Chris Evans Poses With A Young Girl And Her Gleeful Father (Ted Cruz, over Evans' new civic engagement project)

lowmelody

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,354
There are no unknown variables here. Either Evans in critical of republicans when they are rattling off their humanity draining poison and they no longer give him the time of day after the first couple interactions or he plays it right down the middle and gives them unchallenegd access to young people's developing sensibilities served up with a slice of that legitimizing charisma people seemed to be blinded by.
 

Tain

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,343
evans over here with Big Lib Brain, ready to recreate the marketplace of ideas

No one here needs to make an excuse for Chris Evans or his website. We’ll judge it when it comes out and continue going about our normal business either way. What else should we be doing? Talking a bunch of trash based on nothing?
Thank you Mr.Future for your insight in judging things we don't know a thing about it.

A bit like Republicans with Islam.
posters over here acting like it's unusual to speculate on a media discussion forum lol
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,938
Last edited:

shaneo632

Member
Oct 29, 2017
14,110
Essex, UK
The problem is that there isn't really any platform that I trust to be "neutral", if such a stance even exists. I am skeptical to the point where I am constantly second guessing and believing very little unless it's from an independent scientific body.

I'm sure Chris' intentions are pure but I'm not buying it.
 

Ramjag

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,405
evans over here with Big Lib Brain, ready to recreate the marketplace of ideas




posters over here acting like it's unusual to speculate on a media discussion forum lol
I don’t see what this post has to do with people being called naive and being asked what excuses they’ll be making when the show is “worthless” as if we’re responsible for the production.

Like sure, speculate. But if your speculation is pure silliness and hyperbole, people are going to discuss that as well on a discussion forum. Crazy concept, eh?
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,938
I don’t see what this post has to do with people being called naive and being asked what excuses they’ll be making when the show is “worthless” as if we’re responsible for the production.

Like sure, speculate. But if your speculation is pure silliness and hyperbole, people are going to discuss that as well on a discussion forum. Crazy concept, eh?
It's not pure silliness and hyperbole to understand the futility of trying to educate entrenched right-wing ideals with facts and logical debate.
 

Joni

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,829
And Ted doesn't have from what I can recall views out of the tolerable range, yeah he's a right winger I don't share their ideas and don't like them but I won't actively ask to silence him.
* Denies the scientific position on climate change
* Is opposed against gay marriage
* Is for outlawing boycots of Israel
* Considers UNs Agenda 21 a conspiracy theory
* Is in favor of the patriot act
* is strongly anti-abortion
* is opposed to a higher minimum wage
So if that is your tolerable range, you are part of the problem.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,938
* Denies the scientific position on climate change
* Is opposed against gay marriage
* Is for outlawing boycots of Israel
* Considers UNs Agenda 21 a conspiracy theory
* Is in favor of the patriot act
* is strongly anti-abortion
* is opposed to a higher minimum wage
So if that is your tolerable range, you are part of the problem.
I don't know why you needed to post this at this point... it should have been clear.

We need people in positions of power and influence to openly attempt to educate others why these things are bad, this can be done without allowing the people holding those views opportunity to make their pitch.
 

Frecklestein

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,571
The ONLY way I've ever got through to a right-wing bigot is to spend an exorbitant amount of time asking THEM questions and talking about THEIR fears and managing to get them to relate to me as an LGBT person... and finally seeing how certain opinions can harm me, which allowed them to see me as a person, like them, and have some empathy.

And that took A LOT of effort, for me to actually spend time coddling a bigot who was doing nothing but spew hate at me. It took hours, of non-stop, incredibly careful discussion where I had to tip-toe around being too critical of their hate while stomaching a constant barrage of bile.

And that was on a SINGLE point.

And that was the ONLY way it worked. Using facts and citations ALWAYS gets called fake news now. The only time you can use logic, citations, and facts is on centrists playing "both sides", and you sure better be fucking air tight so they can't find a SINGLE fucking point to cling to to discredit your entire argument.

People ITT saying "we need to talk" are ignoring the fact WE HAVE TRIED THIS. We didn't go from 0 to "DEPLATFORM" in an instant, we tried... our parents tried... their parents tried... individuals try until they just can't try any more because it becomes clear you cannot educate a person out of their hate on an individual levle unless you give your entire fucking soul to every single point that is raised... and how does a human being, especially a minority under the constant barrage of hate, have the capacity for that in any reasonable way?

-


And this is the point black folk were raising earlier, and I fully understand why.

We're all human yes, and all hate comes from a broken place, but at a certain point the hate we spew is our responsibility and it should be met with condemnation UNTIL that person has PROVEN change...not because they're crying as justice is served. And even then, why should the victims ever consider doing this?

Chris might have good intentions at heart, but what he's doing is coming from a position of privilege that doesn't grasp just how dangerous many of these "opinions" and views are because he has not lived through the harm they cause. He will never feel that, he will never truly understand it, and his calls for conversation feel patronizing and blind to how giving a platform to certain ideals perpetuate real harm.
Just wanted to say I really enjoyed this post, great write up.
 

NHarmonic.

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
6,654
The ONLY way I've ever got through to a right-wing bigot is to spend an exorbitant amount of time asking THEM questions and talking about THEIR fears and managing to get them to relate to me as an LGBT person... and finally seeing how certain opinions can harm me, which allowed them to see me as a person, like them, and have some empathy.

And that took A LOT of effort, for me to actually spend time coddling a bigot who was doing nothing but spew hate at me. It took hours, of non-stop, incredibly careful discussion where I had to tip-toe around being too critical of their hate while stomaching a constant barrage of bile.

And that was on a SINGLE point.

And that was the ONLY way it worked. Using facts and citations ALWAYS gets called fake news now. The only time you can use logic, citations, and facts is on centrists playing "both sides", and you sure better be fucking air tight so they can't find a SINGLE fucking point to cling to to discredit your entire argument.

People ITT saying "we need to talk" are ignoring the fact WE HAVE TRIED THIS. We didn't go from 0 to "DEPLATFORM" in an instant, we tried... our parents tried... their parents tried... individuals try until they just can't try any more because it becomes clear you cannot educate a person out of their hate on an individual levle unless you give your entire fucking soul to every single point that is raised... and how does a human being, especially a minority under the constant barrage of hate, have the capacity for that in any reasonable way?

-


And this is the point black folk were raising earlier, and I fully understand why.

We're all human yes, and all hate comes from a broken place, but at a certain point the hate we spew is our responsibility and it should be met with condemnation UNTIL that person has PROVEN change...not because they're crying as justice is served. And even then, why should the victims ever consider doing this?

Chris might have good intentions at heart, but what he's doing is coming from a position of privilege that doesn't grasp just how dangerous many of these "opinions" and views are because he has not lived through the harm they cause. He will never feel that, he will never truly understand it, and his calls for conversation feel patronizing and blind to how giving a platform to certain ideals perpetuate real harm.
Great post. I’d argue most people that want to talk are neither minorities or have a single clue about the issues at hand. When you live constantly attacked you don’t have patience to pamper right fuckers and their bullshit, and you shouldn’t either.
 

Ramjag

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,405
It's not pure silliness and hyperbole to understand the futility of trying to educate entrenched right-wing ideals with facts and logical debate.
That’s where we differ. I have my doubts, but I’ll just wait and see what he puts out. I’m cynical about almost everything, but I’d much rather do that and you can keep telling us how awful it’s going to be and we’ll just both find out when it releases.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,938
That’s where we differ. I have my doubts, but I’ll just wait and see what he puts out. I’m cynical about almost everything, but I’d much rather do that and you can keep telling us how awful it’s going to be and we’ll just both find out when it releases.
You're saying this like I don't involve myself in IRL grass-roots community solutions instead of throwing myself at the online wall over and over.... I'm not just sitting here saying "it all sucks, we're defeated".

If you want to do that, be my guest. I can only call it based on my experience of trying my fucking hardest to do this countless times.
 

Molecule

Member
Nov 2, 2017
866
I think there's potential here. They will put their answers forward with links that present evidence and backup their answers. What will happen when they provide links to sites that are known to be untrustworthy or biased? I wonder how much, if any, questioning or testing people's answers there will be. Doesn't Chris have left leaning political views? That might discredit this whole thing to a lot of people. This will be hard to pull off and I'm not sure if he can pull through but I'm hopeful that this ends up being a good thing.
 

Ramjag

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,405
You're saying this like I don't involve myself in IRL grass-roots community solutions instead of throwing myself at the online wall over and over.

If you want to do that, be my guest.
Not making accusations of anything. I don’t need your resume, mate (not that it means much online anyhow). You don’t need to prove a thing to me just like other posters don’t need to make excuses for some show a celebrity is doing.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,938
Not making accusations of anything. I don’t need your resume, mate (not that it means much online anyhow). You don’t need to prove a thing to me just like other posters don’t need to make excuses for some show a celebrity is doing.
Your post was implying I was being needlessly defeatist about the idea when I'm not. There are ways to engage that actually help lead to lasting change, and as I've explained I do not believe it's online in a place like the one being proposed.

And it is not "silly hyperbole" that's leading that statement.
 

N. Tyranno

Member
Nov 6, 2017
2,622
I don’t have to agree with Republicans to think knowing what their platform is saying. I like knowing all the facts, even if it’s something I’m opposed against. That way I have a clearer idea of what exactly it is I’m opposing. It’s not a matter of both sidesing anything, it’s about providing a base level of knowledge that can be used for political engagement.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,938
I don’t have to agree with Republicans to think knowing what their platform is saying. I like knowing all the facts, even if it’s something I’m opposed against. That way I have a clearer idea of what exactly it is I’m opposing. It’s not a matter of both sidesing anything, it’s about providing a base level of knowledge that can be used for political engagement.
And I think people have fairly deconstructed why "political engagement" on a platform like this will almost certainly be futile.
 
Oct 26, 2017
3,708
Chris is wasting his time. Ted Cruz has no core ethos. He'll say whatever he needs to come out on top.

Just listen to the episode of Why Is This Happening w/Chris Hayes where he interviewed Ted Cruz.

Just prepare yourself because you will start screaming into the ether.


I'm not lying when I say you can literally hear the exasperated look on Hayes face.
 
Oct 26, 2017
3,708
Some of y’all really have never engaged opposing viewpoints outside of the internet and it shows.
A lot of us have. But hey have fun with your baseless assumption 👍

WRT the site (from the Wired article):
First, A Starting Point would give politicians free rein to answer questions as they pleased—no editing, no moderation, no interjections. Second, they would hire fact-checkers to make sure they weren’t promoting misinformation. Third, they would design a site that privileged diversity of opinion, where you could watch a dozen different people answering the same question in different ways.
It does sound a lot like those Ben Shapiro/Rubin/Prager channels with two major differences. This will have fact checkers and actual competing viewpoints. So that gives me some hope.

But with Republicans and right-wingers already painting fact checks as liberal propaganda or outright dismissing them, I have a lot of hesitation.
 
Last edited:

Baji Boxer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,717
On the bright side, I'm glad Cruz's daughter had something to smile about. It's got to be misserable living with that dude. Like, how do you really respect your father after he's thrown his lot in 100% with the guy who trashed your family in front of an audience in the millions?
 

Rendering...

Member
Oct 30, 2017
10,360
Whoever took that photo should have scraped the crud off the lens first. There's a vaguely humanoid blob next to Chris and that little girl, and it's ruining the picture.
 

Idde

Member
Oct 27, 2017
307
Your post was implying I was being needlessly defeatist about the idea when I'm not. There are ways to engage that actually help lead to lasting change, and as I've explained I do not believe it's online in a place like the one being proposed.

And it is not "silly hyperbole" that's leading that statement.
Unfortunately, I agree with this, and with the long and detailed post you made. The only times I ever got people to think about their backwards views was to make them think. Ask them questions in an attempt for them to see their blind spots, their cognitive incongrueties (not sure if that's a word) and make them see, and (and more important) feel that the things they think are backwards. And harmful to people who are just...people who want to exist. Which takes a loooot of time and effort.

I agree with Evans that people should get to know all the facts and viewpoints on a certain issue, and base their decision on that information. Make up their mind based on facts. In an ideal world. However, facts seem to become less and less important, all that matters is feelings. And unfortunately fear for people that are different is really easy to foster. And promising them safety from that fear is a surefire way to attach people to you. And of course, fear breeds all sorts of shit like racism and hate. Trump (and Fox News) has done nothing but promote that fear and racism and bigotry. Facts don't just weigh up against it, especially given Trump's war on facts and logic.

So ultimately, I applaud Evans for doing SOMETHING, but I highly doubt it'll have any effect. He'd be better of changing peoples minds through talking to people and make them think...but that's not gonna happen...
 

Sesuadra

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,945
A lot of naïveté in this thread because you guys like Captain America movies. What will the excuses be when the site launches and it’s exactly as worthless as it seems it’s going to be?
Why should there be an excuse then? If it launches and it’s garbage it should be critiqued accordingly.
 

RedMercury

Member
Dec 24, 2017
9,906
This is what I think

I feel like he shouldn’t refuse a photo with her just because she’s Ted Cruz’s daughter. Doesn’t mean he supports Ted Cruz.

it’s just a picture
It's possible Cruz played him by jumping in the photo, he knew he'd get a positive rub from posing with a huge star and also a guy many consider progressive. If it were me, I'd say "I'd rather not take a picture with you" but if Cruz's kid is standing right there that would be an awkward thing so he wouldn't want to say that.
What is your opposition to what they said? How do you believe the site will be a net benefit?