Chris Lee (loot box bills): "ESA lobbyists roaming the halls of the state capitol here as we speak"

Oct 25, 2017
10,716
#1
Chris Lee, the state representative from Hawaii who wants to take action against video games with "predatory" loot boxes, believes we are in the midst of a turning point when it comes to the video game industry and its business practices. The industry has to stop taking advantage of players with exploitive practices related to microtransactions, he told GameSpot in an interview. The time is right now due to the "generational transition" where lawmakers and people in power are becoming more attuned to video games.

"We have to try and stand up for what is right," Lee said. "I think it is inevitable that, whether it was spurred by Battlefront or some of the recent big-title games just being so ridiculously exploitative of the player base, there is enough of generational transition in politics and positions of authority around the country and the world, that you have people who understand what the industry is doing and are willing to stand up and take action and do something about it. Inevitably, the industry will have to change.

"Because more and more jurisdictions are going to start protecting their citizens from the kinds of exploitive and predatory practices that the industry has been employing lately. Inevitably, that means a better industry for everybody and better games for everybody."
"There are ESA lobbyists roaming the halls of the state capitol here as we speak who have been flown out to try and stop any sort of conversation about these issues from happening," he said.

We have followed up with the ESA in an attempt to get more details on its ambitions as it relates to Lee's bills and others with similar language in state legislatures across the US.
More @ https://www.gamespot.com/articles/ridiculously-exploitive-loot-boxes-must-change-law/1100-6456798/

First time I haven't copied the title 1:1, but it's the nugget above from this article that makes it stand out from yet another loot box topic. (even if this is yet another loot box topic)
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,334
Milano - Italy
#7
I'm sure many will hate me for saying this, but I'm amazed by how this politician can parade around with a massive holier than thou attitude after he started this whole campaign with a massive bold-faced lie on video.

The whole thing began with him falsely defining Star Wars Battlefront a "star wars themed online casino" when Star Wars Battlefront had already deactivated microtransactions a while before. You can't have a casino where you can't spend money. I would be surprised if he doesn't get called on it sooner or later, which he should, even if politics and lies go hand-in-hand nowadays.

The initial video with the mom, the priest, and the stereotypically unkempt (probably fake) "gamer" pleading for his kids was the climax of pathetic and reminded me of times that I hoped were gone. He's appealing to feeling instead of rationality, and I definitely question his honesty in this. Seems like a consensus grab to me.
 
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Oct 27, 2017
7,861
Southern California
#12
I am sure you quoted 3 video game publishers, and not 3 normal gamers whose boycott would do jack shit.
If people now hate the ESA so much, then don't watch any E3 streams. Don't consume any E3 content or engage with anything E3 related on social media. And absolutely don't pay them for a ticket to attend the show. Aside from the ESRB, E3 is their big thing.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,697
#13
I'm sure many will hate me for saying this, but I'm amazed by how this politician can parade around with a massive holier than thou attitude after he started this whole campaign with a massive bold-faced lie on video.

The whole thing began with him defining a Star Wars Battlefront a "star wars themed online casino" when Star Wars Battlefront had already deactivated microtransactions a while before. You can't have a casino where you can't spend money. I would be surprised if he doesn't get called on it sooner or later, which he should, even if politics and lies go hand-in-hand nowadays.

The initial video with the mom, the priest, and the stereotypically unkempt (probably fake) "gamer" pleading for his kids was the climax of pathetic and reminded me of times that I hoped were gone. He's appealing to feeling instead of rationality, and I definitely question his honesty in this. Seems like a consensus grab to me.
If he truly cared about children he would have done this nearly a decade ago when these systems appeared in FIFA and Madden. Suddenly a video game he likes has them and we gotta protect the children! The veil is so thin it might as well not be there at all.
 
Nov 7, 2017
5,781
#14
If people now hate the ESA so much, then don't watch any E3 streams. Don't consume any E3 content or engage with anything E3 related on social media. And absolutely don't pay them for a ticket to attend the show. Aside from the ESRB, E3 is their big thing.
Or what? They are all hypocrites and should not complain about the ESA?

We can be vocal about an organisation and still consume the ancialliary shit that comes out of it's events.
 
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Audioboxer
Oct 25, 2017
10,716
#15
If he truly cared about children he would have done this nearly a decade ago when these systems appeared in FIFA and Madden. Suddenly a video game he likes has them and we gotta protect the children! The veil is so thin it might as well not be there at all.
Chris Lee is like 34 or something. He was probably still studying 10 years ago.

Edit: 37. FIFA ain't too popular in the States either. That's more for us Football, I mean Soccer loving Europeans.
 
Nov 23, 2017
1,472
#16
I'm sure many will hate me for saying this, but I'm amazed by how this politician can parade around with a massive holier than thou attitude after he started this whole campaign with a massive bold-faced lie on video.

The whole thing began with him falsely defining Star Wars Battlefront a "star wars themed online casino" when Star Wars Battlefront had already deactivated microtransactions a while before. You can't have a casino where you can't spend money. I would be surprised if he doesn't get called on it sooner or later, which he should, even if politics and lies go hand-in-hand nowadays.

The initial video with the mom, the priest, and the stereotypically unkempt (probably fake) "gamer" pleading for his kids was the climax of pathetic and reminded me of times that I hoped were gone. He's appealing to feeling instead of rationality, and I definitely question his honesty in this. Seems like a consensus grab to me.
How dare someone actually care about something!
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,334
Milano - Italy
#17
If he truly cared about children he would have done this nearly a decade ago when these systems appeared in FIFA and Madden. Suddenly a video game he likes has them and we gotta protect the children! The veil is so thin it might as well not be there at all.
I doubt what video game he likes has anything to do with it, if he even likes games at all, since saying "I played games all my life" is a very easy thing to claim in order to appear involved. More likely, Star Wars is simply big enough for him to appeal to feelings and grab as much visibility as he can, which seems to me the whole reason he's doing this for.

His whole video campaign stinks of fake so much that i'm surprised that they didn't add canned laugher when he made the "it's a trap" joke.

How dare someone actually care about something!
If you "actually care" about something, you don't openly lie about it.

Even in the (unlikely, since it was all over the net) case that he was misinformed, someone who actually cares about something at the very least reads what's happening about it.
 
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Audioboxer
Oct 25, 2017
10,716
#22
I doubt what video game he likes has anything to do with it, if he even likes games at all, since saying "I played games all my life" is a very easy thing to claim in order to appear involved. More likely, Star Wars is simply big enough for him to appeal to feelings and grab as much visibility as he can, which seems to me the whole reason he's doing this for.

His whole video campaign stinks of fake so much that i'm surprised that they didn't add canned laugher when he made the "it's a trap" joke.



If you "actually care" about something, you don't openly lie about it.

Even in the (unlikely, since it was all over the net) case that he was misinformed, someone who actually cares about something at the very least reads what's happening about it.
You should probably actually research the guy before delivering drive-by takes of "I don't think he's a gamer so he must not be".


Dude knows what he is talking about there

and from his channel watch the other videos from the main one that went viral

 
Oct 27, 2017
1,334
Milano - Italy
#23
You should probably actually research the guy before delivering drive-by takes of "I don't think he's a gamer so he must not be".


Dude knows what he is talking about there

and from his channel watch the other videos from the main one that went viral

I saw enough. And it's entirely possible that all of that is just as canned as Snoop Dogg "playing" SOS on Twitch.

Yet whether he's a "gamer" or not, the fact remains that he openly lied about the issue to grab attention, which you have not addressed.

As a matter of fact, if he's actually involved as you think he is, it being a bold-faced lie is even more probable as opposed to being simply misinformed by some lazy advisor.
 
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Audioboxer
Oct 25, 2017
10,716
#24
I saw enough. And it's entirely possible that all of that is just as canned as Snoop Dogg "playing" SOS on Twitch.

Yet whether he's a "gamer" or not, the fact remains that he openly lied about the issue to grab attention, which you have not addressed.
To absolve your inner frustration of someone you don't like you'll just go with "conspiracy theories".

The "stars wars battlefront casino" remark was partially hyperbole to attack pay to win gaming being mixed with the paid chance mechanism in a $60 product around an IP loved by young audiences. Not many people got that hot and bothered about that remark as they "got it".
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,334
Milano - Italy
#25
To absolve your inner frustration of someone you don't like you'll just go with "conspiracy theories".

The "stars wars battlefront casino" remark was partially hyperbole to attack pay to win gaming being mixed with the paid chance mechanism. Not many people got that hot and bothered about that remark as they "got it".
Hyperbole is an exaggerated statement. The definition of exaggeration involves a modicum of truth inflated for effect. That element of truth is not involved here.

Calling Star Wars Battlefront 2 an online casino after any way to spend money on it had been deactivated is not hyperbole or exaggeration. It's simply a falsehood.
 
Oct 30, 2017
1,639
Canada
#26
The whole thing began with him falsely defining Star Wars Battlefront a "star wars themed online casino" when Star Wars Battlefront had already deactivated microtransactions a while before. You can't have a casino where you can't spend money.
"Officer, I wasn't murdering that guy. Look, I'm clearly not stabbing him this very instant. Yes, I was stabbing him in the past, and intend to stab him in the future, but I'm not currently stabbing him, am I? I rest my case!"
 
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Audioboxer
Oct 25, 2017
10,716
#27
Hyperbole is an exaggerated statement. The definition of exaggeration involves a modicum of truth inflated for effect. That element of truth is not involved here.

Calling Star Wars Battlefront 2 an online casino after any way to spend money on it had been deactivated is not hyperbole or exaggeration. It's simply a falsehood.
You could say

"This game is a Star Wars-themed online casino designed to lure kids into spending money; it's a trap."
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,540
#28
You should probably actually research the guy before delivering drive-by takes of "I don't think he's a gamer so he must not be".


Dude knows what he is talking about there

and from his channel watch the other videos from the main one that went viral

Ooh. Saving this for later.

But couldn't anyone tell from interviews or videos that the man clearly understands the situation? Everything is so well written and Im happy we have someone so well informed pushing for legislation. Companies had about 10 years to self regulate. But even then we have even more malicious ideas like monetizing matchmaking on the horizon.

We need some form of regulation just to curve tail this direction. It's been getting far too ridiculous and manipulative to keep this going.
 
Oct 25, 2017
10,741
#29
Combining the shadiness of the video game industry with the general repulsiveness of Washington seems like a match made in hell.
 
Oct 31, 2017
1,648
#30
Hyperbole is an exaggerated statement. The definition of exaggeration involves a modicum of truth inflated for effect. That element of truth is not involved here.

Calling Star Wars Battlefront 2 an online casino after any way to spend money on it had been deactivated is not hyperbole or exaggeration. It's simply a falsehood.
The casino will reopen if it hasn’t already. The only reason it didn’t happen was because they got called out on it.

Why are you focused on this “falsehood” when you seem to understand the main point of all this?
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,334
Milano - Italy
#31
"Officer, I wasn't murdering that guy. Look, I'm clearly not stabbing him this very instant. Yes, I was stabbing him in the past, and intend to stab him in the future, but I'm not currently stabbing him, am I? I rest my case!"
Fact is that neither we or Chris Lee have the slightest idea of which form Microtransactions will have when they come back to Battlefront II. Incidentally, the comparison between a transaction and stabbing is a massive fallacy.

You could say

"This game is a Star Wars-themed online casino designed to lure kids into spending money; it's a trap."
You could if there is any money involved.

There isn't.
 
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Audioboxer
Oct 25, 2017
10,716
#32
Ooh. Saving this for later.

But couldn't anyone tell from interviews or videos that the man clearly understands the situation? Everything is so well written and Im happy we have someone so well informed pushing for legislation. Companies had about 10 years to self regulate. But even then we have even more malicious ideas like monetizing matchmaking on the horizon.

We need some form of regulation just to curve tail this direction. It's been getting far too ridiculous and manipulative to keep this going.
Watch 15~25 seconds from here

 
Oct 27, 2017
7,861
Southern California
#33
The casino will reopen if it hasn’t already. The only reason it didn’t happen was because they got called out on it.

Why are you focused on this “falsehood” when you seem to understand the main point of all this?
It hasn't reopened and there's been absolutely no hint that they plan on bringing it back anytime soon.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,630
#34
Representatives bought with a price in any and everything it seems. Whoever has the most money to donate has the loudest voice/influence.
 
Oct 27, 2017
762
#35
This is why I found it funny every time someone on twitter or even some more well known YT'bers suggest the ESA should do something about lootboxes.

What ESA is to games publishers is bascially what the NRA is to gun makers.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,260
United States
#36
Hyperbole is an exaggerated statement. The definition of exaggeration involves a modicum of truth inflated for effect. That element of truth is not involved here.

Calling Star Wars Battlefront 2 an online casino after any way to spend money on it had been deactivated is not hyperbole or exaggeration. It's simply a falsehood.
If a building is built to be a casino and then, the casino part gets shutdown, it was still originally meant to be a casino, whether or not you can lose money there. Battlefront 2 was, obviously, made to leach people's money in that manner. Even if they've taken out the option, its clear that that was the foundation in which they built the game upon, even now. By now, dice could have completely restructured and rebalanced how that game works but, as is, it seems like they are just waiting for controversy to blow over so they can turn the pay2win shit back on. All theyd have to do is ungrey the pay option button.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,334
Milano - Italy
#38
The casino will reopen if it hasn’t already. The only reason it didn’t happen was because they got called out on it.
Again, we don't have the slightest idea about what form microtransactions will have in Battlefront II. Assuming that "the casino will reopen" is just an assumption. That statement made with that timing, in the present tense, is false. Plain and simple. Star Wars Battlefront II was not a casino then, it isn't now, and we don't know if it'll be in the future.

Why are you focused on this “falsehood” when you seem to understand the main point of all this?
Because I don't think lies should be tolerated, and any cause based on them is severely undermined, muddling the discourse by appealing to feeling instead of rational thinking.

Why are you ok with falsehood as long as it fits a narrative that furthers a cause you're ok with?
 
Oct 30, 2017
1,639
Canada
#44
Fact is that neither we or Chris Lee have the slightest idea of which form Microtransactions will have when they come back to Battlefront II. Incidentally, the comparison between a transaction and stabbing is a massive fallacy.
"Why yes, officer, I have this building with all the roulette wheels, chips, dealers, and other infrastructure required for gambling, and I was indeed allowing gambling in the past, but I am not currently allowing gambling! Yes, I currently still have all the infrastructure in place and have outright stated my intent to continue with it in the future and include gambling in all my other business ventures. Why do you ask?"
 
Oct 31, 2017
3,756
#45
The casino will reopen if it hasn’t already. The only reason it didn’t happen was because they got called out on it.

Why are you focused on this “falsehood” when you seem to understand the main point of all this?
What do you mean "reopen"? It never opened in the first place.

And no, what a game has during alpha or beta doesn't mean jack shit. Tons of video games have had random stuff during their alpha/beta periods.

The only thing that matters is what's actually in a game when it officially releases to retail.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,334
Milano - Italy
#49
You're being intentionally obtuse. They turned off the ability to spend money after the huge public uproar around launch, but they always stated that they fully intend to bring it back.
They always stated that they'll bring back some form of recurring revenue. They haven't in any shape or form detailed how, or given any indication whether it'll fit even the stretched definition of a casino.

The fact remains that when Mr. Lee made his statement in the present tense, Star Wars Battlefront II was not in any shape or form an Online Casino. His statement is false and remains false.

You can't claim that a false statement isn't false because it might become true in some unspecified future.

have outright stated my intent to continue with it in the future and include gambling in all my other business ventures. Why do you ask?"
Only, that is not what they said.
 
Oct 30, 2017
184
#50
It hasn't reopened and there's been absolutely no hint that they plan on bringing it back anytime soon.
From a few weeks ago: http://variety.com/2018/digital/news/ea-star-wars-battlefront-ii-microtransactions-1202682882/

"In the wake of the backlash, EA removed microtransactions from the game the day before it went on sale, although the company stated that they would be reinstated at a later date."
That's a statement of intent during their earnings call, doesn't get more official than that.
 
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