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Christian Era |OT| W.W.J.D
- Thread starter eKongDiddy
- Start date
Ah, okay. My church isn't much for tradition (if anything, they're not afraid to change things up) so I don't really pay all that much attention to tradition. I've always kind of assumed that God could ask us to forego tradition, when appropriate, in order to complete a certain task or make a certain decision.
I'd be interested in talking to someone that either has the opposite view or has actually experienced the opposite.
Happy for your new job. It's amazing how sometimes disappointments can be a setup for something better.
I am so glad that I go to a church where everyone sighs a relief that Jones won in Alabama.
Also: wife and I have been talking about it for YEARS, but we're going to buy about $100 of Subway gift cards and give them to random homeless people we see in the streets.
We plan to do this every month.
Also: wife and I have been talking about it for YEARS, but we're going to buy about $100 of Subway gift cards and give them to random homeless people we see in the streets.
We plan to do this every month.
As a Christian, it's been really hard to hold onto my faith now that I've accepted a same sex relationship and enjoyed it for 1.5 years. Not because I have trouble believing my relationship is acceptable (I believe it is. There are lots of things misunderstood about the "gay verses" in the Bible), but because other Christians harass me. I live in the South, where the brand of American evangelicalism believes it's absolutely intolerable for two people of the same sex to partner up, but they turn a blind eye to hypocrisies and blindly support Trump. Like 95% of Christians I knew and grew up with fall into that category, so my partner and I are isolated and unable to really participate in church gatherings or Christian fellowship because people will never accept us. I also don't really relate to the privileged white churches that flood my communities, where they spend millions on Christmas parties and concerts instead of helping out the poor and mistreated, oh for example, like LGBT youth.
Feeling blessed and highly favored.
A couple from our small group is trying to put together a gift card package for a recently immigrated Syrian family. Been trying to decide if I wanted to chip in 50 or 100.
Practical side says 50. Spiritual side says 100. I think I'll go with the latter.
Sorry I never got back to you on that. I had intended to look into it some for a better discussion, but have been busy. I do still plan to do so, and would like to see the discussion continue.
Well said, Auros. It seems to be very much a common failing in the Church today; we need to reach out and see lives transformed.
It's kind of crazy, but here's a thought: perhaps, even when we know exactly what we do, we still don't know the extent of what we do. We, in our limited wisdom, can't even fathom how absolutely terrible our actions are, and if we could, we would certainly be horrified of ourselves. Sometimes we know it's wrong, but we cannot fathom just how wrong it is.
As I understand, a "charismatic" church is related to the "Pentecostal" church in that there is -or should be- some manner of emphasis on or acknowledgement toward the movement of the Holy Spirit. This means that you can expect people to be "filled with the Spirit" or "baptized in the Spirit," and that they may show spiritual gifts, such as healing, prophecy, or speaking in tongues (1 Corinthians 12:7-11).
This is pretty much the answer. There are many different beliefs in the world, but Jesus made it very clear when he said "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really know me, you will know my Father as well" (John 14:6-7 NIV). You're only given one choice here if you believe His word.
I was going to ask if it was okay if I shared your prayer request, but you know what? That is great news! God works in amazing ways, doesn't He?
And it's late, but Merry Christmas, everyone!
There are some people who can't comprehend the damage they're doing, yes, but I believe that there are also individuals who are actively seeking to destroy people, if not the church itself while using the church as a cover.
Possessed by, and embracing evil.
I can't deny that idea, but perhaps they still do not understand the extent of their actions or their intent? Even the worst among us, I believe, can still be redeemed, no matter how far they've gone.
Even when one actively seeks evil, that does not mean they must be beyond hope, does it? Do we not all embrace some manner of sin at some point? It's all equally vile in God's eyes, even if we think to see a clear difference in how wrong different things may be.
I don't believe there is no sin beyond repentance.
But those folks ain't gonna repent.
Blasphemy against the Holy Ghost is not forgivable. And not forgiving your brother is also an unforgivable sin.
And suicide? But I believe there are always mitigating factors. And of course I have confidence in the perfect justice of God
You guys are being needlessly pedantic. Think about it. If you blaspheme the Holy Spirit, to whom are you going to repent? After all, only the Godhead has can forgive sins.
If you commit suicide, how are you going to repent if you're already dead?
If you died hating your brother, how are you going to repent of that?
C'mon, y'all throwing softballs.
If you commit suicide, how are you going to repent if you're already dead?
If you died hating your brother, how are you going to repent of that?
C'mon, y'all throwing softballs.
Merry Christmas and Happy New year everyone.
On the topic of blasphemy against the holy spirit.
"Assuredly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they may utter; but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation" — because they said, "He has an unclean spirit."
Mark 3:28-30 NKJV
I think we have to understand the context of the verses. These are scribes of the law. They are supposed to know the word in and out. It's like Jesus showing up to you, heals all kinds of diseases, cast out demons and yet you say he is the devil.
So yeah first verse pretty much states all men sins are forgiven as long as you believe in him.
On the topic of blasphemy against the holy spirit.
"Assuredly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they may utter; but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation" — because they said, "He has an unclean spirit."
Mark 3:28-30 NKJV
I think we have to understand the context of the verses. These are scribes of the law. They are supposed to know the word in and out. It's like Jesus showing up to you, heals all kinds of diseases, cast out demons and yet you say he is the devil.
So yeah first verse pretty much states all men sins are forgiven as long as you believe in him.
Topics like Nintendo being too innocent or the 5th grade teacher in Utah being fired for showing her students nude art bother me.
Like do people actually get mad, like, raised blood pressure and distressed at the idea that some folks thing the body is not for public display?
Like do people actually get mad, like, raised blood pressure and distressed at the idea that some folks thing the body is not for public display?
Maybe not, but that's likely what the early Church thought about at-the-time Saul.
It is an interesting subject, though, and I don't think it's necessarily too hard to find people who would argue either way. It would be an interesting passage to really dig into.
Anyway, here's something we can all keep in our prayers. Let's see God do amazing things in this new year.
A friend of mine was given like 4 months to live with terminal cancer. A year and a half later, she's still kicking somehow.
I'll pray for Talal starts believing something more substantial than existentialism.
I think it's a fine line to walk. There's always the idea that some sort of presentation of nudity or sex can add to a story or game if done in a tasteful and appropriate manner. However, on the flip side, this sort of thinking can lead to excess, in many cases (see any number of examples on TV where sex/nudity and even violence are used specifically to increase viewership).
Part of me thinks that people just get distressed at the idea of others telling them what they (or their kids) should or should not see. It's the content so much as the judgement/instruction being received from others.
If you really want to boil all this down to a simple idea, I think that modesty just isn't a value of our culture anymore.
This. How do you even begin having a discussion about modesty without being called a Puritan?
Also, I had one friend go on a tirade about how the concept of virginity is BS.
My church did a sermon series late last year on relationships, with one of the sermons specifically being on sex. One idea that came out that sermon was the fact that, while there are all of these different approaches or standards when it comes to sex, God clearly had a design that would allow you to experience sex to it's fullest. The senior pastor at my church stayed completely away from telling people they were wrong or making mistakes or throwing away their sexuality/virginity but he was upfront about saying they weren't receiving the goodness and fulfillment that God intended. I found it to be a fascinating approach.
That might be a method to approach the modesty and virginity conversations going forward, assuming the person is a follower of Christ. In a secular setting, though, I don't know that there's much value in trying to push modesty or virginity. What leg would you really have to stand on?
That approach sounds awfully ambiguous. Guess I would have to listen to the sermon, because the way you present it raises several questions for me.
In terms of the secular world, yeah the evidence is there. The kind of baggage that people carry in the things they do to mask their pain like more sex or drugs... it's destructive but you don't notice until you step outside of that worldliness and watch how those people function.
Yea - my lack of context probably doesn't help. He's typically very bold in his sermons and it's not that he was suggesting it was "okay" or "right" to live outside of God's design - he just spent more time focusing on what you are missing out on by sinning (even though he didn't use the word "sin"). I think I may not be explaining it right because it was not ambiguous, in my opinion. Actually, from what I understand, there was a staff member that stepped down after this sermon because it was a little too hard-line on certain aspects of sexuality and sexual orientation.
Anyways, my point was not to focus so much on his delivery but rather the overall idea of what we miss out on by not following God's design for sexual purity. We've all sinned and I"m sure many of us have repented and looked back and analyzed the choices we've made (while hopefully not being overwhelmed with guilt). However, it's been eye-opening for me to (a higher standard, if you will) to look back and consider what I've missed by not listening to God.
Auros01 now that works for me!
Today: my pastor gives a sermon on how millennials have it right with "self care." It is derived from the concept of Sabbath, or rest, which was designed for us.
I am a strong believer in staying home and doing nothing. That's what I call a off day. Not running errands or doing chores.
Today: my pastor gives a sermon on how millennials have it right with "self care." It is derived from the concept of Sabbath, or rest, which was designed for us.
I am a strong believer in staying home and doing nothing. That's what I call a off day. Not running errands or doing chores.
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Agreed on that Phoenix, though because my job is mentally demanding and not very physical, I always try to keep things simple but more physical. Resting to do our best work is biblical, no doubt.
We just started our study in Philippians this morning, mostly focusing on the background behind it. It was a solid reminder on the importance of being sensitive to the calling of the Spirit.
We just started our study in Philippians this morning, mostly focusing on the background behind it. It was a solid reminder on the importance of being sensitive to the calling of the Spirit.
How did your church go about determining that?
I ask because our church is considering making changes to better target millennials but I have a lot of curiosity on how they determine % of overall attendees that are millennials, especially if people aren't providing their information.
Data taken from the surveys mostly, but also, making a point to meet the ~12 new people who roll through and know them by name.
Because it's in Ann Arbor, there's a constant influx of younger individuals rolling through. Pastor made a joke that we might have to brainstorm how to get more 60+ congregants in, because that's the smallest demographic.
And yes, non-denom has been the way to go....
Hello there, it's nice to see Era-Christians in the forum. I also believe in God but I consider myself non denominational.
I also believe in the sufficiency of the scriptures as the authority of the Church.
God bless all of you guys and hope for great theological discussions.
I also believe in the sufficiency of the scriptures as the authority of the Church.
God bless all of you guys and hope for great theological discussions.
Grace and Peace bro/Did!
Right now, my theology is more social justice focused. " good religion is this: care for the orphans and widows."
Or, what does it look like to create space by people who have been hurt by the church?
The focus on millennials continues to fascinate me. My wife works for our church and they sent out a survey to all staff, had a in-person brainstorming session, and then a cabin getaway - all to discuss how to implement changes at the church to better appeal to millennials. I'm not sure what percentage of the ideas will be implemented, at this point.
I wasn't directly included in any of those efforts (other than maybe helping my wife answer the survey) but it did beg the question - what actually "makes" a millennial?
Phoenix RISING - in your discussions with the ~12 new people, did they give any reasons why they started attending your church? What appealed to them?
Starting April 1st, my church will have donuts in between every service for a year (already in the budget), because we are launching a second service, and this is to address concerns that the congregation will be "split." This will be an opportunity for people to linger and hang out.
This annoyed me when I went to another church. I saw it as a "hang out" rather than a place to worship the Lord. This is because the message from the pulpit offered no substance for me.
I look at this differently now, but I still need a church to tell people that Jesus isn't just a cool dude that you should get to know, but because he died for our sins so that we wouldn't have to.
To continue with what I said above, we don't actively "recruit" millennials. They just show up and stay. I think it is because the church's message is about belonging, even with baggage and imperfections. Our pastor is very good at using himself as an example of what it means to not be perfect, and he gives good, rather than vapid examples, too. For instance, he's at the Post Office and a woman insists on speaking with him just to be friendly, and he gives her the cold shoulder instead of being "pastorial." "Unto the least of these, you do unto me" Jesus teaches.
I think what makes our church attractive besides its diversity (pastor is black in a majority white congregation, and that attracts more minorities naturally), is that the messages are not about hellfire and brimstone, or the consequences of NOT having accepting Jesus as Lord. The church focuses on more of the positive messages of Christ as the focus with snippets of the negative, as opposed to starting with the negative, and getting snippets of the positive.
We teach that the church is a place of belonging, rather than you need to do X, Y, Z before you are accepted into the fold. At the same time, as the children of God, we are called to do great things in preparation of his Kingdom Come, and that begins with figuring out what it really means to "love thy neighbor as thy self."
And that is the focus of our church. There are other things, such as wrestling with the tension of say, for example, the idea that we would allow a sex offender to attend our church (church runs a daycare during the week, let alone childcare on Sundays), but what kind of Christians would we be if we didn't believe in the restorative power of the cross? Repentance?
So yeah, that might be attractive to young folks ages 18-24. Entertaining the idea that a person doesn't believe in God but they like hanging out with the people at church...that has happened, too.
I like your focus. Church (in general) loves the "heaven talk" before looking what's happening in the world. We need to be a referent in this life to people understand our integrity! However, remember to put first the scriptures before any social fight. Nowadays, there's a tremendous amount of social fights which aren't biblical at all.
People who have been hurt by the church? Hmmm... I would like more context before rise an argument. May you?
We have also started to see this phenomenon. We have weekend security at all of our services, which typically brings in law enforcement or ex-military as volunteers. They enjoy the work but may or may not believe or have a significant opinion on God. It's a cool dynamic but eventually the question becomes... how do you engage in a more intentional way? I'm really happy that they are comfortable serving in a church are getting to know people but that can't be the end-game.
The funny thing about that is I think it's because quite a few people don't actually believe the Bible is entirely true or consistent. They either selectively choose passages to follow or believe in or they believe part of it is outdated. I fundamentally believe that the Bible is 100% true and from God and, as such, there are no errors in it if you take it as a complete text and always consider the historical context. I do not think this is something that the Christian population, at large, does.
Sadly I tend to agree with you Auros. But most of that seems to be the result of a lack of study and willingness to actually test the word against itself. The Bible is incredibly consistent with itself when you consider the number of hands that touched it over the years, I find it incredibly difficult as a believer to see it as anything but a result of the hand of God. Just look at how inconsistent these cinematic and expanded universes are today with authors that can actually talk to each other for clarification before they publish their works.
But then again, I have a more skeptical mindset by default and a tendency to be either all in or all out. Not a fan of the whole lukewarm thing, but then again, neither is Jesus.
But then again, I have a more skeptical mindset by default and a tendency to be either all in or all out. Not a fan of the whole lukewarm thing, but then again, neither is Jesus.
They leave the context open-ended. They don't say for this or that demographic. As our church follows the "centered set" model, this is done intentionally.
Perhaps you couldn't be baptized because you didn't remember your confirmation verse in Lutheran or Catholic? Perhaps you didn't speak in tongues immediately after being baptized in a Pentecostal church? Perhaps you were baptized by drip in some other church, and you started going baptist and they shamed you for not doing the full dip.
IDK what that looks like from person to person. But that's not social justice though.
We're doing a single-mothers ministry now. Like, this is the first time I've gone to a church that acknowledges that single-parenthood is a reality. The specificity of it rather than just "singles ministry," which gives the impression that it is for young adults. Stuff like that I suppose.
I personally started going to this church post-2016 election. I could no longer stand the...pretentiousness of going to a church that functions in a color-blind fashion; I needed a church that explicitly recognizes that the Empire actively seeks to divide and conquer on the basis of race, and seeks to defeat its efforts through a unified Church.
Those conversations will come naturally. I think Evangelism makes a mistake in that if it doesn't "seal the deal" through conversion, that is a failure. That is false, I think. Relationship building doesn't happen overnight, so these things may take years. Those folks lips might say no, but their hearts and minds yearn for something the world can't offer, which is a spiritual experience.
Hell, *I* still yearn for that.
The Bible is indeed remarkably consistent. 2000 years! How can you not believe that it was divinely-inspired, meanwhile scholars are finding new stuff on epics like Beowulf or whatever that make them do double-takes on their origins?
Even reading the KJV against the ESV, it's like, wow, the only real difference is the removal of the King's English, but the meaning does not change. You really get to see how myopic the "written by man" argument is. In fact, I oftentimes read The Message for layman's terms. After all, Jesus spoke in parables that related to the people of his time. It is useful, then, to continue that exercise of making meanings reliable to a new generation.
I think this idea is key. It's reality that the current state of America and even the rest of the world is that there is a high amount of racism and prejudice towards many groups. To ignore this fact is akin to burying your head in the sand. I think the church occupies a unique position in not only being able to meet the needs of those groups but also to raise awareness and/or reduce the prejudice that such groups might see.
We had a conference early in 2017 at our church with the subject of "peace making". The idea was to bring together a variety of local leaders to speak on challenges they see - a Jewish Rabbi, a Muslim Imam, police officer, a black woman working on local government, a lobbyist for some sort of health/youth-related foundation, etc. I know for a fact that a variety of people within the church were offended (or even left) because certain people were allowed to speak at this conference. It was an eye-opening experience but one that I thought was important because it began to force people within our congregation to listen to other groups and hear about their struggles in modern society.
I think it's critical for the church to continue to lean into this tension and unite people of all backgrounds rather than allow the division to continue.