)

Oct 25, 2017
1,231
And Ted doesn't have from what I can recall views out of the tolerable range, yeah he's a right winger I don't share their ideas and don't like them but I won't actively ask to silence him.
Homophobia, transphobia,and Islamophobia are outside of the “tolerable range” - they’re pretty standard for Republicans, but that’s just because most Republicans are horrible people. He wants to turn the entirety of the Middle East into glass (presumably by nuking it) because he’s a racist sociopath.
 

BAD

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,501
USA

He's been working on this site for a while now. I remember a thread here (or maybe the other place?) Where a stink was raised cause people felt like Evans was "both sides"ing.
Personally I feel it's a noble endeavor to at least try to present the major platforms and ideas of both parties so people can have a place to refer to begin, as it says on the tin; A starting place.
The premise of the site is trash tbh. There’s no reason to let republicans go through talking points with a celebrity. It makes them and their disgusting platforms look better and more accessible if they get to put it in their words for a “listen to both sides from a trustworthy site!”
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,045
I think it's noble and misguided. The two sides that America has decided to allow representation (far right and center) are not the two sides that we should be conditioned to take for granted as the default and legitimate available world views.
Presumably, if the pitch in the video is still the same pitch being used now, he's going to be talking to politicians directly and using their answers. So assuming best intentions and implementation were going to see viewpoints from people like AOC that are more far left.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,938
I mean it will. Either he fails or succeeds... So... Time will tell. Even if he fails it's not like any major damage is done. Oh no, people have access to more info.
My point is it will not succeed, and that the platform itself will likely do actual harm by platforming and perpetuating hateful ideals.

And I'm confident that is true.
 

RedMercury

Member
Dec 24, 2017
9,906
It's not good to platform republicans and their ideologies. It will go exactly like this: "So, what are you guys all about?", "Well we just want smaller government really", they won't outright say they just want all gay/trans/nonwhite people either dead or gone, they present their ideas as things that make sense and then they radicalize people once they get them in the door.
 

NHarmonic.

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
6,654
You're never ever going to convince a right wing person to change their minds during a conversation just by presenting facts and arguments.

AOC talked about this a while back. It was not to make the person she was talking to change their minds there and then. Her approach was basically to just try and tell them how she viewed things and then move on. Maybe some of the people will think about what she told them, and maybe some of those that thought about what she told them will change their minds a bit on some things.
Yeah. However, it's usually very exhausting having to explain to people, in 2020, why some people deserve the same rights as everyone else, for example. It's terrible, and i completely understand why the left starts to treat them as dumb fuckers and deplorables because it gets to a point where they just don't want to see not everyone is cis, white, heterosexual and christian. And this is just one area of the debate.
 

Servbot24

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
21,801
Presumably, if the pitch in the video is still the same pitch being used now, he's going to be talking to politicians directly and using their answers. So assuming best intentions and implementation were going to see viewpoints from people like AOC that are more far left.
That seems even worse though. I can hear a politician talk any old time.
 

BAD

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,501
USA
I mean it will. Either he fails or succeeds... So... Time will tell. Even if he fails it's not like any major damage is done. Oh no, people have access to more info.
It's not good to platform republicans and their ideologies. It will go exactly like this: "So, what are you guys all about?", "Well we just want smaller government really", they won't outright say they just want all gay/trans/nonwhite people either dead or gone, they present their ideas as things that make sense and then they radicalize people once they get them in the door.
Yeah seriously. There’s no good that comes from letting Republicans give their talking points and presenting it as simple information to compare to Democrat platforms. The “we give you both sides of the info and you decide what’s best” approach to the Republicans here is terrible.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,045
,
My point is it will not succeed, and that the platform itself will likely do actual harm by platforming and perpetuating hateful ideals.

And I'm confident that is true.
You're complaining about giving Republicans a platform while they have a President in office and run the Senate. They're already legitimized and platformed. And they always will be as long as we continue to operate in a two party system anyways.
It's not good to platform republicans and their ideologies. It will go exactly like this: "So, what are you guys all about?", "Well we just want smaller government really", they won't outright say they just want all gay/trans/nonwhite people either dead or gone, they present their ideas as things that make sense and then they radicalize people once they get them in the door.
The website isn't "hey what do y'all Republicans like?" It's more like "This is what Republicans believe on this particular topic". Hopefully things like trans right, civil rights, immigration, etc will all be included in the topics. And also it seems like it won't just be the Republican view vs the Democratic but rather from a range of different politicians that may or may not agree even within the same party.

Im not thinking this is going to be perfect or anything and there very likely will be some tweaking and adjusting to be done, but I'm at interested to see how it goes.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,938
You're complaining about giving Republicans a platform while they have a President in office and run the Senate. They're already legitimized and platformed. And they always will be as long as we continue to operate in a two party system anyways.
Firstly I'm not "complaining", and wording it that way is very patronizing. I'm not just whining about something that's hurt my feelings, I'm talking from experience of having tried my hardest to actively engage with people who harbour hateful ideals in as diplomatic way as possible.

The problem with this site is it will give further platform to bigoted and hateful ideals with a celebrity face. It will further help humanize and normalize hateful "opinions" and views. Have you ever actually tried speaking with an entrenched bigot and trying to change their minds?

Simply presenting the harmful right-wing views will do what? We already know what they are...
Using them as a discussion "Starting point" will do what? We'll end up in the same place...

I've already explained while I feel this is futile:
The ONLY way I've ever got through to a right-wing bigot is to spend an exorbitant amount of time asking THEM questions and talking about THEIR fears and managing to get them to relate to me as an LGBT person... and finally seeing how certain opinions can harm me, which allowed them to see me as a person, like them, and have some empathy.

And that took A LOT of effort, for me to actually spend time coddling a bigot who was doing nothing but spew hate at me. It took hours, of non-stop, incredibly careful discussion where I had to tip-toe around being too critical of their hate while stomaching a constant barrage of bile.

And that was on a SINGLE point.

And that was the ONLY way it worked. Using facts and citations ALWAYS gets called fake news now. The only time you can use logic, citations, and facts is on centrists playing "both sides", and you sure better be fucking air tight so they can't find a SINGLE fucking point to cling to to discredit your entire argument.

People ITT saying "we need to talk" are ignoring the fact WE HAVE TRIED THIS. We didn't go from 0 to "DEPLATFORM" in an instant, we tried... our parents tried... their parents tried... individuals try until they just can't try any more because it becomes clear you cannot educate a person out of their hate on an individual levle unless you give your entire fucking soul to every single point that is raised... and how does a human being, especially a minority under the constant barrage of hate, have the capacity for that in any reasonable way?

-


And this is the point black folk were raising earlier, and I fully understand why.

We're all human yes, and all hate comes from a broken place, but at a certain point the hate we spew is our responsibility and it should be met with condemnation UNTIL that person has PROVEN change...not because they're crying as justice is served. And even then, why should the victims ever consider doing this?

Chris might have good intentions at heart, but what he's doing is coming from a position of privilege that doesn't grasp just how dangerous many of these "opinions" and views are because he has not lived through the harm they cause. He will never feel that, he will never truly understand it, and his calls for conversation feel patronizing and blind to how giving a platform to certain ideals perpetuate real harm.
 

BAD

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,501
USA
,

You're complaining about giving Republicans a platform while they have a President in office and run the Senate. They're already legitimized and platformed. And they always will be as long as we continue to operate in a two party system anyways.

The website isn't "hey what do y'all Republicans like?" It's more like "This is what Republicans believe on this particular topic". Hopefully things like trans right, civil rights, immigration, etc will all be included in the topics. And also it seems like it won't just be the Republican view vs the Democratic but rather from a range of different politicians that may or may not agree even within the same party.

Im not thinking this is going to be perfect or anything and there very likely will be some tweaking and adjusting to be done, but I'm at interested to see how it goes.
You are misinformed if you think there’s no effects from celebrities, particularly ones who seem politically outspoken to their followers like Chris, giving photos and positive exchanges to bad people and bad political views. It matters and it does boost whoever they choose to show themselves with. And that’s without even addressing the lack of principles being upheld by giving them such a chance to spin their bigotry on a both sides website promoted by a celebrity.
 

KingM

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,305
It's about a website where you can easily find what people within each party believe about a certain subject. It's conveniently disseminating information so the end user can begin their research and come to their own conclusions, thus being a more informed voter.
It's a bit pointless though in an age where individual websites get next to no influence compared to social media, YouTube, etc. It seems like a vanity project for Evans and not much else.
 

The Albatross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,903
What a strange title.

If you're looking for American political salvation from a movie star, you're not going to find it. You're going to find a movie star who is good at acting as an American savior.

Wonder what people's thoughts are on Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez working with Ted Cruz on lobbying and political influence reform?
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,045
The problem with this site is it will give further platform to bigoted and hateful ideals with a celebrity face. It will further help humanize and normalize hateful "opinions" and views. Have you ever actually tried speaking with an entrenched bigot and trying to change their minds?

Simply presenting the harmful right-wing views will do what? We already know what they are...
Using them as a discussion "Starting point" will do what? We'll end up in the same place...
LGBT+, Civil rights, etc, are all very cut and dry topics. What the Republicans believe with these is easy enough. But what about economics? Different aspects of foreign policy? Trade? Energy? Infrastructure?
Have you never run across a political subject that just goes straight over your head? Where do you even begin to look up info and that and see who wants what and why.
And if someone reads this site and thinks "well Chris Evans runs this, so if these opinions are on here then he must believe them!" That's on their dumbass. Evans hasn't been afraid to speak up and I don't think where he leans is really in question.
The website might be used in bad faith by some, and there are others that may only have their harmful views validated, but there is also the potential for a place where one can easily find a quick rundown on complex and nuanced topics to begin to educate themselves.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,938
LGBT+, Civil rights, etc, are all very cut and dry topics. What the Republicans believe with these is easy enough. But what about economics? Different aspects of foreign policy? Trade? Energy? Infrastructure?
Have you never run across a political subject that just goes straight over your head? Where do you even begin to look up info and that and see who wants what and why.
And if someone reads this site and thinks "well Chris Evans runs this, so if these opinions are on here then he must believe them!" That's on their dumbass. Evans hasn't been afraid to speak up and I don't think where he leans is really in question.
The website might be used in bad faith by some, and there are others that may only have their harmful views validated, but there is also the potential for a place where one can easily find a quick rundown on complex and nuanced topics to begin to educate themselves.
I've explained why I believe this site will do active harm. There is nothing to be gained from trying to speak with people who are entrenched in harmful right-wing views unless you devote your heart and fucking soul to appeasing them first and hoping they can make a connection via empathy, and those who are not entrenched do not need a site like this.

It might have some benefit for certain subjects, but it will also help perpetuate and normalize hate.

I'll be happy to be proven wrong, but nothing in my experience tells me I will be.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,045
I've explained why I believe this site will do active harm. There is nothing to be gained with trying to speak with people who are entrenched in harmful right-wing views, and those who are not do not need a site like this.

It might have some benefit for certain subjects, but it will also help perpetuate and normalize hate.

I'll be happy to be proven wrong, but nothing in my experience tells me I will.
Well I'm entrenched and I want a site like this. Because if it works I will be able to step into the booth with a bit more confidence in my vote with the knowledge gained.
And I'm curious as to why you think those that aren't entrenched don't need a site like this.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,938
Well I'm entrenched and I want a site like this. Because if it works I will be able to step into the booth with a bit more confidence in my vote with the knowledge gained.
And I'm curious as to why you think those that aren't entrenched don't need a site like this.
The site is not necessary... we've all managed to inform ourselves of the issues it will cover without it. And we continue to learn via discussion and research, this is by no means impossible.

Again, it might help others to access certain things easier and that could be a good thing, but will also cause harm by platforming a host of right-wing ideals it won't be able to avoid.
 
Oct 25, 2017
15,007
And what about of the paradox of not bringing this plataforms out in the open and having closeted fascists all around waiting for their perfect candidate? Which they finally had with Trump.

And Ted doesn't have from what I can recall views out of the tolerable range, yeah he's a right winger I don't share their ideas and don't like them but I won't actively ask to silence him.
Most of them weren't closeted you didn't see them because you didn't care

Also you just very transparently don't know shit about Ted Cruz
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,938
Are you sure about that? Who's this we?
There's also something to be said for the convenience factor. Like... I could manage to get to work without my car but boy is it a lot easier with it.
Yes, I'm sure it's possible for people to inform themselves perfectly well of all of these issues, right now, without the site.

And I don't think this site will suddenly make people who were not motivated to do so do much more.

And the site will platform hateful ideals, by default, and will help perpetuate and normalize them further.
 

lowmelody

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,354
The world does not need another platform for republicans to dress up their racism sexism in policy platitudes. They are purely anti humanity and no amount of extra syllables or dog whistles change that.

To spread their words in good faith is to spread their influence and the their effect on minorities, only naive useful idiots could think otherwise in 2020.
 

fanboi

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,291
Sweden
The site is not necessary... we've all managed to inform ourselves of the issues it will cover without it. And we continue to learn via discussion and research, this is by no means impossible.

Again, it might help others to access certain things easier and that could be a good thing, but will also cause harm by platforming a host of right-wing ideals it won't be able to avoid.
If Chris can get in touch with his fans that are going alt-reich and turn them in time, then the site does good, no? Of course this is based on, what I know about Chris, that he is a progressive.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,938
Unless he's specifically giving a platform to policies architected by the far right then I fail to see how some photographic PR can be read as a bad thing 🤷‍♀️.
We weren't talking about the photo.

For sure, if it isn't called out and questioned by him.

I hope he will.
Even then it could be. Going back to my point about actually trying to engage with entrenched bigots... it's next to impossible, and I don't see his celebrity making it easier, just giving further platform.
 

Addleburg

The Fallen
Nov 16, 2017
1,677
Yeah, I’m gonna at least wait for the website to come out before jumping on Chris Evans for his attempt.

We don’t know what topic he talked with Cruz about or even how much of it will make it to the final website.
 

Ramjag

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,405
A lot of naïveté in this thread because you guys like Captain America movies. What will the excuses be when the site launches and it’s exactly as worthless as it seems it’s going to be?
No one here needs to make an excuse for Chris Evans or his website. We’ll judge it when it comes out and continue going about our normal business either way. What else should we be doing? Talking a bunch of trash based on nothing?


Thank you Mr.Future for your insight. /s
Seriously.
 
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Jegriva

Banned
Sep 23, 2019
2,702
User Banned (2 Week): Hostility, inflammatory point of comparison
This site will not work. It's patronizing to minorities. His privilege is blinding him.

He could be coming from a good place, but ultimately this site isn't going to be part of an effective solution.
Thank you Mr.Future for your insight in judging things we don't know a thing about it.

A bit like Republicans with Islam.