Chuck Schumer: We'll put $1.6 billion toward border security

WedgeX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,925
Unacceptable.

I don’t want Schumer to be another McConnell and further break the Senate. But refusing to fund the wall does not fall under that. Refusing would be a perfectly reasonable and just check on the President’s xenophobia.
 

OrdinaryPrime

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
11,042
it's really edifying to learn that the only issue some of you had with trump's wall rhetoric was the idea of an actual barrier rather than the racist nationalism dogwhistling it actually is
I have an issue with an actual barrier based on the money and maintenance costs. I have an issue with the rhetoric surrounding the caravan and immigrants in general from the Republican Party in general and Trump specifically. Stop misstating my opinions because you can't be assed to look into something before posting something extremely misleading. Glad the moderators added context to your first post.
 

HyGogg

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,495
If it's just towards a general "border security" then fine. Fuck Trump's racist monument aka his wall.
I'm not necessarily against putting some fences up and tightening security if it comes with more humane and enforceable immigration policy, but that's a negotiation that needs to made.

But if you said "We're willing to let qualified undocumented immigrants with clean records get a path to legal residency and eventual citizenship, and expand the guest worker program to allow for long term residency," in exchange for the wall, I'd take it. The wall is a dumb idea and a waste of money, but the rights of immigrants are the most important thing.
 

captmcblack

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,318
I don't like Schumer, but doesn't this clearly state that this is a tactic specifically to avoid the operation of the govt being held hostage by wall and border security demands?
 
OP
OP
aeolist

aeolist

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,191
User Banned (2 Weeks): Hostility, long history of similar infractions
I have an issue with an actual barrier based on the money and maintenance costs. I have an issue with the rhetoric surrounding the caravan and immigrants in general from the Republican Party in general and Trump specifically. Stop misstating my opinions because you can't be assed to look into something before posting something extremely misleading. Glad the moderators added context to your first post.
we can always count on the mod team to give fascists the benefit of the doubt when it comes to their euphemisms, for sure
 

OrdinaryPrime

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
11,042
Even still, the GOP will never compromise on issues like this. They gutted the ACA without flinching. There should be no compromise on Trump issues whatsoever.
I mean you're asking for a government shutdown then.

we can always count on the mod team to give fascists the benefit of the doubt when it comes to their euphemisms, for sure
I don't really understand the point of this post but no 'border security' and the 'wall' are not synonymous. There is a distinction to be made.
 

Socivol

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,410
. What is this shit exactly? I saw some tweets say he was talking about the wall specifically, but I don't know. I need more information but even working with the Republicans after what they did is just kind of gross to me.
 

rjinaz

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,855
I don't like Schumer, but doesn't this clearly state that this is a tactic specifically to avoid the operation of the govt being held hostage by wall and border security demands?
Republicans literally already did that a year ago, and it ended badly for them. Most of all though, it hurt DREAMers. I say if Trump wants to be responsible for another government shutdown, they can bring it. The public will blame the president. We need to get DACA worked out by any means.
 

Trey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,736
So what's the rub? No shutdown? Gotta get more than that, Chuck. If government shutdown, majority will blame Trump and the Republicans.
 

Xe4

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,495
Ehh. $1.6 billion ain't great, but it ain't awful, and will keep the government from shutting down (or if it does it'll be in the hands of the GOP and Trump).

I hope they can get DACA through a s a compromise. That's where I'll judge Schumer, not cause of some negotiated half way budget.
 

pigeon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,447
I don't like Schumer, but doesn't this clearly state that this is a tactic specifically to avoid the operation of the govt being held hostage by wall and border security demands?
On the other hand, we should allow the operation of the government to be held hostage rather than fund teargas and child jails
 

Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,681
the entire republican party has been engaged in a years-long propaganda project to launder trump's overt racism into more palatable generic terms, hence "the wall" becoming "border security".

go ahead and buy into that shit if you like. you know what it really means, and chuck schumer does too.
This is completely untrue. Trump has never played semantics with wall vs. border security and has always been explicitly clear about wanting a real physical towering wall along the southern border. What the fuck do you think he’s doing on those wall prototype vists, looking at cameras and drones?

You’re wrong, your OP was deliberately misleading, and rather admit your mistake you’re doubling down on this bullshit about how “the wall” and “border security” have always meant the same thing all along (when it hasn’t) and that those who suggest otherwise are in fact the real racists.
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,745
Ehh. $1.6 billion ain't great, but it ain't awful, and will keep the government from shutting down (or if it does it'll be in the hands of the GOP and Trump).

I hope they can get DACA through a s a compromise. That's where I'll judge Schumer, not cause of some negotiated half way budget.
Getting DACA past Ryan has been the biggest issue thus far.
 

Xe4

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,495
Republicans literally already did that a year ago, and it ended badly for them. Most of all though, it hurt DREAMers. I say if Trump wants to be responsible for another government shutdown, they can bring it. The public will blame the president. We need to get DACA worked out by any means.
People blamed Trump cause he fucked the deal (which he probably will now). If democrats shut down the government by flatly saying no, you can bet your ass they'll be blamed.
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,745
People blamed Trump cause he fucked the deal (which he probably will now). If democrats shut down the government by flatly saying no, you can bet your ass they'll be blamed.
Polling was bad for Dems first time the shutdown was attempted and it led to it being aborted near immediately.
 

cameron

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
10,969
Context -> NYT: Battle Over Wall Risks Shutdown as Lawmakers Scramble to Fund Government

Aides familiar with the negotiation process said lawmakers might group the seven spending bills into one package, effectively tying the wall provision to other government efforts more popular with Democrats. Democrats insist that while they are willing to fund some measures to increase border security, billions of dollars for a concrete border wall is a nonstarter.

“The Democrats and Republicans came to the $1.6 billion agreement,” Senator Chuck Schumer of New York, the newly re-elected Democratic minority leader, told reporters on Wednesday. “It is tough security. It is sensors. It is drones. It is roads. It is help at the border in a far more effective way than the wall.”

“We believe Democrats and Republicans should stick with their agreement and not let President Trump interfere,” he added. “Every time he interferes, it gets bollixed up.”

The House has allocated $5 billion for border security and wall funding. The Senate has not gone along. With new lawmakers descending on Washington and wrangling intensifying ahead of Democratic leadership elections, multiple aides said it was unlikely a compromise could emerge before the Thanksgiving break.

The Senate spending bill needs 60 votes.
 
OP
OP
aeolist

aeolist

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,191
This is completely untrue. Trump has never played semantics with wall vs. border security and has always been explicitly clear about wanting a real physical towering wall along the southern border. What the fuck do you think he’s doing on those wall prototype vists, looking at cameras and drones?

You’re wrong, your OP was deliberately misleading, and rather admit your mistake you’re doubling down on this bullshit about how “the wall” and “border security” have always meant the same thing all along (when it hasn’t) and that those who suggest otherwise are in fact the real racists.
i'm not saying you're racist for suggesting "border security" and "the wall" aren't synonymous, i'm suggesting that you're carrying rhetorical water for racists

there's a distinction
 

peyrin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,279
California
Also yes Schumer sucks but just to put the title in context, the previous omnibus spending bill from earlier this year also allocated $1.6bn for wall nonsense, out of a total $1.3tn (source).
 

pigeon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,447
i'm not saying you're racist for suggesting "border security" and "the wall" aren't synonymous, i'm suggesting that you're carrying rhetorical water for racists

there's a distinction
Hot take, border security is actually worse than the wall

The wall isn’t kidnapping and tear gassing children, whereas that’s what the money earmarked for border security will explicitly be spent on
 

CannonballB

Member
Oct 27, 2017
364
Pahonix
People blamed Trump cause he fucked the deal (which he probably will now). If democrats shut down the government by flatly saying no, you can bet your ass they'll be blamed.
And this is what people fail to understand. "JUST LET THE GOVERNMENT SHUT DOWN!" you know what, no. No we should probably avoid that since most of the country relies on the government in some fashion. I hate the "both sides" shit, but that's literally what it will take to get anywhere. Period.
 

MonoStable

Member
Oct 27, 2017
868
How about you offer zero and maybe 1.6 billion if they include language to protect Mueller? Like at least get us something in return don't start negotiating at 1.6 billion
 

Gobias-Ind

Member
Nov 22, 2017
2,907
Not sure why people are getting off on the distinction between "border security funding" and "border wall funding", other than they saw a user name that they don't like and got a sudden urge to tear gas some refugees.

Senate Minority Leader Charles Schumer (N.Y.) on Tuesday said Democrats don't want to include more than $1.6 billion on border security in a year-end spending deal, putting them at odds with Republicans who are floating a plan to spend $5 billion to fund President Trump's border wall over two years.
https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/418507-schumer-dems-oppose-spending-more-than-16b-on-border-security
 

junomars

Banned
Nov 19, 2018
723
Context -> NYT: Battle Over Wall Risks Shutdown as Lawmakers Scramble to Fund Government

Aides familiar with the negotiation process said lawmakers might group the seven spending bills into one package, effectively tying the wall provision to other government efforts more popular with Democrats. Democrats insist that while they are willing to fund some measures to increase border security, billions of dollars for a concrete border wall is a nonstarter.

“The Democrats and Republicans came to the $1.6 billion agreement,” Senator Chuck Schumer of New York, the newly re-elected Democratic minority leader, told reporters on Wednesday. “It is tough security. It is sensors. It is drones. It is roads. It is help at the border in a far more effective way than the wall.”

“We believe Democrats and Republicans should stick with their agreement and not let President Trump interfere,” he added. “Every time he interferes, it gets bollixed up.”

The House has allocated $5 billion for border security and wall funding. The Senate has not gone along. With new lawmakers descending on Washington and wrangling intensifying ahead of Democratic leadership elections, multiple aides said it was unlikely a compromise could emerge before the Thanksgiving break.

The Senate spending bill needs 60 votes.
This should be in the OP. This is what people should want Schumer's position to be.
 

rjinaz

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,855
Because Dem messaging on it was totally fucked.

Who’s in charge of Dem messaging in the Senate again? Thinking emoji
And as I recall, the polling was all bonked up anyway. They'd ask "If DACA worth shutting down the government over?" Of course the majority is going to say no. Who wants the government shutdown? But when people were asked if Repubicans and Trump should negotiate on DACA or who would be blamed for a shutdown, people said "yes" and "the president".
 

CannonballB

Member
Oct 27, 2017
364
Pahonix
yup, that’s the real problem here, not our brutal and inhumane immigration policy
You can pretty much expect that to not change anytime soon. Like it or not, people in this country are xenophobic and they don't want "others" coming here. That's the majority. Sure we can get a dem in there who thinks differently. Guess what happens when they try to push through their "different" agenda... They get voted out.

Face it people, this country is fucked up. It's repairable but it's going to take several generations.
 

pigeon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,447
You can pretty much expect that to not change anytime soon. Like it or not, people in this country are xenophobic and they don't want "others" coming here. That's the majority. Sure we can get a dem in there who thinks differently. Guess what happens when they try to push through their "different" agenda... They get voted out.

Face it people, this country is fucked up. It's repairable but it's going to take several generations.
Step one on repairing it would probably not be going "welp I guess we're all racists now" but actually taking a moral stand against our inhumane immigration policy.