No one here needs to make an excuse for Chris Evans or his website. We'll judge it when it comes out and continue going about our normal business either way. What else should we be doing? Talking a bunch of trash based on nothing?
Thank you Mr.Future for your insight in judging things we don't know a thing about it.
A bit like Republicans with Islam.
So, we have no information or experience to suggest how futile it is to try to educate entrenched right-wing views with logical, fact based discussion?Thank you Mr.Future for your insight in judging things we don't know a thing about it.
If you really think this your thought process is broken.
evans over here with Big Lib Brain, ready to recreate the marketplace of ideas
posters over here acting like it's unusual to speculate on a media discussion forum lol
It's not pure silliness and hyperbole to understand the futility of trying to educate entrenched right-wing ideals with facts and logical debate.I don't see what this post has to do with people being called naive and being asked what excuses they'll be making when the show is "worthless" as if we're responsible for the production.
Like sure, speculate. But if your speculation is pure silliness and hyperbole, people are going to discuss that as well on a discussion forum. Crazy concept, eh?
* Denies the scientific position on climate changeAnd Ted doesn't have from what I can recall views out of the tolerable range, yeah he's a right winger I don't share their ideas and don't like them but I won't actively ask to silence him.
Imagine if Captain America ran for President one day. He'd win in a landslide.
I don't know why you needed to post this at this point... it should have been clear.* Denies the scientific position on climate change
* Is opposed against gay marriage
* Is for outlawing boycots of Israel
* Considers UNs Agenda 21 a conspiracy theory
* Is in favor of the patriot act
* is strongly anti-abortion
* is opposed to a higher minimum wage
So if that is your tolerable range, you are part of the problem.
The ONLY way I've ever got through to a right-wing bigot is to spend an exorbitant amount of time asking THEM questions and talking about THEIR fears and managing to get them to relate to me as an LGBT person... and finally seeing how certain opinions can harm me, which allowed them to see me as a person, like them, and have some empathy.
And that took A LOT of effort, for me to actually spend time coddling a bigot who was doing nothing but spew hate at me. It took hours, of non-stop, incredibly careful discussion where I had to tip-toe around being too critical of their hate while stomaching a constant barrage of bile.
And that was on a SINGLE point.
And that was the ONLY way it worked. Using facts and citations ALWAYS gets called fake news now. The only time you can use logic, citations, and facts is on centrists playing "both sides", and you sure better be fucking air tight so they can't find a SINGLE fucking point to cling to to discredit your entire argument.
People ITT saying "we need to talk" are ignoring the fact WE HAVE TRIED THIS. We didn't go from 0 to "DEPLATFORM" in an instant, we tried... our parents tried... their parents tried... individuals try until they just can't try any more because it becomes clear you cannot educate a person out of their hate on an individual levle unless you give your entire fucking soul to every single point that is raised... and how does a human being, especially a minority under the constant barrage of hate, have the capacity for that in any reasonable way?
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Chris Evans Slammed for Praising Botham Jean's Brother for Forgiving and Hugging Amber Guyger
Brandt Jean himself has been criticized by a lot of people for forgiving the white cop who killed his 26-year-old brother in his own apartment in early last month.www.aceshowbiz.com
And this is the point black folk were raising earlier, and I fully understand why.
We're all human yes, and all hate comes from a broken place, but at a certain point the hate we spew is our responsibility and it should be met with condemnation UNTIL that person has PROVEN change...not because they're crying as justice is served. And even then, why should the victims ever consider doing this?
Chris might have good intentions at heart, but what he's doing is coming from a position of privilege that doesn't grasp just how dangerous many of these "opinions" and views are because he has not lived through the harm they cause. He will never feel that, he will never truly understand it, and his calls for conversation feel patronizing and blind to how giving a platform to certain ideals perpetuate real harm.
The ONLY way I've ever got through to a right-wing bigot is to spend an exorbitant amount of time asking THEM questions and talking about THEIR fears and managing to get them to relate to me as an LGBT person... and finally seeing how certain opinions can harm me, which allowed them to see me as a person, like them, and have some empathy.
And that took A LOT of effort, for me to actually spend time coddling a bigot who was doing nothing but spew hate at me. It took hours, of non-stop, incredibly careful discussion where I had to tip-toe around being too critical of their hate while stomaching a constant barrage of bile.
And that was on a SINGLE point.
And that was the ONLY way it worked. Using facts and citations ALWAYS gets called fake news now. The only time you can use logic, citations, and facts is on centrists playing "both sides", and you sure better be fucking air tight so they can't find a SINGLE fucking point to cling to to discredit your entire argument.
People ITT saying "we need to talk" are ignoring the fact WE HAVE TRIED THIS. We didn't go from 0 to "DEPLATFORM" in an instant, we tried... our parents tried... their parents tried... individuals try until they just can't try any more because it becomes clear you cannot educate a person out of their hate on an individual levle unless you give your entire fucking soul to every single point that is raised... and how does a human being, especially a minority under the constant barrage of hate, have the capacity for that in any reasonable way?
-
Chris Evans Slammed for Praising Botham Jean's Brother for Forgiving and Hugging Amber Guyger
Brandt Jean himself has been criticized by a lot of people for forgiving the white cop who killed his 26-year-old brother in his own apartment in early last month.www.aceshowbiz.com
And this is the point black folk were raising earlier, and I fully understand why.
We're all human yes, and all hate comes from a broken place, but at a certain point the hate we spew is our responsibility and it should be met with condemnation UNTIL that person has PROVEN change...not because they're crying as justice is served. And even then, why should the victims ever consider doing this?
Chris might have good intentions at heart, but what he's doing is coming from a position of privilege that doesn't grasp just how dangerous many of these "opinions" and views are because he has not lived through the harm they cause. He will never feel that, he will never truly understand it, and his calls for conversation feel patronizing and blind to how giving a platform to certain ideals perpetuate real harm.
That's where we differ. I have my doubts, but I'll just wait and see what he puts out. I'm cynical about almost everything, but I'd much rather do that and you can keep telling us how awful it's going to be and we'll just both find out when it releases.It's not pure silliness and hyperbole to understand the futility of trying to educate entrenched right-wing ideals with facts and logical debate.
You're saying this like I don't involve myself in IRL grass-roots community solutions instead of throwing myself at the online wall over and over.... I'm not just sitting here saying "it all sucks, we're defeated".That's where we differ. I have my doubts, but I'll just wait and see what he puts out. I'm cynical about almost everything, but I'd much rather do that and you can keep telling us how awful it's going to be and we'll just both find out when it releases.
You're saying this like I don't involve myself in IRL grass-roots community solutions instead of throwing myself at the online wall over and over.
If you want to do that, be my guest.
Your post was implying I was being needlessly defeatist about the idea when I'm not. There are ways to engage that actually help lead to lasting change, and as I've explained I do not believe it's online in a place like the one being proposed.Not making accusations of anything. I don't need your resume, mate (not that it means much online anyhow). You don't need to prove a thing to me just like other posters don't need to make excuses for some show a celebrity is doing.
And I think people have fairly deconstructed why "political engagement" on a platform like this will almost certainly be futile.I don't have to agree with Republicans to think knowing what their platform is saying. I like knowing all the facts, even if it's something I'm opposed against. That way I have a clearer idea of what exactly it is I'm opposing. It's not a matter of both sidesing anything, it's about providing a base level of knowledge that can be used for political engagement.
How do you really feelSome of y'all really have never engaged opposing viewpoints outside of the internet and it shows.
A lot of naïveté in this thread because you guys like Captain America movies. What will the excuses be when the site launches and it's exactly as worthless as it seems it's going to be?
Some of y'all really have never engaged opposing viewpoints outside of the internet and it shows.
A lot of us have. But hey have fun with your baseless assumption 👍Some of y'all really have never engaged opposing viewpoints outside of the internet and it shows.
It does sound a lot like those Ben Shapiro/Rubin/Prager channels with two major differences. This will have fact checkers and actual competing viewpoints. So that gives me some hope.First, A Starting Point would give politicians free rein to answer questions as they pleased—no editing, no moderation, no interjections. Second, they would hire fact-checkers to make sure they weren't promoting misinformation. Third, they would design a site that privileged diversity of opinion, where you could watch a dozen different people answering the same question in different ways.
Your post was implying I was being needlessly defeatist about the idea when I'm not. There are ways to engage that actually help lead to lasting change, and as I've explained I do not believe it's online in a place like the one being proposed.
And it is not "silly hyperbole" that's leading that statement.
Imagine if Captain America ran for President one day. He'd win in a landslide.
Related:
Caught up with @ChrisEvans and @MarkKassen this morning on the upcoming launch of #AStartingPoint, their new civic engagement project to help folks stay informed and break down hot-button issues. I'm glad to work with Captain America on this important, bipartisan mission.
Why should there be an excuse then? If it launches and it's garbage it should be critiqued accordingly.A lot of naïveté in this thread because you guys like Captain America movies. What will the excuses be when the site launches and it's exactly as worthless as it seems it's going to be?
It's possible Cruz played him by jumping in the photo, he knew he'd get a positive rub from posing with a huge star and also a guy many consider progressive. If it were me, I'd say "I'd rather not take a picture with you" but if Cruz's kid is standing right there that would be an awkward thing so he wouldn't want to say that.This is what I think
I feel like he shouldn't refuse a photo with her just because she's Ted Cruz's daughter. Doesn't mean he supports Ted Cruz.
it's just a picture
What is your opposition to what they said? How do you believe the site will be a net benefit?